How the blogs bring math into journalism

I can't say that I'm even slightly comfortable with this blending or dichotomy of math and "letters". Which side "owns" reason, logic, values, concept, abstraction, or rationality?

As a student many years ago, I myself rejected both the world of "math" (numbers and formulas) and the world of "letters" (AKA gibberish) in favor of computer science where I could pursue the manipulation of symbols using computer programs. I certainly have a deep appreciation for math, but I wouldn't say that I'm comfortable with math. I suppose I can make precisely the same claim about writing, or even this thing called "journalism", whatever that really is.

The issue with math and letters is not simply that the superficial languages differ, but the mental models and ways of thinking associated with those languages are so radically different that the only robust way to communicate effectively between them is simply to agree to disagree. Efforts by one community to reach out to the other are at best merely humorous.

What do blogs enable? "Math people" have communicated via email and magazines (called journals) for quite some time. Blogs and web feeds offer new options for packaging and distribution, but I'm not clear on how that might enable more effective communication with non-math communities, any more than journalists and scientists going to the same concert, same church, or same political rally.

Maybe ultimately it comes back down to what it always has come back down to: our native abilities to transcend differences. Do blogs really help to transcend differences or merely serve to heighten them? Have conservatives and liberals "come together" as a result of their blogging "wars"?

I suppose that heightening and emphasizing differences might present us with an opportunity to transcend those differences, but blogging doesn't present a strong incentive per se for bridging the gaps.

-- Jack Krupansky

Jakob Nielsen's opinions about Weblogs are about as relevant as my opinion about his car. Blog writing is not usability, and Nielsen's classic (and unworkable) diktats about Web writing simply do not apply to personal Weblogs. Hence I don't exactly know why you're giving him the time of day. Because he calls himself a guru?

Steve-
Regarding the question you posed at the end of your entry, if people on one side of the perception divide are willing to listen, yes it most certainly will. But isn't that always the turning point? For instance, who is the better writer- Twain or Hawthorne? Here's a much better fire-starter: why was Bush/Kerry a better man for the job than Kerry/Bush? it's not the conclusion that's important, it's the discussion. No willingness to listen, no real dialog, no enlightenment. Personally, I can say this: that semester of probability changed my life forever.
Quantitatively, one might argue that with more points of view available via blogging, there's a greater opportunity for opinions arrived at via mathematical calculation to be heard. But, with so many choices, are people of like POV going to self-segregate? Well, I bet many will. There will be some with courage and a sense of adventure who will take the other fork at times. Here's
to them.
Pete Zievers

Mmm I don't really see the difference between math and english oriented people - it's all just ones and zeroes to me. Fresh ideas and perspectives make my life interesting.

Obviously many traditional journalists don't come from a heavy math background but some must have or there wouldn't have been treeware tech magazines... one would expect.

Had Einstein been able to blog - and if I understood even a fraction of what he said - I'd have been rivetted and far smarter lol.

Bringing non-writers in allows for a certain irreverence to formal language, too.

Note to Stephen Baker

Stephen, you are close, and many of your observations are accurate: however, I see the differences differently.

While interesting, the comparison between English and Math is pretty far out. The key difference, IMHO, is the depth of knowledge of the so-called Scientific Principle. The people that you classify as a math type, have a heavier background in the sciences and scientific investigation.

Defining and solving problems requires a high degree of discipline, the kind of discipline found in any research organization, or to use a more current example, the kind of discipline exercised by the 9-11 Commission. It takes a lot of work, and patience, to research the details, form conclusions based on those details and then test those conclusions, particularly when you are dealing with a group of people with differing agendas.

The answer, of course, lies in the ability of leaders to enlist the commitment from participants to "Work the problem". No cop-outs allowed, for example:

>>The issue with math and letters is not simply that the superficial languages differ, but the mental models and ways of thinking associated with those languages are so radically different that the only robust way to communicate effectively between them is simply to agree to disagree. Efforts by one community to reach out to the other are at best merely humorous.

Now, there is a cop-out, and a bunch of baloney to boot. Sorry, Jack, but if that's what you believe you have closed the door to any possibility of cooperation.

Stephen, blogging is not the answer. Blogging with comments is not the answer. These are both broadcast methods. We need more forums, well run, monitored and measured forums. I'm not here to condemn blogging, You, as a member of the mainstream media have been able to broadcast to the rest of us for years. Blogging, or personal Web Sites, just allow us to broadcast back.

Obviously, blogging just becomes a shouting match with the participants competing for linking privileges. All that happens when you get into blogging is you demonstrate your superior ability to collect links.

Adding comments does not a forum make. A properly run forum can encourage the participants to learn how to communicate, And the language is English - not Math or Letters.

Doug Skoglund - http://ifihadmyway.com

Most basic reporting classes teach prospective journalists how to report on governmental budgets and to work with numbers.

Working with numbers doesn't require strong math skills. Revenues rise or fall a certain percentage, often provided by the source of the numbers so that reporters don't have to calculate percentages. If they do have to do such calculations, simple calculators do the work for them.

Knowing math is an important skill, but knowing how to transform data into useable information is an even more critical skill. And taking that information and creating a strategy for a government or a program is an even higher level skill.

That dozens of securities analysts and other data analysts are liberal arts majors suggests that you don't have to be a mathematician to work with numbers and data.

English courses teach critical thinking. Some get it. Some don't.

Getting it is useless unless you can communicate. Like math, writing requires clear thinking and problem solving.

Most journalists think clearly enough to report and write well, but they don't think clearly enough to solve problems in math in statistics. But they don't have solve the numbers problems to be effective. They just have to understand the relationships in the data, and they have to know how to ask good questions about costs, benefits, risks, rewards and projections.

Any sports or business writer can do that, and so can some political writers.

The thing to remember, I guess, is that there are English and Journalism graduates who can't write, and their are accountants, mathematicians and statisticians who are lousy analysts and communicators.

But put a good data analyst, Steven D. Levitt, an economist, together with Stephen J. Dubner, a journalist, and you get "Freakonomics," the best example of data mining and good writing on the best sellers list today.

Hey hey hey!!! I'm really interested in becoming a journalists!! when i get older... in school our teacher told us to pick a job that has math in it!! well I picked you know what!! well I really need help!! i need advice FAST!! so I can make an A and relize if Journalism is the right thing for me!! so is my friend katie she wrote you a comment a few min. ago!! well I hope you get my message!! Well for any help of giving an advice to my age i'm 13 lol. Our teacher I think is trying to prove that every job involes math..and well I see that she is very correct...so far!! well cya soon,
-Molly-

A debtor signs a note for $1000 due in 1year w/ interest at 12%. 3 months after the debt is contracted, the holder of the note sells it to a third party who determines its value at 16% simple interest. how much does the seller of the note receive? please help me at my assignment...

A debtor owes $1000 due in 1 year. He agrees to pay $500 in 3 months. If money is worth 13%, what payment must he make 15 months hence to retire the rest of the debt? Put the focal date 15 months hence.

please help me at my assignment...