Palm Smacked Down In USB Dispute With Apple

Palm is obviously run by a bunch of losers ...

Yet another reason never to use anything Apple.

Apple shouldn't try to imitate Microsoft and Intel's childish behaviors. Does the DOJ or FTC have to get involved in the pissing match? Take the high road Apple and let others play in the sandbox. Or else users will decide that Microsoft/Intel computers are better for them.

The fact that Palm took this spat so publicly to the USB-IF (and so completely lost) is evidence of how clueless they are about what their behavior looks like from the outside. They (Rubinstein, Anderson) are so blinded by their hatred for Apple/Jobs.

Ya suck it Palm. Maybe try to make your own technology and try not to steal others. Oh ya. How's the Pre doing? Ouch. 161 million in debt and counting. I feel bad...haha

What are you guys smoking?? Did you read this article?

It is VERY clear that Apple has done very little besides ensure that their software works with their hardware.

Palm, on the other hand, is the one that has been provoking this by imitating an iPhone against the USB-IF's rules...then they go complaining to the USB-IF about it...and look what they get!

Good job, Palm. Now you play like everyone else by writing your own software...after you wasted money and time trying to get a free ride off of Apple.

By masquerading a Palm Pre as an iPod by using Apple's Vendor ID, Palm is obviously breaking the USB-IF's rules.

Palm is also exposing Apple's WEAK and LAX security measures.

Apple should not allow malicious intrusions into its system by making it so easy to lie about the intruder's identity. This would make it easy to steal data or plant a virus onto Apple's systems. It would certainly weaken Microsoft Windows' security, when iTunes and Quicktime are installed.

Apple should be stricter on how what it allows to be connected into its system.

Apple should, for example, at least check for the presence of firmware, do a checksum to verify it is Apple copyrighted firmware, on the iPods and iPhones that connect to iTunes, to verify their identity.

Better yet, it should put in even tougher security measures - such as hardware ID or serial number and hardware encryption measures that would be difficult to break.

Come on, Apple. Do it.

:-D

While I agree with the USB-IF's ruling, and think that Apple is fully within its right to block connections with the Pre, this strikes me as a pretty customer-unfriendly thing to do.

Palm might want to look into software workarounds for this. Injecting a dll into iTunes or install a windows driver that lies about the Pre's vendor id, wouldn't be difficult, for example. Though then Apple would probably make the update detect the dll/driver, and try and break it, and then Palm would have to try to hide their software...

i think palm she not be lazy and make their own app. who knows. it might be the next itunes. they shouldn't be so childish to steal a ID number and use it to make their life easier

Yes, let's see Apple implement even tougher "security" measures. Don't let third parties sell apps in the App Store, don't allow Macs to run virtual machines or boot into anything except OS X, prevent iPhone users from calling outside the AT&T network...

Frankly, all this propietary tie-in crap is the main reason I won't own an iPhone or iPod. Since there are at least three non-Apple media library/sync programs that work with the Pre (and every other USB-capable media player on the planet, including the iPhone/iPod), I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to it, but hey, if you like paying someone to control what you do with your own property, enjoy your life as a willing slave.

Matt, dll's and windows drivers would be useless on OS X. They need a cross platform approach to lie to iTunes about what their device is.

Honestly, Palm was wrong here. They misused Apple's vendor ID, and they should not be. Apple is not only right to block that behavior, they should block that behavior in order to make sure they themselves are compliant to the USB-IF regulations.

iTunes is garbage anyway. One of the (many) advantages of a Pre over an iPhone is not being forced to use that horrid app!! Palm, let it go. You're doing customers a favor by forcing the few who don't know any better to move to a different music app. :)

Using a hack, as Palm is attempting to do, is not something a reputable company, nor a company that expects to be long for this world should be doing.

This is something I expect Rob Glaser of Real Networks to do, but not Palm.

Palm can make there own app that can pull the play lists from the open xml formated files that apple uses. In thos files is every thing palm needs to sync your library to the pre. They are just being lazy about writing software and having to support it.

The fact that Palm is allowing Apple to have any kind of say over such a critical part of the Pre's user experience is an amazing strategic blunder. (Especially after their ex-CEO dissed the iPhone BIGTIME! "They aren't gonna just walk in here..." and Palm was completely lame in creating Mac sync software for Palm Pilots for years!)

Can you imagine Apple creating the iPod, then depending on Microsoft for the syncing software without actually getting permission from Microsoft? It's just ludicrous.

Palm is being pretty consumer unfriendly by not getting its own syncing software out the door which could easily suck all non-DRM music out of iTunes into Palm's solution. Should have done that instead of wasting money on BeOS and Folio.

All the rats, monkeys and animals want to suck the life out of the Apple tree. Palm wants to eat the fruit, Microsoft wants to build a new home from the Apple trees branches, Pystar is burrowing at the roots... Cant any of these companies build something on their own? Have they no confidence that they can come up with their own idea of something that will influence the world, rather than pure imitation? Disgusting!!

Funny how people who want to use iTunes with their Pre threaten not to buy an iPhone, or an iPod!

Since they are not Apple customers anyway, what does Apple care if they threaten to buy competitors products which they already have?

Where were these people in 1997-2001 when Apple was desperate for phone makers to provide software to sync their devices with Macs? You couldn't get a Palm product to work with Macs half as well as they did with Windows PCs. Now they want in?

Some of you people have no idea what you're talking about.

@ Old Man Dotes

Mac can boot into windows/unix/mac osx, at the same time using apples free program called bootcamp. And a mac runs windows faster then a same spec PC can!

3rd party apps on the iphone, there are over 50,000 3rd party apps being sold. Do you even understand what 3rd party means? All smart phone app stores work in the same way. And most major smartphone (like the Pre) have network ties.

@ Google User
Do you understand that any OS can and does use any processor manufacture. There is no relationship between windows and intel, or AMD. The only reason apple use only IBM for so many years is because they were faster.

@ Palm
Write your own software and stop hacking into others. The iTunes library is simple XML, any program can access itunes music so grow up can make you own sync app!

Yes, Matt. It is customer unfriendly for Apple not to give away software it spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing.

It is also customer unfriendly for Wal-Mart not to give away its inventory and storage system, so other big store can compete with it more easily and lower their prices, too.

Matter of fact, as a customer, I would feel far more friendly toward Best Buy if it would give me a nice new wide-screen TV. I need one.

Yes, Matt. It is customer unfriendly for Apple not to give away software it spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing.

It is also customer unfriendly for Wal-Mart not to give away its inventory and storage system, so other big stores can compete with it more easily and lower their prices, too.

Matter of fact, as a customer, I would feel far more friendly toward Best Buy if it would give me a nice new wide-screen TV. I need one.

I wish Apple would open the software to more hardware, I think that it is a lost revenue stream for Apple.

With that said, I do think that Apple has the right to protect what they consider propritary software and support for said software.

Palm needs to pony up and develop its own sync ability.

Getting upset with Apple for what Palm has been doing in my opinion is wrong. The blame belongs to Palm.

The Justice Dept should launch antitrust cases against Microsoft and Apple.

I'm surely missing something here. If a vendor chooses to develop a phone, they'll also want some means of hooking it up to owners' systems. In Apple's case, that's where iTunes comes in. What prevents Palm from developing a similar application, fully aware of all their products' features?

The success of the iPod and the iPhone are not in the device itself, but in the entire infrastructure created to provide the complete user experience - an infrastructure of desktop application, back end server environments, extensive management software, and a user device - hundreds of millions of dollars of hard work and time.

Then Palm wants to step in and use all this extensive intellectual and physical property for their own gain?

If Palm wants to compete, then compete - create a parallel infrastructure; don't steal the inventions and hard work of others. Apple has the option to license access to iTunes.

Matt, what difference does it make if Apple is unfriendly to PALM'S customers?

I would say that Palm is not customer friendly because they are selling a device promising that it can connect to iTunes, even though they obviously shouldn't make that claim because they can't back it up.

Also, it is obvious that many people don't understand antitrust law. It is not illegal to decide who can connect to a proprietary system. Apple does not force or coerce anyone to buy their hardware or software. If you don't like Apple, don't buy their products.

This is news?!? Apple always had a monopolistic proprietary structure. They're just better at PR than Microsoft, that's all.

"Ya suck it Palm. Maybe try to make your own technology and try not to steal others."

You mean how Apple stole their GUI from Xerox?

What's the point?

What's the point?

Yet another reason to only by things from Apple :)

Yet another reason to only by things from Apple :)

two points
1. Apple is not breaking any laws by only letting their hardware use the syncing interface within itunes. Just like Microsoft is not breaking any laws by only letting their hardware sync with Zune software.

2.Palm talks as if Apple is restricting use of songs and such to only the ipod. not so. first off the DRM on videos is by demand of the studios. second, I can totally plug my Palm into my macbook and drag and drop any music I want to the music folder on it (cause it is all DRMfree thanks to Apple giving me a cheap rate deal on upgrading my stuff). the Palm is recognized on the desktop which is what the standard is all about. AND Apple actually keeps the library in an XML file (which they likely dont have to legally) to make it easy for everyone to write their own interface.

I can't wait to see Palm try to get any IDs for future devices, especially when USB3 comes out. the forum is going to be soooooo helping them out on that one. not

Good! I'll be getting a Palm device then. If it keeps Apple's taint licking iTunes off my phone then it's a winner to me. Apple can continue sucking without my contributing to its coffers.

So, why doesn't Palm just add the ability to spoof USB vendor ID numbers?

The basic problem is that iTUnes is wrong and Appleshould never have agreed to the deal that lets them sell music online.

They don't make money from iTunes. iTunes reason for existing is to get you to buy overpriced Apple hardware, which they do make money from. Because iof this initial mistake APple is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.

Apple has opened a store that only iPod/iPhone users are allowed to enter. They are using their iHardware monopoly to create another monopoloy on online music sales. Maybe its not a perfect monopoly (of the online music)but its the effort that is illegal not the success of the effort.

The rest of it falls by the wayside if the basic probelm is eliminated.

Yet another reason to avoid all things Apple.

Whether or not Palm is "right" or Apple is "wrong," the biggest issue to me - as a potential buyer - is this:

Palm, apparently, is so non-confident in its own engineering abilities that it to create a device that literally pretends to be the competition in order to work.

From a consumer and marketing standpoint, what better sales point could there be? I can imagine the ad. Show a Pre appearing in the iPhones device list. Then an iPhone. "One of these devices is a real iPhone. The other - well, it apparently can only work by pretending to be the real thing. Which would you buy?"

[Because iof this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

And to further examine your 'opinion' — is MS protecting an illegal and immoral tie-in to XBox hardware, with the blocking out of running Wii or PS3 games, or with the running of alternative OSes, such as Linux?.

[Because iof (sic) this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

And to further examine your 'opinion' — is MS protecting an illegal and immoral tie-in to XBox hardware, with the blocking out of running Wii or PS3 games, or with the running of alternative OSes, such as Linux?.

[Because iof (sic) this initial mistake APple (sic) is now forced to protect that illegal and immoral tie in to Apple hardware.]

Explain either. I'd be happy to entertain any actual arguement. But, I'm conciderable amused with ridiculous AppleHater ravings.

What exactly is illegal? What exactly is immoral?

And to further examine your 'opinion' — is MS protecting an illegal and immoral tie-in to XBox hardware, with the blocking out of running Wii or PS3 games, or with the running of alternative OSes, such as Linux?.

As far as I know itunes is made to work with apple products. Why doesn't palm just create a program that works as good as itunes and some how use the same library itunes uses.

maybe palm realizes that many people already have all of their music organized with itunes already and feel that as the owner of said music they should be able to put it on whatever device they want .. plam is not lazy ... palm has made it as simple as pluging in the device and dragging music files to a music folder on the device. Apple made the sync process so overcomplicated and people have been using it for so long they are stuck with it .. i cant stand macholes

Let's see if we can suss this out.

Palm can't pretend to have a "Universal Serial (iTunes Only) Bus"?

Is that what USB-IF is saying?

More and more I believe the purpose of all this is so that Palm can have a public fight with Apple.

RIM sells a lot more devices than Palm, and manages to sync them with iTunes content without any such drama.

And Pam, being full of ex-Apple people knew EXACTLY how Apple would respond. Cat and mouse and lots of press and fanboy flame wars was clearly their INTENTION.

I think that if palm was smart they would just build on the amazon relationship, vs trying to fight with apple. Amazon has Music, Video, and Audiobooks. why not just build a store off what they have than trying to use another store

Palm was never intending to masquerade Apple's USB vendor number. They are not that blatantly stupid in their quest to get their device to work with iTunes.....they were publicly disclosing the method that some bright young software developer could release a palm app to handle the translation. They would be absolved from doing the deed themselves and once posted and circulation began on the web, no amount of Apple lawsuits could ever have it go away.

Apple needs to get over it, they're still making $$$ selling music through iTunes. Apple should just write a $5-10 iTunes interface app that Palm users can download and buy.
And to the smug Apple Fanboys out there...Wasn't the iPhone touted as being 100% compatible with Exchange and e-mail. Didn't exactly work as advertised when using your device to piggy back on someone else's software technology without getting their blessing did it?

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