Stimulus: Tighter H-1B Controls on Bailed Out Banks

If it gets out that Tarp recipients are trying to get around this by hiring from the h-1B pimps like Wipro, Infosys and Tata there better be a swift amendment to shore this up.

The public is watching.

idiots.. absolutely idiots.. this will prevent them from hiring very creme de la creme of top MBA graduates.. but does nothing to prevent outsourcing to Indian companies.. this will actually increase outsourcing while preventing those MBA grads from being employed directly as full time employees (only a handful compared to consultants/contractors and outsourcers).. stupid washington...

It's a good start to give jobs to unemployed highly skilled Americans. This program alone has left many programmers and engineers unemployed. Since it's hard to find work in IT and engineering, students no longer want to take Computer Science and Engineering. If we cancel this program we will have invested in the next generation of Americans who will be our future engineers and scientist. Invest in our own assets and let America manufacturing be the best in the world.

Thank You Senator Grassley and Senator Sanders. I finally feel like I am living in a representative democracy again.

THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE END!
"firms like India-based Infosys (INFY), Wipro (WIT), and Tata (TCS.NS), which are among the top recipients of petitions for the H-1B visa program. In other words, a bank could still legally force a laid-off American employee to train a replacement worker who is on an H-1B visa on an outsourcing firm’s payroll."

I am an unemployed Computer Engineer.
Any corporate executive who commits fraud by hiring H1-Bs deserves to be tarred and feathered.

I don't understand why everyone thinks this H1B issue only applies to low paid Indian IT workers!!! How about the graduate students from other countries who went to US schools and have outstanding offer?? They went through hell this year to secure offers going head to head with every qualified American student! Why should they have to suffer?

"In other words, a bank could still legally force a laid-off American employee to train a replacement worker who is on an H-1B visa on an outsourcing firm’s payroll. "
True, but on the other hand, Obama is going to give each of us an eight dollar a week tax deduction, so its kind of a wash.

wow. I am glad that they caught the visa fraud but I am surprised that they still think H1b workers take a huge portion of the American workforce. I think it is a biased and desperate policy.Regardless of hiring h1b or not, the economy is still downturn and the unemployment will continue unless they solve the root of the problem. good luck Obama.

And surely, there are greased loopholes that INSURE, business as usual....at Wall Street, PEEnut Craporation of Amerika, Silly-Con Valley, Detroit, SEIU, UAW.....for EVERY member of the US Chamber of Commerce....it's OPEN SEASON on you American people...NO ONE is to interfere with the PROFIT objectives of Corporate America and their PAID 'Spitzer Girls' in Congress...is that not CORRECT Sen. Grassley, Sen Barney Frank, Mssss Pelosi?

Politicians may think in their own way to protect their government but in the point of business process it is very bad decision of tightening H1B-visas. Protectionism is not good for US, In fact H1B visas are not the reason for the recession and the unemployment now. The banks have given loans heavily and they unable to collect the payments back, One should blame the US banking system. H1B visas have nothing to do with this recession now.

Wow. Thanks for throwing the American IT worker a bone. The banks involved will just get around this by hiring "consultant" H1B employees and firing their American employees after having them train their replacements.

This is a "feel good" measure as it doesn't prohibit an organization from outsourcing services overseas, it only diminishes the importing of talent. It'd be interesting to see how much banks really rely on the use of H-1B workers (as usual we're told its a problem, but aren't ever shown the data). If nothing else it was a good PR measure.

Enough for xenophobia! Stop whining and start to face it! We are the richest, most highly educated and most successful ethnic group in US because we are intelligent; have best education, we work hard; have work ethics and master advanced technologies and knowhow. It may appear that we hire our own clans. That is simply because they happen to have better education and have higher IQ. Remember that we pay most taxes without ever enjoying any unemployment allowance or bailout etc. JaiHind.

We must keep writing our representatives in Washington. H1-B scam must stop.

Oh well American are to lazy to fight for their rights. Guess I will pack my stuff, head to India and open a motel or a convenient store.

In 1930s, German blamed Jews, today, Amercian blamed immigrants. It is those cheap labors that support American to live in such a high standard. What business could survive if they have to pay $100K to some lazy and stupid engineers.

Here you can find the complete of H1B Visa employers, categorized by industry, occupation and location. All successful companies are successful, because they hire lots of H1B. Take a look, how many h1b Big Three hires! This is the reason they failed.

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/

Dear Moira Herbst,

This articel would have made some emaning if you had described the hoops that the company would have to jump to get an H1B. What a lazzy reporting.

1) NOT a single dime Tax Payer money should go to H1B andl L1 hiring companies.
2) INS, Labor dept must investigate the widespread abuse of these visa programs and culprits must be punished.
3) There are plenty if highly qualified Americans desperately looking for a job in the IT filed now.
4) H1B and L1 visa program must be stopped. Americans are loosing jobs, their houses, their livelihoods.

People that say protectionism isn't good for America, seem to be confusing good for Americans with,good for global companies that act like they are American companies. You can't be an American company and turn your back on Americans. These global companies are NOT American, they are global, hence the push for more h1b, etc. Nothing wrong with being global, just quit hiding behind the flag when it's your turn to man up.

companies such as google and yahoo were founded by foreigners that created hundreds of thousands of jobs for Americans. Why would you want to stop similar high skill foreigners from benefiting the US? studies have shown that more h1bs are correlated to higher patents for us companies.

1) NOT a single dime Tax Payer money should go to H1B andl L1 hiring companies.

This is totally ridiculous. Do you know how much each H1B pays in taxes for the period of 6 years. (Do not forget to include Social Security and Medicare). It is 10 times an average american pays over 6 years.

Also the number of international students studying advanced degrees in American universities is 50%. Where does all the money they pay go?

I totally agree that the program was misused by some people, which should be stopped.

Look at this article from Harvard, which shows the importance of immigration workers.

http://www.hbs.edu/research/pdf/09-005.pdf

Fine,american workers,and NEW STYLE AND
MORAL PROFILE OF FINANCIAL MANAGERS,for
american Co's...indians in India, arabs
in Arabia...mexicans in Mexico, crisis times, new times for new solutions..that's not nationalism or racism...just pure logic and balanced
decitions for USA...

Does anyone even understand that these banks do bring lot of profits by doing business in foreign countries? Why would it be imperative that all the work be done only in the US if the bank is operating all over the world.

Do we really want to go back to the knee jerk reactions, say like Indian and Chinese customers not using either CITI or BofA as their bankers?

Infact, the regular customers in the developing world are much less "business xenophobic" than the developed world? Please do tell, how many of you walk in to a "State Bank of China" as opposed to someone in Hongkong banking at SCB.

Please use common sense to tackle this economic crisis, because the bottom line is that this crisis is not caused because of temporary workers or any other kind of depression. Its a global phenomenon and having a humane outlook is what everyone's bible asks for.

I am an immigrant (India), however I completely understand the plight of US people.

At this point instead of stopping H1B completely I would suggest the following,

1) stopping H1B frauds, they happen and must be stopped !

2) Allocate H1B to only those people who have come to USA and have an advanced degree (from USA) !

3) A lot of mediocre Indian students come here for education and end up getting jobs through consultants, stop that !, increase the requirements for grad schools such that only the best make it here !

These 3 steps will greatly help the cause, and these people will actually make a contribution to better America.

What is True American? A Person who pays all the applicable taxes, buys all American items (including all parts and components, not just assembled in USA), practices all the amendments. So out of all of you who can promise to do these? If you love your country and don't want american to loose jobs, don't buy anything made in China, Japan etc.

I dont think H-1B holders are really being replaced by Americans. I have almost worked 7 clients as consultants and they really need the position I am doing. However I came across Americans who are higher skilled than me. But situation in work is so dominating because of following reason:
1) Company usually needs one who just work for short term, to which real Americans are very less to find in surrounding area of that company.
2) When Company requires 5 skilled people, it only able to find 2 such people as real Americans
3) Also most Americans who are skilled don't seem to be flexible to handle or learn other skills because of their lifestyle, which will lead other openings
Also most of Americans are skilled on management side. Even the skilled Americans whom I seen are greatly intelligent but forcibly work extra hours. And because of this they either opt for managerial jobs with high pays or go for other businesses from savings they have.

Lord
2) and 3) are not at all right. Guys who took advanced degrees and lack logical expression in their skills keep calling me to resolve their work in company. And they are guys who have done MS computers in USA. Definition of mediocre really require some standards when you convey it. And in front of my eyes mediocre guys with logical mind and little english skills have shined great here in USA.

The problem is not the H1B progams and intent of it, it's the HUGE abuse of it. The program was intended to help with a shortfall of qualified workers (primarily back in the dot.com boom days) but it was not intended to be a way to find cheap labor. Unfortunately that's exactly what all the big firms figured out how to do, game the system and make more profits. It's not protectionism when all we ask is that you follow the rules, attempt to find a local worker and offer the SAME wage to any potential employees. How many billions did Microsoft make the whole time Bill Gates was lobbying congress for access to more H1B's... he's the worst at it. Now it's abused by Indian firms flooding the market with cheap labor to grab market share and bring the work offshore. Again not the intent of the program. The way to fix it is simple 1) only the final employer (US Firm) should be able to hire an H1B worker, no more middle-men and staffing firms and 2) the wages offered should be published and carefully scrutinized. You will get the brightest (the goal) and you will stop the rapid outsouring of everything in IT.

Making H1B a scapegoat and a washboard for the crimes and wrongdoing of some big wigs in the game is not the solution. I agree to remove malpractices in the H1 visa issuance Dept but then there is enough wrong in their own nest.
Tax payer money is more of the Indians who never miss filing that, and need to say it was an honest mistake later if they don't.
Dime for dime H1 workers are more legal to work than any who wan to flaunt their status as a reason to inherit a job.

Ssc13,

"Guys who took advanced degrees and lack logical expression in their skills keep calling me to resolve their work in company"

It's because of the poor quality of students picked for these advanced degrees, which I said needs to be fixed.Again these students invest $ in US educational system, is the reason why US univs admit them. It would be logical for the students to expect returns on their investment.

Justin,
why Microsoft does that, is because of capitalistic nature of American markets, here profits matter the most, USA is neither socialist nor mixed economy, its a capitalistic economy. So you really can't blame the companies if they try to maximize their profits. Don't forgot that American public has invested in MS and expect great returns when they retire, now if MS did not care about profits ... then your earnings on their share will go down, and then people will cry foul ...its a catch 22 situation ... lolz

Dear fellow US citizens: Want to go on your own? Want to start a new protectionist policy, closing borders to foreign products and workers??

Fine, but please first start paying off the trillions of foreign private consumer debt you have towards the rest of the world.

REAL AMERICAN JOB:

www.dabagirls.wordpress.com

The threats to U.S. government programs posed by H-1B are becoming increasingly apparent. In one recent incident an H-1B hire purposefully endangered two American financial institutions (Fannie Mae and Bank of America) through loss of data that would have cost U.S. taxpayers additional billions in damages.
Given this point, prohibiting H-1B employment in government bailout institutions appears prudent at the very least.

I have read all these comments and the only one who correctly defined the problem is Justin:

"The problem is not the H1B programs and intent of it; it's the HUGE abuse of it."

These visas were meant for highly educated contributors but have instead been turned into just another method for getting cheaper foreign labor. The biggest problem is the widespread dishonesty. When something is not called what it truly is it can only result in a downward spiral of recriminations and retributions. The H1B visa program IS a cheap labor program. No more. No less. It is time to admit it so we can more on to a different and more honest approach.

I have been an IT Project Leader for the last 22 years and here is an honest microcosm of my H1B experiences over the last 5 years:
"Tax payer money is more of the Indians who never miss filing that, and need to say it was an honest mistake later if they don't.
Dime for dime H1 workers are more legal to work than any who want to flaunt their status as a reason to inherit a job."

Don’t fool yourself. This lack of competent clarity leads to real problems. Face Facts. If your job is to actively communicate with English speaking end users you just cannot do it. Any American 5 year old would be embarrassed to produce narrative like this. I have worked with a number of H1B’s over the last 5 years. Some were quite good. Some were adequate. Many were embarrassments to themselves and to the projects. Many, many times I found myself immersed in terrible situations having to explain unacceptable results caused by unintelligible communications between H1B’s, other members of the project team, functional management, and, of course, end-users.

If you can come to America and you are able to make a contribution please do so. We have welcomed permanent immigrants for centuries. If you plan on coming to America just to exploit our current situation please stay where you are.

I am surprised with the shortsightedness of people but then no one is to blame. In times of economic problems, people without jobs usually want to let out their anger and what better than targetting the paltry H1Bs who are allowed to work in the US each year.

Has someone looked into the fact that the number of layoff each month for the last few months has been 6-10 times the number of H1Bs hired every year.

But that is not the bigger problem. All critiques of H1B forget one fundamental thing... H1Bs bring revenue to the US. Yes because of H1Bs US gets atleast 5 Billion dollars of foreign money. Yes thats true... it comes through students who come to the US to study hoping to get work here on H1B visas.

Think of this....

Senators Chuck Grassley and the Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont are bringing in an amendment to the stimulus package which would stop any companies getting the stimulus support , if they are employing H1B's.
It's a good move by the Senators to secure the jobs of Americans. However a lot of international students come to USA for higher education. If the H1B's are banned, a lot of students who come to the US with the views of working after their education will have to go back and will not be able to fulfill their dreams.
So
• Are the senators who are bringing this amendment willing to make sure that the students know about the job situation before they pump in thousands of dollars in the US for their education.
• Are the Senators willing to let the students know that they should not dream of working in the US?
• Are the senators willing to bring in another amendment which forces all educational institutes in the US to clearly highlight this predicament to all the students before the students commit themselves to paying their fees and studying here?
• Are the senators willing to ensure that the education institutes clearly mention on their website that International students cannot work here after their education? I bet its not going to be easy nor will the senators be able to bring in this kind of an amendment.
And I can explain this through some number for people to understand easily
582,984 Number of International students enrolled in the US in year 2008
$ 25,000 Average tuition and living expenses that every student spends in the US over a year (On the lower side. Some of the undergraduate schools and graduate school expenses run into more than $ 60,000 per year
$ 14,574,600,000 Amount of money being pumped into the US economy by International students at a conservative rate (US Dollar 14.5 billion)
$ 7,287,300,000 Amount or revenue lost if 50% of the international students decide not to pursue an education in the US because they cannot work here after the education ($ 7.28 Billion)
$ 4,858,200,000 Even assuming that only 1/3 rd of the students decide not to pursue the education the revenue loss to the US economy from international students would be 4.85 Billion Dollars
Thus at conservative estimates the US economy is likely to lose $ 4.85 billion revenue every year just because they decide to cut down the H1B visas quota of 85,000 visas.
I am sure every international student will have this on her or his mind. Do the US senators have this on their mind too???
This kinds of an amendment to the stimulus package or an attempt to reduce H1B caps a big impact on individuals aspiring to work in the USA. However it also impacts the US economy specially the education sector. This might in turn impact the economy of USA and any adverse impacts are not good for the people. Have the senetor's thought of this???

If you cant read it here you can do so at http://studentsforumusa.blogspot.com/

Happy reading and understanding how not having H1B visas can impact the US economy.

Sanders was prolly on drugs when he came up with this! or may be he's just another idiot in the govt.
why the f*** is he using "tax payer" as a term to differentiate between h1b workers & american workers.
When the reality is that the H1B Worker doesnt get a single f*ckin benefit , but still pays more taxes compared to the american worker!!!
this is one load of crap as usual from the idiots rulin this nation!

Fine agreed that American workers should be given priority....

Please tell me how many people in the US are Native Americans? Whose ancestors are from America... Do u know that none of you were American. Only the red Indian are Americans who have been crushed in some rural areas.

So when you talk about Americans please think that you should be American by roots or don't speak up. America is for everyone. Thats what they have been doing. Why our Indian scientist or researchers have Patents in US? Why there are more PHD Indian students in the US? Bcoz America wants talent under its name. America buys that talent and gives him citizenship with all the facilities. And now when it comes to layoff you think about H1b creating problems to economy? If H1b were not hired the banks would had required more bailout coz of the high pay to lazy so called Americans.

This does nothing. The banks have always outsourced their H1B pimping to Indian owned companies because those companies qualify as minority owned vendors for which the banks get a huge tax break for using. THAT is the real dirty little secret. India has been able to dominate the US tech industry by exploiting both the H1B law as well as tax breaks designed to help minorities. Truly despicable.

So we're blocking immigrant workers so that less competitive citizens can have jobs they otherwise wouldn't have been able to earn on their own, right? And that will benefit our economy, correct?

This is kind of like if the government decided to subsidize VHS manufacturing plants, because, well, those people need jobs. Even if no one wants what they're producing.

If no one wants what you're producing -- learn to produce something they DO want. Don't ask the government to prevent productive new additions to our nation because you can't keep up.

That's all.

Rohan Vakharkar, AJ,

Your posts are oozing with arrogance and they are insulting to the residents of the country you are working in. I'm sorry, but that old line about no one being a native american is BS, and overused. Retire it please. I could just as well say that no one is really a native Indian, most have migrated there thousands of years ago from elsewhere after the ice age. So just zip it.

Indians didn't care for it when British people considered themselves more intelligent then what they saw as 'lazy' and uneducated Indians, especially when the Brits were living in India andvoicing those opinions.

As far as I'm concerned, you are guests in my country, and you are showing extremely bad manners. It wasn't that long ago that 'lazy' americans created most of the technologies you claim to excel at. Underestimate Americans at your own risk...we can get pretty feisty when we finally begin to take action. Your long era of abusing our system may be coming to an end as a result of an economic crsiis, which is finally serving to wake people up.

Well, real programmers don't care two hoots about this H1B hullahbullah.... ban the H1Bs. I'm an H1B myself. All I did was work real hard in my company back in India, do my stuff and they selected to bring me here to do more of the stuff I do. The US is sinking anyway.

People don't pay their mortgages and now they're blaming everyone else except the people who took the loans in the first place. That's how stupid the people who loose their houses and blame their government are. What crap is this? Everyday you hear on the radio some lady or man blasting away at the government for not giving them a cheque to pay of their mortgages. Americans are real spoilt and don't know two hoots about working hard. There's a "water shortage" here in Florida. I wake up everyday in the morning and see all the public gardens keeping their sprinklers switched running like crazy. Yeah, "water shortage" - we can't water our lawns everyday now. Boo hoo hoo.

And who are the scape goats who are taking advantage of the "tax payer" money now? Your everyday H1Bs! yeah, as if they never paid any tax. What a load of bull. I hope there is a ban on the H1Bs because I really want some of those programmers who can't find a job to get a job and show their stuff. I know how hard our Project Managers and tech leads find to recruit good software developers. Folks who claim to be senior developers can't even write the simplest programs to pass the first round of screening (write a program to print even numbers, palindrome etc). I hope those same programmers who complain that we are stealing their jobs replace us and then we'll see if they'll answer a production call in the middle of the night and fix it. And this crap that H1Bs are paid below the normal wages is just that - CRAP. Have you heard of an LCA? That's the application that the state government has to sign of which stipulates the pay. It is only when that is signed off after verifying the pay that an H1B can work.

I bet my hundred bucks that these fraudsters don't have an LCA. Yet people who lack a little bit of common sense club all of us tax paying H1Bs who do our work right in that bunch. Crap.

Yeah, stop the fraud. Ban it. Get all your best American programmers a job. Make sure that the H1Bs brought here are really good because I'm sick of people like myself who have been programming since I was a kid get clubbed into all this vitriol.

If you're good at what you do, you can succeed anywhere. Early last year I was supposed to join a two year start up in Canada with all the formalities ready. But I had a hunch that the economy would sulk even further and stayed at my job.

I hope this H1B thing gets resolved and those same programmer my managers don't want to hire take my place. I'll probably be in that start up by then doing my stuff.

But here's what I noticed. Find a great American programmer and he doesn't care two hoots about this H1B nonsense. You know why? Because a real good programmer can easily find a job even in today's economy. I still get calls every week. There are lots of jobs to be frank. Just that it's spread all over the country and the criteria for getting those jobs are not as easy as some of you "hey, I have a computer engineering degree but no one selects me" whinees. Yeah, anyone who does a little programming knows that it aint just about the paper wieght but a bit more on the analytical, logical and aptitude side of things that makes a great piece of software. And probably NONE of you I-Hate-H1B folks will relocate (I don't blame you. But I don't mind as I just have two suit cases and a laptop. Everything else is disposable and stuff I can sell off in three days flat).

So I second the "Let's BAN ALL H1Bs" union. Ban them! Fast! I'm sure we'll get out of a recession soon. Get more taxes too. And Obama will give you cheques to pay off your mortgages (besides, from listening to callers on radio talk shows, that's exactly why some of bimbos voted for their messiah. "I voted for Obama but I still haven't got my mortgage paid".

hmmm!

And I find this protectionism stupid. It's typical of folks who don't think real hard.

Take a look at his article:

Obama Sours on U.S.-Korea Free-Trade Deal

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb20090313_754498.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_global+business

You know why??? Because Korea's Hyundai and Kia sell more cars in US than GM, Ford and Chrysler combined. This is plain stupid. This simply shows how dumb policy makers are. Who the hell wants a stupid car that breaks down after a few years? And they blame this on Korea being "unfair". Sheash.

The glory years of the US was in the 50s and 60s. Then came the 70s with Vietnam and most of your veterans returned only to be scoffed at, get heavy into drugs along with the hippies. 80s was when credit flourished for every single thing. Even if you were broke, you could live on credit. 90s was a continuation of living beyond your means and these executives, future traders along with the consumers (yeah, don't think all you mortage whiners can get off the hook) gave capitalism a really bad name when the bubble burst in the 90s.

And now you guys depend on China to bail you out.

hey, who cares... it's all the H1B's fault!

Socialist programs like the H-1B that artificially manipulate the market always have the same result.

When you artificially lower the price of a commodity(labor in this case) producers(US workers and students) stop producing as it is not in their economic best interest, thats why I left the Computer Engineering field to manage a restaurant. I make more money and have better job security.

It's sad really, I have watch the "Best and Brightest" be replaced by the "desperate and cheap"

Even though I'm a fifth generation American Engineer I would try to persuade any American student from entering a field that had CHEAP IMPORTED labor flooding the market lowering wages and shortening careers.

It's sad really, I loved my old tech job, the hours were long and management treated engineers like peons, but it was interesting and used the skills I had spent a lifetime(I started programming when I was 10)developing.

I am a h1b Worker (6yrs). Have been successful in my field and am paid the most in my department. To add i am the only H1B holder in my department.

And yes H1B is abused at times and its abuse should be stopped.
And yes America is captializtic- More profitable will win over less profitable

I do believe evey American citizen shoud do what is in the best interest of America.

The fact is - IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO BE ON A H1B AND NOT A RIGHT OF WAY.

The way i look at H1B jobs are jobs that are not desired for by the Americans / jobs skills not available. If American citizens want thse jobs then they should have the first right to it. In my experience that is the way it works even today.

In any case we are all here to help America do better and in that we are all united.

Cheers.

WHY can I not find out how much Citizens Bank got in stimulus before I go postal on my branch?

Jobs in IT are not that easy to get in the market now. All who came on H-1Bs have invested (money and struggle) lot to make up their careers. Now the damage of H-1B guyz are as similar as whoever are unemployed Americans. May be more if you look at the struggle H-1Bs took to come over to USA.
May be it is time for US govt. to stop new H-1Bs for sometime rather than putting pressure on existing one.
One should keep in mind exchange of jobs and businesses globally is quite common in this modern era. Cooperation has only played success formula in past. And it applies even now.

Cheers

I went to school (MS)in a top 10 Civil Engineering School on East COast. I was shocked to see that out of 38 students in higher education (MS +PHD) only 4 students were American. This is despite of the fact that (financial aid- TA/RA) funding is guaranteed for any American Student because the department has funds and has never been able to attract students , in fact more funding can not be garnered by the school from the govt. because that can only be spent on American Students.
ON top 6 out of 7 of our professors are also not US born Americans. I find it pretty stupid that people in AMerica still bitch and moan about jobs and H1B's. There are tonne of jobs out there but not for some high school drop out retard from SOuthern VIrginia, or some lazy douchbag who wants to be a millionaire right after leaving his fraternity in school.

Instead of complaining and whining over here may be these people should look in to the statistics and engineering department of schools and become deserving enough to get a job.

TO stop H1B is like saying - We can make Detroit profitable by banning international brands.

Incompetent (read Hard working) american workers need some help. Sure Obama and Grassley will give them some of those bailouts and free checks.