A Lost Decade for Jobs

Posted by: Michael Mandel on June 23

Private sector job growth was almost non-existent over the past ten years. Take a look at this horrifying chart:

longjobs1.gif

Between May 1999 and May 2009, employment in the private sector sector only rose by 1.1%, by far the lowest 10-year increase in the post-depression period.

It’s impossible to overstate how bad this is. Basically speaking, the private sector job machine has almost completely stalled over the past ten years. Take a look at this chart:

longjobs2.gif

Over the past 10 years, the private sector has generated roughly 1.1 million additional jobs, or about 100K per year. The public sector created about 2.4 million jobs.

But even that gives the private sector too much credit. Remember that the private sector includes health care, social assistance, and education, all areas which receive a lot of government support. I’ve been talking about the HealthEdGov sector. Take a look at this table:

10-year Job Growth: HealthEdGov Sector Dominates 
Industry Change, May 1999-2009
(thousands of jobs)*
Private healthcare 2898
Food and drinking places 1567
Gov educ 1390
Professional and business services 885
Gov except health and ed 843
Social assistance 796
Private education 772
Arts, entertainment, and recreation 188
Gov health 148
Mining 133
Financial activities 130
Utilities -40
Transportation and warehousing -43
Retail -91
Accomodations -119
Wholesale -166
Construction -238
Information -525
Manufacturing -5372
*Gov health and gov educ based on April 2009 estimates
Data: BLS

Most of the industries which had positive job growth over the past ten years were in the HealthEdGov sector. In fact, financial job growth was nearly nonexistent once we take out the health insurers.

Let me finish with a final chart.

longjobs4.gif

Without a decade of growing government support from rising health and education spending and soaring budget deficits, the labor market would have been flat on its back.

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Reader Comments

Christine

June 23, 2009 02:28 PM

Does this incorporate real estate industry-related data? (I don't see it, but RE drove quite a bit of growth for several years...)

CompEng

June 23, 2009 02:39 PM

I'm not sure how to translate this information into a story, or especially a policy response.

Is it, like the conservatives would say, that government spending and healthcare subsidies are sinking the rest of the economy?

Would you continue your interpretation that we are failing to find the next big economic growth area?

Is it the populist story that opening the floodgates to globalization is bringing our job market down to sea level?

I don't necessarily see a contradiction among these.

Brandon W

June 23, 2009 02:53 PM

Not even so much the past 10 years as the past 8. It's fallen off a cliff. While I'm all for cutting government spending as a principle, it makes you wonder what would have happened (or what WILL happen) with cuts in government spending rather than the growth we've seen. Where would we be?

lark

June 23, 2009 03:34 PM

Whee! I love rollercoaster rides, and the real fun is when you go down...

Seriously, how much of this is due to the economic fads of offshore outsourcing and unlimited globalization?

Because this chart is incomplete. Think of all the job growth going in in low wage countries e.g. India and China. Compare their job growth, to ours. That is the true picture.

Hugo van Randwyck

June 23, 2009 03:37 PM

As the trade deficit increased, and manufacturing jobs declined, so did the jobs that people, who worked in manufacturing, spent money on decline. How about a graph showing the real, after inflation, increase in house prices, and change in manufacturing jobs. As house prices/rents increased, manufacturing companies couldn't afford to pay people a living wage, to cover housing expenses. Wall street/bankers irresponsibility helped drive out manufacturing jobs. The health care business is easily fixable, with competition. Google: health tourism usa savings, for info on 50-80% savings. There is even an association. What would happen if health spending fell from 14% of GDP to 8%? There would also be a big increase in airline business, and improved manufacturing opportunities. Some of the health tourism companies also offer corporate programs. Apparently medical tourism is a $20 billion market, with expectations it could grow to $100 billion, by 2012. Renewable energy is in a growth phase.

GW

June 23, 2009 03:50 PM

You don't think this could in some small way contribute to our current economic problems, do you? Is it possible that if people can't get jobs and wages are down, that could possibly hurt their ability to pay for houses, college, cars, and other stuff? Or is the last 8 years of that chart what Republicans mean by "trickle down".

Dailydubya

June 23, 2009 04:02 PM

Why, it's almost as if you're saying that the Bush years weren't really that great for working families. How can that be?

Doug

June 23, 2009 04:05 PM

The past eight years have been a disaster.

Tad

June 23, 2009 04:16 PM

Being in manufacturing for the past 22 years thats my I went in for business for myself.chek out my site at www.JustVerve.com for your health

chusaberliner

June 23, 2009 04:17 PM

What does this mean? That the private sector jobs were greatly inflated due to
"illusory profits" based on loose credit expansion? Now it appears the federal government is taking on all the private sector debts and creating its own debts by having more outlays than tax income (i.e. to create unproductive, non-income producing government jobs). It is obvious that the US government has monetized its debts in large part by pawning them off to foreign governments who hold about 40% of all US government debt. Now the Asians and Europeans are afraid to sell their dollar holdings in fear that the same "in and of itself" will devalue the holdings of their dollars. (i.e. for every dollar you sell, you decrease your remaining dollars by a certain percentage). I suggest we allow the foreigner to buy anything they want in the US. This will create jobs but also demand based inflation.

shadrak

June 23, 2009 04:19 PM

So much for free unprotected trade, is that the way to look after your people? And where exactly do you think all the jobs went?

Hugo van Randwyck

June 23, 2009 04:35 PM

Maybe an interesting graph could be the pay, or maybe % of GDP these sectors are taking. I'm not sure how Wall Street irresponsibility is included in these numbers. I feel they are a bigger threat to American security, than China or Russia. Here goes. The finance companies/Wall Street allow people to buy houses above three times earnings. So without any extra work, they/Wall Street earn more money. Since people need to live, manufacturing employees need more pay, to pay for higher rents etc. The manufacturing companies lose money, so they merge - so earning fees for Wall Street. House prices go higher - so businesses move manufacturing offshore - so earning foreign exchange fees for Wall Street. Also the trade deficit increases, so WS earning fees for America borrowing more money overseas. As economy performs lower, there is a budget deficit, that Wall Street helps fund, so earning more fees. Where are the ethical people in Wall Street, who care about America? Lower house prices, and clear out the stable in Wall Street, and let manufacturing prosper, and create jobs.

JohnB

June 23, 2009 04:36 PM

Christ Michael, congratulations on just having realized what many of us have been trying to tell you for years. As an industrial engineer who had a career change to IT in the supply chain space, I could have told you just how much trouble we've been in. Facts are, a housing bubble created a 'fake' manufacturing and construction era, and now that's crashed and burned, leaving government and healthcare as the only decent sectors left. And they can't grow without some other form of industry supporting them. The wholesale outsourcing and offshoring thats occurred in the last decade has been unprecendented; and guess which 2 sectors that impacted most? I'd actually like to see a chart of the construction industry job gains/losses for each year over the last 10 years. I'd bet, you would have been amongst those trumpeting what a success that was. Until we get some proper coordinated industrial investment and strategy going in this country, to fight what's been going on overseas, this country will continue going down the crapper. Green is the industry to do it with; but only if you refuse to hand over the keys to the Chinese. And that means telling GE and others to stop exporting the technology as fast as its being developed.

sam

June 23, 2009 04:44 PM

This is a surpise? We needed Mike to figure this out? We know where the job growth went: India and China. So tell me hot shot, how ya gonna fix it?

sam

June 23, 2009 04:47 PM

Tell us something we don't know. I'm sure I have lost $100's of thousands in income during the last 10 years because of off-shoring. That's money I didn't spend on the goods and services produced by the companies that shipped the jobs out.

econguy

June 23, 2009 04:59 PM

So much for the presumption that the economy would grow no matter what corp tax rates are even after the 10k pages of special legislative gimmicks,liability and regulatory costs, mandated private sector-paid benefits, minimum wage, and double taxation efforts were piled on. Sure it doesn't matter to those with short attention spans and win-the-day PR specialists and Clintons. But is does matter over time and especially during major shake outs.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 05:02 PM

I don't think the public sector is a savior. Rather, it is the parasite that is killing the host.

Government spending has been rising to create these jobs. This causes rises in tax rates AND deficits, which choke off the private sector.

Just look at the jobs situation in high-tax states (CA, MA, NY), vs. low-tax states (TX, NV). That says it all, even though all fall under the same Federal taxation.

Chart government spending as a percentage of GDP, relative to private sector job growth, and THAT will tell the whole story.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 05:05 PM

5 million jobs lost in manufacturing were jobs mostly held by men.

The job growth in Health/Ed is in jobs held by women.

5 million blue-collar men out of work, and 5 million women who have gained cushy, well-paying jobs. Top that off with anti-male media bias and divorce laws. Note the increase in gun sales over the last few years (women aren't the ones buying those either).

Gee... what could possibly go wrong?

GLL

June 23, 2009 05:12 PM

All of our leaders regardless of party are on the "globalist" express. We are being economically strip mined of our industrial base. Our standard of living is to high to compete with exploited labor in other nations so our labor force shrinks. Meanwhile, we buy all the things that we used to make by borrowing money from the countries we outsourced our industrial base to, this will go on until we are eventually bankrupt and our standard of living drops to the level to be competitive if we stay on our current course.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 05:14 PM

Everyone is blaming India and China for capitalizing on opportunities created by US arrogance and socialism.

They have done nothing wrong.

Official government policy is to transfer wealth from men (manufacturing) to women (HealthEdGov).

Whether through divorce court, welfare, sexual harassment laws, affirmative action, or economic 'stimulus' policies, the State wants to transfer wealth from men to women, and make men second class citizens.

When the last straw breaks the camel's back, the backlash won't be pretty. More men are earning less than women, more men are moving overseas, divorces are rampant, gun sales are rising.....

tilly

June 23, 2009 05:28 PM

Tell us something we don't know. I'm sure I have lost $100's of thousands in income during the last 10 years because of off-shoring. That's money I didn't spend on the goods and services produced by the companies that shipped the jobs out.

Bah Humbug

June 23, 2009 05:32 PM

We have sold our souls to the Asian manufacturers, just like Europe did to the US 100 years ago. It's now so late, that American workers can't sew a button on a shirt anymore.

gabe, san diego

June 23, 2009 05:39 PM

Thank you Globalisation!

dw

June 23, 2009 06:00 PM

This describes the real cause of this mess. had jobs kept growing, then wages would have been up, and the need for easy credit wouldn't have been needed by so many. but that was wall streets plan. they kept jobs down (all the while saying every thing was great and every thing they suggested would create jobs!) so they could make those loans and get their killer incomes. and now that we have seen the whole mess blow up, business are desperate for customers who can buy their goods. but no longer exist.

lancest

June 23, 2009 06:12 PM

This is why I no longer reside in US. Places like California are still expensive to live in despite NO JOB GROWTH.

Bob Melvin

June 23, 2009 06:12 PM

The number of jobs available will shrink in the next 10 years, just as we bring in more people. We will successfully outsource the US economy to permanent + 15% unemployment within the next 15 years. During down times the numbers will hit %20. It is inevitable. The question is what the future will look like as far as social stability. I see a disaster coming.

Laurent GUERBY

June 23, 2009 06:16 PM

A data point: from OECD, employment rate from 2000 to 2007

- Men aged 25-54
France 87.1 to 88.3 = +1.2
USA 89.0 to 87.5 = -1.5

- Women aged 25-54
France 69.6 to 76.1 = +6.5
USA 74.2 to 74.5 = +0.3

- Both sexes aged 25-54
France 78.3 to 82.1 = +3.8
USA 81.5 to 79.9 = -0.6

Note: "35 hours" work week laws were passed in 1998 and 2000 in France with delayed application in time.

j

June 23, 2009 06:25 PM

While unskilled jobs are down, skilled professional jobs are up. Globalization has resulted in more high paying skilled jobs in the USA. I and my peers have never done better.

Brandon W

June 23, 2009 06:37 PM

Kartik,
You often cite corporate tax rates as being the fault of anything bad that happens. Corporate taxes only provide about 5% of the tax revenue, so it's not that corporate taxes are overwhelming. What's more, if the tax rates in the United States are so very ominous, why aren't corporations leaving in droves; why aren't they relocating wholesale to low-tax countries?

Jason Bradfield

June 23, 2009 06:47 PM

I don't understand why this necessarily matter.

Jobs have "disappeared" in agriculture over the last century - does that mean we should go back to the good old days of family farms?

We need more data than this to make an analysis of the economic situation.

Brandon W

June 23, 2009 07:01 PM

Laurent,
Thank you for that data. Kellogg's (foods) implemented "short" work weeks during the Depression and it served to improve overall employment levels in Battle Creek, Michigan and reduced the impact on the region as a whole. More employed people meant more people able to purchase things. I've been a fan of the shortened work week for a while now. There are various ways it could be implemented. One advantage France has over the U.S. is that all citizens have solid health care coverage, regardless of their employment status. More Americans would certainly opt to work part time jobs if they had health care coverage for their families. I have known many co-workers over the years (mostly female) who ended up spending almost everything they made on day-care for their kids and the costs of going to work; they only worked for the health insurance.

Scott

June 23, 2009 07:05 PM

High US corporate tax rates make it much more lucrative for US corporations to expand operations anywhere but here. If it's only 5% of tax revenue, why not get rid of them and rap the benefits of more private sector jobs.

Doug

June 23, 2009 07:16 PM

I would like to see Tom Friedman write an article in response to this article.

pietrov

June 23, 2009 07:16 PM

this is bullshit. think about this:

population increases and technology increases (need for labor decreases)

Markos

June 23, 2009 07:33 PM

Wake up ,Americans .You have a failed social economic model.Free yourselves first from being debt-slaves.Stop fighting for Bankster's freedom and democracy.Fight for an independent , free media,get rid of banksters funded media outlets.

billd

June 23, 2009 07:50 PM

Massive unemployment spawns social unrest. We are getting very close to this now in California. Expect the riots to erupt before the end of the year.

Jane

June 23, 2009 07:52 PM

Well, let's see, first we gave away all the electronic manufacturing jobs to Japan, then we gave away all the labor intensive manufacturing jobs to China(and the rest of Asia), automated the remaining ones; Gave away half of our IT jobs to India, imported over a million of them to come in and take the other half; Gave away all our farm, construction, landscaping, housekeeping, restaurant jobs to illegals from Mexico...

When the manufacturing jobs started to disappear, people went into construction, distribution, transportation, retail, or simply went back to school to be retrained for IT and Finance. Then the dotcom bust and outsourcing killed off job prospects for IT grads, and we turned to Finance and Real Estate. Now that Wall Street and Real Estate have imploded, dragging with it Retail, distribution, what's left of manufacturing, construction...what else is left?

The government!

jbm_thestateofaffairs.com

June 23, 2009 08:16 PM

The disparity between the public and private graphs represents citizen stress; the stress that the middle class person on the left chart feels as they financially support the people on the right chart. It is becoming crushing as the middle class wanes in favor of a large upper-lower class.

In addition, this disparity represents the ultimate bankruptcy of the United States of America. This chart does not even include the burden of social security. Despite anyone's feeling that the U.S. will have a vibrant economy again, because it always has, these charts point directly at disaster.

I suppose ten or twenty years from now, just as with the current crisis, someone will say, "A handful of people actually said we would have a disaster. No one believed it could happen in the United States."

Unfortunately, if one can add two plus two, the tale these charts tell should be obvious.

Yoav

June 23, 2009 08:39 PM

Wow, over 5 million jobs were lost in manufacturing, yet so many new jobs in government services and social services? What for, exactly?

Michelle

June 23, 2009 08:42 PM

This is all a result of globalization. The "growth jobs" which were the areas that were supposed to take up the slack when maturing industries went away have been outsourced to India. Somebody needs to offshore all these brilliant economists like the supply side Larry Kudlow and Greg Mankew before the entire country implodes.

atlasraging

June 23, 2009 08:48 PM

What this chart shows is the effect of progressive socialist policies in the United States. The policy of having your cake and eating your neighbors too is going to lead to economic disaster. With the coming effect of the Obama fiscal policies in the near future...can you spell hyperinflation leading to depression..and when it takes root here then the spread to the rest of the globe which will lead to WAR. If you think capitalism is bad, and profits are bad....wait til you get of taste of poverty and war...thanks progressives and socialists for your efforts....but when the mob comes to your house don't say you didn't mean it...altruism kills...socialism kills...progressivism kills....and so it will be....

Fed Up

June 23, 2009 08:50 PM

Of course, now the drumbeat is about "shortages" in health care workers and the "need" for foreigners on H1B/L1 or even special nursing visas.

There was a story this week in BW on the "nursing shortage". The story indicated 500,000 trained US nurses have left the field due to low pay and poor working conditions. Furthermore, there are 10s of thousands of qualified eager US students trying in vain to get into nursing programs. Yet, Americans are still told we "need" nursing visas for foreigners to alleviate the "nursing shortage"

This makes me wonder how long until Indian outsourcers begin garnering the lions share of these visas while offering "healthcare services". Then the Indian outsourcing lobby (NASSCOM/TiE/Immigration Voice/USINPAC) will begin spewing vitriol at anyone who dares raise questions screaming "racist", "protectionist", or "xenophobe"!

Then, we'll hear threats of a "trade war" should the US even think about reigning in abuses of the "nursing visas".

Exactly how IMMIGRATION policy has become conflated with TRADE is difficult to fathom.

The obvious conclusion is that the policy of exporting manufacturing, outsourcing services and insourcing H1B/L1 foreigners on "temporary non immigrant" visas has been a disaster for America. If this is "globalization" then it's an utter failure.

GLOBALization requires ever larger legions of "highly skilled" foreigners Americans are told. Yet, 70%+ of the insourced foreigners are Indian. In a world of 203 countries and with India representing 16% of the worlds population, how is this GLOBALization?

What's more, the MASS immigration Americans are told is a prerequisite for 21st century economic success doesn't seem to apply to China, India, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. ONLY western nations are excoriated for "racism" for even debating designing immigration in the interests of citizens.

Granted a corporations objective is to maximize profits, but public policy (H1B/L1/Immigration/Taxes on outsourcers) should have the objective of maximizing opportunities and security for Americans.

Bottom line; the graphs in this story show why globalization (as its been practiced in recent decades) is a sham. Rising immigration from "temporary" guest workers who never leave (as guests are supposed to do) in the midst of rising joblessness is a recipe for an escalating BACKLASH!

bitter but somehow still employed

June 23, 2009 09:22 PM

Jane @ 7:53pm is right on the money.

Global corporations are gutting us and giving all our jobs and innovations (that made them prosper!) to countries on the other side of the world who work for next to nothing. So we have to train them to do our jobs so they can take them, and like parasites they eat it up. And they can't do the jobs as well by a long shot. Yet on paper the bean counters think it saves them money.

Global corporations are good to your pocket for a while, but I'm not sure they are good for national economies long term.

We are born into bodies and are citizens of a country. A corporation is a soul-less "body", an entity for accounting purposes (think latin prefixes, "corp-"). It has no loyalty to an individual or any country and its very reason for existance is to prosper only its own growth and power. If people acted that way they wouldn't survive long because of social pressures. So corporations use you up (and your country), chew it up and spit you out.

Strategery

June 23, 2009 09:30 PM

Wow, where are all of these pro-globalization, pro-'free' trade and pro-immigration types that frequent these articles? Did this article wake them up?

It would be interesting to also see a chart that reflected the falling real wages over the same time period.

The data speaks for itself. 1940's-60's were America's economic heyday, despite restrictive trade. The 1990's were ok, until the effects of NAFTA set in. Clinton and Bush sold us out to China around 2000; the final nail in the coffin. The USA cannot be a nation that does not make anything, even though the economists keep telling us to outsource industries that (we think) we don't want and to allow immigrants to fill jobs that Americans supposedly will not do. They also say that we should continue living an affluent lifestyle (with imported products) on borrowed money to save the economy.

No doubt the US population and workforce has rose by 10-20 times more than the jobs. This suggest that more people are being supported by fewer workers (children and retirees). I do not think that is sustainable.

Strategery

June 23, 2009 09:58 PM

atlasraging, I bet a WWIII would be sort lived (unless it went nuclear). With globalization, no single country will be able to support a war effort when their supply chains extend to enemy countries. The US would need oil from many areas that would quickly become our enemies (would Mexico be an ally or enemy? We import oil from them. Would 'neutral' countries cut off our supply?). Metals are sourced from around the world, like steel in China and copper from Chile. Heavy manufacturing is in Korea, other manufacturing is in China. Electronics (for our high-tech weaponry) is scattered throughout Asia. Food is traded as different growing regions hit different seasons, and domestic production uses a lot of oil. Our engineers would be from Europe and India. I don't think the US could pull itself together enough to take care of all these industries, and we cannot count very many countries as allies to help us with the effort.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 10:25 PM

I can't believe the garbage I am reading from xenophobic bigots like Fed Up.

He doesn't know the difference between skilled and unskilled immigration, or between legal and illegal immigration. The drug dealer from El Salvador and the Indian PhD scientiest are one and the same to him.

Somehow, there is a belief that if immigrants are kept out, the job will stay in America. That the job itself can leave America if the candidate is in India is not considered by these fools.

Immigration = the immigrant spending money and paying taxes in the US. Less immigration means the jobs leave the US altogether. Opinion's like Fed Ups are what has caused America trouble.

The US should allow unlimited immigration to all people with a bachelor's degree from an accredited university (the US can maintain a list of universities by country). That would bring in 1 million well-educated immigrants into the US each year, which will solve every problem from a housing bust to consumer spending to the Social Security shortfall to an aging population.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 10:30 PM

Yoav,

"Wow, over 5 million jobs were lost in manufacturing, yet so many new jobs in government services and social services? What for, exactly?"

Read what I wrote about the government policy to transfer wealth from men through women, under a variety of cloaked means.

Kartik

June 23, 2009 10:30 PM

Yoav,

"Wow, over 5 million jobs were lost in manufacturing, yet so many new jobs in government services and social services? What for, exactly?"

Read what I wrote about the government policy scheme to transfer wealth from men to women, under a variety of cloaked means.

Bob

June 23, 2009 10:36 PM

While a 10 year period is a nice, round number, it obscures the impact of politics on the numbers.

During the period 1993-2000, Non-farm employment, less all government, grew 21%. From the period 1999-2001, the same sectors grew 1.9%. However, from 2001-2009 those same sectors declined 1%.

Another consideration is the growth of government contracting, defense and non-defense, since 2001 which will appear as "private" sector spending but, even more than education and health, is government driven.

lark

June 23, 2009 10:50 PM

Wow, that some folks think that govt is the problem! We've turned ourselves into a nation of YesSirWhatEverYouWantSir b*tt kissers for business and given the corporate sector license to kill us, and you think that high corporate taxes are the problem?

Wow.

I think if Americans had the guts to stand up for themselves, we wouldn't be letting ourselves be destroyed by this thuggish style of capitalism. You don't have to live this way. Look at the Iranians. Now that's inspiring. But here in the USA we just eat the corporate B.S.

mark

June 23, 2009 11:29 PM

There are about 140,000,000 jobs in the US. Your second graph shows a total of about 3.5M new jobs, that's 2%, not the 1.1% in your graph. Your numbers don't add up.

Unemployment in the last eight months has gone from 4.5% to 9.4%, that's almost 5% laid off, 7,000,000 jobs. So, near the bottom of a recession, short 7M private sector jobs, today is the day you look at 10 year job creation? Today is the day you choose to claim that the private sector has created 1M net new jobs in the last 10 years?

You and your statistics are equally full of it.

Fed Up

June 23, 2009 11:42 PM

It must also be noted that US worksites operated by Indian outsourcers are staffed with Indians ONLY. No American Need Apply to any US worksite operated by Indian outsoucers. Anti-discrimination laws don't apply to them--even though the worksites are on US soil.

Witness the reaction of the Indian outsourcing lobby to the proposed Durbin-Grassley H1B/L1 reform bill that would mandate any company operating on US soil, with 50 or more employees, hire at least 50% American citizens or green card holders ("permanent resident alien" status) .

The Indian outsourcing looby--NASSCOM/TiE/Immigration Voice/USINPAC/etc is screaming "protectionism", "racism" and "xenophobia" and even threatening a trade war with the US!

This is what we can expect if/when Indian outsourcers make US "nursing visas" part of their business model and start offering "healthcare services" in US markets.

Fed Up

June 24, 2009 01:05 AM

Kartik;

H1B/L1/F1 are "temporary NON-IMMIGRANT" visas. By definition, holders of these visas are NOT "immigrants". Only persons awarded "PERMANENT resident alien status" (aka green cards) qualify for the title of legal IMMIGRANT.

Don't tell me that because an H1B/L1 has APPLIED for a green card that they are now immigrants either. If I apply to Yale, does that act in and of itself make me a Yalie? Does the person in say Manila who APPLIES for a green card metamorphose into a US immigrant (green card holder)?

H1B is specifically a TEMPORARY guest worker visa--guests are supposed to go home.

"Persons of Extraordinary Ability" have their own visa category, the O-1 visa which has no quotas.

Senate bill 2. 887 , the Durbin-Grassley H1B/L1 visa reform bill, mandates that any company (including Indian outsourcers) operating on US soil with over 50 employees be limited to 50% H1B/L1 "temporary non immigrant" visas. The other 50% should be US citizens or green cards holders. This is the so called 50-50 provision of the Durbin-Grassley H1B/L1 visa reform bill. If this is "bigotry", then the word is not a pejorative.

Are you suggesting it's NOT bigotry for Indian outsourcers operating on US soil to hire Indians ONLY?

Your claims that H1B/L1 doesn't mean US jobs losses and that restricting H1B/L1 would is refuted by the words of Tata Consultancy Services Vice President Vice President Phiroz Vandrevala;

"Our wage per employee is 20-25 per cent less than US wages for a similar employee...Typically, for a TCS employee with five years experience, the annual cost to the company is $60,000-70,000, while a local American employee might cost $80,000-100,000. This (labour arbitrage) is a fact of doing work onsite. It's a fact that Indian IT companies have an advantage here and there's nothing wrong in that. The issue is that of getting workers in the US on wages far lower than the local wage rate."

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=cda81c51-7247-4c2a-8e36-2414c5f9686c&ParentID=ea3188ae-1933-4afd-81e1-a89d979dbeee&&Headline=H-1B+visa+holders+paid+less+in+US

As well as the words of India's commerce minister, Kamal Nath;

"It has become the outsourcing visa," the Indian commerce minister, Kamal Nath, said by telephone while attending global trade talks in New Delhi, at which India is pushing the United States for a larger H-1B quota.

"If at one point you had X amount of outsourcing," he said, "and now you have a much higher quantum of outsourcing, you need that many more visas."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/business/worldbusiness/12iht-visa.4.5257621.html?_r=1

The American people are the owners of the USA. We want professional jobs and college educations for our OWN teeming masses. If that's bigotry; China, India, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc are the biggest bigots of ALL!

The US has stagnant job growth, 1.1% over the last decade. Millions face foreclosure, U6 unemployment (which includes person involuntarily working part time and "discouraged workers") stands at 16%, trillion dollar deficits, etc--and you have the AUDACITY to cry "bigotry" at anyone who dares raise questions about your dreams of an open borders USA...for Indians?

I assume you don't mean open borders for Hispanics given your overt hostility to them--all while crying about "bigotry" no less.

Finally, former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan let the cat out of the bag in regards to H1B/L1 "temporary non immigrant" visas;

"Our skilled wages are higher than anywhere in the world," he said. "If we open up a significant window for skilled workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end the concentration of income."

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/

Ajay

June 24, 2009 04:36 AM

Gotta agree with Mark, by looking at these job numbers at the bottom of the cycle, you're really distorting the perspective. I'm sure there was similar hand-wringing in '63, only for the numbers to shoot above the '50s average for the next 4 decades. The problem is that the next boom was supposed to be tech but it never happened cuz the techies were too dumb to deploy micropayments. Meanwhile, the govt sector did its thing, the leviathan further choking growth over time. We got some added efficiency from outsourcing and IT in the meantime but that doesn't add US jobs, so the idiots who put job statistics above all else are unhappy.

Mike Reardon

June 24, 2009 05:06 AM

The all time Dow high was in October 07 14164, the Dow low 7062 February 09 one month into the New Administration. Housing construction from 2004 out into 07 was above 1.8 million units and mall construction hit all time highs. And US auto industry highs also came in those years. And finance gave investors the greatest profits ever generated. All of these (except autos), that’s about five of your negative industries hit all time returns only to crash down when liquidity was pulled out of the markets. They had transactional substance that the market would allow, and they had the liquidity to keep them in place throughout the 8 years Bush was in power. Even the final $5 trillion deficit from Bush was OK. In hindsight they were not just bubbles, they were geodesic domes of financial manipulation.

Then in the middle of 2008 the Banks crashed it by stopping orderly banking. That is what generates your negative chart above. In that decade we transitioned to a different kind of economy.

We are now a service and retail nation that imports its cheap products with global trade and sells them at inflated prices that give inflated returns to investors. We now need a new domestic employment geodesic dome to work in, because you can’t get rich if your job is producing things found in the dollar store.

Richard Florida has the equation that the top 30% produce 60% of the wealth, the other 70% generate only 40% of the nations income. View those number above with that equation in mind when you try to return decent employment into the nation or solve social security. Don’t knock any Gov spending, it’s the only tendon that still pulls money into the markets.

1503

June 24, 2009 06:28 AM

@JohnB, I resume your mind ' Security/ military, health, education, public pensions ...they can't grow without some other's form of industry supporting them. But it's to late to stop them for the moment, they have now the power to taxes .
@Mike Reardon,...the us top 30% produce 60% of the wealth,with the help of the Hindu top 30% , and the help of the China top 30% ... here is the new deal ? with the end of the us low middle-class , and the creation of an us-BRIC up middle class ?

American Patriot

June 24, 2009 08:20 AM

This is so funny.

You all are now learning you have been lied to about unemployment figures and the size and affect of outsourcing.

$300 Billion Dollars in outsourced jobs now. IBM has sent 74,000 jobs just to India. There re thousands just like this.

This is what happens when you do nothing about your Government giving tax breaks to Companies to send jobs overseas. NONE of you protested until it affects you, then it's to late.

This New president will not envoke Executive Privliage to make Outsourcing illeagal or stop it.

Outsourcing has caused the collpas of the Home and Auto industry.

Just keep in mind, until Companies all over the US are Leagally forced to bring jobs back.

This country and economy is going down and will stay down.

I spoke to the Department of Labor and asked why they add NO outsourcing numbers to the Job Loss Quarterly reports. Also they do not add any oputsourcing numbers to the unemployment rate. When I asked nicely and started quoting numbers.

The woman at the Federal Department of Labor, HUNG UP ON ME.
No longer would answer the phone.

Unemployment rate is at least 20% and the Department of Labor knows this and has been instructed not to release this information.

OUTSOURCING, Corporate Americans dirty little secret.

THEER WILL BE NO NEW WELL PAYING JOBS HERE

Steven

June 24, 2009 08:47 AM

The one upside to all this is, it is the US Middle Class Comsummer that supports the World Markets. This is why the World's Economy (not just the US) is suffering. Our last President (MBA from Harvard Business School) thought it was a great idea for free trade agrements with Asia and off shore high paying Middle Class jobs. What no one seemed to consider is the Middle Class American was supporting the Worlds Economy by buying all that junk. Now that we are history, let the World's Economy Collaspe.

TOM W.

June 24, 2009 12:17 PM

Doesn't make sense. Up until the financial crisis took hold and layoffs began last January, you could get a job anywhere. Unemployment was low. So what did people who got out of school do?
Just not bother? Something's flawed in this study.

Mark

June 24, 2009 02:49 PM

If unemployment was measured as it was in the 70s/80s it would be mid 13%s

Govt has been making 'adjustments' (both parties) since early 90s... i.e. if you don't look "actively" for work for 4 weeks POOF! You are not unemployed. A few other things like this so you can believe in business as usual.

http://www.fundmymutualfund.com/2009/06/real-may-unemployment-rate-reaches-134.html

Dan

June 24, 2009 02:53 PM

This article does not take into account the huge rise in the number of self-employed over the last ten years.

http://entrepreneurs.suite101.com/article.cfm/no_jobs_mean_rise_in_selfemployment

Mike Mandel

June 24, 2009 03:52 PM

Unfortunately, the number of self-employed workers has barely risen from 8.7 million in May 1999 to 9.0 million in May 2009.

1503

June 24, 2009 04:03 PM

Hindu and China are ready for an up around 7/8% in 2010 ...
The same for Algeria ... At the same time ,in US/EU just one word 'taxes'.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=BusinessSectionPage&id=603328be-0df7-41d0-9224-ddbe6c767a70&Headline=India+set+to+grow+faster+than+China+in+2010%3a+Report

tom

June 24, 2009 04:28 PM

You sent all the jobs overseas yourself, with your wallets. Every time you choose to save a few bucks buying the cheap imported product over the more expensive (due to labor and other costs) version made in the US. Fortunately with all the debt the US is racking up and borrowing it is doing, the value of the US dollar will crash making these imports too expensive. You may be forced into manufacturing "stuff" in the USA again!

Kartik

June 24, 2009 05:18 PM

Brandon W asked :

" What's more, if the tax rates in the United States are so very ominous, why aren't corporations leaving in droves; why aren't they relocating wholesale to low-tax countries?"

Surely you know that most US corporations are registered in Ireland, Bermuda, etc. If they are registered in the US at all, it is in Delaware.

US corporations have been moving their employees out of the US all this time. HP has reduced 50,000 jobs in the US even while adding 80,000 in China + India. I don't blame them one bit for doing this - their competitors do it.

Within the US, jobs leak out of CA and into AZ, NV, and TX. Same reason : taxes.

Personal income and sales taxes are also a major factor here, so I don't know why you chose to include only corporate taxes. Actually, I do know why...

Jon

June 24, 2009 05:26 PM

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/tg119.htm

It isn't so much the tax rate as the existence of strong tax incentives for U.S. corporations to invest in expanding productive capacity *elsewhere*.

These amount to tax subsidies for outsourcing. You read that right: 100's of Billions of increased tax payer burden to send their jobs overseas. Bush you very much.

DM

June 24, 2009 07:52 PM

Hmmmm... May 1999... when was that? Oh, at, or near, the peak of the .com boom, one of our great economic expansions. An May 2009... that's... hmmm.. near at at the bottom of a large recession. God bless... think that has an impact?

AC

June 24, 2009 08:56 PM

Wow. Now, I know the REAL reason as to why I couldn't find a job during the years 2000 - 2009 except for temporary and part-time work. Do you know what this sounds like? It sounds like the corporate pigs were living off of Uncle Sam's money rather than doing something innovative to create jobs. I hear offshoring and trade deficits as the unintended consequences of bad government policies. Shouldn't our current administration do something about that rather than attempt to put a band-aid fix to the matter. In 2010-2012, I may change my mind on who to vote for next if things don't improve.

EOS

June 24, 2009 09:02 PM

Jan. 99 there was a recession going on but at the same time the Dot coms were going strong.
Next thing you know 9/11 and then the dot coms burst along w/ the depression in the telecom markets. The telecom market has never come back from that crash. The only strong markets have been the housing and military build up for Afghanistan and Iraq. Since I was in the telecom market, I lived through the reduced wages and lay-offs. Most of the tech areas in Dallas, San Jose, and Denver can verify these stats. The US hasn't had anything yet that has replaced the temporary housing boom or even the high tech bust. Until that happens, the govt will be the big employer and I hate to see that happen.

ScottD

June 24, 2009 10:56 PM

I think the charts speak very clearly to the size of the shock to the labor markets. Would it be worthwhile to chart the 10yr rolling change in the working age population (16-65?) as well? The working age population did not grow at the same rate throughout the sample period shown.

logic

June 24, 2009 11:02 PM

Thank you Michael for coming round. I've been a critic of yours in the past, as you're an optimist and I'm not, but I am glad you're saying it like it is now. The sad fact is, young people in America are screwed.

cm

June 25, 2009 01:17 AM

EOS: The dotcom bust was not causally related to 9/11, it started one year prior. 9/11 and the "Western" reaction to it of course had a macroeconomic impact that probably exacerbated the dotcom bust.

1503

June 25, 2009 09:19 AM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdRpyfEmBE

Watch Milton Friedman just from 13:10 to 13:41 ... about the housing market.

JD

June 25, 2009 11:48 AM

OMG, the sky is falling! Buy gold before the sun goes nova! I'm moving to Iceland! UN economist last year said it was the best place to live.

DR

June 25, 2009 01:52 PM

Mike,

How about showing a study for wage increases/benefits for private vs public for the past 10 years?

I bet you will find another "surprise".

Brandon W

June 25, 2009 01:57 PM

Kartik,
Where do those corporations pay most of their taxes? How many "U.S." companies have their primary incorporation outside the U.S.? Why do some "high-tax" states like Massachusetts, Connecticut, Texas, and Vermont unemployment rates well below the national average, while low-tax states like North Carolina and South Carolina have far above average unemployment? Maybe there is more to it than tax rate? Perhaps the infrastructure and talent pools of a given region do matter. Better educated people require better school systems (which cost money). Better infrastructure costs more money. Better legal structures can very well cost more money. You get what you pay for, and not only are states competing against one another but nations compete against one another. In the end, most American companies are staying in the U.S. even if they have manufacturing operations in another country. The product the U.S. is offering must be worth the price.

One of the key reasons companies are going to other countries is because of the overall lower cost of hiring employees. In most other countries a company doesn't have to provide health care coverage; something they do in the U.S. at ever-exploding rates. Also, the cost of oil is so low that it makes it cheaper to produce items in China and ship them in huge ships across the ocean. Oil is badly under-priced and has been for a very long time (my calculations put the more accurate price at around $275/bbl). If and when oil finally rises to a rational price it'll make a lot less sense to make things on the other side of the ocean. Even at $120/bbl it was starting to make an impact. My point, more than anything, is that globalisation and the outsourcing of jobs are dramatically more complex than simply the tax rate.

ffn

June 25, 2009 05:16 PM

During the era of the greatest expansion of globalization and innovation in U.S. history, our private sector economy has collapsed. This suggests that economists and their theories about globalization and being good for the ordinary US citizen are significantly flawed. (I'm sure that globalization is good for the financial oligarchs, but for the people?)

On the issue of free markets, there is not a CEO alive in America today that, by their actions, believes in free markets. Every one of them is pleading for bail outs, tax breaks, government grants, protectionist measures both international and domestic, favorable zoning changes, laws to require use of their products or services, laws or regulations to harm their competitors, and so on. Free markets have become a myth.

Today I feel that what we were taught in MBA school about globalization (benefits everyone) and free markets (they no longer exist) proved to be ideological dogma or propaganda of the oligarchs.

Thomas

June 25, 2009 05:27 PM

This is really more old news from Businessweek. Mike Stathis discussed this in 2006 in his book. People willo always be chasing their tail if they rely on the media for insight.

Andrew C.

June 25, 2009 05:40 PM

Yeap, Stathis is the only man I listen to. He has no agendas, isn't trying to sell investment and refuses to sell out to the media. That's why they've censored him. Have a look at a passage from an article he wrote a couple of months ago, "It's Time to Face the Facts Part 2."

Fact #5. Most of the Lost Jobs Will Not Return.

What no one seems to understand is the fact that these job losses are not temporary. Most of them simply aren’t coming back. I’ll guarantee it.

The only jobs that will return are those that no one wants; the low-paying, no benefit, dead-end jobs.

It’s the same situation that played out after the dotcom collapse. This is part of the reason why there’s been no real recovery since 2001. As I discussed in “America’s Financial Apocalypse,” it was all an illusion fueled by a real estate bubble. It was another one of Greenspan’s bubble.

And now Bernanke is creating his first bubble. But all bubbles eventually burst.

If one examines the data, since 2002 the vast majority of jobs created have been from the government and military.

Furthermore, millions of lost white collar workers have had to settle for jobs for which they are overqualified and underpaid.

Already, this has led to an underemployment rate of around 25% by my estimates. These trends will continue due to the toxic effects of America’s unfair free trade policies.

The implosion of these economic bubbles has only hastened the effects of free trade. And you should expect the cycle of economic booms and busts to persist indefinitely as long as the Federal Reserve runs the show.

Washington will keep pumping in more money; as much as it takes for Obama to stack the odds in his favor for reelection.

And yes, we will see a turnaround. But it will be an illusion and it won’t last. This is why Obama’s ridiculous budget calls for funding millions of useless government jobs.

http://www.avaresearch.com/article_details-155.html

It seems to me these reporters are reading Stathis' expert commentaries and using his material for themselves.

It wouldn't surpise me. The media is a joke.

Dave B

June 25, 2009 10:11 PM

Well now we don't need to worry about illegal immigration. Emigration will be the problem.......

Dr.Dan

June 26, 2009 01:08 AM

Dr. Mandel,

Over last 2 years, you have been only showing US HOUSEHOLD WEALTH charts...over and over again.

Why werent you showing the employment charts...when it has been poor for over a decade ?

WHY NOW ?

RaZz

June 26, 2009 01:36 AM

Tell me how this math works please...
Unemployment in 1999: 9.4%
Population growth 1999 to 2009: 30M (11%)
Job Growth 1999 to 2009: 3.5M
Unemployment in 2009: 7.2%
WTF?

Mike Mandel

June 26, 2009 10:36 AM

Dr. Dan


A fair question. Back in 2006 I wrote a cover story about health care jobs, where I pointed out that healthcare had accounted for all the private sector job growth since 2000. So I had the numbers, and I published the numbers. It wasn't quite as stark, though.

cm

June 26, 2009 11:41 AM

RaZz: "Unemployed" does not mean the same thing as "jobless" or "not employed" (in the strict sense of being somebody's employee).

In the US, "unemployed" means roughly "not working, looking for a job, being able and available to start working on short notice, and having ACTIVELY looked for one within the last 4 weeks" - just browsing job boards doesn't qualify, you need to have been in contact with actual employers. And strictly speaking this is measured by surveying and extrapolating from 50000 or 60000 households, where the validity of the sample has been contended, esp. the aspect of allegedly underrepresenting high-unemployment populations or areas.

And then we have the concept of growing temp/contract/part-time arrangements, where several people may effectively "share" the same jobs - either working different shifts, or alternating contractors for stretches of several months. Several states have laws meant to limit abuse of "permanent temps" where "compliance" usually takes the form of specified timeouts (e.g. 3 months between assignments) or herding temps through subcontractors/agencies. A good number of employers have found ways to work this scheme, and in general how to switch from all-employees to a mix of core employees and and project contractors.

LAO

June 26, 2009 02:39 PM

Michael, Have you seen Jeffrey Immelt's (GE) speech in Michigan today?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124603518881261729.html

You would think that the man had been reading your recent articles and this blog, maybe even actually absorbing some of our comments.

For once, I had to put the cynicism aside for a moment -- this speech actually brought tears to my eyes. I asked Jack Welch via BW a few years ago whose work I should be reading to not believe that the highest paid business, academic and government leaders in the world can come up with nothing better than how to quietly rob the home nest. Of course he did not respond, and I have had little luck in finding anything that didn't feed my despair for this nation. Too bad GE is trying to dump their appliances -- today I might have been inspired to run out and buy one.

lyfbldr

June 26, 2009 11:13 PM

I see a lot of commentators making the case that globalization and its consequences like outsourcing are the culprits for the loss of jobs here in the US. I have a couple of points to make.

1. The data presented is very short term, just 10 years. This makes it very difficult to come to any conclusion regarding the causes for this phenomenon. Consider this, manufacuturing started moving away from US for close to three decades now (Does any one remember that manufacturing started being outsourced approximately about 20 to 25 years back?)

2. When we say Asian manufacuturers or Asian service providers taking away all the jobs, we neglect the fact that it was US corporations which outsourced these activities.

Don't blame those asian manufacturers and service providers, the culprits were US corporations which were able to raise their profitability a notch or two by this. Ofcourse the biggest culprit is your own friendly, neighbourhood house representative / senator who created so many loopholes in the law which enabled such activities to happen. These were also the same people who passed laws which enabled corporations to establish off-shore entities which could route profits so they are not taxable, thus leading to reduced government income. As can be surmised, this will lead to lower quality of services disseminated to the general population.

Unfortunately, in a system which is an oligopoly for political parties, as a common citizen, you do not have any way of getting a third opinion.

cm

June 27, 2009 06:35 PM

Lyfbldr: I hope you are not trying to attack a straw man. Nobody here has said that Asian businesses are taking away US jobs. Quite on the contrary, most have specifically pointed out that US businesses have moved those jobs offshore.

Tom S

June 28, 2009 10:16 AM

if the numbers mean what they imply, this is a very important secular trend,
1. do the numbers leave out illegals (?) who have flooded into the US the past 10 years--plus more people are working off the books -- would legal plus informal employment numbers show the same result?
2. technology is displacing jobs, especially high end jobs; takes 35 years between a breakthrough and full deployment of that breakthrough -- computers and PCs became big during the 70's and 80's, now is just about time for them to become fully deployed. This recession has forced a rapid conversion to using technology, also made it socially acceptable to reduce employee count, because bottom lines were threatened by falling sales. a workerless recovery would not be a surprise.
3. Jobs are moving offshore, or rather the new jobs are being created offshore -- the ones that would have been created in the US 20-40 years ago?
4. the growing industries are government, health care, education, and tourism. At some point the value-producing US enterprises will not be able to afford the cost of these industries -- in fact this readjustment could be starting with this recession.

cm

June 28, 2009 01:37 PM

Tom S - as for (4), this has been long the case. The debt bubbles of the last few decades served the function of "closing" that gap.

Doug

June 30, 2009 10:00 PM

How do we discourage the outsourcing of good manufacturing jobs to China, India, etc. and encourage the creation of good manufacturing jobs in the U.S.?

1503

July 1, 2009 12:17 PM

@Doug .
Technology and demographic trends are displacing jobs from US/EU to BRIC.
In US/EU , Technology displace jobs from men to women .
The Warefare displace money from your pocket to another pocket .
The solutions :
-put all your money into the mining sector.
-Search a job in the public sector.
Just one way to discourage the outsourcing = no taxes !

IPlaw

July 5, 2009 11:41 PM

Yeah 1503, giving money to the wealthiest people will pull us right out of the depression. What an idiot. What color is the sky in your Republican world?

1503

July 7, 2009 07:14 PM

@Iplaw, For you :
http://www.olympus.net/personal/dwren/2002-adams.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

Markus

July 8, 2009 10:00 AM

Arnold Kling also has some interesting thoughts on his blog:
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/07/jobless_recover.html

Rob

August 2, 2009 11:11 AM

Q. How do we discourage the outsourcing of good manufacturing jobs to China, India, etc. and encourage the creation of good manufacturing jobs in the U.S.?

A. You can't undo economic reality, specialization benefits both parties. BUT, we can limit immigration to match job growth and we can limit "faux-immigration" H1B's from pulling down the wages in highly specialized fields. This article on seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/article/153168-eye-on-unemployment-should-the-u-s-stop-immigration?source=feed) confirms what I have experienced anecdotally over the last ten years - wages are flat in IT, jobs are much harder to get, but the H1B quotas are pushed to the absolute limit every year.

Dr. Gene Nelson

August 3, 2009 07:50 AM

In the interest of brevity, I suggest that BusinessWeek readers locate David Hunkar's 02 August 2009 article, "Eye on Unemployment: Should the U.S. Stop Immigration?" at Seeking Alpha (cited in the above comment.) I have posted comments in support of the policy advocated in the title of David Hunkar's essay. A key resource is "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit" at http://tinyurl.com/37l8ry. See also "Career Destruction Factories" at http://tinyurl.com/nn28sp

VMalone

September 14, 2009 05:05 AM

Well I often wonder where we'd be as a country if H.Ross Perot had won that election... Remember the big issue of that time??? Well we're living it now! NAFTA; Remember what he said about NAFTA... 'That Great Big Sucking Sound.. there well be no jobs left in this country...'. Well that's where we are! That nightmare has come true, Mr. Perot where are you.

Willie

November 25, 2009 08:01 PM

GE is sending hundreds if not thousands of jobs to China before the end of 2009.

Companies like this disgust me when they say they are on of the most admired companied. Thanks GE for sending our jobs to communist countries along with technology we will buy back with our Mcdonalds paychecks. So I won't be making any money to buy your goods.

Ricksterherpa

December 8, 2009 05:43 PM

I note that as is often the case when reading an elite blog, whether Left, Right, or Center, unless the specific discussion is about a Presidential decision, people forget that we have been at war since September 2001 and that war is something carried out and conducted by the Government. In 2001 military spending was 3% of GDP, now it is about 4.1% of GDP. In addition, a lot of jobs were added for Homeland Security. It was necessary proably to do some of it, but it was also deliberately part of Osama bin Laden's plan to use a few dozen fanatics to cause us to spend hundreds of billions to defend against him and thereby economically weaken ourselves.

As much as we complain about companies outsourcing, we expect as investors that companies earn the largest profit possible by reducing their costs. A technical invention, the internet, allows lots of back office work, including high skill and high creative work like R&D, law, advertising, and the like to be performed anywhere in the world. It was this, and China's entry into the WTO, which just made it appear non-sensical for companies to reinvest in the United States, but rather invest and shift work to low cost, high skill workers in Asia. Of course now they are discovering the problem, now that the illusion of the housing bubble hid for six years has popped, that a middle class declining to near poverty level, even for what use to be highly skilled work, is a much smaller, less lucrative market. Immigrants are a nice scapegoat (when in doubt, blame those strange looking, strange talking furners! as been a tradition in the U.S. since "No Irish Need Apply" signs were common).

kramer

December 27, 2009 10:20 AM

Do these bleak numbers include the jobs sent offshore (i.e. do offshored jobs subtract from the job growth)?

I can see how Bush would get the blame for this since it's happened under his watch. However, it was Clinton and the DNC who received illegal contributions from the communist Chinese government to which Clinton paid China back by granting them PNTR (most favored nation trading status). It seems as if the number of jobs offshored accelerated after China got PNTR.

By the way, another thing that Clinton (and Gore) did after receive that money was to try and get the US to sign onto Kyoto. Cass Sunstein has said that it's possible the US would have paid up to 80% of the costs of Kyoto and that the major recipient would probably have been China.

Nice to know that the DNC can be so easily bought at the detriment to America.

frankspeak

January 6, 2010 02:46 PM

Who said we are entitled to live the 50's fantasy "American Dream". That's over. We get what we sow. The last 8 to 10 years were dismal, because it was business as usual, run by the idealogues, Cold Warriors, big business that raped, plundered and pillaged for profit at all cost, the behind closed doors, under the table deals, in the "name of national security" that set the tone for greed to the power brokers resembling the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, and the Gettys. Trickle down my ass! After they pick the bones clean. So think, be smart, ambitious, goal oriented. Create, invent, build, sell. Take charge of your own destiny. CHANGE IS GOOD!

frankspeak

January 7, 2010 09:19 AM


IT WAS UNDER BUSH'S WATCH! If Bush thought (about anything) that was a detriment to this country and its citizens, he would have changed it. He had the authority to do so, but he didn't. It's easier to just blame the previous administration for all of the ills that plagued America in the last 10 years. TEN YEARS! You are admitting by your accusation that Bush did nothing but wallow in Clinton policies. And now you can give the Bush administration another pass at shirking his responsibility and start blaming Obama. Pathetic. Remember the slogan "The Buck Stops Here!"

Harry Dingey

January 20, 2010 12:02 PM

I was hired in Dec-1956 at Rockwell International in Newark, Ohio. I worked for seven years on the shop floor as a Machining Inspector and attended Business college half-day to get my college education.

Then after I got my 4-year college degree, I was hired as an Industrial Engineer in the front office and had to go back to college to take a few more mathematical subjects.

Then I worked the rest of my thirty years as a Department head over an Industrial Engineer Department in the front office at Rockwell International at Newark, Ohio.

So, when it comes to understanding how NAFTA and the WTO are screwing the American Workers I understand only to well.

Let me say one thing about all this Globalism and the ONE WORLD ORDER.

There is no way this concept of Globalize can never work for very long because they are pushing on a string.

Why do you say that?

Whenever an employer succeeds in depriving the workers who are producing any given product a fair and living wage. Just like they have been doing for the last 15 years.

Then that employer will at some point in time, will run out of people who can afford to purchase the very products being produced.

All the Good American Jobs have been moved off shore to China, the American workers have been laid off, American wage scales has been push down by illegal immigrants and credit cards maxed out.

The Chinese workers are working for slave labor at $2/day.

We cannot continue sending good jobs off shore to China when the American workers and their families are standing in growing SOUP LINES.

That is exactly where we are right now.

President Obama and all these other Globalist Politicians have voted for all of the humongous bailouts that will only temporarily support their Globalize policies then the bottom will fall out.

Bailouts will not correct the America’s Trade Deficits and the dislocation from the lost of American good Jobs sent off shore to China.

The truth is only a small proportion of this bailout money was ever directed to CREATE new JOBS in America. Most of the money was given to CFR cronies like International Bankers and the Wall Street Gangsters, the very people that created this DEPRESSION OF 2009.

So, America may get a little better for a few months and then slide right back off into another recession or depression.

But, the next time will be ever worse because America now owes all these additional Trillions of dollars, plus the extra interest payments on the National Debt.

The President and Congress have been bought off by the super wealthiest people of the world who make Billions of Dollars on NAFTA and the WTO every year.

This creates a huge Problem for the American People. We are all in a sinking boat and the people in charge absolutely refuse to admit we even have a problem, let alone solve the problem.

There can only be one solution to solve the American Jobs Problem and that is pull out of NAFTA and the WTO and America must go back to the vary same way America conducted International Trade Policies for over 216 years, before NAFTA and the WTO.

Then you will automatically see well over 15 million new good jobs created in America almost over night. There will be so many good jobs created the American workers will not be able to fill all of them.

You ask me, how can that be?

Well, the very minute America Pulls out of NAFTA and the WTO and all those same people who moved all those jobs off shore to China will bring all those same jobs back to America Pronto.

Read the following very carefully and you will understand exact how the America Politicians got us into this MESS.

I CAN CREATE 15 MILLION JOBS ALMOST OVER NIGHT right here in America !!!

Here is my Job creation Computations:

America Imported in 2006 mainly from China, Mexico, Japan and India well over $760 Billion Dollars more than we exported in 2006.

The $760 billion dollar import number that I am quoting includes Oil Imports which is something that America cannot change over night therefore must be subtracted out of total import number. The total U.S. crude oil imported during 2006 amounted to: $309.4 billion dollars of crude oil in 2006.

So, $760 billion minus $309.4 billion = $450.6 billion dollars worth of Manufactured Goods that could have and should have been produced right here in America.

Based on conventional wisdom in job creation, if you take $450.6 billion dollars worth of imported goods / $30 billion to create one million jobs = 15.02 million jobs would be automatically created almost over night.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, because some of you people still do not understand what I an saying. I am going to recalculate the cost of the Trade Deficit in lost Jobs.


So please do not tell me the stock CFR answer: “YEA, but look at all of the EXPORTS JOBS the USA will LOSE.”

The American people have been BRAIN WASHED into believing in that GLOBALIZATION is in the best interest of the American people.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Total USA Imports in 2006:
----------------------------------
$ 2,211.7 billion ----- (This includes Crude Oil)
$ 309.4 billion less --- (Spent on Imported Crude Oil)
--------------------------------------------------
$ 1,902.3 billion / 30 billion=63.41 million jobs lost from Imports. ==================================================

Total USA Exports in 2006:
----------------------------------
$ 1,451.7 Billion / 30 billion=48.39 million jobs America gains from Exports

If USA Pulls out of NAFTA and WTO right now:

USA could possibly lose 48.39 million Jobs from EXPORTS.

However, I am sure many countries will still export many items from the USA because they will be forced too. That would create even more jobs gained than I have estimated.

USA would absolutely gain 63.41 million Jobs by Manufacturing all IMPORTS here in USA.

So, 63.41 minus 48.39 = 15.02 million NET JOBS GAIN. (An increase of 31% over export jobs).

My calculation means an ABSOLUTE 15.02 million Jobs gained if the rest of the world did not buy even one penny of USA EXPORTS.

But, instead the Washington Politicians with all their Infinite Wisdom elected to move all of that manufactured goods off shore to China. Even as America has up-ward of 16% unemployment rate and climbing.

Then to make things even worse the Federal Government must borrow money from China and Japan to purchase back these very products as they are being brought back into America.

I think we are witnessing a conspiracy by the Federal Government who is totally controlled by the CFR PARTY, who demands the transferring of all the America Assets off shore to Communist China on a silver platter.

Why would the American Government sit on their A$$ and advocate all the Manufacturing Base and all our high Technology be shipped off shore to a Communistic Country like China?

Make no mistake about it China is still a Communistic Country.

Did you know the Chinese Citizens are not permitted to even own their own homes? The Chinese Government owns all real property and leases the homes back to the people.

We have handed all of our entire manufacturing base over to China on a silver platter. Also, did you know that Obama is in talks to transfer all the American Military Defense Technology over to Russia and China.

Please tell me; “What in the HELL are we going to do if we get into a War with Russia and China”?

The American people better wakeup damn fast or there will soon be no America to take back.

If the American people wants their great Country back. There is only ONE WAY to get it back and that is March on Washington and physically take it back.

Did you think for one minute that all of those Prima Donnas in Washington will give up all of that Power and money easily?

The CFR PARTY members always win the Presidential and Key Congressional elections because it is absolute impossible to vote the CFR PARTY out of office.

You see if you control all the money in the world then you can always buy anything you want, even the United States Government.

The CFR PARTY buys-off all the main Candidates of both the Democrat and the Republican parties, then the American people elect one of the two carry-carrying members of the CFR PARTY every time and no federal election law was violated.

The CFR Party has totally controlled the American Federal Government by buying all the Candidates for well over 80 years.

So, if you want to end up working for $2/day just like the Chinese slave labor, just keep votes for your favorite Republican and Democrat Candidate. They are all a bunch of damn greedy Crooks.

SO MOTE IT BE. . . . .

Do you truly want to help straighten out the United States Government now? Then, copy and post this article everyplace on the Internet you can post.

The American People have a right to know exactly who runs our Federal Government.

BY: Harry Dingey

Have a good day my friends

Thank you for your interest. This blog is no longer active.

 

About

Michael Mandel, BW's award-winning chief economist, provides his unique perspective on the hot economic issues of the day. From globalization to the future of work to the ups and downs of the financial markets, Mandel-named 2006 economic journalist of the year by the World Leadership Forum-offers cutting edge analysis and commentary.

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