Chinese companies not welcome in India?

Posted by: Bruce Einhorn on October 18, 2006

It’s one thing for India to roll out the welcome map for Western multinationals looking to take advantage of Indian talent. But what happens when the companies that want to set up Indian R&D operations are from India’s longtime rival, China? Huawei Technologies, China’s No. 1 telecom equipment company, has had a small R&D center in Bangalore for a few years but has had trouble winning business from Indian operators – and clearly one reason has been Indian worries about being too nice to a company founded by a former member of China’s People’s Liberation Army, the same People’s Liberation Army that back in the days of Mao and Nehru clashed with India over disputed territory along the mountainous border between the two countries. Now China’s other world-class telecom equipment maker, ZTE, is trying to break into India – and having similar problems. Last week, Indian telecom operator BSNL disqualified the Chinese company from bidding for contract worth $4 billion for GSM equipment. You might say, that’s just business – and since Motorola also got the axe from BSNL, there’s clearly no anti-Chinese bias.

But, as Indrajit Basu points out in this story from the Asia Times, Motorola’s exclusion actually might prove that in this bidding, the rule was No Chinese Allowed. ZTE, Basu writes, was excluded for the obvious reason that it’s a Chinese company. As for Motorola, the American company was only one degree away from a Chinese company:

Motorola declared in its tender offer earlier that it was sourcing a significant part of its equipment from Huawei, another Chinese vendor. According to India’s intelligence agencies, like the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and the Intelligence Bureau, Huawei has been “responsible for sweeping operations in the country”. Consequently, the final bids have now narrowed down to just three European vendors, Ericsson, Nokia and Siemens.

The timing of the move against the two Chinese companies is odd. Chinese President Hu Jintao is scheduled to visit India next month. Trade between the two countries is on the rise and with the North Korean nuclear test once again putting the spotlight on the nukes deal that India made with the U.S., Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh wants Beijing’s support, according to this wire story in the Hindustan Times: “From India’s point of view, Hu’s visit is crucial as it gives New Delhi another opportunity to win Beijing’s backing - an influential member of the 45-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group - for the India-US civil nuclear deal and international nuclear cooperation. China can play a spoiler in NSG even after the nuclear deal clears the US Congressional process.”

Meanwhile, Indian companies like Infosys, TCS and Satyam have been pushing aggressively into China, with no opposition from the Chinese. (Of course, China is determined to build a software industry of its own, so there’s certainly self-interest at play here. But still.) The moves against ZTE and Huawei show that a lot of Indians still aren’t ready to make nice with China.

Reader Comments

outofin

October 18, 2006 6:54 PM

Blocking Chinese companies in telecom industry is not a news. The news is that sectors like household appliances are also Indian security concerns.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HJ18Df01.html

"New Delhi has long been wary of allowing Chinese to invest in sensitive sectors, such as ports and telecommunications, but the new edict will extend security reviews to all sectors, including such innocuous sectors as household appliances. For the first time China will be officially labeled a "security risk". "

jcage

October 18, 2006 8:50 PM

India has the superiority problem that it is being shown by the people who post comment on this thread.
They claim that their industries are strong due to quality of the management. However, Indian industry survive of protectionism and without it there would be no Indian industy to speak of.

Most of the Indian industry are not competitive with the exception such as Wipro and Infosys. They can not produce quality product that they can export to other part of the world. They need to be protected from the Chinese industry by the Indian government in order to survive.

India a country whose people living in the same condition as the poor people in the sub-saharan region of Africa. I feel sorry for them.

Buck

October 18, 2006 8:59 PM

Just finish reading the following articles, of course all from Indian news outlet. It should give you an idea of an average Indian psyche about themselves.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2170885.cms

http://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnews&id=35116


In most Indian minds back in India, India is the most powerful country in the world second only to US.

Why I mention this here under the topic about India and China? Because Indian media have been tirelessly tarnish China's image whenever and whereevr they can. But, they have spare no effort in self-promoting, albeit, under the slogan of "India shining", "India everywhere", "India---biggest democracy in the world".

It is not a surprise, in fact, almost certain, whenver China is mentioned, Indians will pop up their "democracy" "dictatorship", "free market" to defend India and ridicule China.

I have been to China and India many times. To my opinion based on what I know and see, there is no comparison between China and India. China is just far far ahead of India in everything you can think of.

For Indians, China wouldn't mind at all for being ridiculed of being such and such, it only serives for Indians to feel better at best.

proud indian

October 19, 2006 12:04 AM

How can you trust them? They betrayed us in 1962 after singing "Indi- chini- bhai- bhai" by attacking us without provocation. We have to be careful.

Cyber

October 19, 2006 12:22 AM

jcage wrote:

"Most of the Indian industry are not competitive with the exception such as Wipro and Infosys. They can not produce quality product that they can export to other part of the world. They need to be protected from the Chinese industry by the Indian government in order to survive.

India a country whose people living in the same condition as the poor people in the sub-saharan region of Africa. I feel sorry for them."

Go get a life. Finish your research first and then open up your mouth.

Andy

October 19, 2006 2:22 AM

The last time I checked, India has trade surplus with China for these many past years. Maybe its time for China to make a blacklist. An eye for an eye. Infosys, be ready.

tom sm

October 19, 2006 2:36 AM

These days, not a single say passes by without coming across some heated online debates on “India vs. China” somewhere. However, it is odd to me the online comments are more one-sided bashing from Indians than debates from both sides. I had a few chats with my Chinese friends on this. Their reaction may be surprising to you. In their mindsets, the comparison of India to China is as absurd and funny as comparison of Cuba to US and they do not even consider it worthwhile at all arguing with low-IQ Indians. It seems against common wisdom that authoritarian communist China outshine India economically, given Indian’s market economy, capitalist system and all those IITs modeled after American MIT and Harvard etc. Why? Their answer is a two-letter word “IQ”. It is not the IQs of the elite few Indians who migrate to US, but the national average IQ of population who make up the assembly workers, office clerks, carpenters and plumbers etc. These parts of population contribute most of a nation’s GDP. They argue that India’s average IQ of 81 is at incomparable disadvantages with China’s national average IQ of 100 (for ref, UK’s IQ is at 100 and US at 98). That is why few Chinese bother to debate “India vs. China”. These comments may not be politically correct. But it does explains why capitalist money flows to communist China, not free India.

proud indian

October 19, 2006 10:02 AM

Regarding comments by tom sm. Everybody knows about the absurdity of these IQ calculations. There are brilliant people in all countries so as morons. The little lead that China has over india in social indices is not because of any superiority in IQ. It is because of the cruel Chinese ruling system which suppresses freedom and make people work like slaves. Chinese autocratic leaders want to show-case China as an advanced country by making super highways and skyscrapers by bulldozing houses of poor people. There is no other country in the world which has rolled military tanks over student demonstrators. If you do not care for human rights, it is very easy to achieve progress. You can kill all the people who oppose a project and make others work like slaves to achieve your target. I do not consider China's progress anything worth admiring since it has been achieved over blood and tears of millions of poor people. In any case, this so called progress is not going to last much longer. A very bloody revolution is waiting to happen.

Talking about comparisons in social indices, India is going to overtake China in 30-40 years. India has already achieved 9 per cent GDP growth compared to China's 10.5 percent by spending one fourth of what China spends and also through democratic means, i.e without bulldozing poor people's homes.The Chinese lead will gradually decrease and soon Indian growth rate will overtake China's.

And about the main question raised in the article by Bruce - why Chinese investment is unwelcome in India? It is natural. India can not forget the betrayal by China in 1962. It has to be vigilant against an expansionist and vile China.

Chuck

October 19, 2006 11:02 AM

Since 1962 war has been mentioned as a factor in several above blogs, let's look at who was really the aggressor, as opposed to the common believes in Indian minds.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/dec/26chin.htm

The fact was, as it is today, India's Nehru government secretly concocted a plan and started the implementing it---which was annexing Tibet as part of India. The plan codenamed, "March Forward". Unfortunately, as even today, Indian government has never had the gall to release the report to the general public.

By the way, Tibet was formally conquered by China (Mongols to be exact) in 1420s. The British signed on an agreement that Tibet was part of China in 1910, when China proposed the agreement after they were suspicious of the British desire over Tibet.

Chuck

October 19, 2006 11:05 AM

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/dec/26chin.htm

I think I forgot to attach the article, which was on an very Indian website newslet.

Coby

October 19, 2006 11:13 AM

Proud Indian didn't do his history homework. China betrayed India in 1962? It was India that provoked China into war by sending its troops into Chinese territory. Indian troops even went into Chinese territory further than the one they claimed. That's why the investigation document is still off limits to the public in India. Because it will show you that India provoked the war and lost.

Buck

October 19, 2006 11:34 AM

It was not just Huawei that India had "security concerns". In a port construction project, Hutchinson Holdings, a Hong Kong based company, was also barred from bidding. Hutchinson Holdings owes most Panama Canal rights and is doing day-to-day management, and planning for next phase revamp projects.

It is not hard to see that "security concern" is merely a cover.

As for 1962 war, India lost and felt bitter. But, do Indians ever know and even are willing to know, it is the Chinese who, not only offerred, but in action stopped the war when they were in a position to take the whole India. Chinese retreated, not only the land they took, also 20-km further back from the line that India claimed (McMahon line). Even today, the disputed land (India made it a state in 1987, called Arunachal Pradesh) is in Indian possession. For any fair-minded people, it is not easy to learn that the disputed land is really Chinese. Tawang, the biggest town in that land, has always been Tibetan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arunachal_Pradesh

Davos

October 19, 2006 1:42 PM

It is hard for the Chinese to understand the Indian minds.

By barring Chinese companies and investment, the result is, it hurts India more than it hurts China that India intends to. For the Chinese, it is a matter of a few business opportinities, which they can live without. For the Indians, the downside effects, with its balooning government and current account deficits, are not hard to see:

1. Multiple cost of business
2. Add up to its already high inflation rate

Why? Hardware provided by Huawei is at 1/4 the cost of hardware from the West. Good economy, Indians.

Humble Chinese

October 19, 2006 3:37 PM

Wow! As a Chinese, I am very surprised that most Indians still harbor so much resentment against China for the 1962 war. There is a very good paper written by Nveille Maxwell about the war and its background.

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/1962war.htm

Basically, Tibet was a part of China since the 1700's. The British signed an agreement in 1906 in which they recognized China's sovereignty over Tibet. The McMahon Line was unitarerally drawn by the British as the border between India and China without any agreement from Beijing. South of that line, currently occupied by India, was a region traditionally part of Tibet. In fact, it was the birth place of a Tibetan Dalai Lama. China's unitalleral withdraw behind the McMahon Line (which she does not recognized)after a decisive military victory showed that she has no intention to be India's enemy.

I think (but I'm not sure) that Indians feel betrayed by China because it was the first nation to recognize the Communist government when very few in the world did, and relinguished its control of two Tibetan trading posts established by the British. The Chinese should be grateful for India's support. However, the Nehru administration simply took it for granted the whatever the British claimed was rightfully India's territories. He sent troops to occupy the region and even beyond the McMahon Line. For a decade before 1962, India's refusal to talk while conducting military advances was already a clear act of war. When Chinese troops tried to stop Indian advances by force which resulted in some clashes, Nehru declared war on China. China had no choice but to fight back. China has tacitly given up the lands south of the McMahon Line when she handed them back to India after the war. I failed to see where is the betrayal that Indians feel so strongly about.

Proud Indian

October 19, 2006 5:44 PM

Chuck wants everyone to read the "truth" about the Chinese agression on India in 1962 in an article at http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/dec/26chin.htm .

It is interesting to learn that this "truth" is written by One Mr.Wang Hongwei whose profile is as under (as per foot-note given below the article itself):

"Wang Hongwei is professor of South Asia regional studies at the Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, and adviser to the Chinese Association for South Asian Studies."

Can anyone expect a different "truth" from a person having such a profile ?

India can never trust China which shamelessly attacked India soon after signing an agreement in Delhi of 'Five Principles'involving respect of each other's territorial integrity etc.

Humble Chinese

October 19, 2006 11:10 PM

Dear Proud Indian,

If you don't believe that a Chinese person is capable of telling the truth, please read this Wikipedia article on the Sino-Indian War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

There are numerous reference materials on this article as well. The question for you is:
If the 'Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence'involving respect of each other's territorial integrity was observed by India, then why would India move troops into disputed territories and even beyond its own definition of the Northern borders into undisputed Chinese territories, while refusing to negotiate after China's repeated requests. Except for the brief period during the war, the Chinese troops never crossed the Indian claimed border into disputed territories, which were historically part of Tibetan lands until Nehru seized them by kicking out Tibetan adminstrators in 1948. Until today, India has refused to declassify its own findings about the war, the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat Report. Who do you think is telling the truth here?

Andy

October 20, 2006 12:04 AM

India attacked China first by sending soldiers to Chinese territory. Those soldiers even crossed the line that the Indians claimed which is the McMahon line. China simply retaliated for this traitorous act. Indians had confidence that they could beat China because they had just beaten Portuguese in Goa. I'm glad the Chinese taught those people a lesson.

Proud Indian

October 20, 2006 12:54 AM

Dear Humble Chinese,

Neville Maxwell is a known India basher. If you have any doubts, please read his other writings about India. To see the real colors of China, please read the following article:


http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/09franc.htm

Humble Chinese

October 20, 2006 4:03 AM

Proud Indian,

The Wikipedia was NOT written by Maxwell and it pretty had the same description of the war.

And how about this article written by CALVIN, James Barnard, Lieutenant Commander, U. S. Navy. It narrated the same set of facts and came to the same conclusion as Maxwell.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/CJB.htm

I think we should all be open-minded, especially when it comes to history. Be very doubtful of what your government tells you. I trust third-party independent sources of information a lot more than what my government tells me. So instead of labelling everyone who present undisputed but unfavorable facts as "India basher", maybe you should reexamine your unconditional faith in your government.

Nehru was a great leader as he did a lot of good things for his country. But his serious misjudgement leading up to the war was caused by the primo emotion of nationalistic ambitions, which I see many Indians are displaying on this forum. Remember, the absolute sense of moral superiority (We're right and you're wrong) was exactly what drove the American neo-conservatives to invade Iraq.

I don't want to debate with you on whether India is better than China. It's an absurd topic because you are trying predict what will happend 10, 20 or even 50 years into the future. But I will read your article.

Humble Chinese

October 20, 2006 4:25 AM

Proud Indian,

This article you showed me is full of rhetorics. As I said, I only want to see facts and make my own conclusions. Tibet has been a part of China since the 1700's. Even Britain recognized that fact in 1906 in a signed agreement. India has no more business to interfere with Tibet anymore than China has with Sikkim, which was never recognized by the international community as part of India before the annexation. China has been a supporter of Pakistan just like the US has. At least China is not hosting exiled leaders of separatist movements like India is doing to China for decades. Anyway, the game will never end as long as nations exist and mistrust continues. I wish Indians will be more informed and friendly to China for the sake of mutual benefits. But if most Indians think like you, I can only feel tremendous regrets, as India should've been a great friend of China. I can tell you that most Chinese view India with a positive view.

Vikram

October 22, 2006 1:28 AM

Lets have a solution here..Why are the Chinese so scared of The Dalai Lama..Keep areferendum in Tibet and you will know Tibet's intentions...In China you have to write an essay aginst the Dalai Lama ridiculing him to apply for any civil service posts..thi sis preposterous and hypocratic...
Hey the people of China will flee the nation if they get an opportunity too...See according to the UN Human Rights report of 2005 Chinese constitute the worlds largest number of asylum seekers..Why?..this is political repression...How can a Chinese ever freely express his or her views in blog slike these..these murderers in Beijing will slaughter them...tanks will be rolled on them...
How can any self respecting country trust this nation, allies to treachorous nations like North Korea...

Humble Chinese

October 23, 2006 11:20 AM

Vikram,

I don't see India holding a referendum in Sikkim when she seized the territory. Why don't all countries in the world hold referendum to determine what lands belong to whom? It would be interesting.

Rich Western countries like to think that they are morally superior just like you are now. Asylum policies are a way they express this sentiment. The thing is, only rich countries can do this because people only want to stay in those countries. India is not be a good destination for those asymlum seekers. Indians, being from a democratic country, would not be eligible for asylum and therefore very few tried. India has been close to the Soviet Union since its independence, getting weapons and aid. I boggles my mind to think that as much as a country of freedom, India would align itself with Stalin for so many years, but she did.

So please let's be real. It's not about democracy or free press. The issues that Indians have with China is about land, pride, and self-interests.

Andy

October 23, 2006 2:29 PM

If there is a referendum in Kashmir and Sikkim, India will certainly lose the regions. That's why India send troops instead of ballots.

India has trade surplus with China, maybe it is time for China to review the business relationship with India.

jcage

October 24, 2006 12:33 AM

Humble Chinese, you are correct about the true motive of the Indian from this forum and the Indian government. They still want to relieve the time when India was the lackey of the British. India supply troop to help the British to conquer other countries during colonial time and India was the major producer of opium that the world has ever known!

After India got their Independence from the British, they decide to follow the foot step of the British colonialism such as trying to get Tibet out of China territory and then swallow it up as India did with Sikkim using manipulated election! While Nehru was talking about brotherhood with China, he was secretly supporting the CIA and the Tibet upper caste to cause problem in China. Nehru allowed the Tibet upper caste and the CIA to use India as based of operation so they could carry attack in Chinese territory. Later on, China managed to crush the CIA funded and trained Tibetan, that Nehru decided to use direct military force to annex Tibet. His excuse was to use colonial time document to enforce his right. This is the equivalent of Queen of England demanding the president of a foreign countries based in colonial time document.

Nehru really only cared for himself and his own power. He was ready to sacrify India for his own gain and it was under his watch that he allow the partition of India into East Pakistan and West Pakistan.

David Lee

October 24, 2006 6:00 AM

India is not as democratic as they want the world to think.

If there is a referendum in Kashmir, the majority of people will either vote for Independence or merge with Pakistan.

India holds its grip on Kasmir with military force and torture of independant minded kasmiris.

So much hype for Indian democracy and human rights.

SmartOpinion

October 24, 2006 9:24 AM

@ALL SO CALLED CHINESE bloggers....

Stop ganging up and give it a rest. Indians have problems with Chinese Communism and not the Chinese people and hence INDIA/CHINA relationship will always be controversial. India never attacked any country and hence stop preaching us about any social injustice. List of countries that attacked India include CHINA, PAKISTAN, UK, FRANCE, PORTUGAL, JAPAN.
Learn from history why they did.

I guess the rest of the world cannot understand the language of NON-VIOLENCE same as THESE VIOLENT CHINESE bloggers. I bet some of you are disguised, disgruntle White AMERICAN BLOGGERS.

Please give a rest to SIKKIM or TIBET Issue. Here is a crash course for @ANDY AND @JCAGE @Disguised AMERICANS (Jeez !!! by now you guys should be graduates in Economics after all these crash courses).
Small countries do not matter in Global economics with the exclusion of Japan who was one of the first comers. All that matters is access to big markets. If one persist for a separate land they would regret that in long term. Look at Bangladesh who parted away from India. Look at Pakistan who on the basis of religion parted away and now is the home of Global terrorist.

@ANDY AND @JCAGE
The INDIAN ARMY IS MADE UP OF MORE THAN 20% OF SIKHS AND THAT IS A FACT. YOUN KEEP ATTACKING INDIAN BLOGGERS WHAT’s YOUR TAKE ON TIBET. By the way are you guys on Chinese government payroll. ‘Cos looks like you guys don’t have anything to defend about all the questions that have been asked and you keep asking question for a question?

@NOT SO HUMBLE CHINESE
Please try to answer how Communism is better than Democracy in lay man terms with factual examples. If you DON'T UNDERSTAND COLD WAR THEN please register with me for some crash courses. Looks like you don't even understand COLD WAR BASICS. When INDIA LIBERATED Bangladesh it was U.S. who opposed it. Since that time until now US was against INDIA and hence naturally INDIA was pro Russia. Another reason was U.S. was pro-Pakistan so naturally India was pro-Russia. For the 20 years INDIA was talking about Pakistan habouring terrorits but the US was using this an issue to control INIDA. Guess what these same terrorist acheived 9/11. The same is going to happen to the Chinese. In the long term these Pakistani fanatics are going to infiltrate China and try spread JIHAD. All that is needed is an excuse.

ARE YOU CHINESE GOING TO BE PRO-INDIA if INDIA SUPPORTS TIBET breaking away from CHINA. Do you get it now?

Humbe Chinese

October 25, 2006 11:58 AM

SmartOpinion,
As I stated many times, I never wanted debate whose government or economy is better and who will win in 30 years. I wish all the "pro-China" people would've stop baiting the Indians already. Indians can claim how China will crash and India will soar all they want. I have no interests in joining that debate. So NO, I won't answer your question about how Communism is better than Democracy and turn it into another juvenile shouting match.

I won't discuss why India sided with the Soviet Union in the Cold War either since you agree with me that India did become Stalin's good friend. My point was, it does show that India was willing to be friends with one Communist nation when she wants weapons and aids, but be enemy with another because she wants more lands. So I made a wild guess that India's anti-China attitude is about self-interests and not that China is a Communist nation.

I am here only to give unbiased factual references about the Sino-Indian War of 1962 to everyone. These are all written by Westeners(even US miliary officers), hardly pro-China or anti-India. Please refer to my previous postings if you want to read those articles. Historical facts show that India marched her army into disputed territories first, then went beyond its own claim into Indian recognized Chinese territories, and it was India who refused any negotiations after repeated Chinese requests. You are welcome to dispute these facts with credible sources.

Andy and Jcage,
please quit fanning the flame already. Let the Indians on this forum trash talk all day.

jcage

October 25, 2006 1:27 PM

Smartopinion, please calm down. Most of my best friend happen to be Hindus and I even got several Hidus girlfriends. I like curry and I like you as well.
Please don't take it personal. True hurt and it is the true. China is not perfect and it has a long way to go and many Chinese agree to that. However, Hindus seems to think that they are Elvis and they are perfect.
Now, don't take it personal.

Andy

October 26, 2006 1:19 AM

It seems that we touch the nerve of smarty. So India justified its invasion of Sikkim and Kashmir because they're small? Wow, what an amazing reason. You said that we're paid by CCP, then you must be paid by the incompetent Indian government to defend their incapability and corrupted nature. India never attacked any country? You must have short term memory because you just admitted that India invaded Sikkim. Democracy is better than communism, but then again the enemy of communism is not democracy, but capitalism. And India is not a good example of democracy, but the opposite of it. Calling India an example of democracy is like saying cheese burger is a gourmet.
Oh, and finally stop acting like India is a peaceful country. India is no better than China. It developed nuclear weapon and spend billions of dollar to purchase arms every year. But of course you have the right like the Chinese have to defend their national interest.

jcage

October 26, 2006 1:42 AM

Smartopinion, please don't get angry and try to get a grip of yourself. I understand that it is very hard to accept unpleasant true. India is not the paragon of democracy that you are being taught since kindergarden.

India did invade a lot of countries such as Sikkim, Kashmir, Khalistan and other countries. Please don't try to pretend to be Sikh since we all know that Sikh is an opressed minory in India. That why so many Sikh go into the army since all the best and least dangerous job go to the Hindus.
One or two Sikh that make it big does not mean that a great majority of the Sikh are not oppressed.
Best regards

Stephen

October 28, 2006 3:48 AM

USSR looked a perfect country and superpower until the late eighties..in came two words "Glastnost and Presteroika" and the Gas went out of this unshakable power...China is following suit..How many times does History have to repeat itself..India is not only about hindus,it sabout muslims christians sikh and even jews..u know we even have Buddhists...wow in China the comms cant bear religion..look what they did to Falung Gong sect...murdered them,persecuted them...India will emerge no doubt about it.as of China..we dont know if there will be one in ten years..haha Cheers Guys and dont get so emotional..America still rules and will do so for most of our lifetimes atleast so why worry..the world is in safe hands!!

Bnair

October 28, 2006 7:19 PM

This whole China vs India topic(s) are sadly becoming a forum for mud-slinging. While journalistic privilege allows these type of comparisons (though boring – as if there is only China and India to compare), allowing passions to cloud our thoughts and indulge in this type of debate is worthless. China and India are great nations in their own right, but do understand each country has a long way in reaching the levels of prosperity and advancement enjoyed by some other countries. We should see a win-win situation if each country progresses rather than hark back to the adversarial scenarios and some half truths, being bandied about here.
I doubt whether there is any real antagonism between populace of India and China in general – though lot of suspicions remain regarding the communist government in China. (I for one would prefer an imperfect democratic government to a communist one)

Indian

October 29, 2006 1:15 PM

I am an Indian and you should not expect me to have perfect English (not my mother language).

I am not here to take any sides. China is good in Hardware field, while India is good in Software field. If you guys want to learn more about China then click https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html If you want to learn more about India then click https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html Let me just say one thing. I am an Indian but I don't brag about IIT or Bangalore. My Chinese friends don't brag about how China is better and all. All of us (me and my Indian and Chinese friends) know about our countries and the rules/regulation they have. India has so many poor people; should India blame British government? Another debate could take a part but right now it doesn’t matter. If you don’t know anything about what British did in India then don’t even bother to post anything related to this topic. Anyways, India is trying hard in this century to make the Indian economy better. China has some rules which are considered cruel. They are planning to change them as time pass by to improve their economy. Things like these don’t change in 24 hours. In this century, both countries realized their weaknesses and power and planning to change them in next decade or so. Once India do something about poor people and China do something about their few rules, then we can compare both countries. Right now, I don’t see any point. We (me and my Indian/Chinese friends) don’t go out and ask some other people who never lived in India/China about their opinion.


One more thing, why are people talking about the war?

Again, I am not taking anyone’s side. Some of you might not agree with my opinion and that’s cool with me but. I don’t know why Chinese and Indian’s are arguing about War so much? Did the author mention the Indo/China war at least once in his article?

Steve

October 30, 2006 11:48 AM

China and US had wars. So what? We are biggest business partners. Moto, Boeing, Lucent, any US companies are treated equally with companies from other countries.

China and Vietnam had wars even in 1980s, but it has no negative impacts on the business.

China is not singled out by India government for sanctions, but Indian companies is fairly treated in China. From WIPRO, INFOSYS, to M&M, Mittal, all are welcomed to invest and do their business in China.

Dilip

November 9, 2006 5:28 PM

This is good news. India must take care of its own interests first.

Fred

November 11, 2006 3:21 PM

I have found that too many indians are too sensitive when it comes to the comparison between India and China, while engaging tireless in this sort of comparison. The fact is, India is far far BEHIND China in almost all aspects of social and economical development. It also come to my attention that Indians like to point finger to China even though a topic is started by a person or institution other than China's. Why is it so?

mys21

November 13, 2006 1:10 PM

Really boring with above arguing about the war. Make no sense. We all should be open-minded and face nowaday problems frankly. Time will tell truth soon. Both countries have their own situation. But people of both countries wanna see a harmonious Asia, peaceful world. China and India should learn to each other to get win-win promotion. Hope president Hu Jintao's visit to India be fruitful. We have a long way to go for mutual prosperity. Chinese is friendly and creditable. Hope some Indian friends get rid of those prejudice. No need to share your tunnel vision. Again, welcome all indian friends to China, travel,investment,communion,teaching etc.,any time. I wanna travel, instead of investment, to India someday, do you welcome me?

ly sen

November 14, 2006 10:48 PM

I am a Chinese guy and I respect indians because they are so hard working. They are hard working because they want to be, but Chinese are hard working because the goverment @$#&! Chinese if we are not hard working.

I know India is good but the Chinese goverment gives wrong information. There is no information about 1989 incident in China but in the world Google gives full information.

I am ashamed of our goverment.

Sen

css

November 15, 2006 12:49 AM

Sen,
Stop masquerading as a Chinese guy.

Pillai

November 15, 2006 9:44 PM

Hello everyone...I've been following this argument for a while now without making any comments.

But this is getting quite dumb. I am a South African settled in Australia.

Let me point out a few things about India that many 'educated' and 'developed' Indians seem to conveniently forget:

1. Your country's original name from time immemorial was 'Bhaaratha' and it was home to civlizations that made the Mughal empire and British empire seem like child's play. If you're a free country, why not retain your own name?!

2. Your national anthem was written by Tagore in the 20s in praise of king George (I forget the number) of England. You were licking brit ass back then, and you do it now to the americans.

3. If you hadn't let MK Gandhi screw you around, you'd still be a rich country. In 1945, you were the richest country in the world. Nehru, Gandhi and a few other select thieves robbed you under your nose while you paid homage to them. All this is recorded in history (NOT the indian version)

4. Your 'national' language hindi is descended from Farsi, Urdu and some other languages and did not even have a written form till recently. Why is it that you abandoned ancient and highly developed languages like Samskrith and Tamil for bastardized languages that don't even originate in your land?

5. Why do you presume that your country is all that greater than China? You have more mosquitoes there than the Chinese have humans.

6. Did any of you know that Nehru and his family converted to islam for many reasons, one of them being power?

7. Why is it even today that you allow uneducated morons to be part of your civil, banking, medical and juridical services? Why doesn't your government give 'backward' classes free education instead of 'reserving' seats and positions for them?

If you're really a democracy, do something about this and prove it. Don't just criticize how you've been cheated by other cultures. Stop your government and institutions cheating yourselves.

The Chinese are a far better culture than you are. It may sound wrong that tanks were rolled over students, but what if the students were wrong? The Chinese government has lead the country to success. Yours has not.
While Japan and the US follow some pretty dictatorial policies, though the US touts itself as the land of the free...you are the only country that claims to be secular and yet allow the government to discriminate amongst you. True, the americans are misinformed about the Iraq war, and their corporates have raped Iraq, but you seem to be misinformed about the last few thousand years of your history - especially the last three hundred years.
True that 800 years ago, when Marco Polo traveled across your nation he claimed he had seen the most advanced civilization in the world.

But that was then. Now, the very best you can do is call an artificial language your national language, and use a british misspelling as the name of your country - and yet you appallingly refer to yourself as a 'free' nation. bah.

Stop criticizing developed economies like China and grow up.

It is thanks to people like you that the Holy Land of Bhaaratha has become the pathetic, overpopulated, third world economy of India.

arjun

November 16, 2006 5:22 AM

funny that educated such as you are comming with crap these days.as for my opinions not quoting any max or any report is the this region would be better of if we (thats india and china)started thinking a bit positive.
as for some people(esp the west) it is an issue bcoz they simply cant see another
country/countries developing.thats why they feed some much misinformation for fools like u to argue over.as to who started the war......such a stupid question to ask as this point of time.the war is over and we indians lost it..and its gone now its over......and we learnt from it. thats it.we have to look forward to develop our country rather than comparing it to any other.and as for mr andy maybe you live in the dark ages if you are comparing indians to sub-saharan africans.maybe you shud go to india and stop watching whats shown on tv.

Arrogant BStard

November 16, 2006 4:54 PM

Pegging Currency to Dollar is not protectionism?
I think Chinese are the last souls talking about free trade or fair trade. Humble chinese, get back to work, finish that 200 pairs of fake nike order from Germany.

Krish

November 17, 2006 6:32 PM

I am US Citizen of Indian descent. I grew up in in Keshav Puram, New Delhi, India.

I will throw my 2c on this debate on India vs China. In opinion this is an apples to oranges type of comparison.

All said and done, in terms of economic progress, military and general human development index, China is lightyears ahead of India.

Indians need to stop wasting their time and arguing with their Chinese friends, about who is better and start working to prove that they are worthy of the consideration.

I read somewhere that China managed to bring about 400 Million people above the poverty line after they started their economic liberalization in late seventies.

India has had much smaller but similar results, primarily because of the nature of the Indian political system.

I'm very proud of India's achievements
inspite of huge bureaucratic hurdles laid out by the government till about 1990s. The Indian entrepreneur has had to surmount huge challenges to get their businesses off the ground and make some money.

In that respect the Indian business-persons have learnt how to be very efficient with capital and be very innovative in how they further their business. The ugly side of that equation is they have managed water seed of corruption to see it grow into a giant tree with deep roots. And, in process also mastered the art of exploiting the poor.

In both cases, I believe that once the countries come to a level of prosperity similar to the western world, people will demand gaurantees for life, liberty and persuit of happiness.

~~~ peace.

Vishnu Sreevalsan

November 20, 2006 6:53 PM

All this war talk is just rubbish. I can get you 10 sites supporting india's views and another 10 supporting the chineese the only thing that matter is it happend 44 years ago and both countries are not the same.

I am very well aware that at this point in history China is far ahead of india in almost every field. But many of the pro chineese posters here forget how they went about achieving it. Chineese farmers are forcefully removed from their villagers and their villagers are destroyed to create industry. They build dams and entire cities go under water. In a totalitarian state its easy to suppress struggles and revolts against the government and because of censorship we dont know about it. What china is presenting to you is its polished face in its cities with all the sky scrapers and glittery glassy cities. It dosent mean there aint no shit happening there, the government of that country wont allow you to see it.

Now in the case of India. By the time the Brits left our country was a mess. The agriculture and industrial sectors were inefficient and there was a greater level of backwardness. We chose a democracy over a totalitarian state, a democracy that still lives on despite huge problems and wars and political and civil unrest. Pakistan chose the same path and look what has come of them. We perhaps did the best we could being a democracy to be where we are now. Our cultural and scientific revolutions didn't kill 30 million people. The media has full access to India and India is what you see it is. Its an Emerging economic power but you can see our problems with ur very own eyes. We dont restrict you to our villages our riot hit places our cities with buzzing slow traffic and slums. We don't hide our true colours and appear all polishy and shiny infront of the world.

Now i am no soothsayer I am not saying China will self destruct or India will overtake them. I don't actually give a damn if they become the worlds new superpower and largest economy with bells and whistles as long as my country is doing well. I just want people to judge us fairly what you are judging us on what they see on tv.

Some poster here said about communist China being prefered by capitalists over democratic India. Communism lives only in name there. Evacuating farmers and vlllagers from their homes to develop industry is not communism its capitalism and exploitation of the poor. Capitalists love totalitarian states they are better places to invest becuase they can do whatever they pleases as long as they have the government support no Mass Strikes no worker rallies no Court Orders :)).

Now My Average American Friend would you rather be an indian middle class person who can watch all the tv channels in the world and can be assured that the govtis not checking his personal mail or do u want to be a chineese middle class person who may be better off but is restricted in every move he make ?

A cage is a cage even if its made of Gold

wilfred

November 21, 2006 12:28 AM

There are Indians of no substance and who having no substance to rebut the facts and figures attesting to China's superior development resort to arguing about the superiority of their 'democracy' and 'freedom'. I think Indians are so proud of their democracy because they have been deluded and flattered by Western media.

Everyone knows that real freedom starts when you have money. A higher proportion of Chinese are better-off than Indians and therefore more Chinese actually have freedom of choice compared to Indians. The only 'freedoms' I see the majority poor in India have is freedom to starvation, freedom to wear tattered clothes and freedom to sleep on the five-foot ways.

The past few years Western magazines have written feature articles extolling the Indian success story. Actually it is the same story. Other than the usual mention regarding the IT services industry, call centres and pharmaceuticals, they actually have very little to write about India. Witness the slide show titled Modern Wonders of India in BusinessWeek's Architecture section. I really wanted to laugh because almost all the architecture wonders it is talking about are in the proposed or 'in the future to come' stage.

I think Indians are just too easily flattered by the articles written by international publications. Every little article of praise turn them ecstatic.

It is also because Indians have so little achievements to boast about that they like to bask in reflected glory for every little achievement of their 'countrymen'. (e.g. Mittal's takeover of Arcelor).

I really don't have anything against Indians. They are a country not without an intellectual tradition and a veneer of them will excel in the professional services industries. What I don't like is their inclination to brag and boast and to talk bad about their neighbor. This will yet be their undoing.

Vishnu Sreevalsan

November 21, 2006 1:58 PM

Like I said you are benchmarking India on its poor and its people which you see with tattered clothes and all. And You are benchmarking china on their wonderful glossy cities. You all forget how they achieved it. If we were a totalitarian state we would have done the same if not better. I believe the western people who have not faced such huge problems faced by India and China when they are formed do not have the right to judge either of the countries. America would have done far worse if they had the problems we faced.

What you are not seeing is china is taking the shortest path to economic success by leaving its people no choice in decison making. While we are making slow and steady progress which will eventually leave us in a better position. Economic transformation is easier than political transformation.

As for our democracy we chose the system no body chose it for us. During the cold war we allied ourselves with the USSR but that alliance never led us to a coup or a change in govt to communism. We always valued our democracy. The west began praising it only after we opend our markets and became more inclined towards the west.

What freedom of choice does the chineese have do you belive having more money to buy stuff is freedom :)). Can he take it to the streets if his government has done something bad. Can he choose who governs him. Can he sue the state ... he can but he will end up in jail for other charges... He cant even have more than one child. If you call that freedom No Sir No Thanks You can have it. I would rather see my country going slower and steadier.

The previous poster haven't obviously read my last post...Or i guess all he thinks of is about skyscrapers. How about Human Rights for a change Mr Wilfred

Vishnu Sreevalsan

November 21, 2006 2:01 PM

Heres an Article thats published in Harvard Business School's Website

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/3604.html

css

November 21, 2006 11:10 PM

I totally agree with Wilfred. When Indians starts to talk about their democracy and freedom, it is actually a front for inadequacy.

Vishnu should be well versed with Maslow's Hierachy of Needs before he talks about the things he cares about.

SI

November 23, 2006 1:41 AM

Wilfred's comments probably written from somewhere outside China,doesn't really deserve a reply.Let me just point out that,I can post a note here or in any site,sitting in my own country without worrying that somoene would come knocking in the night.Nuff said.
btw,it was funny of css to say that Vishnu should read 'Maslow's' Hierachy of Needs before deciding what 'Vishnu' cares about.

But I digress.My intention of posting here is to have a talk with humle_chinese.

If you go through Tibet's history,you can see that as early as in the 7h century,Indian languages were accepted as their langage and literary works were written in it.The Tibetans were different from the Han Chinese.It is not to claim that Tibet belongs to India,I just say that they have a seperate identity and China's claim on it is not really objective.The 1913 declaration of DalaiLama points out that Tibetans never accepted that it fell under Chinese administration.Tibet was occupied vy various Chinese dynasties at different points of time.
"The British signed an agreement in 1906 in which they recognized China's sovereignty over Tibet".Well the accord was something like Britain and Russia will not deal directly with Tibet,but only through China.In any case,this treaty was called off in 1921.

McMohan line,the Chinese first signed and then withdrew,but their opposition had noting to do with the Tawang area.The technicality behind opposition was that they won't agree Tibet signing any agreement directly.The point of dispute was not Tawang,but boundary between Tibet and China.Moreover,China settled its differences with Burma on the basis of the same line too...
Actually many observers in India doubt that China is really interested in Tawang.They suspect that China keep tawang issue alive because of the Aksai Chin issue,to use it as a pressurising tactic.

Gautham Sreeram

November 23, 2006 5:46 AM

when i think about the Tibetian question a story comes to mind.once a boy shot a pigeon.other boy healed it.former became king. he ruled.and died.later one became Buddha and lived for ever.
.

Humbe Chinese

November 23, 2006 4:47 PM

SI, Tibetans do have their own distinct culture, as well as elements of influence from outsiders. If culture is the determininng factor in defining national borders, then both China and India, as well as many countries in the world today, should be divided into many little nation states. The fact is, most modern nations, especially big ones, are formed over centuries of regional history. It was a well known fact that China ruled Tibet for much of the last three centuries, sometimes strong and direct, sometimes moderate and nominal. China never signed an agreement on Tibetan borders with Britain or India. The Tibetan delegates did. In light of the fact that Britain recognized Tibet as part of China, it would be like the Scotland local government were to sign a treaty with China or the US defining its borders with Enland. The reason the British didn't seek China's signiture was that China refused to give up the territories that she wanted. This is the original text from the 1907 treaty signed by Britain, Russia and China,

"The Governments of Great Britain and Russia recognizing the suzerain rights of China in Thibet". (http://www.tibetjustice.org/materials/treaties/treaties12.html)

In 1921, the British and Russian wanted to back out of the treaty that they signed without consent from China. However, the historical fact is there for the world to behold and cannot be erased. As long as we are going back in history to argue for splitting other countries' territories, India is certainly far from being innocent of her conquest of indigenious lands that were once independent. Remember that the Sikhs took up arms against Indian rule as recently as 1984 and was crushed the India army. This argument is simply a dead end. Unless Indians respect China's rights to her territories like Tibet, they won't get the respect that they want.

Regarding the War of 1962, contrary to your claim, China (emperial and republic governemnt) never signed anything to recognize the McMohan Line. If you have any references to back up your claim please do so. You can read the article from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_Line). I do believe that in 1962, the Chinese government was probably willing to recognize this line if India would recognize its rights in the western part of the disputed borders, given that China retreated behind the McMohan Line after winning the war. The facts remain that India was too arrogant in her approach to border issues with China. When there was no treaties signed by the two sides and there is a dispute about where the border should be, it is only reasonable to sit down and talk about it. But India chose to march her army all the way up to where she claimed the border is and even crossed it, despite China's pleas for negotiation for years. China even secretely told India that she was willing to trade the eastern border(the McMohan Line) for the western part, but India's reply was "no negotiation will take place until China get out of all territories claimed by India." This is the kind of attitude the British had when they were the master of the world. India should have never inherited such arrogance toward its neighbors.

From a practical point of view, the eastern part of the disputed territories is more import to India than to China, while the western part is exactly the opposite. I do believe that the final settlement, if there will be one, is going to be pretty close to the current actual line of control. Unrestrained pride is toxic when dealing with international affairs. India must learn that other people deserve their respect as well before she can command hers.

SI

November 23, 2006 9:32 PM

Humble_chinese,
I do not know what led you to believe that I don't respect China.I do believe and advocate that India and China should and must co-operate,not compete.And I do appreciate that the Chinese unilaterally withdrew after taking over a lot of Indian territory in the 1962 war.
But on the border issue, things are not as clear as you think.
Your arguments come straight out of Neville Maxwell's work, with all the arrogance and aggression coming from Nehru. To regard it as the ultimate truth is a mistake, as it is a very partial piece of work. If you want, I can give you books which present a different angle. (The wiki is not suited as a historical document, as you are already aware)
You asked me if I have any proof that China signed the 1914 agreement. The signature of the Chinese official Ivan Chen is on the paper.It was after few days that Chinese government retracted from the treaty.
McMohan line was the basis by which China settled its border disputes with Burma.A line which is acceptable in that case,is not acceptable in the specific area of Tawang?
Chou-in-Lai has also gone on record to say that though they consider the line illegal,he is ready to practically accept it.Infact the renewed interest of China in the Tawang region started after the 1959 Tibetan revolution. The Chinese suspected that Tawang was used by CIA as a base to supply the Tibetan revolutionaries.
You say that “Unless Indians respect China's rights to her territories like Tibet, they won't get the respect that they want.” I want to remind that this is the case for AP too.
Sikhs taking up arms, well, while I won’t go deep into it, let me just say that India is not taking up the Chinese suppression Uighur Muslims as a matter between the two countries. The point is, some territories have long accepted their position as part of the empire, while others haven’t. If you remember Neville Maxwell, he has written that there was some haggle over the words sovereignity and suzerainity when the British signed that agreement. Tibet has a long standing history of territoril dispute with China dating longer than the history of modern China, while Sikhs or the Uighur people don’t.. Mongolia owns a lot of Indian and Chinese territory if we follow the historical method of letting conquests decide the boundaries.

Humble Chinese

November 23, 2006 10:46 PM

SI, if you are debating on the history of Tibet, I think we are taking it way too far from the subject. I won't go into that or whether the Sikh's homeland, Prunjab, should be part of India. About the war of 1962, neither side is completely innocent or responsible. My original post was in response to some rhetorics from an Indian comment that India should shut out Chinese companies because China invaded India. My purpose is to give some facts to contradict what the Indian government has been telling its people that made so many Indians believe that it was China's blatant act of aggression against their innocent, peace loving country. I do think that if Nehru had acted more responsibly, even entertain the Chinese proposal, basically trading the east for west, with a bilateral talk, the war could have been avoided. Refusing to talk while pushing forward militarily is not an acceptable behavior of a great nation like India.

My source of information is not just Maxwell's writing. I cited other references, one from a former US military officer. Please look at my previous posts. I am interested in other sources, just hope I have time for a book.

ChinaResident

November 24, 2006 3:28 AM

I think these comments just show the mistrust between two cultures. I live just outside of Beijing and also travel to India quite a lot. Both Indian and Chinese friends alike seem to have terrible things (and actually the same) to say about each other. However, honestly I find the Chinese to be more arrogant about their position because they appear to be rising faster than the Indians. I think everyone wants a piece of the pie, and has different skills to bring to the table. So, an attack on the intelligence of either the Indians is a logical fallacy considering that it is almost impossible to measure the true intelligence of a human being.

ChinaResident

November 24, 2006 3:36 AM

BTW, HumbleChinese, on the basis of experiencing this as an outsider(Western) that has been in the North, South, East, and West of China while living here for several years. I completely and absolutely disagree that most Chinese view Indians positively. I think they view the Indians like they do the Africans...Lesser human beings. I have experienced this many times and find this to be a big problem in China and throughout the world.

Vishnu Sreevalsan

November 24, 2006 1:59 PM

The tibeten and Sikkim issues are already solved. I believe there was an agreement during the 2003 visit of the then Indian Prime Minister Mr Vajpayee to China where India recogonised chinas claims to tibet and china recogonised Indias claims over sikkim. But its to be reminded that India has never supported an armed struggle against the chineese authorities in tibet by the tibetans. We gave refugee to Dalai Lama because of Indias respect for him as a global personality and because of our secular nature.

In the border issue i side with Humble Chinese. I believe that the recogonition of present boundaries is the way to go. But if India is to give the chinese controlled kashmir to them it may put china in a spot of bother if the kashmir issue is going to be solved in the future.

And finally just because Humble Chinese is not replying positively to our comments dosen't mean he don't agree to them. I meant he may have to risk it all if he criticize his government.

John Davis

November 24, 2006 8:37 PM

I think India has a reason to be cautious about letting Chinese free access to its economy. Though both countries are abysmally poor by world standards, china's economy is bigger and its policies are more aggressive. As India was attacked by China in 1962 and it suffered a humiliating defeat in the war, it is probably not sure of the Chinese intensions. China does not have this problem. It was the winner in the war and also it is economically and militarily stronger even now. So it does not take India as a potential danger.

Our Chinese and Indian friends have been fighting here to prove the greatness of their respective countries. What they should do is stop fighting and work for making their homelands a better place to live. Both China and India are very poor by world standards and they have to go very far to give their citizens a decent standard of living. It is ridiculous to compare the wealth of two poor people. Let the Chinese and Indian friends utilize their energies for contributing towards betterment of the living standards of their utterly poor fellow countrymen.

Proud Indian

November 24, 2006 9:27 PM

The poor Chinese writing here do not have the freedom even to express their honest comments because of the fear of the Chinese authorities. They very well know that the suppression in China is unbearable and their lives are worthless in the eyes of the Chines authorities. The Chinese rulers are only interested in projecting China as a super power at any cost. They drive poor people away to countrysides to make way for expressways and skyscrapers. The chinese people are like pigs in a cage. The pigs will be fed by the masters if they wish so, but also can be slaughtered at the wish of the masters. I wonder how the Chinese can live a life of slaves in this modern age. Unlike the Chinese, we Indians are free to eat, free to starve, free to have as many children as we want, free not to have children, free to talk, free not to talk etc. What is the meaning of progress without freedom?

Humble Chinese

November 25, 2006 1:56 AM

SI, I had the chance to look up the information about the Simla Convention and the Chinese representive Ivan Chen who you claimed had signed the treaty recognizing the McMohan Line. Ivan Chen initialed, NOT signed, a draft, not the final document, of the treaty. The Chinese government immediately repudiated the unauthorized compliance. Furthermore, a treaty must be ratified by the authoritative institutions of the signing parties. George W. Bush, the President of the United States, not merely a representative, signed (with his full signiture on a final document) a nuclear treaty with India. Even then the US Congress must still ratify it before it becomes legally binding. How can India assume her rights on the McMohan Line with such a weak excuse?

DaBrownGuy

November 26, 2006 5:10 PM

@Pillai

Note: Remember when you were in elementary school (if you had a good education, because it seems that you haven't) people said MYOB (Mind Your Own Business) as a comeback.

I wish you would rather think twice before having to say dumb crap about India, which you are not even a citizen of, or even partly related through blood.

Might I also remind you that the Indian Army is so powerful, that we can nuke South Africa to the Stone Age?

@Humble Chinese

Quit turning this thing into a flame war...

If you want to flame, why don't you just create a forum for yourself and flame yourself over India...

You have repeatedly dodged every question launched at you in retaliation for your own questions, which we Indians have answered...

I don't see any "great" Chinese scientists who have contributed greatly to science.

We Indians on the other hand found the circumference of the Earth, discovered calculus, and developed most of modern math before you ever did.

Subramanyan Chandrasekhar was able to figure out something extremely vital for science that boosted our understanding even more, and allowed us to figure out that black holes and neutron stars exist.

We figured out how to use rockets in war, thanks to Tipu Sultan, who was a Muslim (we respect all religions unlike you'll) against the British.

@jcage

I looked at your post about having "hindu gfs" and liking curry... BS...

If you are going to say something, don't make it a piece of bulls**t, because most of us can tell when someone is putting up BS.

@SI

Mongolia may have gone and got a good chunk of India, but lets try to stay in the present, rather than hitting the history textbooks, since after all, textbooks do cause permanent brain damage if misused. By the way, how long have you been hitting your head with a textbook before you posted here?

You can take that as a rhetorical question, since your frontal lobe must have taken a great deal of damage to allow you to type and answer questions correctly.

Humble Chinese

November 27, 2006 2:04 AM

The general Chinese public knew very little about India until the past few years. Most of the knowledge about India came from Bollywood movies which were quite popular during the 70's in China. Most Chinese knew Indians as a friendly people who are poor but very happy. Quite frankly, the image of India among Chinese have deteriorated in recent years when many news about India is unfriendly to China. For example, India publically stated that China's threat was the main reason for her nuclear test in 1998. Was that necessary even if it was true? Looking at the comments on this forum, it's not hard to see the Indian sentiments. If it is only because of the war almost half a century ago, I must say that it was a border conflict that resulted in no loss of actual control of territories by either side, and neither side can claim to be the victim. China lost territories the size of France and Germany combined to Russia during the last two centuries. We don't considered that a reason to be unfriendly to Russia or wishing how Russia should split up and its economy crash into a wall. We signed a treaty with Russia that officially recognized the reality and moved on. If it is for China's human rights and lack of freedom for her own people, then wouldn't it be silly for Indians to fear China since they are convinced that the Chinese system will invariably lead to eventual disaster anyway? If it is for jealousy, then it's even sillier, because no one has yet to successfully wish or talk a country into its surmise. I think Indians, especially the elite group, should have a more mature attitude about China. Cooperation is the only way for the two giant neighbors to succeed.

Vishnu Sreevalsan

November 27, 2006 4:21 PM

I think DaBrownGuy have some serious attitude problems and inferiority complex. Nuke South Africa lol :)) they are one of our most friendly nations.

its people like him who are responsible for all the hostilities in the world....Nutterz....

Shashi

November 28, 2006 6:35 AM

Dear Humble Chinese,
It was great to read your final comment.
(27Nov.'06 02:04am)
A very sensible one I should say.
I am Proud to be Indian at the same time I am open to accept facts.Everyone should be,be it Indian or Chinese.
There are some disturbing things in both countries but there are some very good things which is helping both China and India to progress.
Finally as you said "Co-operation is the only way for two giant neighbors to succeed".

jcage

November 28, 2006 9:31 PM

DaBrownGuy=SmartOpinion?
Well, came back with a different user name.
How are you doing lately?
How is work and life?
Take care
Truly
jcage

from tokyo

November 30, 2006 9:31 PM

interesting to happen read so many comments here, I am chinese in Japan, personally I hope China and India will cooperate and develope in a win-win fashion.

Will read a bit about the war, likely both Chinese and indian (even US) governments might not tell whole truth.

Peace.

shashaxz

December 6, 2006 2:56 AM

No patience to read all the posts.

I only can say to the indian friends, please come to China and have a visit.

China welcomes all the friends.

China and India have a lot of opportunities to cooperate in the coming decades. China also have a lot lessons to learn from India.


War is over, the biggest issue for both China adn india now is to make people become richer.

I hope that there will be any war between the two neighbours.

Chinese people is humility and friendly, it is totally meaningless to argue who is better. That is the game of kids.

I hope that one day China and India can also establish the strong relationship just like EU to develop the international business.

Kevin

December 7, 2006 6:19 AM

hi, chinese taught india a lesson?
yes and no,
yes because india learnt not to quite trust china, as in 1952 chou en lai and nehru just signed a treaty sort of thing called 'panchsheel' or 5 principles or something similar. Well a few years later nehru was back stabbed.Well its not that chinese people are bad, its just that communist governments are not answerable to anyone. So anything can be done and covered up, pretty much like the recent 'human organ stealing', recently highlighted by the BBC(undercover reporters).
china: media is censored, so the poor chinese people are to believe what the government wants them to believe. GOOGLE SEARCH IS CENSCORED IN CHINA!

Why do i say no for the 1st part is that, if china taught india a lesson, why on earth would they agree for a "UNILATERAL CEASEFIRE????"...lol
Well, if you get into the details of the war, you would see why the indian army was pushed back by the chinese, once heavy lift aircraft were provided by the west, the winds changed, understanding this china settled for a unileteral ceasefire

Kevin

December 7, 2006 6:31 AM

regarding chinese industries, it is absolutely true that they are doing well. How?

1. (almost) slave labour.(This is also present in india- but its more in the private sector. Unlike in china, where pretty much the government decides what you get indirectly or directly.
2. The Chinese government is all out to steal technology. This has been shown even in the BBC. Chinese government will deny these claims, but i dont see why the BBC should pick china and not other countries like vietnam or so, WHAT MAKES THIS SO IMPORTANT IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE and not individuals. Please research this to find the grim reality hidden under china's booming industry

Kevin

December 7, 2006 6:37 AM

now, for the topic. Indian companies are privately owned. THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO INVOLVEMENT in companies like infosys etc, but chinese companies are either completely state owned or partly, THIS IS A MATTER FOR CONCERN!!
y? government interests could conflict and therefore to be on the safe side, the indians go for other corporations etc. I dont think there should be hatred between indians and chinese. This has been caused by governments and at heart the chinese may not be as bad as some people portray and vice versa.

vasanth

December 7, 2006 11:40 PM

Yes.I also chinese company Heuwaii is blocked for only security reason as its directly controlled by PLA.I dont know why west takes it a new story.

Did west forgot recent Dubai Port World controlling american ports is bloaced by US Govt.?

Jonathan

December 10, 2006 12:49 PM

Kevin, before you talk about "slave labor" in China (which is false anyway), maybe you should acknowledge the 300,000+ Mumbaikars (including children) who sleep on the streets of Mumbai every night in nothing but the rags they wear. Every morning, hundreds of these people die on the streets and have to be disposed of by special body-disposing trucks.

The situation is even worse for Kolkata and lower-tiered Indian cities.

India's youth (ages 15-24) literacy rate is only 73%, while China's is 98.9%. 55% of Indian women cannot read. What good is your democratic freedoms when you can't even read? Illiteracy = Oppression.

low life china man

December 12, 2006 9:55 PM

Well....we china man will always be the dog in the world. No matter what we do, we r still the low life scum. But we r ok with it, as long as the average china folks r living better life every day. and enuf of this india vs china crap, doesn't do a damn thing to improve either country's living standard. all i know is, poor folks need bread (or rice) in both countries. and i need a millbion bucks...hahaha...let's all say nice thing about each other and stop this shouting game on company hour....peace out...

Proud Indian

December 13, 2006 1:32 AM

Jonathan,

What will you take out of the two following options?

1. A Jail Cell where you will be fed , clothed and will have reading material chosen by the authorities, OR

2.Freedom from the Jail. Here you have to fend for yourself. There is no guarantee that you will always get food and good clothing effortlessly.

After reading your comments I am inclined to think that you will choose the first option.

India is a democracy unlike China. In India there is no restriction for people from villages to migrate to a city. Unlike in China, Indian authorities can not drive away poor people from cities to villages for adding beauty to the cities.
Have you been to Mumbai or any other Indian city where, according to you, "every morning, hundreds of these people die on the streets and have to be disposed of by special body-disposing trucks"? Or did you get this information from any new report? Kindly indicate where you got this information so that I can read this and get enlightened.

It is true that India now lags behind China in literacy, life expectancy, gnp per capita etc. The reason lies in the differenct ruling systems of the two countries. China is an autocracy where the rulers can decide without bothering for the people's wishes what the country should look like, what it should eat, what it should wear, what it should learn, how many children each couple should have etc. India, which is a democracy can not do that.

However, with all its democratic limitations, India is now doing very well and will soon catch up with China. Indian economy is growing at nearly 9 per cent where China is growing at around 10 percent. India is soon going to overtake China as the most populous nation in the world. In the second half of this century India will be the number one nation in the world in gross gdp and china is going to be the second.

paul

December 14, 2006 6:35 AM

Hi,
There is an interesting and informative article which appeared in the Independent, U.K. It was free when it first come out but is placed under premium content now. Perhaps some readers can provide access to a free source.

The link is below:
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article2062379.ece

jcage

December 14, 2006 2:02 PM

Jonathan don't waste your time with these upper caste Indians. They only see from their ivory tower and refuse to see the real problem that India has.
They don't represent the millions and million of Hindus that are starving, naked, homeless, sick and left to die by their government.

These upper caste Hindus only care to keep the status quo by enriching the upper caste while slaving the majority of the population. Their so called democracy is a sham, a fake. It can not and should not compared with the real democracy that exist in the western country or even compared with the one in Asia such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan. India democracy are like the same corrupted democracy seeing in Africa or the poorest country in Latin America.

Vinit

December 18, 2006 2:28 PM

What's the great fuss about? It's good that India is taking care of its own interests.

China has a lot more to loose financially than India if both countries shut trade completely. So keep barking till you turn blue.

Kit

December 22, 2006 9:13 PM

Hey all,
The stuff being posted here is really funny. I am an australian Indian and believe Indians should get over 1962 war, trade is the way to go to reduce conflict and achive decent living and I can see from the posts there is heaps conflict around. India is a free market(or striving to be) and being a chinese company should not be a reason to disqualify a legal business venture but I can also see where Indians are coming from, as you can see even from the American Ports decision against some Dubai company if the strategic interests of trading partners can be conflicting it results in "NO DEAL". If some chinese company is partly owned or operated by chinese army and many borders disputes between china and India are known fact, Indians are bound to be spectical in these deals.

Indians have many lessons to learn from chinese, Ive been to both places and big cities in china are many times more developed than Indian. But as menioned many times before India and China are very very different than each other.
Indians saying being democratic makes them better than chinese cant be more wrong.
The progress made by china is something to learn from, and I believe competition between china and india is healthy for me as a consumer, for people of both countires and the the consumers all around the world.
But I should also say this than I believe in democracy and I've seem from usa ussr experience that free societies tend to do better than in long run, and trust me chinese are smart enough to know this are they are changing were they need to be. But thats my persoanl opinion, in any case I would leave the business people and politions to deal with this.

i think the way to go is for people visiting and having personal contact with each other. Dont let the politions make you believe anything, and well trust me chinese and Indian chics are hot and there are more than a billion of them. And all the ladies here, Bruse lee's and Hritik roshans doest not only exisit in movies go and find yours. Make love and do trade, F*** the war.
Before someone type another line here just think about how many chinese and Indians you know personally and they are biased against you. Well i know heaps and they get along in australia and do business just fine.
So boys and girls go out and have fun rather than spreading hate and ignorance about something and someone you actually know nothing about.

Mahinder Persad

December 26, 2006 5:39 AM

AS a Pakistani I of course wholeheartedly support my Chinese brothers in humiliating the lowely Indian caste ridden, lepracy suffering, head wrap wearing, american ass kissing, special economic zone copying, I wanne-be-a-superpower. India is doing itself a disservice for not allowing the Chinese companies to invest and to build their infrastuctures. Something that we Pakistanis will take full advantage of so that China can help Pakistan surpass India in modernising infrastucture etc. Thank you dumb Indians ha ha haaaaaa

Bira

December 26, 2006 2:56 PM

When people compare India and China, they allways project China as repressive totaliterian regime with deplorable records of human right violations. No one ever mention the human right violation by India. India's human right violation especially in Assam, Manipur, Nagaland, Mizoram, Tripura, Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya etc.. is on a continental scale. When China suppressed the student revolt in Tainamen square, it was against an internal rebellion to change the system and the ruling principles in the Govt.
But the millitery occupation of Assam, Manipur, Nagaland, Mizoram, Tripura, Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya etc..and systematic termination of the people of these countries by all form of restrcition and draconian laws is a continetal crime. A crime wholesale. Since India's occupassion of these countries for the last 5 decades foriegners are not allowed to enter this occupied territory. In the meantime, restrictive, segregative, monopolistic Indian policies and practice have merginalised the people of these countries. While these countries have been subjected to unprecendented isolation in their history, India has been misprojecting this territory as the North Eastern part of India and by installing one of the most corrupted pupped regime in collaboration with some elite families from this territory. The culture, history, attitude, polity, economy even racial origin of the people in this part of the wporld has got nothing to do with that of India.

When will the world wake up to the suffering of these 40 million people under India's occupation of this territory?

Raj

January 11, 2007 12:36 PM

Answer to the following comment posted by some ignorant fool earlier on.

"India a country whose people living in the same condition as the poor people in the sub-saharan region of Africa. I feel sorry for them."

The reason for these poor conditions is courtesy of the white race. They destroyed, looted and stole from us. You and your ancestors exploited every inch of our nation and now you are complaining? HA :) Nice joke. Feel sorry for yourselves first for having exploited other human beings for your own benefit.

Guy, next time, before you talk BS about my country and its poverty, I would recommend that you read up some history and educate yourself about how rich India was prior to occupation by the white race. These kinds of statements being made lately about India and its conditions, by the westerners( and even some asians) are just purely fashionable!!!

India will rise again!! Jai Hind!!!!!

Babu

February 12, 2007 2:40 PM

Hi,

I read through all the crap. We all know china as of now is far ahead of India. I.e as of now. But India is also progressing well.

With respect to human rights, freedom of thoughts, expression Indians live a much better life than chineese .Iam not saying it. It is said by chineese. When i was Central Park, Newyork, group of chinese distributing leaf lets and demostrating how chinese are abused by the chinese government in china. I really felt bad when i went through the leaflets and heard their demonstration. Even today they are there.If you guys want, go to central park and have a look on ur own and go through their leaflets.

India may not become super power but we will definitly be happy than all you chinese.

Hey fellow indians, why we also downgrade ourselves to these chinese agressors. Leave this crap and let us work hard. There is lot of catching up to do and bring our fellow indians out of poverty. Let us see what will happen to those sky scrapers and architecture monuments in china after 2008 olympics. Let us see who lives there and how they are affording to maintain that concrete jungle.

Chinese

February 14, 2007 12:43 AM

People should stop fighting on this blog. China has many problems and we understand it. India has many problems. But that's their problem. We all live on the same earth and we are neighbors. Why need to make things bad?

China's image is distorted by western media for decades. China has many problem but China is a much more "free" country than many foreigners may think. Really, just visit there see for youself. And if you know Chinese, you will see Chinese bloggers aren't afraid of express is anything to their government. Democracy is moving forward in China. That's the fact. It will be unbelievable to think China will change back to culture revolution. China is definately not old Russia. Fight over communism and capitalism is no need. Capitalism will bring a more advance business society. People in Communism will loose motivation for work because anybody is equal. But however, don't bash Communism because ti's purpose is to the give a better life for the poors. People can get real benefit is the real deal.

And India, I love your country, your history. I am proud of the achievement these two countries made. We had a war 40 years ago. But now we are both in our best time in recent centuries, shouldn't we move on and grab the oppertunity to become better countries.

In the end, just let you know for those think maybe I am a Chinese government hired, I am a Chinese university student in the U.S.

David

February 16, 2007 12:08 AM

I think we should re-clarify the two systems in India and China. Democracy in India = Chaos or disorder and dictatorship in China = orgnised or in order. Some Indian think Chinese Gov presses Chinese population to do things that not benefitial them but for face lifting. This is not true. When you are talking about that life is getting better in China you are not talking about a few Gov official but whole population. If whole population get better life, then credit has to partially go to the good governing or orgnising. You can not in one hand admit that China has done a good job to lift population from poverty and in other hand blame Chinese Gov for their suppression. It is not suppression, it is organising and guiding. This is a critical point that Indian Gov and its people do not get it. Indian Gov does not know (or does not have ability) how to orgnise people, especially massive ill-educated people. when democracy in a poor country like India, people do have a freedom to vote and people have right to refuse to move from their home even the move is good for them in long term. However, such individualism, selfishness combining with illitericy will creat disorder and chaos. This is why it is much more difficult to do something meaningful in India than in China. It is nothing political but the ability and willingness to orgnise population to do something for people and their country. India is lack of this sort of capability due to its ill-developed democracy. If you want to develop then put you house in order. The chaos and disorder will get India nowhere. Democracy is good, theoretically, but development is more important when you are poor. In my opinion, democracy is not a guarantee for your Indian to get better life at the moment but a dragging factor for slow development. Think about it my Indian friends.

eman

March 4, 2007 5:16 PM

I like topics such as India Superpower?, IT Superpower etc.

They are more interesting than this one. I really enjoy the world class sleepwalkers and daydreamers of superpower India.

Chao Chee Bye

March 10, 2007 3:25 AM

Slave labour, utter lack of freedom, what litany of sins does red China have that India does not? Indians are sore because they got beat up by China in 1962, their economic growth rates--a source of pride--is overshadowed by China, the IT industry has also lost its erstwhile luster, etc. and etc. What can India do? It can't fight, it can't work, it can't this and that, but it can get jealous. Sour grapes are national produce of India.

India has been "flourishing" as the world's largest democracy since independence. In a post-colonial world, India gathered all its great promise and promptly emptied it into the murky ganges. For such a long time, so little has been produced from one with so much "promise". Long live democracy with Indian characteristics.

If I were Indian, I'd at least try laying claim to being a dictatorship. Then at least, I would have somewhat of an excuse for India's current state. Alas, Indians have no shame and so re-writing history should be easy, even for an Indian. You can thank Geico for that quote.

J

March 16, 2007 6:24 PM

All I want to say is instead of sayin India vs China it should be the people behind these decisions and actions that should be named not the countries because in the end we all are putting the whole race into the scene.

Inferno

March 17, 2007 5:28 AM

Its quite astonishing to see chinese and indians here, blaming each other for something which was happened years ago. We all can learn something better from each other - whether we are indians or chinese. What Nehru did or what Chinese Govt. did is perhaps should not be the part of discussion now. The real topic should be to allow each other to have insight into each other's culture and country.

Indeed, China is progressing far better and it doesnt have to mind India's reluctance towards business ventures. A common citizen of any country is usually drived by its government or media, who was at mistake at that time - Chinese or Indian, doesnt make any sense now.

I agree India is a wonderful democratic country but perhaps people are not able to enjoy the fruits of being in largest democracy. Again the issue is ignorance of Indians against Indians..
The world may see India as poor, insecure or whatever kind of country but its all true that its the ONLY country which has got rich diversification in terms of religion, culture, people and languages. Its not easy to maintain integrity, progress and survival for so many years.

Saying that does not mean China is great or bad country. Thinking about democracy, world still consider that an average person in China does not have a voice to raise against government but despite of that what matters most is that its government has done wonders for its country.

South Asian region can be a better place if Indians and Chinese are willing WITHOUT being trapped in CONFLICTS and useless ALTERCATIONS..

J

March 18, 2007 6:14 AM

response to shashaxz and from tokyo

I agree with both of u. Fighting will not solve everything. In the end we all are Asians, unity is something we all need to learn.

Centros

March 22, 2007 2:35 PM

I must be crazy because I'd spend about one hour to read all the posts.I am a native Chinese living in Guangzhou.I'm not going to enroll myself into this debate.

But who say China drive the poor to build the city should look at these images:
http://news.qq.com/a/20070310/000705.htm
Perhaps you cannot understand Chinese, you must know what happend in Today's China. "Nobody drive anyone, people leave their old home because they receive enough money." In above story, the poor asked for 4,000,000yuan, but the businessman can only provided 2,000,000.

I don't care which country will win, what I care is my life. From 2007, China started its "Free Education "for all the children who live in towns and villages.I don't mind what the political system is, what I do mind is whether the govt is responsible for me.

The skimble-skamble controversy brings nothing. China find its own way to go head,so does India
.

Centros

March 22, 2007 2:45 PM

As a Chinese, I hope Indian will be rich as soon as possible because that will lead a bull market of commodities, I hold some corp and soybean futures.

Vinay Emani

April 12, 2007 3:41 PM

I will give my two cents on this topic. I study in a top notch university in the country. I agree that China is way ahead of India in economic and social development. God, I am ashamed of my political system which is the most corrupt in the world. We are battling very high levels of poverty. But there is still hope, we can catch up with the world in 30-40 years. If you ask 100 middle class indians about their lives in the past 15 years, you will get the real impression of India. In another 40 years, we will hopefully be a developed nation.

DMP

April 23, 2007 6:57 AM

Hey u chinese yuckers, We will show this world that we are indeed the super power, you produce more products that are not even worth a peny, you have the worst quality in this universe,

Celestial Emperor

May 1, 2007 9:20 PM

Indians get over your inferiority complex.All you Indians post is nonsense and lies and when you run out of nonsense and lies you resort to racial slurs against Chinese people.This only proves that your nation is third rate,hopeless and totally beyond redemption.

China is already a superpower thats why even the USA asks for China's help in resolving the problem with N.Korea and Sudan.Just imagine anybody asking lowly India's help in dealing with countries half a world away.Indians live in a world of fantasy and delusion and simply refuse to face reality that India is no match for China and is not worthy of being considered a competitor of China.India is just an overpopulated fourth world country that is doomed to failure forever.

It is understandable why Indians have such a deep rooted inferiority complex.India was continuously invaded,subjugated and humiliated by countless waves of foreign invaders since day one.

China doesn't need to trade or have any other kind of close partnership with an insignificant dump like India.Indians are living in a world of make believe if they think that China considers India a challenger.China does not attach that much importance to India and neither does any other country.It is just delusional Indians who day dream that China takes India seriously.China is more interested in forging closer ties with significant world powers like Russia,Japan,Europe and the two Koreas.India is just a microscopic blip on China's radar at best.Just because China makes a diplomatic gesture towards India doesn't mean that China accepts India as superpower.

The conceit of these Indians is both contemptable and laughable at the same time.Indians behave like the wretched beggar pretending to be a prince.Look here Indians!! China doesn't give a damn about your pathetic market.If you wanna shut out Chinese companies then go ahead.China can show India the finger anyday.

Bruce Lee

May 2, 2007 8:54 PM

Why India prevents Chinese companies from doing business in India is quite obvious.Indian companies simply cannot compete in a level playing field and need this kind of protectionism to keep them afloat.Indian products are third class and could never compete against foreign products including the ones from China.

Apart from the mentioned reason,India is a very insecure nation.Indians still haven't gotten over the trauma of defeat at the hands of China in 1962.Well serves you Indians right for provoking China into war and now Aksai Chin belongs to China and there is nothing you can do about it apart from posting meaningless and buffoonish trirades against China and Chinese people.I can't help laugh my guts out at the very thought of a nation like India that has existed for most of it's long history as a slave to foreign masters make tall claims about being number one in the world very soon.

Indians never tire of barking at "oppression,lack of freedom and use of slave labour" in China yet conviniently ignore the even worse oppression and slave like conditions that are brought about by the grinding poverty and the inhuman caste system in India.Shamelessely talk about sweatshops and slave labour in China while ignoring the fact that India has the highest population of child labourers in the world where working conditions and pay are far more appalling than all the "sweatshops" in China put together.India will never develop because Indians will make sure of that themselves.

Keep on dreaming Indians!! Keep dreaming that India will become superpower soon.Even your own prime minister Manmohan Singh has openly admitted that India needs the world's help to emerge as a global power.No nation in history has ever emerged as a superpower by kissing ass but it seems India wants to be the first.

Hu Singh

May 4, 2007 11:35 PM

Ok .. gentlemen & ladies ( if there any) .. what has these comments section come down to .. Indians and chinese hatemail .. I am an indian by birth,nationality etc .. i recently went to china on a business trip and i can assure all my fellow indians on this current (hate mail train) that china is surely light years ahead of india in terms of economic development ..i think that part is settled ..

for all those so called chinese and surely americans on this . it is apt to compare india and china .. both were on the same boat in the 70's and both countries are striving to develop and maybe try to recapture their ancient so called glory .. allow me to say something here .. i am a firm believer in the capitalist slogan .. 'you are as good as your last quarter' so what matters is what you do now .. china is ascending and believe it or not so is india .. difference if you look at india's development.. it is very internal consumption based for the most part .. most of the so called new jewels are companies started by entreprenaurs not born with a silver spoon .. that says something about a country which opened it's doors to the world only about 16 yrs ago .. am not going to discuss wars since it is long done and it is time to move on to more important topics ..the future for india ..we can pick a page or two from china .. china also can pick a page or two from india .. the chinese economic imbalances will be corrected at some point .. part of adopting a free market system ..they might feel the pain but they will prevail .. simple logic i.e. any party that wild has to wind down to a more sustainable,steady growth.. believe me it will affect every nation worth a trader's salt when china achieves a soft landing including india .. it is in the rest of the world's interest that china achieves a soft landing and that includes india as well ..india's on the other hand is already used to economic imbalances because of a more open currency floating system ..when india starts to modernise it's infrastructure .. that will happen shortly i hope.. it is a country that can give a much stiffer challenge from a economic perspective .. it's companies are more frugal and hence more efficient ..let's stop all this nonsense about indo-china webwars and try to educate ourselves how to learn from each other to improve our people's lives .. we are in the threshold of a imminent change in the world economic order .. if anything at all,the customer is always the king .. hence the country that provides the largest market in the world will always lead .. america i might add a little bit sheepishly is the example ..( in addition to being innovative of course) ..india and china because of sheer numbers have to opportunity but only if they believe in themselves and rise over juvenile sillyness .. b/w i thought it was interesting that there quite a few americans here or so it seems that seems to love this indo-china web war .. something to think about ..

Celestial Emperor

May 6, 2007 2:56 PM

If India and Indian companies are scared of competition from China then let the Indians keep their worthless market to themselves.China is being welcomed in every other part of the world with open arms.India is not an attractive or important market at all and doesn't deserve China's attention so China doesn't need put up with bratty Indian attitude which is insecurity in disguise.

When Chinese leader Hu Jintao went to Saudi Arabia on an official visit,he was welcomed at the Aramco complex by Mandarin speaking Saudis so Hu didn't even need to have an Arabic interpretor with him.China is set to overtake the USA as the largest importer of oil and all other petroleum products very soon.This proves how much importance the largest producer of oil attaches to China and it also proves China's growing influence on the world stage,compare this with putrid shithole India.Do you think anybody bothers about India and Hindi? It is only the day dreaming Indians who think that they are at the top of the world.

India needs Chinese markets much more than China needs Indian markets.China can reciprocate India's unfriendly and unfair behaviour by evicting all Indian companies from China.Just see how Wipro,Infosys,Satyam and all the other Indian companies will come begging on their hands and knees to be allowed to do business in China.

India shining?? BAH HUMBUG!! Next to the Chinese supernova the Indian star is nothing more than a tiny point of light.

sharath krishna

May 9, 2007 11:13 PM

I am an india with many close chinese friends .I am living in india and my internet connection provided by bsnl is connect with huawei modem(bsnl supplies these modems with connections). Motorola got the tender because it bided lower than huawei(I may be wrong). Who are we the common citizen of two third world countries(India and China), we are not the policies makers. So why fight over this. India and China has its own problems. Each has some merits and demerits.These comparision you all are making is not a math paper which can be evaluated and awarded marks.
So come guys and gals become mature and help each other to become better than what we all are now.
This is my humble suggestion. I did not post this to start a fighting deblt. If you like this comment, think about it and if you didnt like it go on with your war in this forum.

sharath krishna

May 9, 2007 11:18 PM

An additions to my last post. I'd like to remind all of you(the readers) that country,regilions and colour is secondary. All human being in this world have red colour blood even though there are different skin colours. So grow up guys and gals.

Drew Smith

May 13, 2007 9:09 PM

Some of the indian viewers mentioned the brief 1962 border war as the burden of doing business with China. If that view is also shared by Indian leadership, I would think India is hopeless. That country can never move forward.

While that war should have been avoided and regretted by both sides, there is nothing you can do to reverse it. Like many other historical disputes, there is really no right or wrong on either side. The bottom line is that india is the one that got humuliated. China was more forgiving because it came out on top. For that we should all symposize with indian people.

India can learn a thing or two from China. China was humiliated by Japan during WW2 and suffered a great deal more. Today, Japan is one of the largest trading partners of China (China is Japan's #1 trading country). China may not be a perfect example, as they have totally forgotten or forgiven the past. How about Germany and Israel?

My Indian friends used to tell me that India is an open system, but with people having closed minds. India cannot be a superpower if its people are narrow-minded.

Just my 2 cents

khalid rehman

May 20, 2007 2:12 PM

India may be different from Pakistan in some ways but on average is just like Pakistan. Apart from the rampant corruption,third rate services,high illiteracy,high unemployment,too much poverty,filth,overcrowding and chaotic/hopeless conditions,there are other similarities between the two such as friction between different groups based on religion,caste or ethnicity.Both societies practice a high level of bigotry,intolerence and backwardness.

Chris Weiner

May 24, 2007 2:03 PM

An Indian friend told me last year, during a conversation when the India/China comparison was brought up, that his country's population was going to surpass China's very soon. He seemed rather proud of it.

Now, having lived in both countries, I was very bewildered by his pride. Is this the only statistical citation for which certain Indians are proud? Remember that the Chinese government took great pains (and is still suffering from it) in trying to bring population down while raising living standards for the individuals.

The average middle-class Chinese I've seen all over China - cities, suburbs, villages - are living much more freely than their Indian counter-parts because of their economic freedom, and frankly most of them are not interested in the ten or so political issues that their government censors. If I were an average middle-class Indian (without an inflated nationalist mindset), I would opt for living in China.

And if I were an Indian resident comparing merchandises produced by companies of different national origins, I'd opt for the cheapest one with the most reliability. Whether or not that's Huawei doesn't matter... The Europeans are buying and using Huawei products, and the Chinese army doesn't seem to have infiltrated into the European military establishment.

Alberto

May 25, 2007 9:23 PM

I have one comment on both Indian and Chinese:

Could you please take your third world politics somewhere else? Don't make this nasty here. We don't have time for this. Specially Indians, you guys bark all around the internet. I really feel you guys have inferiority complex, even compares to Chinese. We all know China is a poor country but no comparison with India. I have been in both China and India as a financial analyst. China have to go long to feed its 1.2 billion people and distributes the wealth to the mass people. India, I don't even see any hope at this moment.

Please think, work hard and try to do something for your country. You can talk all day long but at the end truth is both of your countries are even poorer than Thai or even Malaysia. The total GDP or GNP is one thing and per head GNI is another thing. A nation's per head GNI indicates the real distribution of wealth. Now you both have high score in IQ, right? Go and find it.

Ralph

May 28, 2007 7:12 PM

Alberto, you should be doing some homework of your own. Though you are right about China still having a long way to go as far as equitable distribution of wealth and per capita income are concerned but when it comes to feeding each and everyone of it's 1.3 billion citizens, China has already succeeded. Even the poorest in China have access to 3 decent meals everyday. And ofcourse you are right about India which boasts of having a handful of billionaires like Azim Premji and hundreds of millions of destitute who go to sleep with an empty stomach every second day.

passerby

June 6, 2007 3:18 PM

I came from Hong Kong and my view is probably different. I think China want to advance, but I don't think she will like the replay of cold war with U.S. So, having India, EU and Russia being strong as counter weights might not be a bad thing.

Second, both China and India are growing at ~10% and ~8% each year. So, they will eventually become big power. Who cares who will be there first. They both will be there soon enough if we are not cook by global warming first.

gayathri

June 13, 2007 1:17 AM

oh no when wil tis fight stop?it is true that china is much ahead than india n US is much more ahead in economical aspects.why do u people compars n throw mud each other??. n u fellow Americans,think abt millions of people lost their life due to US attacks.....and u my indian brothers,if u cat accept chineese as brother y r u yelling about history of our country in glory? while thinkin about comments of that south african,,hw absurd one can ever. yea its not necessary that everyone shouid use brain to think corretly. he dnot even know t history of south africa i he really know nothin about Gandhi i iam sure. Gandhi was such a great soul. i never say Nehru was a perfect man n took rightpolitical decisions even if he did many good things to India n he owned many virtues. my dear chineese friends n fellow indians..... i knw u people r movin on 4 economic liberty n prosperity. its better to show ur patriotism by working hardly,thinkin creatively.v should accept n respect,n others.afteral wat ever our colour or creed may be, wat ever our gdb rate or social status may be..... vr al same as v r al humanbeings(at least everyone agrees that point right)lets not waste our time n whoever v r-Indian,pakistani,chineese or american,what ever v have,-just a penny or crores;just a cyclon,flood or sunami can take wat ever v have so better light up our minds with love and virtues.... (

Johann Colt

June 14, 2007 6:39 AM

It serves the Chinese right. They have a tendency to break signed accords. They spread nuke tech to Pakistan after signing the NPT. And are likely doing the same to Iran now. They support the most egrerious regime of North Korea. They regularly bully their smaller neighbours in South East Asia. India has done the right thing by refusing to trust them.

Chris Lofton

June 16, 2007 1:23 PM

Indian jingoism is indeed very hilarious. All talk about how India will overtake China and become superpower blah blah blah blah without any concrete plan to make that happen and there are some (not all) really stupid westerners like Americans who buy into this India Shining crap. The reality is that India's so called Tech boom is nothing more than a white collar sweatshop catering to foreign clients for a small fraction of the cost that these companies would have to incurr if the work was done back home and the internet has made it possible to communicate over long distances in real time. Only 1 million people i.e. less that 1% of India's total workforce is employed in India's IT industry and that means it ain't a poverty destroyer. Sure India shows impressive growth figures but the poverty growth rates are just as impressively high. Most of India is illiterate and cannot read or write and cannot benefit from service oriented jobs that require literacy. Many foreign investors have shaken their heads in disbelief at india's derelict infrastructure that cannot keep up with India's growth. Rampant corruption, poverty (much worse than China's), overpopulation, caste and religious friction, AIDS and a host of other negative factors will in the long run cause India rather than China to go bust and democracy ain't gonna help.

Indians who predict China's fall should heed an old Chinese proverb that says BEWARE WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

By the way I am neither Indian or Chinese and I am not siding with anyone. Sure China also has a lot of problems to solve before truly being able to stride the world like a superpower but atleast the Chinese are realists and don't get carried away with childish fervor or boast and brag about their countrymen's achievements (whether actual or imagined) non-stop like the Indians. Just sick of all this shining India crap specially from the hoardes of Indian immigrants landing up in the west by hook or by crook.

YinduAsan

June 17, 2007 2:19 PM

Indians are the most impotent but self-hyping, and evil bunch.

Asahi Tanashi

June 24, 2007 3:35 AM

I am neither Chinese or Indian and find these postings to be very interesting. I wanted to find out if the above sentiments are shared amongst my many Chinese friends and interestingly of the 6 random Chinese that I asked, NOT a single one of them cared at all to even waste a moment talking about India's whining and bashing of China. Some of them didn't even know that such a thing was happening and were quite surprised and some even laughed at it. Furthermore, through my numerous business gatherings outside of Asia when the topic of Asian markets or economics comes up, China followed by Japan,South Korea, Taiwan are almost always the topic of conversation. I think the average Chinese can care less what Indians or India as a whole even thinks of them when they and the whole world knows that they are well ahead of them economically and militarily. I think the Chinese are doing a remarkable economic job much like the Japanese in the 60's and 70's.

Indian guy

July 2, 2007 9:39 AM

We Indians dont want bussiness with CHINA.
Most Indians I talked to is of similar openion.
You have given nuclear weapon to pakistan.
You want to do bussiness with India is just to
screw India, by spying and sabotage. See you
are dictator state which has full control over
people and we are a pathetic democratic state
where anyone can spy and do any hell.

Why do chinese want to do bussiness with INDIA.
Leave India, have good bussiness with WEST.
KICK OUT WIPRO AND INFOSYS from china..
Thats a good move..
BUT WE DONT WANT ANY CHINESE IN INDIA. PERIOD.

Dragon Fire

July 4, 2007 8:26 PM

We Chinese don't want you Indians in our country either, pack up and get out of Hong Kong and other parts of China. China belongs to the Chinese.

Just to point out Indian hippocracy: Hundreds of Indians living in HK have applied for Chinese citizenship with more following. Why the hell all these Indians want to stay forever in China if India is so much better as claimed by untruthful Indian braggerts?

Chinese are not desperate to do business with crappy India when the rest of the world wants to do business with China. India has nothing to offer China other than more unwanted Indian immigrants.

China is a much better country than your brahminic slave colony. Why would Chinese bother to screw India when it is already so screwed up thanx to Indians themselves. China does not even need to bother about India as Pakistan can nuke India.

Hao Yun Lai

July 5, 2007 6:01 AM

Well sorry to note that all this discussion is getting hotter and off the main rail track of progress and wisdom.

Well let us all be proud of Asia and the way the hard working people in China and India have contributed to make a better world as we see today, lending a positive hope of all the sincere efforts leading to a much better world of tomorrow.

Well one thing is sure that none of us do what we say, take for example: those who say we do not believe in God or do not worship, turn out to be true believers in their deeds of being more caring for humans (humanity is God), more dedicated and hard workers (work is worship)
and now take those who strongly say they believe in God and never forget to worship Him, these in deeds turn out to do just the opposite by being very unkind to fellow brothers, old parents etc, and further being very lazy in the name of God, what a contrast, both of the categories are in the same boat when it comes to not doing what they say.
Now the matter to look into is whose deeds made a difference in the new world order of today? If deeds are progressive then that is what it counts, not the lips service. So let us not go by what is being said, but by what is actually being done on the zero ground level?

Surely we stand out to learn from the hard working and more human caring persons to move faster in the direction of improving the living standards and total progress of living with best all around developments, say the need of the hour is; to have continuous power supply maintained, better roads, bridges, railway tracks to be builds, all around better structures to be constructed, respect for the right of women to work shoulder to shoulder with men, why are not there many women in the hospitality sector? as taxi drivers? even the Emirates had made special pink and red taxis driven by women to cater to the need of women passengers, all this is the need of the hour, so why we slow down ourselves by naming a particular country as good or bad?

Really there is no time to waste and so much to do to prove our traditional culture of humanity and being one of the best host to visitors to our country. We need to be able to smile from within and warmly welcome in the most loving guesture our guests whom once upon a time we learnt to treat as godly guests with the presence of whom we shall be blessed.

Long live the Countries blessed with warmth, smile, humbleness and great hospitality and at the same time equally determined to work hard and clear any hurdles on the path to progress. Amen!!

square

July 5, 2007 7:01 AM

Peace!!!

Dragon Fire was just too emotional...

we chinese welcome our friends from all over the world, of course, Indians are included.

and besides, we do think that there are far more things to do between the two great countries than just spitting frire at each other.

We are friends, and we can thrive together!

As it is widely accepted that exchange of business and thoughts are mutual beneficial.

I hope indian friends here can show your good will.

Mojo

July 8, 2007 3:44 PM

I can only hope that posters like Indian guy and Dragon Fire represent a small fraction of their respective populations. Unfortunately, even if they represent just the extreme 10%, they can still be an impediment for India and China to cooperate effectively in situations where cooperation is sorely needed. So, under the assumption that the Indian guys and Dragon Fires of this world are not totally beyond reason, this post is for them.

The recent WTO negotiations are a perfect example of how Brazil, China, and India can all benefit immensely if we band together and speak with one voice. Just a decade ago, the developed world, primarily the US and EU, screwed countries like India and China by railroading trade agreements that allowed the rich countries to continue their insane agricultural subsidies and effectively shut out the developing-world farmers. Yet, the poor countries were expected to open up their economies to the manufactures of the rich countries. During the current rounds of WTO negotiations, the representatives from the “emerging economies” are making a valiant effort to resist being forced to accept an unjust trading framework. This resistance can only work if countries like India, China, and Brazil are able to cooperate with each other.

I think we can all agree that we want the disadvantaged in our respective countries to be able to get ahead, even at the expense of having to set aside our prejudices toward other peoples. If we can’t do this, we would only deserve the ill-will we cast on each other. If Indians and Chinese can manage to stop throwing arrows at each other, perhaps we can at the very least manage to erase the smug grin Bruce Einhorn wears when writing his endless stream of India vs. China articles.

Andrew

July 26, 2007 5:22 AM

China was built by the blood of her millions. Check your history, life has always been cheap in China. India could have gone that route and would have had all the gleaming skyscrapers that China has but she values lives even if it meant that her people would remain in poverty longer than the Chinese. If all the millions who died in the great purges of chairman Mao were alive today I'm sure they would choose a life of poverty than no life at all (or the gleaming skyscrapers in Beijing).

Aaron

July 26, 2007 10:31 PM

I am with Andrew on this one.
I would rather be poor and have my dignity repected than be rich and be forced to do something i don't want to and be treated as a entity.

P.S I am not a China hater

From China, with love

July 27, 2007 12:10 PM

Andrew and Aaron, history is history, every single country has her own skeletons in the closet. I am not sure where you two are from, and I will not start to rant about your country ( be it India or Nepal).

Fact is, you guys have a very twisted view of China. People are not forced to do anything in this era. You guys really should visit China or at least read more! Reading, education is the key to bring some light to your life.

Average Chinese people have a lot more dignity than you would like to believe. And poor people in China are just, well, poor, they are no untouchables. Their children have the same opportunity as everyone else.

Charles Drake

July 29, 2007 1:42 AM

It's quite interesting to see that a great number of people are debating the China-India war. I personally believe its our great Britain that royally screwed you two. Take the China-India border war, do you really think that the british maps were drawn correctly. Its no wonder that India believes it was correct in occupying territory that China believed was there. Indians, if China really wanted India, do you think it would have stopped when it basically conquered India? Seriously, Indians should really stop the chest thumping when you see what Japan did to China, Korea, Phillipines, or what the Germans did to the Jews, do you really think the Chinese were trying to take over India? This is quite comical, but unfortunately that is how the majority of Indians think. Quite seriously, I've found that Indians have a democracy but its hypocritical as what good is a "democracy" when you have 800 million people in poverty, racist hindus tearing down muslim and buddhist temples while killing sikhs, terrorist/assasins bombing railroads, protectionist governments preventing american/british, chinese and japanese companies from competing in local markets, caste system, hiv/aids prostitution, pollution and sanitation issues. Even Russia would be considered a better run democracy then India. I hope the next 20 years, India really understands what a democracy is and demostrates that the rule of law and freedom is far all people, even the poor. I despise Brahmans and other Indians who believe in this 6000 year tradition. Sure, its been around longer than democracy but that doesn't mean its right. The future of India lies in helping your own people, all people, not just the top 2%. My hope is that India prevails by being not only a IT leader but a leader in the environment and helping its own people who are in poverty.

Charles

July 29, 2007 4:14 PM

Why do indians always bash China? I wonder if the typical Chinese person even have India in the radar. If every Chinese person in the world could speak and read english and understood that Indians believe the following:

1. Indians are smarter, more entrepreneurial, better at project management and language skills (hmm, the Chinese are among the most entrepreneurial in the US, EU, Africa, Japan, Korea, Russia, Brazil, just about anywhere, where's Indians beside US/UK?).
2. Have better business acumen when relating to customers and can see the big picture (hmm, the Chinese is the US's second largest trading partner but somehow they don't know a thing or two about business?).
3. Have the biggest democracy and therefore more freedom and better life style versus bastard Communist (was India not Communist at one point?).
4. That Chinese are sneaky and take shortcuts (and that's why China focus on infrastructure?).
5. That the Chinese government lie about gdp stats (hmm with all the slums you have India, are you sure your gdp is 9%).
6. That the Chinese are not welcomed in India b/c they might takeover Indian jobs (case of Huawei, Haier).
7. That India is a just country unlike tyrannical China (that's why India plots bombs and kill pakistans, kashmirs, sikhs, bangladesh, tamils).
8. That India can leap over China the next 20 yrs since it started reforms late (no infrastructure, no repatriots helping the country, corrupt politicians, caste system, chaotic pollution/sinatation, male dominated).
9. That Chinese are evil and tried to take over India (Japan massacred over 10mln Chinese/Korean, Germany killed 5mln jews, both conquered and occupied over long periods, did China do this?).

Lastly Indians, you should know that of all other countries, China is most like you (old culture, family structure, entreprenerial, population and environment issues). Instead of constantly fighting, you should make peace and work with China to make the world a better place.

Khalsa

September 9, 2007 12:46 PM

I am Indian. I have nothing against the chinese. And I think my fellow indians on here should also have nothing against them. We have work to do and a nation to build. We must do what we have to do and be known it the world for our principles and our high thinking. Putting anyone down only makes us weaker. We should look at our problems and fix them. Build a society based on democracy and justice.
Once we have done this we will be years ahead of anyone. We are not here to compete we are here to improve and strengthen ourselves. That is when we will earn the respect of our fellow humans...
join me and lets build a better world...by building a better india

Jai Hind

secret33.com

September 11, 2007 8:26 PM

China and Japan are Indian's formidable competitors, so the Indians are wise in restricting Chinese economic investments in India.

The Chinese should know that.

They should be making economic forays into parts of the world where they have less competition like Africa and South America.

Can you imagine if the African and Arab countries decide to stop doing business with Europe and America and stop supplying them with all the raw materials and resources they need for their industries?

Can you imagine what will happen to European and American industries?

You should.

Because in the future, the Africans are going to wake up and know that Europeans and Americans are not their friends and don't wish them well, despite all their appearances to the opposite.

And naturally, they would see that they must boycott them and begin to deal with the Chinese and Indians.

At least the Chinese and Indians have never enslaved the Africans or infected them with aids or Ebola viruses.

When Africans, Arabs and South Americans cut off the supplies of raw materials and resources needed by the Europeans and Americans for their industries, can you imagine what would happen to their economies? I think you can.

America is headed for a bleak future, a future where the Indians and Chinese would take over all the raw materials and industrial resources from Africa, Arab world and South America and be able to dominate in both technology and business globally, thereby forcing American and European industries to cascade into the black hole of oblivion.

jap_guy

September 11, 2007 11:43 PM

i think like this:
china= bruce lee. while
india= the buddha.

who is better? you decide.

most japanese like both china and india.

menokki

September 13, 2007 9:35 AM

to charles?

when do indians bash chinese? i have not seen one instanve of indians starting it first. when comparison comes (and most times it comes from people who want to stir trouble) the Chinese are always protest.

If Indians do talk about themselves it always about themselves and with no comparsions. But I notice the Chinese dont like to see even that. So what are we supposed to do.

Keep quiet? Not be confident of ourselves?
If the Chinese dont like that, then dont read the reports.

Can anyone here point me to one site which says that Indians are superior to Chinese?

If anything we praise the Chinese and say how fast they are catching up with the Indian IT

Matt

December 20, 2007 11:37 AM

Note to Menokki: It appears you haven't been reading the posts here. Overwhelmingly, Indians are bashing the Chinese. Even in the news and news-related articles this happens. But the reverse is not true. When was the last time you saw or heard a Chinese official bash India or Indians?

Go back to India

February 25, 2008 9:03 PM

Go back to India!

A Malik

April 14, 2008 9:45 AM

Of course India is the world's largest democracy. Can you imagine the US electing as their president that wasn't born in the country itself or a non- Christian? In fact, this would be unconstitutional.

India elected a woman (Sonia Gandhi, an Italian woman) as its Prime Minster, but she renounced it of her own accord. It currently has a PM from a community that only represents a tiny minority of the country and had a Muslim presidnet, also a minoruty of the population.

It is often the way it works. Democratic and capitalist societies take longer to make economic improvement for the whole of the population because of less government intervention.

Just to give you an example of how much of a dictatorship China is, you only have to look at them interfering with what most other people would consider trivial matters like blocking YouTubea nd censoring Western Media. The grip China has on its people is so tight, its almost unbearable for the people.

Having said all that, I respect Chin in the way it has become such an economic power in such a short time.

There is no doubt that both India and China will become the richest nations in the world in the next 40-50 years. I suspect a lot of jealousy from our American friends.

I think its wonderful to have three of the world's biggest ecomonies, China, Japan, India all in close proximity. its great for the whole region.

Ravi

August 10, 2008 12:50 AM

I am an Indian who lived in China for several years. I am in a position to give an unbiased view of China from an Indian perspective.

I lived and worked in Guangzhou from 1998-2006 on behalf of a well known multinational firm. Anything that could go wrong in my daily routine went wrong. People needed the simplest instructions to do basic things. I speak Chinese reasonably well for a foreigner, but even when I spoke the language, it was no use. I might as well have been speaking to them in Russian or French. My Chinese staff was extremely incompetent and this was the best available from the talent pool. They would always make silly mistakes and never pay attention. The people we did business with never respected deadlines and always wanted to do things their way only. I had never seen such ignorance and lack of basic common sense among the people. I'd be lucky if I came across 1 or 2 people in a month who had a basic understanding of how commerce in the normal world works. The people in China generally had little understanding of western standards. Sometimes when a stupid mistake was made by a Chinese guy, I wasnt sure if it was a language barrier or if he was just plain stupid!

Most of my clients were also doing business with India and although India's appearance and infrastructure is inferior to China's, most of them preferred to work with India. People in India have an understanding of Western business practices. They understand Western standards. And Indians are much more humble. Internet is not censored. These attributes about India actually made India a more pleasant place for them to go and do business. China may have the hardware. This can be built anytime with money. India has the software. The software cannot be bought overnight. With time we will have the money to build up our physical infrastructure. Then we will be able to offer the best of our country to the world.

So dear Chinese friends, the idea of a society being advanced by having tall buildings and wide highways is not the only criteria of development. The great cities of London or Paris do not have tall skyscrapers or fancy gimmicks. They are cities that have evolved with time and aged like fine wine. Chinese cities look like they're on steroids. We know you only want foreigners to see the gleaming cities of Beijing and Shanghai and gloat about your so called advancement. The conditions in many areas of China are not much better than India. I've travelled throughout China and I know the facts.

China's development model will not work for India. We have our own model to follow and we are making progress. Most Indians would never want to trade places with Chinese. The "starving masses" in India that Chinese netizens talk about are a thing of a long gone past. Please ask CCTV to update their footage of India. Indians are confident and today acquiring global companies. One of our private airlines "Jet Airways" is comparable to Singapore Airlines. Chinese airlines are the worst in service quality. We have private companies that are globally competitive and need no help from the government.

It doesnt matter whose development model is better. The result we all want is to raise the living standards of the people of our respective countries. So Dear Chinese, despite your appearance of being a developed country, dont forget that you are still a developing country with many problems to solve. You Chinese solve your problems, and we'll solve ours.

Michelle

August 11, 2008 2:44 PM

Diversity?

jeff

August 11, 2008 10:15 PM

@Ravi

Listen to the latest indian reply i gotta LMAO at the make up story.

cmon..the way u write a blind fool know you are so emotional, phew talk about backwardness.

let me ask u, how many times ppl have to tell you indians that u dun need to put down others so u can feels good. it seem like it falls on deaf ears. most stupid is u have to put down those which is so obviously better of than u and its not even true, u have to make up story for it.

malaysian

August 11, 2008 10:48 PM

it kidda strange seeing the mentality of some of the indians here despite that countless of critics from both asian and the west directed at them.

if you notice some of the comments here (in fact alot of comments in BW) written to criticise india is not chinese, a portion of it is from the west, africa or even muslim and pakistani themselves. YET, the indian dicarded all these comments and continues to build a wall of bigotry and make up stories to bad-mouth the chinese. I find the indians mentality is simply "dun know wat to say".

as for 1962,point here is, china, US, Japan, Germany, Russia and Europe fought a WW. the scale involve, the sacrifice, the casualties, the inhumanity is something 100 times greater than 1962 and YET these countries can get themselves back and build their nation and still work together letting their economic flows and gain the respect of the world. The wisdom here is why india especially the Indian media and politicians always dwell in 1962.

cant u indians see the wisdom here..cmon dun let ur pride and emotions over-rule u. have u not ever asked urself y china and japan can do business so well and their ppl can integrate with each other with no problem despite fightin a major world war. and its a major war in world war 2. compared to india? cmon the 1962 is just a border war...the scale is not even world war and yet u ppl cannot let go?

dun want to look at the orients, look at pakistan, ur own ppl (sort off). the distrust and hatred is so obvious. why? look at nepal, sri lanka, bangladesh. nepal and pakistan is more closer to china than to india. why?

china has become like their boogeyman. has the 1962 event strike so much fear into the indian physce that china now has become like a monster, a boogeyman in their worst nitemare. is the indian so weak and undiscipline so selfish as they really need some sort of a monster to scare them? to motivate them? to drive them to move forward with fear? huh? with fear? cmon... its kind like childrens where parents need to constantly reminds them if they dun behave the boogeyman will come and teach them a lesson.

from all the commenst coming from the indian sides its we all can know why there is a 1962 and why india is still what it is today. just look at their mentality!!

HC

August 12, 2008 1:50 AM

Ravi,
It really sounds like you need to practice your Chinese before getting fired because nobody understands you. You may think you speak Chinese better than the locals, but that doesn't matter much since you are the only one who can't communicate with others.

AP

August 24, 2008 11:46 AM

As an Indian, I was greatly disturbed by the fact that so many of our soldiers were killed in the war on orders of Mao. I had been impressed by socialism as a student. However when I later learned that Mao killed tens of millions of his own people (Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward etc..), much more than what Japanese did to Chinese I realised how much evil socialism and communism, Mao was. India too has it's share of people believing in Maoism who create bloodshed wherever they go.

1962 is over now and it should be forgotten by both sides especially Indians. Border disputes should be resolved through talks. I was particularly impressed by way a dispute was resolved with Japan recently.

China still follows Communism in principle, though it has adopted free market reforms (in 1978 or 79 , against 1990-date in India) , which has enabled it to greatly remove poverty. So that's good for them. We can not follow all of their policies but can greatly learn from them.

As far as main topic is concerned, I think Indian Govt. was justified in not allowing Huawei on national security grounds as it is controlled by PLA and Govt. Second issue is that PLA and Chinese Govt is a major ally of our not so friendly neighbour, Pakistan. This will always be a major factor for bidding in sensitive projects. Thirdly Telecom is still treated as a sensitive issue in India.Even to get a wireless license, you have to approach Govt. of India!I bet China will react in same way if Indian cos. bid for China's sensitive projects! There are many other areas to cooperate, so let's do it.

sangos

September 21, 2008 5:13 PM

Whew! Interesting forum this one..with lots of info..(acrimonious including mud slinging) but good to know the details of such a international exchange, rich with peoples thoughts..Keep the speak going guys..good stuff!

Richard

December 24, 2008 11:21 PM

My two cents worth on a sunny glorious X’mas morning trying to sum up the comments I had read and I did browse through most of them:
1. India and China are both developing and one is far/further(?) ahead of the other
2. Acknowledging ones weakness is a 1st step to improving one self. Same applies to nations. Most Indians here do not see any weakness in India and its systems.
3. 1962 War - I (not Indian) was on India's side a long time ago till I migrated to the West 30 yrs ago and came across numerous articles and books (I especially avoided any info sourced from Indian or Chinese sources) and my conclusion is India was at fault. Hey Indians you do not have to believe me but just unemotionally do your own research and apply the same criteria I did and you will probably come to the same conclusion. Have a peruse of a couple of urls:
http://www.glocom.org/debates/20050531_clark_western/index.html
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20071115gc.html
4. Leaders everywhere make mistakes look at Bush, Mao and Tony Blair (MG how he has fallen; and I used to think he was great) and then you perhaps can accept mistakes made by Indian leaders. The crime is not in making the mistake but what the intent was originally. For Bush we know he was after the Iraqi oil.
5. I browse through a lot of material on the net and unfortunately I have to state that more often than not even when the article is not on China there will be one or two Indians (based on the blogger’s name) who will somehow bring in China in negative terms.
6. We can all blog till the cows come home but it will change nothing ie how India and China progresses. And therefore to get a feel where these countries are at in terms of political clout, economic advancement, scientific progress etc we have to refer to some international stats and again refer to non-Indian and non-Chinese ones. The conclusion is quite clear who is ahead
7. Some here are like religious fundamentalists – ie when presented with facts they deny it; they will not accept reason, their minds are closed and only their view is right. That is ok this is the net it means nothing if some are not willing to accept the logic presented. It is like a gathering at a dinner but what a great dining table this is we are sitting around. Like the saying goes – you can bring the horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Have a Merry Xmas and may disease & poverty be eliminated in every country. And may we be more humane in extending a helping hand to each other in our hour of need.

James Brown

April 16, 2010 6:34 AM

China is raping Tibet. The largest polluter in the world. If it is so great then why in the world it does censorship, even basic things like google search is filtered. So it means China has really ugly things to hide.

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Bloomberg Businessweek’s team of Asia reporters brings you the latest insights on business, politics, technology and culture from some of the world’s biggest and fastest-growing economies.

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