Palm Smacked Down In USB Dispute With Apple

Posted by: Arik Hesseldahl on September 22, 2009

Remember if you will the back-and-forth between Apple and Palm concerning the Palm Pre and its ability to work with Apple’s iTunes.

When first released earlier this year, the Palm Pre worked with iTunes, much to Apple’s annoyance. Naturally it wasn’t long before Apple issued a software patch for iTunes that locked out the Pre. Not long after that, Palm issued a patch of its own for the Pre that got it working with iTunes again, which Apple soon disabled…you get the idea.

Later on, Palm upped the ante a bit, by complaining to the USB Implementers Forum, the governing body behind all things related to USB technology. Engadget had a nice summary at the time.

Well now the USB-IF has ruled, and according to a letter to I’ve seen today, this tactic hasn’t worked out so well for Palm.

Palm’s complaint, outlined in a July 22 letter, had been that Apple had been improperly using vendor ID numbers. Apparently every company that uses USB technology is issued a vendor ID number. Palm had alleged that it was improper for Apple to issue an iTunes update that prevented the transfer of content to a device not using Apple’s ID number: “When a USB device recognized by the host computer attempts to connect with iTunes, iTunes now checks the Vendor ID number …if the Vendor ID number is anything other than Apple’s Vendor ID number, iTunes will limit access,” Palm’s letter, says.

Writing for the USB-IF, Traci Donnell, the organization’s executive director, wrote that “Palm’s allegation (if true) does not establish that Apple is using its Vendor ID contrary to USB-IF’s policies.” In short, Apple, by limiting access to iTunes to Apple-made devices only, isn’t doing anything wrong, at least not according to USB-IF policies.

However, Palm’s July 22 complaint letter also contained this: “Palm will shortly issue an update of its WebOS operating system that uses Apple’s Vendor ID number for the sole purpose of restoring Palm media sync functionality.” Here Palm is saying it plans to issue software to the Pre that allows it to masquerade as an Apple iPod when talking to iTunes.

Whoops. That’s a no-no, Donnell writes. Under USB-IF’s policy, “Palm may only use the single Vendor ID issued to Palm for Palm’s usage….Usage of another company’s Vendor ID is specifically precluded.” She then gives Palm seven days to “clarify its intent.”

I’ve called Palm for a comment and haven’t yet heard back, but will update this post when I do.

Update: I received an emailed statement from Palm spokeswoman Lynn Fox last night after I had gone home for the night. It reads: “We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own. We are reviewing the letter from the USB-IF and will respond as appropriate.”

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Reader Comments

Rick James

September 22, 2009 09:12 PM

Palm is obviously run by a bunch of losers ...

mfwesq

September 22, 2009 09:38 PM

Yet another reason never to use anything Apple.

Google User

September 22, 2009 10:22 PM

Apple shouldn't try to imitate Microsoft and Intel's childish behaviors. Does the DOJ or FTC have to get involved in the pissing match? Take the high road Apple and let others play in the sandbox. Or else users will decide that Microsoft/Intel computers are better for them.

mark

September 22, 2009 10:31 PM

The fact that Palm took this spat so publicly to the USB-IF (and so completely lost) is evidence of how clueless they are about what their behavior looks like from the outside. They (Rubinstein, Anderson) are so blinded by their hatred for Apple/Jobs.

P DITTY

September 22, 2009 10:32 PM

Ya suck it Palm. Maybe try to make your own technology and try not to steal others. Oh ya. How's the Pre doing? Ouch. 161 million in debt and counting. I feel bad...haha

Tyler

September 22, 2009 10:41 PM

What are you guys smoking?? Did you read this article?

It is VERY clear that Apple has done very little besides ensure that their software works with their hardware.

Palm, on the other hand, is the one that has been provoking this by imitating an iPhone against the USB-IF's rules...then they go complaining to the USB-IF about it...and look what they get!

Good job, Palm. Now you play like everyone else by writing your own software...after you wasted money and time trying to get a free ride off of Apple.

James Katt

September 22, 2009 10:54 PM

By masquerading a Palm Pre as an iPod by using Apple's Vendor ID, Palm is obviously breaking the USB-IF's rules.

Palm is also exposing Apple's WEAK and LAX security measures.

Apple should not allow malicious intrusions into its system by making it so easy to lie about the intruder's identity. This would make it easy to steal data or plant a virus onto Apple's systems. It would certainly weaken Microsoft Windows' security, when iTunes and Quicktime are installed.

Apple should be stricter on how what it allows to be connected into its system.

Apple should, for example, at least check for the presence of firmware, do a checksum to verify it is Apple copyrighted firmware, on the iPods and iPhones that connect to iTunes, to verify their identity.

Better yet, it should put in even tougher security measures - such as hardware ID or serial number and hardware encryption measures that would be difficult to break.

Come on, Apple. Do it.

:-D

Matt

September 22, 2009 11:26 PM

While I agree with the USB-IF's ruling, and think that Apple is fully within its right to block connections with the Pre, this strikes me as a pretty customer-unfriendly thing to do.

Palm might want to look into software workarounds for this. Injecting a dll into iTunes or install a windows driver that lies about the Pre's vendor id, wouldn't be difficult, for example. Though then Apple would probably make the update detect the dll/driver, and try and break it, and then Palm would have to try to hide their software...

Peter

September 22, 2009 11:56 PM

i think palm she not be lazy and make their own app. who knows. it might be the next itunes. they shouldn't be so childish to steal a ID number and use it to make their life easier

Old Man Dotes

September 23, 2009 12:06 AM

Yes, let's see Apple implement even tougher "security" measures. Don't let third parties sell apps in the App Store, don't allow Macs to run virtual machines or boot into anything except OS X, prevent iPhone users from calling outside the AT&T network...

Frankly, all this propietary tie-in crap is the main reason I won't own an iPhone or iPod. Since there are at least three non-Apple media library/sync programs that work with the Pre (and every other USB-capable media player on the planet, including the iPhone/iPod), I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to it, but hey, if you like paying someone to control what you do with your own property, enjoy your life as a willing slave.

Scott

September 23, 2009 12:11 AM

Matt, dll's and windows drivers would be useless on OS X. They need a cross platform approach to lie to iTunes about what their device is.

Honestly, Palm was wrong here. They misused Apple's vendor ID, and they should not be. Apple is not only right to block that behavior, they should block that behavior in order to make sure they themselves are compliant to the USB-IF regulations.

Sean

September 23, 2009 12:14 AM

iTunes is garbage anyway. One of the (many) advantages of a Pre over an iPhone is not being forced to use that horrid app!! Palm, let it go. You're doing customers a favor by forcing the few who don't know any better to move to a different music app. :)

KenC

September 23, 2009 12:18 AM

Using a hack, as Palm is attempting to do, is not something a reputable company, nor a company that expects to be long for this world should be doing.

This is something I expect Rob Glaser of Real Networks to do, but not Palm.

Dakolta

September 23, 2009 12:20 AM

Palm can make there own app that can pull the play lists from the open xml formated files that apple uses. In thos files is every thing palm needs to sync your library to the pre. They are just being lazy about writing software and having to support it.

Synthmeister

September 23, 2009 12:24 AM

The fact that Palm is allowing Apple to have any kind of say over such a critical part of the Pre's user experience is an amazing strategic blunder. (Especially after their ex-CEO dissed the iPhone BIGTIME! "They aren't gonna just walk in here..." and Palm was completely lame in creating Mac sync software for Palm Pilots for years!)

Can you imagine Apple creating the iPod, then depending on Microsoft for the syncing software without actually getting permission from Microsoft? It's just ludicrous.

Palm is being pretty consumer unfriendly by not getting its own syncing software out the door which could easily suck all non-DRM music out of iTunes into Palm's solution. Should have done that instead of wasting money on BeOS and Folio.

FairObserver

September 23, 2009 01:22 AM

All the rats, monkeys and animals want to suck the life out of the Apple tree. Palm wants to eat the fruit, Microsoft wants to build a new home from the Apple trees branches, Pystar is burrowing at the roots... Cant any of these companies build something on their own? Have they no confidence that they can come up with their own idea of something that will influence the world, rather than pure imitation? Disgusting!!

Pete

September 23, 2009 03:00 AM

Funny how people who want to use iTunes with their Pre threaten not to buy an iPhone, or an iPod!

Since they are not Apple customers anyway, what does Apple care if they threaten to buy competitors products which they already have?

Where were these people in 1997-2001 when Apple was desperate for phone makers to provide software to sync their devices with Macs? You couldn't get a Palm product to work with Macs half as well as they did with Windows PCs. Now they want in?

fielder

September 23, 2009 07:10 AM

Some of you people have no idea what you're talking about.

@ Old Man Dotes

Mac can boot into windows/unix/mac osx, at the same time using apples free program called bootcamp. And a mac runs windows faster then a same spec PC can!

3rd party apps on the iphone, there are over 50,000 3rd party apps being sold. Do you even understand what 3rd party means? All smart phone app stores work in the same way. And most major smartphone (like the Pre) have network ties.

@ Google User
Do you understand that any OS can and does use any processor manufacture. There is no relationship between windows and intel, or AMD. The only reason apple use only IBM for so many years is because they were faster.

@ Palm
Write your own software and stop hacking into others. The iTunes library is simple XML, any program can access itunes music so grow up can make you own sync app!

Roger Mercer

September 23, 2009 08:20 AM

Yes, Matt. It is customer unfriendly for Apple not to give away software it spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing.

It is also customer unfriendly for Wal-Mart not to give away its inventory and storage system, so other big store can compete with it more easily and lower their prices, too.

Matter of fact, as a customer, I would feel far more friendly toward Best Buy if it would give me a nice new wide-screen TV. I need one.

Roger Mercer

September 23, 2009 08:25 AM

Yes, Matt. It is customer unfriendly for Apple not to give away software it spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing.

It is also customer unfriendly for Wal-Mart not to give away its inventory and storage system, so other big stores can compete with it more easily and lower their prices, too.

Matter of fact, as a customer, I would feel far more friendly toward Best Buy if it would give me a nice new wide-screen TV. I need one.

Robert Winslow

September 23, 2009 08:53 AM

I wish Apple would open the software to more hardware, I think that it is a lost revenue stream for Apple.

With that said, I do think that Apple has the right to protect what they consider propritary software and support for said software.

Palm needs to pony up and develop its own sync ability.

Getting upset with Apple for what Palm has been doing in my opinion is wrong. The blame belongs to Palm.

Disgusted

September 23, 2009 10:23 AM

The Justice Dept should launch antitrust cases against Microsoft and Apple.

Porsupah

September 23, 2009 10:46 AM

I'm surely missing something here. If a vendor chooses to develop a phone, they'll also want some means of hooking it up to owners' systems. In Apple's case, that's where iTunes comes in. What prevents Palm from developing a similar application, fully aware of all their products' features?

kirkrr

September 23, 2009 11:25 AM

The success of the iPod and the iPhone are not in the device itself, but in the entire infrastructure created to provide the complete user experience - an infrastructure of desktop application, back end server environments, extensive management software, and a user device - hundreds of millions of dollars of hard work and time.

Then Palm wants to step in and use all this extensive intellectual and physical property for their own gain?

If Palm wants to compete, then compete - create a parallel infrastructure; don't steal the inventions and hard work of others. Apple has the option to license access to iTunes.

kevin

September 23, 2009 11:42 AM

Matt, what difference does it make if Apple is unfriendly to PALM'S customers?

I would say that Palm is not customer friendly because they are selling a device promising that it can connect to iTunes, even though they obviously shouldn't make that claim because they can't back it up.

Also, it is obvious that many people don't understand antitrust law. It is not illegal to decide who can connect to a proprietary system. Apple does not force or coerce anyone to buy their hardware or software. If you don't like Apple, don't buy their products.

DanTe

September 23, 2009 12:03 PM

This is news?!? Apple always had a monopolistic proprietary structure. They're just better at PR than Microsoft, that's all.

KeithY

September 23, 2009 12:48 PM

"Ya suck it Palm. Maybe try to make your own technology and try not to steal others."

You mean how Apple stole their GUI from Xerox?

Neshia

September 23, 2009 01:04 PM

What's the point?

Neshia

September 23, 2009 01:04 PM

What's the point?

Dan Flood

September 23, 2009 01:34 PM

Yet another reason to only by things from Apple :)

Dan Flood

September 23, 2009 01:34 PM

Yet another reason to only by things from Apple :)

Lucas

September 23, 2009 01:35 PM

two points
1. Apple is not breaking any laws by only letting their hardware use the syncing interface within itunes. Just like Microsoft is not breaking any laws by only letting their hardware sync with Zune software.

2.Palm talks as if Apple is restricting use of songs and such to only the ipod. not so. first off the DRM on videos is by demand of the studios. second, I can totally plug my Palm into my macbook and drag and drop any music I want to the music folder on it (cause it is all DRMfree thanks to Apple giving me a cheap rate deal on upgrading my stuff). the Palm is recognized on the desktop which is what the standard is all about. AND Apple actually keeps the library in an XML file (which they likely dont have to legally) to make it easy for everyone to write their own interface.

I can't wait to see Palm try to get any IDs for future devices, especially when USB3 comes out. the forum is going to be soooooo helping them out on that one. not

Cider

September 23, 2009 02:13 PM

Good! I'll be getting a Palm device then. If it keeps Apple's taint licking iTunes off my phone then it's a winner to me. Apple can continue sucking without my contributing to its coffers.

AC

September 23, 2009 06:30 PM

So, why doesn't Palm just add the ability to spoof USB vendor ID numbers?

Anon E Mouse

September 23, 2009 06:59 PM

The basic problem is that iTUnes is wrong and Appleshould never have agreed to the deal that lets them sell music online.

They don't make money from iTunes. iTunes reason for existing is to get you to buy overpriced Apple hardware, which they do make money from. Because iof this initial mistake APple is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.

Apple has opened a store that only iPod/iPhone users are allowed to enter. They are using their iHardware monopoly to create another monopoloy on online music sales. Maybe its not a perfect monopoly (of the online music)but its the effort that is illegal not the success of the effort.

The rest of it falls by the wayside if the basic probelm is eliminated.

Calmplexed

September 23, 2009 08:23 PM

Yet another reason to avoid all things Apple.

Dan

September 23, 2009 09:33 PM

Whether or not Palm is "right" or Apple is "wrong," the biggest issue to me - as a potential buyer - is this:

Palm, apparently, is so non-confident in its own engineering abilities that it to create a device that literally pretends to be the competition in order to work.

From a consumer and marketing standpoint, what better sales point could there be? I can imagine the ad. Show a Pre appearing in the iPhones device list. Then an iPhone. "One of these devices is a real iPhone. The other - well, it apparently can only work by pretending to be the real thing. Which would you buy?"

iHTC

September 23, 2009 11:51 PM

[Because iof this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

And to further examine your 'opinion' — is MS protecting an illegal and immoral tie-in to XBox hardware, with the blocking out of running Wii or PS3 games, or with the running of alternative OSes, such as Linux?.

iHTC

September 23, 2009 11:53 PM

[Because iof (sic) this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

iHTC

September 24, 2009 12:52 AM

[Because iof (sic) this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

Yonny

September 24, 2009 01:53 AM

As far as I know itunes is made to work with apple products. Why doesn't palm just create a program that works as good as itunes and some how use the same library itunes uses.

newmanilenewman@gmail.com

September 24, 2009 03:49 PM

maybe palm realizes that many people already have all of their music organized with itunes already and feel that as the owner of said music they should be able to put it on whatever device they want .. plam is not lazy ... palm has made it as simple as pluging in the device and dragging music files to a music folder on the device. Apple made the sync process so overcomplicated and people have been using it for so long they are stuck with it .. i cant stand macholes

Harkus

September 24, 2009 07:31 PM

Let's see if we can suss this out.

Palm can't pretend to have a "Universal Serial (iTunes Only) Bus"?

Is that what USB-IF is saying?

yet another steve

September 24, 2009 09:24 PM

More and more I believe the purpose of all this is so that Palm can have a public fight with Apple.

RIM sells a lot more devices than Palm, and manages to sync them with iTunes content without any such drama.

And Pam, being full of ex-Apple people knew EXACTLY how Apple would respond. Cat and mouse and lots of press and fanboy flame wars was clearly their INTENTION.

Robert Lowe

September 24, 2009 10:06 PM

I think that if palm was smart they would just build on the amazon relationship, vs trying to fight with apple. Amazon has Music, Video, and Audiobooks. why not just build a store off what they have than trying to use another store

Tin Foil Hatman

September 26, 2009 10:33 AM

Palm was never intending to masquerade Apple's USB vendor number. They are not that blatantly stupid in their quest to get their device to work with iTunes.....they were publicly disclosing the method that some bright young software developer could release a palm app to handle the translation. They would be absolved from doing the deed themselves and once posted and circulation began on the web, no amount of Apple lawsuits could ever have it go away.

Apple needs to get over it, they're still making $$$ selling music through iTunes. Apple should just write a $5-10 iTunes interface app that Palm users can download and buy.
And to the smug Apple Fanboys out there...Wasn't the iPhone touted as being 100% compatible with Exchange and e-mail. Didn't exactly work as advertised when using your device to piggy back on someone else's software technology without getting their blessing did it?

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