H-1B Visas: 'Buy American' Comes to TARP

Posted by: Dan Beucke on February 06

By Moira Herbst

It’s another attempt at requiring companies to “Buy American” – but in this case, not American iron or steel, but American workers.

The U.S. Senate voted on Feb. 6 to put stricter limits on banks and other recipients of taxpayer money through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, that want to hire high-skilled workers from overseas under the H-1B visa program. The Senate approved the measure – introduced by Senators Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) and Bernie Sanders (Independent-Vermont) – by voice vote as an amendment the economic stimulus package President Barack Obama is urging the Senate to pass.

The vote came the same day that the government announced that that 598,000 U.S. jobs were lost in January, the biggest one-month drop in 34 years. The unemployment rate reached a 16-year high of 7.6%.

The amendment that passed isn’t as tough as the one Grassley proposed on Feb. 5, which would have prohibited firms from hiring H-1Bs altogether. The modified amendment instead makes TARP recipients jump through extra hoops before they can hire those foreign workers. Specifically, it subjects recipients of TARP funds to the same rules so-called H-1B dependent employers must follow. (An H-1B dependent employer is one whose workers brought in with that visa comprise 15% or more of the employer's total workforce.) These rules include:

1. The employer can’t displace any similarly employed U.S. worker with an H-1B hire within 90 days before or after applying for H-1B status or an extension of status.

2. The employer can’t place any H-1B worker at the worksite of another employer – meaning it can’t outsource a worker for a client – unless that employer first makes a “bona fide” inquiry as to whether the other employer has displaced or will displace a U.S. worker within 90 days before or after the placement of the H-1B worker.

3. The employer has to take good-faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the job opening, at wages at least equal to those offered to the H-1B worker. The employer must offer the job to any U.S. worker who applies and is equally or better qualified than the H-1B worker.

“These are hardly onerous expectations,” notes Ron Hira, professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology and an expert on H-1B visas. Hira says the provision would affect about 1,000 jobs.

The amendment falls short of preventing large banks from using H-1Bs brought into the U.S. by outsourcing firms like India-based Infosys (INFY), Wipro (WIT), and Tata, which are among the top recipients of petitions for the H-1B visa program. “Most of the H-1B use, and abuse, happens through relationships banks have with outsourcing firms,” says Hira. “I don’t think [the amendment] restricts them from working w those firms.” In other words, a bank could still legally force a laid-off American employee to train a replacement worker who is on an H-1B visa.

A related provision was passed in the U.S. House on Jan. 21 as an amendment to a bill that passed to reform TARP.

That measure, introduced by U.S. Representative Sue Myrick (R-N. Carolina), prohibits TARP recipients from outsourcing call-center work to foreign companies. The bill has not yet been taken up by the Senate.

Rising unemployment is leading to more scrutiny of the H-1B visa program and its effects. On Feb. 1 an Associated Press story said that the dozen banks now receiving the biggest TARP rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions such as senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. And in my story earlier this week, I wrote about the controversy surrounding Microsoft’s efforts to lift caps on the number of H-1B worker visas while it eliminates 5,000 jobs.

Reader Comments

Vee

February 6, 2009 06:44 PM

HATS OFF TO YOU SENATOR CHARLES GRASSLEY AND BERNIE SANDERS, THIS IS A GOOD BEGINNING, TOO MANY AMERICANS HAVE BEEN UNEMPLOYED BY THESE H1B AND L1 GUYS. THE NEXT STEP IS TO TOTALLY BAN OUTSOURCING 'IT JOBS' TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

debugger

February 6, 2009 07:09 PM

It's about time that our Senators fight for American IT workers. Hats Off to Senators Grassley and Sanders. Americans fund this stimulus and it just right that Americans benefit from this stimulus. American Jobs for Americans and American Products for American Stimulus Projects.

Coolmower

February 6, 2009 07:15 PM

Grassley is the new hero of the working man.

Rag

February 6, 2009 07:29 PM

Is this somekind of a joke on the American people, a law with so many loopholes!

Peter Pan

February 6, 2009 07:31 PM

Besides the word “abuse” itself I have not actually seen what the nature of the abuse is. I do not even get what H1B has anything to do with outsourcing, but may be it's just me. Before a potential H1B recipient gets a visa, his or her application with proposed wages has to go through the Labor Department, which sets the rates for all the occupations (pay attention, occupations, not companies) in the United States. So, if the article is hinting on the corruption case inside the Department, I cannot see how these evil H1B holders screw up America. I can tell how illegals screw up America not paying their share of taxes and enjoying the benefits. I can see how the government can close its eyes on 47 illegals working on a single SSN and making 47 payments towards social security and unemployment insurance that they can never claim. Can anybody, who actually KNOWS how the H1B process works, explain here the nature of these abuses. Or the article is trying to create a scapegoat for the financial collapse of this country? I can tell that you could blame CEO's getting multi-million dollar bonuses while their companies are failing, or Congress bailing out crooks on Wall Street, but certainly not the H1B holders.

baca

February 6, 2009 07:32 PM

There's a lot of misinformation going around. AP did not cover the story objectively.
http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2009/02/04.html

Uninvited

February 6, 2009 07:37 PM

Vee, too many americans are unemployed because they are not as qualified as international executives. If you'd study hard in University instead of going to frat parties then firms would not have to look for international workers at all!!!

Ramalinga Makwana

February 6, 2009 07:44 PM

Just remember when you hear all this talk about Green Jobs and the Green Economy that 20 years ago it was going to be the information economy which was going to keep American jobs. The truth is that millions of jobs were handed over to H-1B and L-1 visa holders, with the economic multiplier effect of establishing Asian offshore back office services and call centers. This was deliberately going on via legislation and lobbying while the politicians and captains of industry were talking up the new economic opportunities of the information revolution and the internet. Those forces are in play again. Obama's Gregg is still a supporter of these efforts. If Republicans want a main street issue, they must join Grassley in abolishing the h-1b program and introduce a global, tested best and brightest program - not a handout to the largest racist - that's right check out how untouchable castes are treated - the largest racist nation that ever existed.

Stop globalization

February 6, 2009 07:48 PM

Fellow Nations. Stop Globalization. Stop sending your money to Americans by drinking pepsi and coke in your countries. Buy local drinks. Stop exporting items produced with your hardwork to americans at ridiculous prices.Screw Boeing go Airbus. Demand that oil be available for tarde in a basket of currencies not just dollars. Grant funny money status to dollars which is being printed at will.

Tom

February 6, 2009 07:53 PM

Thank you Senator Grassley! Grassley is an American Hero!

AB

February 6, 2009 08:06 PM

Please America...learn a lesson from this. The idea of protectionism will not work because you don't have a self sustaining economy...no one does!

Do you know that 500,000 have been laid off in India due to the recession? Whose fault is this? Is it not because you Americans would rather live on credit than on hard earned money? So take responsibility for your failures and learn your lesson.

Stop blaming H1-Bs/ L-1s. Tell me, did the US economy fail when the H1-B programme was at its peak? NOPE! That means the H1-B was NOT one of the things that contributed to the recession. Why do you think it is a good idea to avoid the real causes and focus on an irrelevant issue? Do you think you can stop the recession by deciding to avoid its causes?

Wake up and smell the coffee. Take responsibility. Stop celebrating high school graduation as though its a major achievement. Stop asking for an A grade in college because you paid tuition. Work hard, save money. Just because you failed math does not mean your talents have to lie somewhere else...consider the possibility that you might be stupid...with no talents at all! Tone down your self esteem. Earn money before you spend it.

Otherwise by kicking a ruckus about the H1-B program you are just behaving like Eric Cartman... The world isn't Butters.

Ramalinga Makwana

February 6, 2009 08:11 PM

Watch that what happens to the new "Green Economy" initiative does not turn into the old "Information Economy" initiative. Beginning with the Immigration Act of 1990 and other milestones - most shamefully the removal of the provision which required a thorough justification before an individual guest worker took a position for which an American was qualified - lobbyists (including Jack Abramoff's firm working with a Microsoft lobbying arm), special corporate interests and a particular South Asian government changed the guest worker laws of this country. In those 18 years hundreds of thousands of jobs went to foreigners, wages were depressed and the culture of science and computer programming was changed to discourage young Americans from enter these occupations. Thanks to the true conservative Grassley and true progressive Sanders for sticking up for the American children and the parents who bought the "information economy" only to have there wages depressed and their careers outsourced out of existence.
And by the way, there have been several articles in Business Week and other publications about h-1b fraud. For a laugh, see the quote in the NYT where an Indian official boasts of his countries good job at providing regulations which protect Indian interests and control the effects of foreign capitalists.

Stephen

February 6, 2009 08:18 PM

As bad as H1B is, the EB greencard program is just as bad, if not worse.

Citizenship means nothing to most of the H1B/EB greencard crowd. What's worse, H1B people who do get their greencards often get into management positions. Once they do, the anti-American discrimination only gets worse because the foreigners only want to hire people from their home countries. I even saw one instance where a newly promoted Indian project manager - a greencard holder - fired all of the Americans in his group and replaced them with H1B people from his home country.

Because of the job losses and Anti-American discrimination, both the H1B and EB greencard programs should be permanently shut down.

ABSux

February 6, 2009 08:37 PM

AB, you doofus. 500,000 have been laid off in India? Big deal. Over 600,000 lost their jobs in the US JUST LAST WEEK. That is the equivalent of India, with over 1 Billion people, losing 1.8 MILLION jobs in ONE WEEK.

Joe the Xeno

February 6, 2009 08:41 PM

Ok, now the witchhunt begins... After H1Bs let go after the EB immigrants.

History shows in tough times the "other" is the easiest scapegoat.
The Nazis scapegoated jewish people blaming them for taking away jobs and for all the ills of Germany. In America scapegoats are immigrants.

Why do you just scapegoat immigrants, why not just take the next step. Why don't you just put all H1Bs on a boat with a bare quatitity of food and water and set them sail back to India. It was what was done for African Americans during the time of slavery...Liberia is a nation of forcibly repatriated African Americans from the 19th century.


ap

February 6, 2009 08:44 PM

I was also expecting Senator Durbin of Illinois in this story?

clifford

February 6, 2009 08:46 PM

I do not know why all the hate towards h1, l1 visa holders All these guys have to pay all the taxes , including social security and medicare. Out of these very few visa holders actually get to take the benefit of their SS or MC taxes as very few become permanent residents. Immigration process is so inefficient that it takes years to get even green card and this is what makes employers to hold on to employees and give them no increments. What I see is complete hypocracy. I will welcome a complete stop to all work related Visas and immigration processes for all and all the bilateral trade.
Recently India America signed a Nuclear Deal in which Americans will supply nuclear stuff at exorbiant profits forget all the job losses to call centers, but of course a Joe will not profit from it, he will be worried about loss of 40k PA job, however Dick Chenny will surely benefit.
I encourage you to go and check all the labels on all the products if it is foreign made dump it. I wish all of you American cars.
Amen

John

February 6, 2009 08:53 PM

What has this solved? Absolutely nothing!! More so when its only a mere 0.04% (http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2009/02/04.html) of the entire banking workforce that it targets and not even a substantial percentage of the 0.04%! The ammendment is a true manifestation of how a few misguided individuals with nativitist beliefs keen on blaming nearly every single problem they face on non-citizens can be blinded so much as to legally seek to entrench prohibited employment (not hiring but firing) discrimination practices without subjecting employers to civil penalties for the same. An already employed high flying and performing H1-B employee who went to Stanford, Harvard or Wharton will have no problem finding a job in a non-TARP bank or anywhere else in the US when they are targeted by this ammendment and denied an extension. When a substantial number of these employees leave the US, they only go on to strengthen the appeal of offshore locations, who wouldn't want an offshore location that has an abundant supply of American educated professionals more so when they are from the cream of the crop of the best US institutions (almost a certain prerequisite for a high profile position). The bank which at this time would have invested heavily in this individual would now face the prospect of having to hire a replacement and recapturing that investment in the employee, so much for the bailout funds taken from taxpayers who also happen to be H1-B holders.

The entire circus amounts to a whole lot of noise making for nothing but political trickery in line for 2010 which coincidentally has the measure sunsetting early in 2011. Whats the next big idea? stop globalization??

Venky

February 6, 2009 08:55 PM


How if we ban American companies to trade in India and other countries?
Stop ford,chevy,guess,gap, banana doing business in India and other countries....

How about H1B ask senators to give their taxes,social security back ????

InMotion

February 6, 2009 09:25 PM

H1B and outsourcing are two different things. By putting restrictions on H1B, the govt. can not stop outsourcing. H1B involves bringing a skilled worker from outside country (legally). A company can still send work electronically to outside country (oursourcing) and not hire a single person on H1B. So please educate yourself before appreciating the effort of senators... There are millions of illegal workers in US that are draining the resources. On other hand the H1B workers pay taxes and even Social Security. So wake up and educate yourself.. you fools who think that you can stop globalization or outsourcing by putting a cap on H1B.

AJ

February 6, 2009 09:27 PM

American should be grateful what Indians have contributed to American scientific and technological supremacy. As the biggest democracy, India is the American’s nature ally. In addition, Millions of Indian engineers, scientists and doctors play vital roles in American economy. Some examples are:
36% of NASA scientists Indians,
48% PHD are Indians,
38% of Microsoft engineers are Indians
33% Silicon Valley hi-tech companies are started by Indians
Computer Pentium CPU is invented by Indian
Microsoft Window is written by Indians
Oracle is written by Indians
Indians are by far the richest and most highly educated ethnic group
Without Indian contribution, American is no longer a science/technology superpower.

srikanth

February 6, 2009 09:40 PM

This is one more piece-meal approach of an "self-righteous" politician to address a complex problem. Ron Hira is right, nothing is going to stop JPMorgan Chase to lay-off a worker because a new "consultant" from Infosys is going to take up the responsibilities.

If this Bill does any thing, it only strengthens the "abusers" of H1-B visa, since they will have more cap to munch on.

Good Luck America. The Losers are US Corps and well qualified foreign workers.. The Indian sweat-shops are popping their champagne bottles.

SK

February 6, 2009 10:09 PM

This morning the Associated Press is running one of the most unfair pieces I've seen in a long time regarding the H-1B visa program. I expect this sort of thing out of the xenophobic fringe press, but the AP is an organization that used to be known for objectivity. The story focuses on the hiring of H-1B workers in the banking sector and is running with the headline "Bailout banks tried to hire foreign workers." Ooh. That's really bad. Lots of Americans losing their jobs and here are these greedy banks hiring cheap foreign workers to replace them. The public has a right to know!

Let's discuss the facts cited in the article first and then we can move on to some of the really biased analysis. The AP's Frank Bass and Rita Beamish (it took two reporters to get a story this wrong?) tell readers that banks receiving more than $150 billion in bailout money hired more than 21,800 foreign workers. Wow. Oh wait, that's over the last six years. So we're talking about 3500 workers a year on average. And some of those years were in a pretty strong economy.

But how much does 3500 even mean? How many workers are there in the banking sector? Quite a lot, actually. According to the Labor Department, even with the economic downturn, there are still more than 8 million workers in the sector. And as of last year around this time, unemployment in the banking sector was just 3.2%. Most of the workers included in the 21,000 were brought in during this extremely low unemployment period.

So let's just be clear - banks seek to fill .04% of their workforce with H-1B workers. The horror!

The AP then goes on to mention that in fiscal year 2008, banks "sought" 4,163 H-1B visas. A couple of points that the reporters failed to mention:

- Fiscal year 2008 actually runs from October 1, 2007 until September 30, 2008. Because of high demand for the H-1B visa, applications must be filed six months ahead of the start of the fiscal year to have any chance so that means these applications were filed in April 2007.

- The number cited is the number of visas sought, not the number actually used. First, only about half of applicants actually got H-1B visas for fiscal year 2008 because of excessive demand. Second, many applicants who are approved for a visa by USCIS don't actually end up claiming the visa at a US consulate and entering to work for the sponsoring employer.

- A lot of those H-1B workers were educated in the US - many receiving MBAs at American universities around the country. We educated these folks so why should we not benefit from their work?

- Just how many H-1B workers in banking have been laid off? I know anecdotally quite a few because I've been helping many people facing sudden unemployment. This is absolutely critical to the story yet it is something left unanswered.

It became apparent to me reading a bit further in the article that this is just a hit piece set up by the same anti-H-1B folks in the high tech sector that have been pushing for protectionism for years. In fact, the only people quoted in the story are Programmers Guild members and Senator Chuck Grassley whose record on this issue speaks for itself. Funny how they can't find a single unemployed banking industry worker they can ask about supposedly training their foreign replacement.

And look at this statement in the story simply recited as fact:

Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers.


Aside from the fact that this is patently untrue, the reporters don't even bother to cite any studies showing this is true. They just state that companies routinely seek to replace more experienced hire paid Americans with these workers. Of course, if this were really possible, I suspect we would see more than .04% of the banking sector filled with H-1B workers. These are greedy bankers after all.

When newspapers that are struggling to survive are shelling out big bucks to the AP to run their wire stories, shouldn't they expect better?

Andy

February 6, 2009 10:26 PM

Pointless restriction on H1 B visa. Its not a solution. We need to look at it objectively and weigh the pros and cons before drawing a conclusion that H1 B employees are causing employer's to downsize their workforce.

Each company based on its strategy, decides what resources it needs to implement this strategy. Resource includes employee with a large tool box so he can perform multiple function. Unfortunately H1 B workers work hard, putting in long hours and takes initiative to learn new things.

People need to wake up....

Sam Siphandone

February 6, 2009 10:44 PM

Depression like this, Americans should first get the job, while other nationals should have been later. Maybe, after economy improves....

Huh

February 6, 2009 10:52 PM

Huh! Ron Hira, can you confirm if IEEE has NOT accepted any intellectual contributions from a H1b visa holder or an international student? Or do you wait for the visa holder to get his greencard or citizenship?
Moira, why does McGraw-Hill (Businessweek’s mother company) sponsor H1b visas? Did you verify is they are paid market wages? Yeah right! McGraw-Hill outsources as much as 50 percent or more of their IT budget dollars!
Talk about real reform not knee jerk actions!
BTW, this amendment helps the outsourcing companies even more and of course demoralizes the 500,000 skilled immigrants waiting for their greencards!
JIM CROW laws are back again! True, everything is legal. So were Jim Crow laws.

An underclass of LEGAL migrant works with no representation, who are SEPARATE BUT EQUAL!

EQUAL in taxation but SEPARATE when it comes to benefits or in cases basic rights!

Vee

February 7, 2009 12:12 AM

I VOTE GRASSLEY AND SANDERS FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF AMERICA.

Vee

February 7, 2009 12:24 AM

H1B'S WERE INTRODUCED WHEN OUR AMERICAN ECONOMY WERE IN BOOM PERIOD AROUND 1992, OUR ECONOMY WAS IN SURPLUS AT THAT TIME, GRADUALLY THE H1'BS AND L1'S WERE TOTALLY ABUSED BY THE INDIAN COMPANIES, BIG TIME OUTSOURCING OF PROJECTS WERE TAKEN UP, TOO MUCH LOBBYING WAS DONE IN WASHINGTON TO KEEP INCREASING THE QUOTAS. ALL THESE LED TO TOO MANY AMERICANS BEING LAID OFF AND REPLACED BY OFFSHORE WORKERS TO SAVE COST. CURRENTLY WE HAVE TOO MANY UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS AND WE CANNOT JUST SIT AND WATCH OUR JOBS GO AWAY. THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD STEP IN AT THIS CRITICAL TIME AND BAN OUTSOURCING TOTALLY. THIS WILL START CREATING MORE JOBS INTERNALLY, WE HAVE VERY GOOD TECHNICAL RESOURCE TO HANDLE ANYTHING. SENATOR GRASSLEY AND SANDERS HAVE TAKEN THE FIRST STEP, NOW BANNING OUTSOURCING IS NOT FAR OFF.

Bob

February 7, 2009 12:47 AM

Peter Pan says

"I do not even get what H1B has anything to do with outsourcing, but may be it's just me. "

perhaps you should read the SEC statements Indian Outsourcers. They say they cant outsource without H-1bs.

is there a part of that you dont get?

oh, i forgot, everything said by h-1bs about h-1bs is a lie - always has been , always will be

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/271288/outsourcing_firms_warn_h-1b_visa_cutbacks?fp=39&fpid=26145

The

Ex H1B worker

February 7, 2009 01:17 AM

Hello Ramalinga & AB, just because you see unfair criticism on H1B and GC people, you cannot counter it with equally unfair criticism on US citizens. Do you think you would have seen a job here if not for the creation of Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, BEA, Sybase, Intel, IBM, etc. all of which were created by smart US citizens you wont be talking so much. BTW, I hope Stephen not entirely wrong. I wish Vee understands that it is impossible for US corporations to succeed in strengthening themselves without attracting the huge number of talented people from abroad. Hey, BTW, this bailout includes taxes paid by H1B workers also. As team we all allowed the mess. Let's clear it off as team as well.

Ex H1B in US

February 7, 2009 01:28 AM

BTW, the H1B system and Green card system in place is good enough as it stands now to prevent a viable case for the need of more of these visa when there are so many beloved Americans suffering without a job. My fear is that with H1B restrictions these companies, to stay competent, may actually grow there operations abroad disproportionately to their growth in US and thus not opening much jobs in US. This may result in loss of tax dollars.

goldman sachs

February 7, 2009 02:14 AM

so now GOLDMAN SACHS has to sack all indian employees??????

debug

February 7, 2009 04:19 AM

Yes, I hope: AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, GSA, Bank of America, Wells Fargo all sack their indian employees.

Dan

February 7, 2009 04:24 AM

Not true all the time Stephen, I have seen the reverse also. Even in a multinational company H1-B workers are not given management position despite of being more productive and efficient compared to American worker. The truth is when you need skilled labor you bring them, now when the economy is bad you can't just fire them since they are H1-B or make the rules harder for them to get a job. It's legitimate don't bring further H1-B workers anymore in country. But atleast those people who are already here they need support/chance. This law will make their survival very hard. Firing an H1-B worker in this bad economy means sometimes uprooting an entire family within 2 months.

StillEmployed

February 7, 2009 04:40 AM

Peter Pan, I can explained the abuse. The Labor Department does not set "the rates for all the occupations" as you believe. Employers report the prevailing wage for any jobs. The Labor Dept has no means to question or object, unless the H-1B applicant ends up working in a different job than the one stated on the application. As you can imaging, employers have an interest in reporting a low number. Also, in the electronics industry employers set unrelated sets of skills for a jobs, which are not truly required, but which the H-1B candidate happens to have due to his/her unique life or professional experience. Please see this video for an example of how employers and recruiting firms operate,

http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild

Partha

February 7, 2009 06:20 AM

Wow! As per the new law, the Indian IT companies would find it more convenient to keep the outsourced jobs in India, rather than sending an employee to US on H1-B. SO they would charge the client's less and this would cause all banks to seriously consider Outsourcing as a lucrative option!!! --------> thus leading to more American workers losing jobs!!!

The New Order

February 7, 2009 06:38 AM

And so died the new capitalism, as well.

Long live the state, and state-owned corporations.

Mansa

February 7, 2009 07:11 AM

To someone who has been in IT, this is exactly how it goes. These INdian firms obtain people, train them on some skill, and then present them as QUALIFIED .. they even craft resumes for these people.
The fact is, that there are plenty of US (read Americans) who are losing their jobs to these Indians..why? Because I can pay an H-1B visa employee $40,000 as opposed to paying an AMercian $75,000. SO that is fact, this H1-B visa thing is hurting Americans.
Additionally, what happens is that Indians navigate into senior management, and then bring nothing but Indians on board, regardless of whether or not the INdians can do the job.
Finally, these INdians are racist, espeically against black people. The comments I have heard from some of them really disturb me. If u are going to some to this country as a guest worker, then you need to learn to respect the people of this country.
IN conclusion, I think the whole program (H-1B) should be scrapped, either that or expand it to other countries (Not just India); and ensure management does not disregard AMerican workers.

abc

February 7, 2009 08:04 AM

Politicians and Big corps talk about H1B visa - which as someone else pointed out has caps and labor certification to fool the public. Now everyone can ignore the L1 Visa workers (slaves). There are no caps and no requirement to pay prevailing wages to an L1 Visa worker. Also the spouses can work too - lose 2 jobs not one!! Enjoy!!

kat

February 7, 2009 08:29 AM

AJ - If Indians are so smart how come India is such a hellhole? The disparity between rich and poor is growing. 33% of the world's poor live in India - that translates to over 450 million Indians. 42% of Indians are living below the international poverty level.
http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/01/grinding-poverty-in-resurgent-india.html

Add in the massive levels of corruption and bureaucratic bumbling. And you also have criminal executives and companies like Satyam and Sanjay Kumar for example.
http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/jan/16-corruption-in-india-like-africa-world-bank-official.htm

And cheating is endemic in the educational sysstem.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-06-08-tech-cheating_x.htm

It would be extremely naive not to believe that this extremely corrupt culture is being brought to the US.

Bharath

February 7, 2009 08:45 AM

If india stops drinking pepsi and cola for ONE DAY, this country feel the thirst, not india. If every indian/chinese leave this country with their life savings and leave their homes behind as some of you wish, this country is a dead rat. SUN, INTEL founders are from india, No one is telling india invented IT, its a collective effort, america took the lead, but, future belongs to india, the day is not far...

goody

February 7, 2009 09:05 AM

I accept that US citizens should be given the high priority in US jobs. No qualified US citizen should be jobless, while a "Same qualified" non-immigrant is on job.

But, those who are criticising the H-1B visa holders please think about these facts!!

1) Does H-1B visas are the only reason to this recession? Does ban on H-1B solve all recession problems?

2) When there is no qualified US citizen available for a technology job (in a specific region), does that company should stop its business until it finds one?

3) Why a US company is recruiting a non-immigrant employee? Is it due to talent and skill or cost of employee or adopting ability to new technology or the reason a H-1B holder works longer hours with the 8hr pay?

4) Is it possible to totally ban on H-1B workers and do the company's can perform their business with only US citizens?

5) Doesnot a H-1B holder not paying taxes and Social Security?

6) Doesnot a H-1B holder spending the money he/she earned in US only?

7) Isn't it fact that a H-1B holder is creating 4-5 more jobs?

8)Does a H-1B holder paying their rents to their home country land lords? Does a H-1B holder buying his monthly groceries in thier home country? Does a H-1B holder paying medical and auto insurance to their home country? Isn't it supporting to all these business indirectly?

I strongly feel that no one can stop globalization. If there is a need to ban on H-1Bs the next immediate need is outsource the jobs to other countries.

If a company hires a non-immigrant employee, he/she spends 60% to 70% earnings in US only. But if a job is outsourced, the 100% goes out.

Please think about it. Dont blame H-1B holders.

If all of the above are not facts. Go ahead, ask your lawmakers and politicians to ban on H-1Bs. No problem at all.

H1-B holder.

Cool

February 7, 2009 10:59 AM

1)H1B is speciality job, and the requirment is that when you dont find any suitable american worker for the job, then only you go for foregein worker. So you can't blame H1B worker to get hired.
2)On low wages:All H1B work on wages which are higher or equal to what is being paid for an equivalent american worker. because while filing H1B, you have to specify the wages.
3) Spouse of H1B can't work in USA,whatever talented or educated he/she may be. Spouse is not earning anything here but making all the expences here only in USA. and adding to economy.
4)Because of temporary status of H1B, even if they earn money but they can't buy houses here. Thus making landord rich and again adding to economy.
5)H1B pays all the taxes without the probablity of even getting his/her money back. Its kind of stealing his money in nicer way. There should be provision of getting this money back.
6)To get the green card H1B has to wait for years in queue. untill then he/she is stuck with his employer (theoraticaly changing job is possible) but practicaly not. its kind of another way of saying that H1B is slave.

Stephen

February 7, 2009 11:00 AM

There is absolutely no transparency in the EB greencard or H1B programs. The Dept of Labor can't or won't track how many H1B workers there are in this country. Many advertised job openings are not really open at all but are currently filled with H1B workers who are trying to get sponsored for a greencard. The job ads are just a formality to satisfy the federal labor certification process for greencard sponsorship and any citizens who apply are just going to get rejected without knowing exactly what went down. And then there's the matter of the L1 visas, which are not really accurately tracked and that have no cap at all.

anand

February 7, 2009 11:50 AM

Does anybody has any numbers that how many H1B in US owns house and other substantial investment.
I wonder -- would the crisis be solved once they all foreclose on their houses.
Somebody with access to the data, please run the numbers and send to dear Senator. I think his intentions are more politically motivated and not aimed at solving the problems at hand.
--Anand

Peter

February 7, 2009 12:14 PM

Kudos to senators Charles Grassley and Bernie Sanders.

The H-1B visa abuse must be stopped because it goes against promoting the study of science/math in college by US citizens.

Why would my kids want to get a MS in Computer Science if US companies prefer paying cheaper Indian college grads with H1-B visas?

Let's stop the H-1B visa abuse.

ME

February 7, 2009 12:17 PM

"Hira says the provision would affect about 1,000 jobs."

So all you guys are foaming at the mouth with indignation for 1000 jobs? .... this wont fix the economy.

If you actually reads the AP report, it clearly says that the average salary paid by the banks for their h1 workers was 90,000 dollars .... now thats cheap labor, isn't it.

H1b causes job loss

February 7, 2009 12:48 PM

Oh please, this changes nothing. Companies already know how to give the government the run-around, and there will be no oversight that these 'guidelines' are enforced.

SCORE INDIA AND CORPORATE FAT CATS!

SD

February 7, 2009 12:52 PM

Understand Sen Grassley and Sanders to protect american workers. But how does this have anything to do H1B workers. The purpose of H1B workers to come here in US and work is in areas where there are lack of skills. If they say that H1B workers are replacing american workers with lower salary, then there is something profously wrong in the law and immigration system. Why don't they go and fix that first before declaring H1B replaces american workers. This is what politics as usual, that has been continuing in america, due to which we are in this situation, these Senators do not have the knowledge where the problem exists and the root cause of it. I will not blame a H1B worker who come here with specialized skill to strenghten the American business and pay the same tax including SS tax, but they do not get any benefit of these taxes. Will the Senators please ammed this unfair tax struture for H1B, who works the same amount as an American Citizen and pay the same tax, but does not get any benefit instead a racist comments on Business Week and other media. I would suggest the H1B visa program should be available to only American Companies to hire specialized professionals and retain them here so that the knowledge do not go out of these country. It should not be a scapegoat for a discussion that H1B workers are less paid and replace American Workers. Rather take action on perhaps Indian Companies like INFY, WIPRO who bring in H!B workers and then transfer that knowledge to offshore, which affects american workers.

So Dear Senators instead of perceiving that H1B workers replaces American workers, amend you law so that American Companies can bring in specialized professionals and improve your Green Card process, so that they stay here and contribute to this country's future. This is a land of immigrants, who come here to do best for the country and themselves. Make that happen.

Lets_See

February 7, 2009 12:53 PM

This is so tipical of you Moira. Here is a small story. I hope you will understand.

There is rowing competition going on. Consider only two countries A and B. Country A has 9 supervisors and 1 rower. Country B has 1 supevisor and 9 rower. After a tight compition and serious fight, Country A lost by only few seconds. Committee has been set up to investigate. After long analysis, Country A found out that they lost because of that 1 rower didn't do his job properly and they fire him. Top management gave those 9 supervisor big bonus for finding out root cause.

That's right, what you are thinking is absolutely correct.
- These H1B holders are the responsible for the current situation of this country. Does it matter, if they are fraction percentage of our huge population who eat 25% of world resources. NNNOOOOOO. How dare they talk like this!!!
- Lets find some other country and throw bomb on it. Why, ohh I know at least we can divert the attention, if we can't divert attention by telling about H1B guys.

Joe

February 7, 2009 01:24 PM

This is really ridiculous. I am a H1B myself, not in finance, not in IT. This news is certainly a blow............There might be some abuses in a few cases, but overall, we are just hardworking and honest folks who came to this country, studied at its finest universities, learn its culture, fall in love in it and wanted to be part of this country, despite all the prejudices and racism we encountered. Now what?!?! Are you folks happy now?

You guys are just pawns...so easily appease with this ruling. Who actually benefited? Politicians that play with your stupid minds. Who wil stay rich...the very businesspeople who supported H1B.

Let's hope that all multinational firms now base larger part of their operations overseas. And we returnees will insist on it.

Ex H1B in US

February 7, 2009 01:38 PM

Save America! encourage H1B and GC! discourage out sourcing! Increase Tax Dollars. Save the government! Save our Money.

Venkat

February 7, 2009 01:53 PM

THIS WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM AT ALL FOR H1B SINCE BAIL OUT COMPANIES ARE NOT IN HIRING MODE, THERE ARE IN LAYOFF MODE.

So, the bill absolutely has no impact

Vee

February 7, 2009 02:55 PM

THIS FOR VENKY, FORD, GM AND OTHER AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN COUNTRIES HAVE CREATED JOBS IN INDIA, JUST LOOK AT CHENNAI TODAY, SEE HOW MANY INDIANS ARE EMPLOYED IN THESE COMPANIES, AND SEE HOW THESE INDIANS ARE PROSPERING, WHERE AS YOU GUYS COME TO AMERICA AND TAKE OUR AMERICAN JOBS, WHAT DO YOU CREATE HERE, NOTHING ZERO. YOUR INDIAN 'IT' COMPANIES DONT EVEN HIRE AMERICAN CITIZENS. WE HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH SELFISH PEOPLE ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD. OPEN YOUR EYES.

c grass le

February 7, 2009 03:05 PM

It is not that H1 guys don't pay taxes. They pay more taxes than Americans! Check your books and records. The reason why America came up with an idea of H1 B visa was that US didn't have skilled people especially in IT/Software and HArdware fields. Since most of the systems are now supported by outsourced firms, I think it doesn't make sense to approve this amendment.

The financial firms will be hugely impacted by this. Instead of passing such flimsy ideas, it makes more sense to improve job opportunities by findings new ways and establishing firm rules.

I have many H1Bs working with me. Believe it or not, they are exceedingly talented and well trained. None can match their skills.

-Charles Newsome

James

February 7, 2009 03:22 PM

I don't like this bill....I don't like this at all....this smells too much like a Smoot-Hawley Tarrif Act knock off. H-1B Visas and L-1 visas are the jobs coming here THAT WE NEED TO STAY COMPETITIVE AGAINST CHINA, BRAZIL, RUSSIA, AND INDIA FOLKS!!!!!!!!! These people are extremely intelligent people with upper-class professions where the jobs don't exist in their own countries. We have people in India with Doctorate degrees driving taxi cabs and working overnight hours at call centers (sometimes speaking fluent American English). Our real attention should be focused on reigning in on off-shoring and bringing more jobs back from half way around the world. We should be welcoming these H-1B visa immigrants as fellow Americans and together we can fight Wall Street with a new Pro-Labor Movement.

abc80

February 7, 2009 04:38 PM

I want to add some more points which will give you guys a different angle to this problem. People do curse H1 for taking jobs away but there is one more visa program which is far dangerous than H1 and that is L1 visa.
From last 3-4 years since US gov bring down the cap of H1 visa from 195k to 65k , lots of oursourcing companies have started using L1 visa .
Number of people they send onsite on L1 is far far higher than people coming on H1.
Reasons why L1 program is such a favourite among outsourcing companies are:
a) Any worker who comes on H1 has the right to get his H1 transfer to other company.
b) Since outsourcing companies doesn't pay much in US, say in the range of 50-60k , workers on H1 switch to a diiferent job which requires same effort/skill set for 90-100k. Hence these companies keep on loosing workers on H1B.
c) Since outsourcing companies don't do Green Card etc that is one more reason why workers on H1 don't want to stick with them for long. Above options are not available for workers coming on L1 visa. They can't change employers and hence they are paid much less then H1b , approx 36-55k max.
d) For workers coming on H1B, there is a requirement of prevailing wage but in case of L1 there is no such requirement .
e) There is no limit on L1 quota. So companies can send any number of workers.
f) L1 visa is for inter company transfer from Foreign country to their US offices, but no other hard requirements in terms of skill set. So what is happening that these companies are able to send non IT guys too in US for doing job likes banking, finance, sales, marketting at a very low cost.
g) Now one more reason why L1 visa is more lethal that h1. Dependents/spouse of H1 B visa (which is H4) are not suppose to work but dependents of L1 visa which is L2 are allowed to work in US. In India entire middle class is masters by default . Now spouse coming on L2 easily gets job in US which pay around $15-20 per hour. As you can see that numbers are doubling.
g) I don't have any official number on people working on L1 in Us but I can easily say that all big outsourcing companies are sending workers on L1 not on H1 for last 3-4 years.
It doesnot mean that they don't have H1 folks but they are mostly the one who joined their US office directly and have already done H1B visa.
So my request don't blame only H1B, please ask gov about L1 program too.
Just use to give you an example how much L1 visa is misused
Say a company pay $60-70 per hour for contractors who can be on H1b or L1 or GC or American Citizen
Employers of workers on L1 will charge around $55 (discounted as compare of 60-70) but will will pay their employees aorund $100 per day.

In the end Misuse of L1 Visa is a open secret but unfortunately most of us are not aware of it.

Sad

February 7, 2009 04:39 PM

OK..enough already...

NOThing can be stopped. Jobs will be outsourced and jobs will be lost. End of the day its life and it sucks.

GO improve your stagnant skills and do something in life...Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SM

February 7, 2009 05:47 PM

Why all this hue and cry about H1B and L1's? Darwin very clearly said, "Survival of the fittest". There were so many wake up calls for working man of this country to pull up his/her socks..When high quality Japanese cars replaced the now bankrupt 'Big 3' here..then when all the manufacturing got outsourced to China..and finally when all the tech jobs has moved from India...all this while common working man did was blame others and it still continues..stop putting blame on others for your own miseries which are the result of your own greed (wasn't it your own John Thain, who took your money to save his enterprise but still sought a bonus of $10 million)...Who was the CEO of Enron, WorldCom? Isn't Madoff, a fellow American man? I can go on and on about this list. There is famous saying that when you point finger at someone else, you are pointing three at yourself..so think thrice before blaming others..

Last but not the least, no one in this country can claim not to be an immigrant other than the Red Indians..so stop lecturing about immigration..you yourself are a result of that..even the President of this country is second generation immigrant.

AS

February 7, 2009 06:04 PM

Most cases, H-1 holders are international students who wants to stay to work after graduation. They are assets to America, not liabilities. America does not have to raise them until the age that they can work. They have good knowledge and skills, at least better than many American. They work harder than American. So by offering H-1, America can attracts talents around the world.
In addition, no H-1B, no job opportunities, and no international students coming to America.

Jetson

February 7, 2009 06:12 PM

Yeah, totally we come here study and dont have a job?? common now my dad has been working in India for 30 years and is in a respectable position his monthly pay in US equivalent is $700 . Am paying a student loan of $200. My fee for graduate school is $9000 for 4 months.. guys common I pay. I study hard. I work. I pay taxes.. but u want to scrap my job ??? Truly if u want to compete go to school dnt just sit online and blame h1b workers are stealing ur jobs.. Dont let ur mind be fooled .. what happened in India is happening rich giants outsource and they get richer we all sit and watch in debts and remain poorer. Totally guys dnt bring out a goat to scape whenever u feel like .. It's always easier to point others mistakes to hide yours but sit and think .. God bless America. Amen

kp

February 7, 2009 06:44 PM

Firstly, a lot of commentators are unaware that H1b is different from outsourcing. Second, people from all countries are recepients of H1bs not just Indians. It is very unfortunate that all the heat is being diverted towards Indians. Sadly it seems like a new kind of Racism against Indian people.

Also, the H1b holders pay taxes here including Social Security even though they won't be eligible for any social security what so ever. Many come here as students paying huge amounts of tuition fees thus sustaining Education industry here and prefer to work just to gain some experience.

Media has to play a constructive role and educate the ignorant. There are only 65,000 slots and they are for highly skilled positions, where as the most jobs lost were in Manufacturing industry which has nothing to do with hiring H1Bs.

Also, think for once if it is wise enough. If the companies are barred from hiring foreign skilled workers they will open shop in those countries for a fraction of costs. This will be terrible for every one here. And We will lose our competent edge.

Please I beg of you not to fan the fires of hatred towards any community and let us brainstorm rationally.

Dr. Gene Nelson

February 7, 2009 07:39 PM

The privatizing of benefits (mainly to the economic elite) and the socializing of costs (the loss of the careers of millions of experienced American citizens) that are caused by work visa programs such as H-1B are unsustainable. The numbers involved are bloated. As I note in the tabulation on the third page of my 2008 article, "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit." [Google the title and select the more readable and engaging PDF version] there have been over 25 MILLION visa admissions in just 5 high-skilled visa programs between FY 1975 and FY 2005.

U.S. citizens that want to keep their jobs should use the powerful no-cost tools at NumbersUSA.com to insure that senate amendment 306 passes the House - Senate conference committee that negotiates H.R. 1.

I hope this is a first step in reforming this incredibly corrupt visa program.

An H1b holder

February 7, 2009 08:00 PM

H1B ban? Huh! I see big US company bosses going to India to setup captive units there. Indians will get to enjoy in their home country and jobs still keep going to India/China. Indian IT outsourcing companies will need to just sit back and enjoy, they wont even need to hire US sales guys here. Think! If you need to stop a second fiasco from happening you need to eliminate or check the root cause of the recession, and H1B was never the root cause!

Senators and crooks are merely taking gullible emotional Americans for a ride.

Mark

February 7, 2009 08:03 PM

I urge all Indians to boycott all American made products as the way to retaliate american protectionism.We should not feed the dog that bites hands.Criminals have no friends, only crime-partners.

DallasDude

February 7, 2009 08:09 PM

Allright guys here is my humble 2 cents..

To say it nicely the world is increasingly being modelled on the principles US was founded and has flourished. Pursuit of happiness and prosperity has motivated countries around the world and individuals in these countries the fire and passion to be innovative and make a difference. The US no longer enjoys the exclusivity in terms of creating new products and services and there is whole new world out there competing with each other. To compete you need to encourage free flow of talent into the US. There are not enough engineers in the US ...nor there will ever be enough best in class engineers and technical manpower to service the new information age driven economy. Remember the baby boomer generation is retiring in the next 5-10 years..where will the technical manpower come from..Unfortunately as a country becomes affluent...the younger generations tend to take up careers higher up the management chain which enables them to make more money. Due to this we do not have a sustainable pipleline which can replinish the need.

Lets talk abt numbers...55k H1B visa workers coming in each year...what is this in terms of the overall unemployed population 55k/12million=0.45%...guys thats 0.45% of the total unemployed population. All of these 12million unemployed do not have the tranferrable skills to really do these 55k jobs...nor is it possible to retrain them in the short term since it would require 4+years of college education. Each H1B job creates 10 other jobs(tasks) in the US..lawyers, payroll, administrative, real estate..etc and keeps the job and taxes in the US.

Guys its not that bad and going after the H1B program is like a witch hunt..We are better than this...Lets be logical

John Boris

February 7, 2009 08:21 PM

See the details of H1B Visa Hiring here. The reports are categorized by occupation, industry, location and economic sectors.

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/

math impotent

February 7, 2009 08:56 PM

yeah that's your average John Doe

TZ

February 7, 2009 09:01 PM

The Nazis scapegoated jewish people blaming them for taking away jobs and for all the ills of Germany. right now in America scapegoats are immigrants.

FIND THE ROOT REASON OF THE PROBLEM PLZ WITH YOUR BRAIN, THE SENATORS!

It is the greedy of big corp executives, the over-risk taking, not the h-1b workers.
Most H-1Bs are hard-working people to feed their families. THEY ARE LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. the pay taxes for the US, but they are being blamed for the crisis!

Not an H1B

February 7, 2009 09:09 PM

Bharath, I am not sure I am living in a parallel world according to what you said below about Sun and Intel...but if what you say's real, I don't think Indian people need that H-1B visas, you guys should all go back to India and wait for that day to come, and instead Americans should apply for Indian H-1Bs...so why do you care about H-1B in the States?

Bharath
February 7, 2009 08:45 AM

Shaw

February 7, 2009 09:14 PM

I think senate completely missed the point.

H1B visa is granted to server an important purpose: Bring skilled workers to fill the shortage.

A foreign national who comes to US, studies in their best universities requires a H1B visa to work in US. This H1B worker may have specialized skill, has been imparted good education and most importantly not a Trojan Horse to export jobs to cheap destinations.

An offshore company in India requires H1B visa to send their work force (Trojan Horse) to USA, replace Americans and import jobs to their country. Offshore companies have other ways such as L1, 3 month Business Visa.

The difference and their impact on US is completely missed or intentionally overlooked by the senate.

The restrictions senate have imposed will not discourage jobs from getting exported to India.

Victor

February 7, 2009 09:16 PM

There is no problem at H1B, the real problem is the outsourcing jobs in Inda. From 1992 to now, at most 2million H1B workers, perhaps 0.8million are IT workers. But think about how many outsource jobs in India/China - 30million! And H1B will pay tax in US, buy house in US and spend most of their money in US...

Eric

February 7, 2009 10:20 PM

My poor follows, this country can import as many as 58K H1b every year, how bad it is compared with massive outsourcing. Outsourcing is what should be banned if we can find the work force here in the US. H1b holders at least spend their earnings, pay taxes here, now what about all the outsourcing. Now if any of you actually believe in the crap brought by the senators, you forget what you fight against - and this is what exactly they want to see. lol...

sek

February 7, 2009 10:32 PM

Just for all those talking about low wages...look at the average wage paid to Asian Indians..it's the highest..averaging around 65,000 to 75,000 as per year 2000 census.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFIteratedFacts?_event=&geo_id=01000US&_geoContext=01000US&_street=&_county=&_cityTown=&_state=&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=factsheet_2&ds_name=DEC_2000_SAFF&_ci_nbr=013&qr_name=DEC_2000_SAFF_R1010®=DEC_2000_SAFF_R1010%3A013&_keyword=&_industry=

It's quality and qualification that makes them different. America needs them in the tough situations like this more than in any other time. Give them Green Cards and see how the housing market is going to turn around...no stimulus can be better than this (I strongly believe any govt. stimulus is not going to be that effective)..simply printing money is not going to help America..many countries already planning to go out of $$$ to some other currency..H1B's are better than outsourcing the jobs. If outsourced, 100% goes out of country, but for H1B's country gets taxes and ssn paid which most of them never get back. H1B also spend atleast 50% of their income here. Think about this senators and those supporting restrictions on H1B. If H1B are restricted, companies are going to out source more. It's not all that difficult with the last video conferencing and meeting technologies available now.

ELAN

February 7, 2009 10:35 PM

America is going down so fast. Who to blame? The Wall Street people.

EEMania

February 7, 2009 10:49 PM

Did IT industry ask for any bailout money?

goldmansachs

February 7, 2009 10:59 PM

Hi
i am a goldman sachs employee at banglore(india). Does this means i will not be allowed to come to US from now on?
will i be fired??????????

yz

February 7, 2009 11:21 PM

wake up guys, H1B scrutiny will not solve the problem. Treat them like human beings, everyone comes to America to make a better life. US is a melting pot and is a great country. US is strong because of this. Keep it global guys. Employers hire H1B guys because, they do well and exceed the expectations easily and work really hard. Obviously they do go through the H1B process heavily to hire an employee. Lets compete in the global economy guys, dont think local.

DY

February 7, 2009 11:24 PM

I don't know what the amendment is trying to accomplish. I knew a dozen of fellow graduate students who are US Citizens. None of them lost job to foreign students. Matter of fact, it was easier for them to find job. They generally had more interview opportunities and more offers to choose from.

Indian American

February 7, 2009 11:34 PM

I got my green card on family basis. I formed companies and ran businesses in 5 states in the US and craeted about 200 jobs with 98% American workers and only 4 workers from Bangladesh and India....what does that tell you?

Rogers

February 8, 2009 12:14 AM

this act means the deeper privatization of the banking sector. still a bill for those greedy wall street elites.

only those public banks or firms can receive the TARP money. their leader's pay being cut, their employment being restricted (come on, if a citizen is better qualified than an H1B, would you hire an H1B for extra troubles?), so the public sector will be weakened even more than before.

hola~ let those greedy elites suck up the final drop of the U.S. blood. and blaming this blaming that, until die. lol

To fellow Americans

February 8, 2009 12:27 AM

Dear friends,
Before pointing fingure to H1B holders, Can you honestly think over following points?
1> What made you so incompetitiant that you are loosing jobs to indians?
2> How manh of us holding higher degrees and true work experiance are jobless, due to H1B?
3> Our fathers were also immigrants here, what if they were asked to leave this land on a short notice?
4> How many of us can sustain our jobs, if developing economy like India, china bans USA products?
5> Arent 90% of USA products manuafactured in china? What lead to this situation?
6> When we are doing parties late night or celebrationg hig school, people at India are working more hard to gain knowledge. Whom to blame?
7> Isnt it violation of human rights by making this H1B workers pay for taxes,ssn, medicare and then ask to leave without giving them back the money they have given to US government?
8> By not allowing H1B to change the jobs, if they dont have Green card, what are we promoting? SLAVERY!!
9> By not allowing wifes of H1b holders to work, arent we violation the humen right of that indivisual? We advocate protection of humen rights all over the world but what about this wifes of H1B holders?
over all, how can 0.04% of H1b holders in financial sector caused economy to collapsed? Didnt american economy colleapsed due to greed of American born and citizens of USA???????

H1B, A sad story

February 8, 2009 12:42 AM

Guys...think rationally...dont be emotional

Pols are exploting the man on the street by making a mountain out of mole and blaming legal immigrants for job situation.

H1B (Legal immigrants) were never responsible for the mess. So why make it a scapegoat.

Why dont we first make sure that the AMERICANS who brought the global economy on its knees get punished instead of getting billion dollar bonuses. Its very easy to be jingoistic and make loose statements.

Kat spoke about growing disparity between rich and poor in India....let me tell you thats a global phenomenon which is affecting even the US. Go check the trends if you dont believe me.

Talking about criminal executives, no one can beat America. How can someone be so stupid and bring up issues in other countries when we are at the epicenter of all problems. Try to list the names people behind the battered institutions (starting with Bernie Madoff) and check out how many of them were immigrants.

Its the GREEDY and CORRUPT AMERICAN bankers and financial institutions that caused the mess and massive job losses. So why are we talking about legal immigrants who have been paying taxes even though bulk of them never benefit from their contribution.

There are bigger issues to sort out - Regulating the greedy bankers and hedge funds and other places run by the so called Ivy League Americans, Healthcare, Education system, never quenching thirst for energy (oil), spend-thrift people living beyond their means, a generation that believes in focusing on having fun than bothering to getting educated....

Once all these are sorted all other things will fall in place.

"God please Forgive them, They Don't know, what they are doing" - Jesus

February 8, 2009 12:47 AM

H1Bs are Tax Payers as well. Their Tax structure is NOT at all different than any American Citizen. If AIG was being saved by Tax Payer's Money, there H1Bs as well, who helped AIG (US).

Moreover, H1Bs usually don't own house (so no chance of default), and in a way, they don't get housing tax deduction. There are many controls like this for H1Bs, which makes them to pay higher taxes compared to American Citizen. These (their money) were used to save AIG (US), who spent about $400,000 for its American Citizen Executives to have Spa from nice ladies!

On the other hand, H1Bs come here in US to make their life better, to earn some money which they cannot earn if they were in their home country. With this dedication back in their mind, they work hard and with discipline.

Majority of H1Bs are young aged professionals. Because of their age factors, they are among the best group, who purchases American goods such as electronics from BestBuy, cloth from Macy's and countless other thing etc. They pay sales tax on each of these items. This makes American citizens (who are highly in debt) earn money at store, or via their businesses.

If an American is being replaced by a H1B, its not the cost factor (Only outsourcing has cost advantage, not H1B) -- its in fact, factor of skill-set, productivity, work discipline. Microsoft is only supporting these factor - they are not looking for going cheap with cost cutting. If you (American Citizen) are being replaced because of this skill-set etc. thing, why don't you compete around that, instead of crying over this. You are smart and highly competent if you decide to be one.

Look at micro-economics of this failure, and you will surely come to know, it's not Foreign Immigration Policy, which is affecting the country, it is the Greed and Financial Innovations (derivatives) without regulation -- which killed the economy and now moral (or integrity) of an American. (which is apparent from this new TARP restriction).

Good luck and God Bless the World!

- a Harvard MBA Student

Kent

February 8, 2009 12:59 AM

I am just curious. who is the true Americans to be protected except those natives. :)

Is U.S. still an immigrant country? :)

The Skud

February 8, 2009 01:04 AM

Cheaper goods from China are affecting US manufacturing sector. Is US worried about that at all?

Will US Stop selling goods in other countries?? Will US be okay if the asian countries ban US investment?

In this flat world, every country is mutually dependent on the other..so stop complaining about visa's and get on with your life...

Please understand that the ones living in this country now, were immigrants once upon a time...

Mr. Incredible

February 8, 2009 01:14 AM

Of course H-1B programs need to eliminated, they are disgraceful. But don't believe that any of this will amount to anything new. They are all lying to you, whetting your appetite for justice. In the end, your "public servants" will betray you, mark my words.

Supposed "heroes" like Grassley and Sanders are just puffing their chests - if they REALLY wanted change, they would fight for eliminating these types of shameful programs. This nonsense has been going on for years. These guys are on the take for multinationals just like all of congress.

And since free traitor Obama also supports H-1B programs, they will be here for at least another 4 years.

Same ol', same ol'

cubicle

February 8, 2009 01:29 AM

Just an observation -
Everyone talking about Indians, what about the Chinese or Europeans using the H1 program?
Also, isn't there be a difference between an H1B who graduated from MIT and H1B from TCS working for peanuts?
Why not have something like bar exam or SAT that every foreign Engineer/IT guy has to take to prove his/her competency? That way, we can weed out the Cheap labor and retain the smart ones ? Just trying to be objective here !!

AP

February 8, 2009 01:35 AM

Every body,

read this report on the "report" first

" Associated Press investigative report on H-1B hiring by Banks proved false"


http://www.nfap.com/pdf/090205policybrief.pdf

lz

February 8, 2009 02:00 AM

never mind. Most U.S. college students even don't study advanced calculus and all they know are just "party""rap""get laid down". They are simply not capable competing with Asia students who spend 10 hours studying match/physics/etc. from childrenhood.

yes, there are good U.S. students in graduate schools, maybe around 10%. And the other 90% are Asians. Well, most U.S. people don't go to graduate school, so they simply don't know the fact.

never mind. If you stop H1b, jobs will oursource. They don't belong to lazy people who even cannot work for 9 hours per day.

techie

February 8, 2009 02:11 AM

GUys
when will this recession end or will it go as long as a depression and contunie for 10-15 years like JAPAN??????

what will be effect on india??????????????????????

Mansa

February 8, 2009 02:21 AM

First and foremost, for anyone to say that H1-Bs are brought in because the US lacks the skilled individuals is a lie. I have been at many companies where well qualified developers were 're-assigned' such that an H1-B may take their position.
Indians are not just as good as they portray themselves to be. I have overseen (read project managed) the outsourcing of operations to INdia..these guys are good at blowing hot air, but they lack significantly when it comes to management issues (trust me, I spent many a sleepless night on this)..they are good at coding, but can't really run a business.
Furthermore, when they get a lock on a company (i.e. when they become the preferred vendor), they bring in nothing but Indians..which is RACIST -- because they discriminate against all non-INdians, regardless of whether or not one is qualified.
I am going to write to the Department of Justice, the Department of Labor as well as the two senators and request that they investigate a lot of these companies where there are a lot of H1-Bs, and where Indian firms are preferred vendors. If these guys want to do business in this country, then they need to abide by our laws..this is not INdia.
And lest some of you (Indians) forget, your economy is intricately tied to the US. Be aware, as someone who has worked on these outsourcing deals in the past, many companies are starting to look elsewhere; they complain that quality of work from India is not the best, and the cost of operations is starting to get too high..so they are starting to explore other possibilities. When that happens, your economy might just collapse, so please stop feeding your egoes.

SVEngineer

February 8, 2009 02:28 AM

My fellow Americans,

You are "STUPID" because you are now in 40's or 50's and could not keep up with the new technologies as fast as those young H1-B workers.

You are "LAZY" because you want to balance your life and work.

You are "EXPENSIVE" because you want to maintain a decent living standard.

That is why the employers need H1-B workers to replace your jobs.

If you really want to keep your job, that is easy. Do the following:
- Work 24/7. Bring a sleeping bag to your office and stuff it under your desk. Oh, I assume your company provides shower facility. You really don't have any strong reason to go home.

You really don't need to WASTE your time with your family and participate your kids' activities.

- Sell your house and move your whole family to a one-bedroom apartment. Your kids really don't need their own bedrooms.

We are in Globalization Era. Why can't you have the same living standard as the other countries? Lower living standard means you could take lower salary.

If you can live and work like that, I can guarantee that your job would never be replaced by anyone.

Good luck and God Bless American!

- A Silicon Valley Immigrant Engineer (Once a H1-B worker)

likexx

February 8, 2009 02:40 AM

it's interesting to see these "rules" are proposed by states like Iowa/etc., who actually doesn't have much H1b workers and in a really "poor" situation.

The more prosperous States, such as CA/NY/WA/TX/etc., who have better economy conditions and KNOW the benefits of H1B workers to the states, never say such stupid words to "limit" h1b.

If H1B workers go away, U.S. economy will collapse for sure. Joke? Give you a simple fact: if MSFT laid off half H1Bs, most restaurants/shopping malls/grocery stores will shut down, and those business are opened by U.S. citizen.

swadeshi

February 8, 2009 02:45 AM

now now.. isnt this termed as protectionism, when what should be done is to clean up the mess created by the american finacial system!

i think the US policy makers need to understand that these type of policies can have its ugly impact where people in other countries might ban US made goods, and this might have serious repurcussions on the US and possibly the world market.. stop living in glass houses US!!

KG

February 8, 2009 02:52 AM

Sanders, the son of Jewish-Polish immigrants to the United States, was born in Brooklyn. He graduated from James Madison High School in Brooklyn and later attended the University of Chicago, graduating with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1964.[3] Sanders moved to Vermont in 1964. He worked as a carpenter and journalist.

H1-B doubtor

February 8, 2009 03:01 AM

Pick any Silicon Valley High Tech. company and you will see H1-B workers are almost 50% in each hiring batch.

If the hiring manager is an Indian, H1-B workers could be as much as 70% (of course, most of them are Indians).

Seeing this, I can't help thinking of the scheme of replacing American workers' jobs.

Can you call 50%-70% H1B hires as "supplement"?

Since when, have qualified American workers become so "rare"?

Since when, can qualified American workers only take 50% or even 30% of hires?

Since when, are American graduates less competitive than those foreigners with the same education background?

Since when, has H1B program changed to a REPLACEMENT program from a SUPPLEMENT one?


One More Time

February 8, 2009 03:01 AM

Remember that this mess was created by corps who were able to outsmart the govt. So don't worry, capitalism didnt work, and as we know from all around the world, socialism doesn't either.

Ex L1B and H1B

February 8, 2009 03:19 AM

Few notes:
1. H1B's can be divided among two classes: H1Bs employed by American companies and H1Bs employed by outsourcers
2. L1B & L1A s employed by American companies and outsourcers.
3. H1B has quota, min wage but transferable amomg employers restrictions. Spouses of H1 cannot work
4. L1B & L1A has no quota's, intra-company transferees..cannot change employers in US.Spouse of L1s can work
5. L1A as managers/executives of MNC can be sponsored for GC in EB1 catagory.
6. L1B and H1B is same boat.
7. For employer perspective L1B is the best, you get a bonded slave to use at will and help you in outsourcing.
8. H1Bs can change jobs, so try to tie them with green card carrot and they become slaves till green card is processed.
9. Best option, offshore rather than outsource, suck out American jobs, then no need to think of H1 and L1s visa processing.

H1-Bdoubtor

February 8, 2009 03:27 AM

I totally agree what Stephen said.

Actually it is a very common practice occurring every day in Silicon Valley.

When an Indian worker gets promoted to management position, he/she would immediately start the practice of pro-Indian and anti-American discrimination.

Using the power, he/she will manipulate the hiring process to heavily hire the H1-B workers from his/her home country.

Sometimes H1-B Indian workers can be as many as 50% in his/her hires. By this way, he/she could turn his/her team to an Indian dominant team within 2 years.

So, if you have a new Indian manager, watch out.

rahul

February 8, 2009 04:14 AM

i feel feds money to save companies wont help and GM,FORD and many more will collapse in 2009.

i feel unemployment rate will touch 15% by dec 2009 and peak at 18% by mid 2010

Jason

February 8, 2009 05:21 AM

Shame on you! Grassley
Shame on you! Associate Press
Shame on all of you who blame your own failure on those who really make great contributions to this country.

Who keep selling the worthless bonds backed by those mortgages that do not even have any income behind them? It is you, the American executives of frannie mac, fannie mae, Lehman br., bearstern,.

Who keep luring people to borrow money from banks with near-zero intro. interest rate, even if they know you do not have enough income? Who keep promising you that the housing price will keep increasing? It is you, American mortgage lender and salesmen.

Who keep manufacturing those oil-sucking SUVs, even if they know the oil price sky-rockets? It is you, the American executives of GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

Who keep buying luxury purses, cars, electronic gadgets, and only paying monthly minimum in their credit card bill? It is you, the irresponsible American consumers. You dumb ass really think you deserve those without hardworking?

Who keep receiving billions of dollars as bonus even if the banks keep losing billions of capital every day? It is you, the American executives and traders of Wall Street investment banks.

Who keep selling the insurance to bonds worth billions, without even a penny as deposit? It is you, the American traders and sellers of Credit Default Swap. You dumb ass really think you can insure billions with barely any money in hands?

Who keep running a big Ponzi scheme under the eyes of the so-claimed most alert security and exchange administration? It is you, the former American NASDAQ chairman and Wall Street celebrity Madoff.

Who dare to buy 100$ and sell another 100$ worth of stock with just 1$ in hand? It is you, the American hedge fund managers. You dumb ass really think your computer models work like God?

Who keep ignoring all of these and still keep bragging about the most efficient and robust free market? It is you, the American government and agencies.

Who chose such a dumb President and government for the past 8 years? It is you, the American voters.

Now let us see who keep the competitiveness of this country even during the financial crisis. Intel, Google, Microsoft, Sun Micro, NVIDIA, etc, within those brand names, how many H1-B workers and new immigrants work day and night to find a bug within the labs and offices? The products of these companies make billions of dollars even during the financial crisis and they will never ever ask for government bailout. Yeah, there are many Americans in those companies, if you look at executives, HRs, legal department, finance, press release, and communications. The H1-Bs take the dirtiest parts of work, and pay full Fed, State taxes, SS, and Medicare. Hundreds of thousands of H1-Bs held hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, because they save money and they are ready to buy houses once their green cards get approved. This bailout of the US housing market does not need a penny from taxpayers, and it is huge and effective. Most of them have already been waiting in the line for years, and suffering from unfair and cold service all the way from the inefficient US immigration system.

America, if you just blindly forgive those who really make you suffer, and blame on those who are actually helping this country and making this country greater, you will fail.

talk shoe

February 8, 2009 05:41 AM

H1b holders did not cause this crisis. We need to spend more time on education. Any country should not totally depend on other countries, no matter USA, India or China. And finally, don't trust politicians.

TVAddict

February 8, 2009 06:00 AM

America was colonized by the immigrants from Europe. An now we have these very immigrants who are against immigration. Typical American (not really native) view point. When China buffs up its currency, it protectionism. When US slams restrictions on qualified people, it the right...way to go Mr Obama (harbinger of change to Washington).

Vijay

February 8, 2009 07:58 AM

As rightly said by Ron Hira, “These are hardly onerous expectations....” This H1 restriction hardly makes any difference to the economy. This bill is supposed to be a stimulus bill. With H1 restrictions this bill looks more like a 'revenge' bill. Spending money on Hybridization of federal fleet, Smithsonian upgrade, H1 restrictions etc.. will not kick off economy. Be practical !!

Senators will have to get advises from Chiefs of major conglomerates like GE, Hyundai, Toyota, Hitachi etc. As these orgs have interests in various industries, they know which industry can kick off the economy back.

Forget India, it is a mere consumer of American goods, which helps!!!

daisy

February 8, 2009 10:41 AM

H1b workers also pay tax as much as American workers. They also get lower pays compared to American workers. The economic stimulus plan should focus on how to motivate employment instead of cutting others to make up the positions. Also, most of the unemplyed workers right now do not have a BA/BS degree. How do you expect them to work in the highly skilled positions?

LaBeets

February 8, 2009 11:19 AM

Your problem with H-1B's and Outsourcing American Jobs is you.

Learn to vote like I did, when you walk into the Voting booth, if the Congressman or Senator is running for Re-Election, vote for the other person.

Forget about Party affiliation, when you smarten up and learn that non of these fools in Washington are for you, you'll learn how to vote and improve your life.

Indian

February 8, 2009 12:11 PM

Well, I will call this penny wise pound foolish. Just compare the work an Indian worker does in a US Corporation. Majority of the US workers are tired after working for 6 hours - time including time spent chatting to others about Hockey/Basket Ball/Soccer/Gambling/Club exploits. The difference is as clear as night & day. Most Indians grew up seeing the harsh conditions which makes them closer to reality than everyone else. I agree with one of the persons who said Indians toil for hours every day studying for exams whereas, Networking/smoking/drugs are all majority of American teens/youth are interested in. Do some soul searching as to how much of a negative difference 50,000 H1Bs make to the whole economy.

Indian

LL

February 8, 2009 12:23 PM

As a foreigner who works in a leading university, I see serious problem in your education system. College students in your country are so lazy that they can miss morning classes just because they want to party late at night. These same students can beg for higher scores in your system just because they have rights to evaluate their teachers.
I think now it's time for Americans to ask why these banks NEED foreign workers. Is it not because your own college graduates are not as competent?

Now you are using the new law to push these more competent foreign professionals to Europe and Japan, your own competitors. I think they will thank you a lot for this. And the last time I checked, the US is the immigrant country and it's supposed to be great because it has assimilated some of the best human resources in the world.

I can't count how many times it has been for me to laugh at your congressmen's naive if not ridiculous decisions. And by the way, these congressmen are educated in your universities too.

Winny

February 8, 2009 12:41 PM

I am just waiting for what/who else they can blame at the same time of next yr!! They just want to ultilize some "fancy" new political policy to please some ppl and comfort the more and more unemployee. How it will be helpful???why not just go back to their office and really do sth to this really bad economic?

Silicon Valley Reality

February 8, 2009 01:17 PM

If you are an American citizen and think you act "so fairly" to support H1-B program, I strongly suggest you to come and visit Silicon Valley.

You would see how many American engineers, with advanced degree and special skill set, lost their jobs.

You would see how companies use H1-B workers to convert the workplace to a desperate sweatshop.

You would see how companies tolerate Indian managers to openly practice anti-American discrimination.

For those people sitting in corner office, revenue growth is too hard to achieve and cost cutting is too easy to accomplish. As long as the PROFIT is high enough, their magnificent bonus will be guaranteed. Since tools of outsourcing and H1-B are so convenient, why don't they take the advantage to the extreme?

By the way, most of those people sitting in corner office don't want their own kids to be engineers any more. They don't want their own kids to compete with H1-B workers face to face. With millions of millions dollars they made, their kids don't really have to work.

What a sarcastic reality!

GM_FORD_CHRYSLER

February 8, 2009 01:22 PM

Three happy American employers without many H1B's. Count on them to get your American dream. Oh yes yes yes!
LOL

H1b Discrimination

February 8, 2009 01:42 PM

With all the anti-H1 measures US is adopting with the rhetoric that H1bs are scamming US citizens, wonder if Sen Grassley and other such suckers would look at how US is exploiting the H1bs.
H1B visa holders are temporary workers and are not entitled to social security benefits, yet they are made to pay SSN tax.This SSN tax should be refunded back to the H1b holders if they do not go on and get a permanent resident status.
US govt blatantly ignores this fact and shamelessly feeds on the hardwork of the H1Bs.
Also, last year the govt issued a tax credit of 600$ per head for every tax payer who had a certain income.This credit was denied to the H1b Visa holders who had dependents on H4 visa and hence had no SSN number.This clause makes no sense and shows the height of the US govt shamelessness to deny the H1s their fair share of govt benefits.
H1s are treated like permanent residents only when Taxing them.

vivand

February 8, 2009 01:43 PM

The H1 Program is nothing but a benefit to the American economy in terms of highly skilled, reasonably salaried, steady, tax paying and productive workers. That is why it has been successfully continued for over 2 decades! It will now be lost thanks to the short sighted and political games being played by the politicians to shift the focus away from the real source of the fiscal problems.

The fact also is that most top engineering and business school graduates in developing countries like India, Phillippines and China have stopped applying for H1 visas. They have much better options at home with a growing economy. Also other developed countries like Germany, Japan, Australia and Canada are beginning to realize the value of a skilled worker program and openly soliciting them in local newspapers. This is a trend that will now continue. So this whole issue is quite baseless and overrated.

richb

February 8, 2009 01:56 PM

not many H1b holders anyway, the max is about 400k h1b holders in a 6 year period, think about many already left, many do not work in finance related area, so it is less than 100k I guess. How much difference can that make.

The Biased Hiring Process

February 8, 2009 01:57 PM

I once worked under an Indian manager at a big Silicon Valley company. Since I was a senior engineer, I was involved in all the hiring process.

Seeing all the hiring decisions were so biased, I was sick to my stomach.

After interviewed all the candidates, the manager and all interviewers had a meeting to review the candidates.

During the meeting, all the shortcomings of American candidates were exaggerated while their positive points were minimized.

If it came to Indian H1-B candidates, all the atmosphere changed instantly. All the positive points were magnified and all the negative points were no-big-deals.

If you tried to protest, you would feel the strong hostile attitude from your Indian manager. Well, for my own job security, I shut up.

So, after such a "fair" hiring process, 50% of new hires were, of course, Indian H1-B workers.

Rana

February 8, 2009 03:01 PM

All Voting games!
Capitalism is America's way of doing things. Not socialism. America is the by far the most successful country and will be always.

Preventing H1B's will severely affect its growth and relation with countries. In this Globalized world, if one is trying to mark border will be doing it blindly and without any ideas.

Obama administration is smart enough to see this and I am sure, these kind of foolish arrangements won't be made sinking the future further.

MeMyself

February 8, 2009 03:49 PM

With narrow-minded xenophobias like some of you, this country is turning into communism.

Let me quote a Briton (http://www.wilmott.com/messageview.cfm?catid=16&threadid=68385):

"America has to import bankers because an education system run by teaching unions and evangelical Christians is unlikely to deliver the skills necessary for the 20th century, much less the 21st."

h1protester

February 8, 2009 03:59 PM

American politicians have lost perspective. It is simply a matter of prevailing economic conditions. At the time of information technology boom of the 90s, having H1 workers program was a necessity. With todays job market - having lost 2.8 million jobs just last year and unemployment rate at 7.6% and poised to go up - a more restrictive H1 visa program is relevant. American economy depends on American consumer spending and if Americans aren't employed, they are not going to spend and American economy is not going to recover.

Congratulations to Senator Grassley to take this first step. I hope they will be more forceful and propose a temporary ban on H1B program for 2 years.

John

February 8, 2009 04:05 PM

Some of the complaints seem to be solely about "Indians" yet there are over 180 other countries in the world eligible to use H1-Bs. Does this mean that these complaints would not exist if British or Canadians or any other nationality except Indian comprised a significant number of H1-B visas? Secondly for the poster who listed Intel as being a creation of US citizens you were partly right only but you neglected to acknowledge that an Immigrant from Hungary, Andy Grove was involved. How about we talk about Intel, Nvidia, Google, Paypal, Microsoft's Hotmail and where they would be were it not for immigrant founders or contributors. Perhaps Grassley should consider targetting H1-Bs in the healthcare sector next and lets see jobs freed up for Americans to take over from the affected doctors and nurses. Or lets target the Universities and institutions of learning and replace the professors who on H1-B with Americans starting with the most prestigious institutions. Grassley might not have myopia so as not to see or know precisely what he is doing, he simply has adopted the nativist agenda and become their man in congress.

Tony

February 8, 2009 04:19 PM

They should let people who receive degree only from US to be eligible for H1B, I know a lot of evil indian it companies they sell h1b to those indian people directly from india which in most of the cases those companies don't even have jobs.... I even know those indian IT companies filed multiple times for 1 employee, wtf! Keep those indians who without a US degree out of US and ban those so called indian IT companies that abused H1B!

SK

February 8, 2009 04:48 PM

I can't stop laughing at the american's who think that the H1B folks are making around 40K only. Most of the H1B folks make around 75K plus within a year or so. So stop calling them cheap labor.

Scrataz

February 8, 2009 05:07 PM

Quote by Mr Bhagwati, Professor at Columbia Business School -- "The people whom you're hiring from India and from, you know, China and from -- the top universities, they're the smart lot, they're not really substitutes for guys who can't get jobs," Bhagwati argued during at a conference organized by the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

Assuming that all H1Bs are equal is naive. Even if one out of 65000 a year H1Bs or an international student "makes it" and creates firms like Google, it pays more wealth than what one could have bargained for.

Restricting skilled labor in a global economy only attests to the increasing intellectual bankruptcy of politicians and gullible junta.


National jingoism only makes it worse.History has vividly documented how protectionism leads to trade-wars and has the potential to turn recession into depression. Go read!

Every one in this world has the right to pursue happiness and dream for a better life for herself and her family.

I worked on H-1B for banks for years and did not have health insurance and was cheated

February 8, 2009 05:38 PM


I came on H-1B and still waiting for green card after more then 8 years. I worked for body shopper (called High Tech Company). I worked for many financial companies. There is always a written agreement between ppreferred vendor and financial istitution (or a company that utilizes services of H-1B holder) that the consultant will get regular salary, benefits and pay. Similar agreement is signed between body shopper and preferred vendor. It is never honoured. Every body know that H-1B holders do not get salary and benefits regularly and are cheated. I did not get salary. When I asked, my green card was delayed. Every law is for exploitation. Now why should an employer will hire American. THE ECONOMY WILL NEVE BE ROBUST UNLESS H-1B or similar visa are completely banned. I am helpless watching this mess and can not do anything. I feel corporate America rules the country and use it for short term financial gain.

Please remember ecomomy depends upon the purchasing power of Americans and that has been constantly being compromised. It is wrong notion that economy will grow when companies make money BUT not the people (who buy the products produced by those companies). Reality is that if all the jobs generated by IT industry alone in only last 8 years would have remained in the country, there would not have been any recession. Companies still would have made money. Microsoft still do not any threat for its operating systems. An American can not be easily exploited and therefore CAN NOT compete with H-1B holder. American worked can take action because he does NOT require sponsorship to change the job or quit. Body shoppers therefore rarely hire Americans. There are thousands of body shoppers and they hire only Indians.

dont

February 8, 2009 05:39 PM

It's a simple request - Don't use my tax dollars to replace me with an H1-B who only views this country as a paycheck.

Mario

February 8, 2009 05:46 PM

Wow... a lot of angry people.
The H-1B1 program has been abused by MANY companies/individuals. It has also been the reason of much wealth created in the US. There it is, good and bad.
Stop whining (both locals and immigrants). Life isn't perfect.


Mugs

February 8, 2009 07:00 PM

I respect everyone on this forum. It does not matter you are a US Citizen or or a Indian or H1B Visa holders. We can't be emotional here. We have to seriously sit and think the state of the economy in US and around the world.
Outsourcing is happening for decades if not for centuries.

AlexB

February 8, 2009 07:12 PM

About time. Though Sen Grassley is a Republican and up until this year Repubs have always been for higher H1B quotas. But now they see how that has hurt the American worker, finally. We'll see what happens but hopefully this is the end of H1B/L1 visas, period.

Mugs

February 8, 2009 07:19 PM

I respect everyone on this forum. It does not matter you are a US Citizen or or an Indian or a H1B Visa holder. We can't be emotional here. This is a global cricis. All hands on deck here. We have to seriously sit and think the state of the economy in US and around the world.Outsourcing is happening for decades if not for centuries. Let us not fuel the emotions here. I do not blame senators for what they have done; they are simply reflecing the people feelings they got vote from. Also note that there is not real representation for immigrants except company heads like Bill Gates etc. It is very well known fact that the mathematics involvement by Kids generally down. This is mainly comman in core americans. I have heard school teachers complaining about their school and social system. I guess America on a path where sports and entertainment takes a center stage in any conversation or in any setup as supposed to academics. This is my general non-scientific observation. Again not to say I greatly admire the pioneer spirit of Americans in the past and in the present. I can go on all the good things Americans and America has done to the world and including to me. But we should acknowledge that there is a fundamental problem here. American dream needs little bit of reality check. The world is becoming increasing competitive with Russians, Chinese, Indians, Brazialns trying to improve their life. I think Obama realize this. As I learnt in America there is no such thing called free lunch. Computer programming is becoming more complex there is a big digital divide is happening between the know-how's and know-nots. Only Obama can not fix by himselves (altohugh be can a catalyst). Only American people including the new immigrants can fix.

Tom Brown

February 8, 2009 07:22 PM

Congress Takes a Wrong Turn on Way to Stimulus

Instead of seeing the current economic calamity as a global problem and immigrants as part of the collective solution, the Senate unwisely chose to restrict the financial industry's access to top-flight global talent who can help create jobs for U.S. workers. In these difficult economic times, we cannot afford knee-jerk, fear driven policies that will stymie growth. Our nation's capacity to funnel the world's diverse talent pool into a highly productive economic engine is a central reason that we are the wealthiest nation in history.

Congress should adopt forward-looking policies that embrace our status as the preeminent landing spot for the world's best and brightest. It is time to turn our back on short-sighted, insular policies, not on the world's highest achievers who can help lift us from our economic malaise.

Murali Thoota

February 8, 2009 07:28 PM

H1B program only allows 85,000 per year. The jobs lost in the last 6 months is around 2.5 Million. Can a 85,000 job's program displace 2.5 million American employees?

All over the world, American companies sell their products - Do you know - at least 50% of the revenues for companies like Coca Cola, Pepsi, Intel, Microsoft come from foreign countries? If US was to boycott H1B workers - and if the foreign companies follow the suit - what will happen to American Industry??

Mansa

February 8, 2009 07:47 PM

My last comment
I honestly do not believe that Americans are so mean spirited as to hate INdians. The main issue, as per this forum seems to be that:
1. H1-Bs are being unfavorably used to replace qualified americans
2. Hiring managers (in IT) seek to replace all american workers with Indians and hence transform their IT departments into Indian IT departments n(I wonder if these INdian managers get kick-backs?)
3. It seems that the vast majority of H1-Bs (and I may be wrong) at least in IT, come from India.
Anyway, having been a victim of this Indian discrimination, it is good to know that I am not the only one, that it is indeed a widespread phenomenom.
This forum and my past experiences have now given me the ammunition I need to bring this to the attention of my 2 senators as well as the Department of Justice and Department of Labor.
Thanks..Hopefully if all American workers who have suffered as a result of this write to the DOJ and DOL as well as your senators, maybe if we make enough noise, then this nonsense can stop.

K

February 8, 2009 07:51 PM

I knew the current generation of Americans are idiots, who know how to talk but little beyond that...that's more than amply proved by just rreading some of these posts. I don't know why H1Bs still waste their effort on these forums trying to reply to these lazy, useless, hopeless high school graduates - leave them to their fate...just go home to whereever you came from. Very soon, America will become a fourth world country populated by drug addicts and lazy bums.

Mr. Incredible

February 8, 2009 08:08 PM

There is no "wealth" created by H-1B programs, only misery for Americans. It is a total multinational scam importing cheap foreign labor, that's all. There never was a labor shortage in America, and there CERTAINLY isn't one now!

For the facts:

http://www.american-consensus.org/topics/insourcing/insourcing.html


George

February 8, 2009 08:10 PM

What if Chineese and Indians ban buying Ford, GM cars, motorollo mobiles, MS software, Dell, HP..... and if they start buying only Korean and japaneese. All AMerican companies will go bankrupt.

Bob

February 8, 2009 08:20 PM

I find it really really funny how all this works. People from overseas feel that American workers are all partiers and don't work hard enough. Americans feel that foreigners are taking their jobs away. People overseas are forced to work 16+ hours a day, Americans are forced to compete with 2 people overseas doing their job for half the money. It's a cycle of unrest and xenophobia on both sides.

Meanwhile, the guys on Wall Street (who do the hiring) and the people at companies like...um...Satyam (who provide the workers) are laughing at all of us while they make their way to the bank (pun intended). This is not some consipracy fantasy. This is what is acutally happening. Look around, those in India and the US. The guys at the top are making the rules, ruining BOTH countries in the process, and walking away with huge sums of money. And we argue about H1B's etc. There are extremely talented people inn both lands. Just as those who exploit everyone. I am not a socialist. I am a captialist. But we don't have capitalism anymore. This is now as close to financial factism as you can get. Welcome to the 21st century. We (Wall Street) screw up. Doesn't matter. We go to the government and take the "cattle's" tax money to cover our loses.

MeMyself

February 8, 2009 09:03 PM

Some of you just don't get it. You are barking up the wrong tree. You overspending people buy homes you can't afford, your shortsighted congressmen call for immigration reform, only to benefit those illegal ones. The smartest of you took manager's roles and highest pay -- the rest of you need a calculator to know 80% of 9 is 7.2 -- and often you are wrong because of your fat finger pressing the wrong buttons. Who to blame? The H1-B crowd who pay much more taxes than you on average? It is you, a majority of you, who elected Mr Bush, TWICE, not the H1-B crowd who don't have the right to vote.

If you ban H1-B, those smartest workers will go to small firms, or Credit Suisse, UBS, your bank's competitors. American banks will create more jobs in Europe, Asian, instead of hiring incompetent you guys (not because you weren't born smart but because of your stupid education system). You can't win, because you lose to the smartest Americans -- Corporate America. That's all this country about.

Internationals

February 8, 2009 09:31 PM

Without internationals, the US is an empty mansion. Because, only party guys and CEO's are left. Who are going to work?

whizz

February 8, 2009 09:37 PM

Our honorable senator said, its tax payer's money.Mr.Horrible Senator(s), All of the H1B employees pays the tax.So, if you already know this then your seriously a damn racist who wants to give the jobs only because of their citizenship and not because of talent.

I am really sorry for America having such a racist as a senator

D

February 8, 2009 09:46 PM

No more H1B...then more K-12 school teachers will be laid off; more immigrant lawyers will close their firms (how many employees are in one firm?); more officers working for USCIS will go home, etc, etc...still thinking cutting H1b will solve the problem? short-sighted and narrow minded!

gerald

February 8, 2009 10:21 PM

It is a realy a good news for the countries other than U.S. They can have their elite people back without paying anything. Hopfully the same thing will not happen in science and engineering fields. May god bless America!

MeMyself

February 8, 2009 10:45 PM

To the guy who wants to stop employment based green card:

Do you even know that the number one EB category? Do you even know there are more foreign born science professors/researchers than US-born ones in US universities who got their green card from this EB1 category?

For a majority of your college kids, their whole four year lives revolve around super bowls/NBA's. What do most of them do after graduation? Without the foreign born professors' enlightenment more of the kids will contribute even less to the society.

Again, the smartest Americans get the best in this country.

JackDaniel

February 8, 2009 10:48 PM

To all fellow Americans..Facts
Niel Kashkari (The Brains Behind the TARP is the son of an Indian Immigrant.
Vikram Pandit(new CEO of Citigroup is born Indian.
The head of PEPSI is an indian woman(Indra Nooyi).
lets throw them out ...oh wait can we ?..lol

JC

February 8, 2009 11:33 PM

As a Chinese H1B. I would say I don't like Indian H1B either. They seriously abuse H1B policy. And a lot of them are only good at talk but not at work. They are good at ass kissing their manager. They hire only Indian. They show off with 100% confidence when they actually know nothing.

AJ

February 8, 2009 11:52 PM

I would like to make a point about India also have criminal executives and companies like Satyam and Sanjay Kumar for example as a response to Kat. Executives from satyam learnt to cheat from American companies. Companies started doing that from 90's and Indian companies just caught up. Satyam scandal has Ameircan brand written all over it. America is now outsourcing fraud. Many analysts knew that there is lot of cooking numbers involved in earning reports of major financial institutions, but still recommend buying their shares. why, a simple mantra: we dont care if you lie, but dont get caught doing that.

Tom Slovaski

February 9, 2009 12:17 AM

I have seen the indian hiring manager took well planned steps to get rid of the non-India US workers little by little. My fellow US citizens keep quiet though angry but eventually get laid off, which is so sad. If you see a higher level Indian director and then a middle level Indian manager and then very soon you will see more than 50%-70% of Indians in the group with some of in US and some of them in India. There is NO exception.

The group also sponsored Indian employees to come to US for regular trainings. The US workers worked as mentor for the Indian newbies. But the US workers were struggling to get any decent training to improve themselves. According the manager, there is no money to train the US workers. It is so obvious the Indian manager is protecting and nurturing their own guys.

The same replacement scenario does not happen to Chinese or European hiring manager because they tend to play a fair employment game. That's why there is growing hatred toward the Indian people. It is not a respectable culture if helping your own family and friends will bring damage to other people.

SVEngineer

February 9, 2009 01:20 AM

OK, now it comes to the point that:
- American students are all STUPID and LAZY.
- American education system is a total failure.
- Thus, all American workers educated from this "failed" system are all STUPID and LAZY.

So the conclusions are too obvious:
- American worker are NOT deserve decent jobs. Those jobs should be replaced.
- Those politicians, who try to protect American workers, are all STUPID.

Oops, I guess this is a huge surprise to most of our fellow Americans. We did not expect that our life style and working style are so disgusting to our foreign workers.

We thought why they come to this country is because they love the way we are living and working. Unfortunately we are WRONG!

ABS

February 9, 2009 01:34 AM

Oh, how classic! Politicians need an agenda which can get them through to the next term and what a prize catch they have! This is how Americans are in the position they are in right now. i would want to call it the "work flow to doom"

Banks sell loans to people by making them believe that they can pay them back -> people fail to understand that 8% APR is NOT 0% APR -> They remortgage homes -> banks are glad to lend more money only the APR is 20% this time round -> people don't have money to pay back loans -> they don't have money to spend on basic things to live -> banks don't have money to lend anymore -> insurance cos don't have money to pay the banks they insured -> they close down -> retail growth goes into red -> more bankruptcy shows up -> people are laid off -> economy goes down the drain -> all this while Pres. Bush is fighting unwanted wars in multiple nations spending trillions. WOW!

Unfortunately H1B holders are being made the problem here. Although none of the decisions made in the work flow to doom above was by H1 holders!

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I am waiting for the day when great Americans will declare their nation closed to anyone from outside their country. The circle has been completed. The golden era of Asia begins now.

Lighten Up !!

February 9, 2009 01:41 AM

This is ridiculously unbelievable.

12 million illegals, violate the laws as soon as they enter, pay no taxes, approx 5% of them criminals, 1 SSN to pay 100 tax returns, live a low cost life, no spending, transfer all possible earned cash across the border. Yet American public would Voice FOR "amigos".


H1Bs:
- Enter legally
- Pay tax for every penny earned
- Highly Educated in Maths/Science
- Employers pay $1500 for every H1B just to educate another US citizen. $1000 in application fee. $2000 in lawyers fee.
- SSN / Medicare taxes paid, that they don't even have a chance to get back.
- Spouse can't work.
- Can't change jobs.
- Lose a job, go home.
- Yet wait 10 years to get a green card, leave alone Citizenship.

American People, Lighten up.

Want to "drink beer" with a guy who jumped fence to work in a meat plant ?

Grant amnesty to 12 million "Illegals".

Want to compete with a guy who came to America to do his M.S or PhD ?

Reform Legal Immigration.

You choose !!

Meat plant or MIT ?


who'sthebeneficiary?

February 9, 2009 01:54 AM

Hello,

There have been some important issues that were cited in this discussion forum ,which I feel were overlooked during the decision process.The focus should be on creating more and more Job opportunities and any decision made today to improve the economy should finally be responsible to answer the cause.

Who is benefited by this amendment ? I don't see this doing any good to the citizens but the outsourced employees.I have been a victim of outsourcing myself .I don't understand the overall point in restricting H1B's .Saying this,I feel the decisions still seems to be in the interests of the Citizens and might silence some agitated unemployed workers for a while, but this will backfire and increases outsourcing to very great extends . What is the fun in a H1B employer filing a H1B when you are willingly giving him all he needs at home. I don't really understand how a senator could even ignore such a simple point

The concept is about stabilizing the economy . This can be achieved only by

1.Encouraging the firms on maintaining the current number of employees.ways like cutting down on costs,possible exempts from the senate for maintaining the work force.

2.Increasing the overall job opportunities,starting off with sectors that can be easily recovered.

3.A proper structural plan is to be requested from the companies requesting Bail Out.Making sure the debts issued are helping the economy.

4.Encourage local production and usage.

But,setting restrictions on the H1B employees will never solve the issue,but would rather waste the useful time that should be used in the thought process.

jobs

February 9, 2009 04:27 AM

America belongs to Americans!

Wow

February 9, 2009 04:59 AM

You jingos need to realize the DIFFERENCE between highly skilled H1B workers vs. outsourcing. These are two difference entities.

Mandrake

February 9, 2009 10:41 AM

Jobs - You got it spot on, brother! America belongs to Americans.

And only Americans reserve the right to f##k up their economy with their obtuse fiscal habits and cause a domino effect on the global economy. America belongs to the American government that was until about a few weeks ago, run by a certified ape who deregulated everything and kept pumping billions and gazillions of taxpayer dollars (at this juncture I'd like to remind the xenophobe reader not to conveniently exclude immigrant tax and social security $$ from the equation - thank you) and thousands of American lives in a war under the pretext of national security. A new government is going to dig further into the same pool in order to save the very corporations that lie at the vortex of the current situation.

Yes. America belongs to Americans. And I'm sure a feeling of national pride and patriotism wells up in the heart of many a proud American when he realizes how he's been shortchanged by his own system, his own people, his own government.

Enter Senator Mr.White-trash-inbred-hickie-stoned-on-Grass-ley. History tells him it's real easy to use mass media as a tool divert the attention of the average, budweiser-drinker, ignorant, racist, xenophobe, fellow-American from the crux of the problem. And to make things easier for him, the common American is pi$$ed! Capitalism has failed. Socialism is awkward. It's time for Nationalism. It's time to find a scapegoat. It's time to prove the farce that Equal Opportunity Employment is, it's time to sharpen our knives and point 'em at immigrants!

MeMyself

February 9, 2009 10:42 AM

Dear SVEngineer,

When I was pursuing PhD from a top US university, my advisor was a US-born professor. At my previous two jobs, my bosses are both US-born, smart and powerful. I respect them. I may never be able to reach their level in my life, but I hope my kid(s) can. This is the reason I came to US, because it's a place that recognizes and rewards one's ability.

On the other hand, it's a shame that USA, being the only superpower in the world, produces high school graduates who cannot do simple math. If one can't do simple math, how can s/he get a job in high tech or banking? The one who needs a calculator to get 0.8 x 9 = 7.2 is a real life example: it's one of the undergraduates in the top school I TA'ed when I was a graduate student, and the course is a quantitative one.

Most H1-B's, including myself, lead a balanced life as well. I do not work 24/7. I earn more money than an average American only because I'm smarter and because I receive much better college education from my home country and graduate school education from US. Coming from countries that are not as rich, we know the virtue of saving. We do not borrow from credit card to spend on things we don't need, nor do we buy homes we can't afford. Yet we are paying the price when the irresponsible Americans are getting aids from US government. It's our tax money as well.

Most legal H1-B's, as well as our families, add values to this country. We abide by law, we are smarter than average Americans and we are hard-working. When we become citizens, USA will have more intelligent people and more tax dollars. Yet we have been the scapegoat every time there's a crisis. On the other hand, many of the uneducated illegal immigrants get a lot more positive media attention. Most of them do not pay taxes, yet they can still receive their green cards, sometimes much faster than we do.

As I mentioned before the problem with US is it's become too bipolar. The smart get everything: higher income and more ways to evade taxes. The dumb (due to bad education) become poorer (relatively) and are manipulated by the smart and the media into blaming somebody else for their (theirs, and the policy maker's) own fault. The system is not working well. It's the problem of your president and your congressmen, elected by your people.

Finally, as some people have already pointed out, don't forget that most of the Americans were immigrants or offsprings of immigrants.

Rajan

February 9, 2009 12:37 PM

It's good that senators have started thinking about this important issue. A country has to protect its own citizens by any means, and do not have to preach democracy and freedom at their expense. America has a lot of poor people and poverty to deal with. Let's keep aside big and stupid (for the given state) ideas like 'spreading democracy' and 'free trade'. Let's start feeding our own poor souls! Once we are all well off, then let's start spreading democracy.

Paul

February 9, 2009 01:10 PM

That's painting with a pretty broad brush both ways. I've met plenty of morons with 15 masters degrees from a bunch of Indian universities that I've never heard of, along with a lot of very smart, hard working ones of course and people are people. Although to be fair they're generally quite a bit more disciplined than their American bred college educated dufuss counterparts but I digress. In any event generally speaking US unis turn out pretty decent graduates but as is true everywhere else in the world wealth and class have a tendency to trump merit on a pretty regular basis i.e. see a guy named W. from Texas.

My problem with H1Bs isn't that they're not American workers, it's that the whole idea undercuts the idea of a free labor market and the price rationing mechanism of a market based economy. Saying that they can't find an American to do such and such a job is only half correct. It's omitting at such and such a wage, which means that they're trying to underpay the job and being rebuffed by the labor market. Which in a free market should put upward pressure on the wage, attracting more people to train and compete for those jobs until supply and demand are in equilibrium. I don't care that the person competing for it is Indian, Chinese, Martian, or American but what I don't buy is that the labor dept is doing a knockdown job ensuring the proper equilibrium price.

Foreign Student

February 9, 2009 01:16 PM

H1B visa holders pay taxes too. What do they get back? Nothing, except watching their money going to bail out greedy corporations who brainwashed the American public into digging themselves into holes they can't climb out of.

Outsourcing and the H1B system ensure that good labor comes at a good price. If outsourcing was scrapped, you would end up having to pay 5$ to make a tech support call to a "toll free" number. If the H1 program was scrapped, you would see prices of everything increase because of the overhead.

The current economic diarrhea has nothing to do with the H1B system or outsourcing. A bunch of corporations gave the American public buying power they didn't deserve and both sides knew it.

Don't be Stupid

February 9, 2009 01:21 PM

It is just political move that won't help economy a bit but only make the senator look good in front of stupid voters.

How could it help anything? Simple math-- 21,800 visa application in the past 6 years, assuming that every application was approved (which is very unlikely as AP article mentioned), only 3,633 jobs handed over to H1B each year

Do you really think the 3,500 jobs are that significant comparing the total banking workforce? Come on, do something real, do not try to fool us and yourself, Mr. Senator!!!

John

February 9, 2009 02:12 PM

America's loss, Canada's gain! Short sighted policies such as Grassley's that please the electorate but in the long run will have US educated talent, some from some of the prestigious institutions, Harvard, MIT, Columbia, Stanford to name a few looking to where their talent is appreciated and acknowledged without having to combat nativist and xenophobic views:
http://www.albertacanada.com/h1b

dancing w/wolves

February 9, 2009 02:15 PM

Give the native Indian jobs, coz they are the real American. Red necks and HiB, L1B, J1s, get out of America!

URStupid

February 9, 2009 02:45 PM

As a non-Indian, non-IT, or non-finalcial H1B worker myself, I totally agree with what MeMyself wrote here. The stupid education system in this country has brought up stupid generations of American. I was astonished to found that my fellow american-educated engineers don't know how to calculate the wattage of a lamp, while this is a piece of cake for a middle-schooler in China.

-- When American kids celebrate their high school graduation like big, the Chinese/Indian kids spend time on advanced maths/chemistry/physics and laugh at those silly celebrations.

-- When American kids spend tons of time on all sorts of sports, Chinese/Indian kids are finding ways to solve difficult math problems.

-- Recently I heard my American coworker's son's school are trying to invent an easier way to teach kids to subtract with out borrowing. Come on! How much simpler can that be! Example like that will only make your kids stupider, Americans.

-- I dislike the Indian IT corporations abusing the H1B program. It's not the H1B program that needs to be banned. It is those bad companies what need to be banned.

To the end, how many of you guys here hold a Master or PhD degree with 4.0 GPA from a top 50 engineering school in the US? Those are most of the non-Indian H1B holders you are trying to ban. Think twice please.

Americans, go home too :)

February 9, 2009 03:29 PM

Okay, let´s stop the so called GLOBALIZATION and cease buying American products altogether. Develop your own economies. Also, we should prohibit American multinationals competing for resources in our countries too! Refuse their job offers and work for your own local companies. And also withdraw your troops from Iraq and let them alone there :)

Praneeth Patlola

February 9, 2009 03:37 PM

H1B immigrants are less than 0.57% of the US population.
You will get the statistics here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7625919/US-Immigrants-Statistics-2007

Does this small % really make such a huge difference and a great concern to the whole nation?

Olga

February 9, 2009 03:46 PM

I think 65,000 H-1B visa will hardly make or break employment opportunities for most people. Firms reserve these jobs for highly specialized professionals that can not be filled otherwise. It is a very costly and time consuming process and if the firm could find a resident instead it would gladly do it.

H1B Worker

February 9, 2009 04:04 PM

You dumb Americans, I have your job because the person before me (an american) was wasting most of his time on facebook, MSN, lunches, post lunch jogs, unnecessary chats about southpark and his home in the meetings and dumb asses felicitating the senators are exactly the people that I am talking about.
I usually dont see love for job in American people, they have much more interest in arguing, self propelling, upmanship and mindless discussion.
I am just coming from a 3 hour meeting that again had no resolution because people "felt" in such a way. damn it. Love your job more than your schools football team and you will have it forever.

DL

February 9, 2009 04:11 PM

Guys do you know what economic protectionism means in an open economy, or better yet, why do we even have an exchange of goods, services, talent, etc in the first place? The answer is: it improves welfare of the society as a whole. Everyone benefits from this one way or another. If you are still confused please go read microeconomic 101 about competitive advantage.
To put it simple, do you know how much Walmart will charge you for basic goods or services if everything is made in USA? Do you know how far your meager $40K salary will go under that scenario? I'm afraid not very far...
Guys we are in a global economy and YOU, along with everyone else, benefit from it day in and day out! If US companies stop hiring foreign workers, they have to pay much more to hire Americans and all the cost will be passed on to consumers. Or rather, they will shut down the US factories and open up a new one in India, China, or Vietnam at a much lower cost. Or, those companies simply cannot survive and they will fire everyone if they fail. Who will pay the cost eventually?
Wake up folks. Just like someone said, if you want a job, please study hard and make yourself more competitive instead of wasting all your college years on frat parties.

abc

February 9, 2009 04:13 PM

"America belongs to Americans" ???

Didn't you are the same guys without dignity have been living on debt financed by the so-called third world Asian countries. The prosperity that people witness in America is nothing but a grand illusion of insurmountable debt which would need to be paid back sooner or later.
And now government is coming up with bailout plan after bailout plan (provided some country is going to foot the bill finance this debt)...which sooner will dilute and wipe out the value of dollar, and the dollar based assets in America would soon be worth nothing.
Add to it the looming Medicare and SocialSecurity costs for the baby boomer generation which needs to be paid out continuously for generations to come.
So the future is nothing but gloomy for Americans. Amidst of all this, Americans wants to practice protectionism in jobs and trade, which will further severely hamper their competitiveness, and drive out/away the talent to other greener pastures like Europe/Asia.

Future GC

February 9, 2009 04:14 PM

OBSOLETE WHINERS!!!! USA will pay heavily price in long term for this type restriction. Without H1-B path to green cards, talented STEM pros will stay in home countries and jobs will come to us. You are only getting older but we are young and getting smarter. Listen obsolete ones, who will pay the tax monies for your knee replacements and alzeimers treatment when we are gone? NO ONE!!!

beedi

February 9, 2009 04:24 PM

average iq of indian h1b worker in america = 146
average iq of indian h1b worker in america + us worker = 112
therefore, average iq of us worker = 78


'nuff said.

amit

February 9, 2009 04:33 PM

Those idiots can seperate outsource and H1B.

At least H1 keep jobs in America. If I am CEO and my company aren't allowed to hire foreigners, I would choose to outsource to Indian than hiring Americans.

H1 holders pay tax, SSN and medical care. But most of them dont get benefit from that.

Thanks to two idiot senators, company will outsource more jobs overseas. And idiot Americans will lose more jobs. What a life.

karlan

February 9, 2009 05:10 PM

If I am a boss of a IT company, I am considering outsourcing part of the company to a cheap labor counties. Profit is always the aim a boss should pursuit not the politics.

Chuck Gaffney

February 9, 2009 05:21 PM

You said it Vee. Though I can care less about a job now that I own my own business and life...for those who still want to throw their life into IT work for someone else, it would be good to see that $30K+ Computer Science degree do more than just collect dust.

Appletree

February 9, 2009 05:24 PM

I have read a few of the comments. Angry Americans looking for a way out of the crisis. Here is what they are missing.

- Among the H1 visa people, a lot of them are people with advanced degrees, in science and technology. 60% of the graduate students in US are foreigners, did you know that? When you look at only the PhD student percentage the ratio is even higher. Now you are telling me that because of the visa quotas, let's kick these people out, give the jobs to others. What do you think will happen? These people will go to Canada, or another country that will welcome them. And instead of working at a US company/ institution/ etc. they will come up with scientific innovations in a NON-US company/ university.. And US will have to buy this technology from another company.

Look at the number of professors in US universities. They are mostly non-US people. H1 visa and other visas allow bringing in the smart minds into US and this is what increases US competitive power among all other companies.

If you reduce quotas, smart companies will NOT stop looking for smart people outside the US. They will just take their business outside of US to avoid dealing with visa issues. This will hurt your US economy much more.

Overall, visa quotas, esp. quotas on skilled labor, is a bad idea. And if you cannot see it, go get some glasses.


S. Crewed

February 9, 2009 05:31 PM

Grassley's measure tries to address potential problems created by H-1B holders like R.B. Makwana's attempted destruction of data on Fannie Mae's computer system:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123333187833633709.html

If the script had executed, the cost to the U.S. would have been in the millions. That's a hell of a way to treat a country that gives you a job in a recession. And incidentally, Makwana's subsequent employer was Bank of America.
Then there was Biswomathan Pani, who tried to steal $1 billion in IP from Intel and bring it to AMD as his own work. http://www.computerworld.com/comments/node/9114592
These two cases alone raise serious red flags about the H-1B program.

DJ

February 9, 2009 05:59 PM

This is a complete BS. If these politicians think H1-B is eating away all the jobs and should be abolished why are H1-B holders paying so much taxes. Stop asking for money that is not yours.

Bottom Line

February 9, 2009 06:12 PM

The bottom line is that the prosperity United States of America has seen in the past is because of foreign workers. The numbers speak for itself, but the problem is that Average American Joe does not get it, US Govt get's it and so do the businesses. It is agreed that there is some need for more regulation, but a talk about closing the foreign skilled worker program is equal to suicide of American growth. An American citizen should be very thankful for the foreign workers for adding up to American economy and thus lifting the standard of living for them.

On the other side, this issue is an easy political target and there are millions of American people who are against a foreign worker programs, however, they are against it because they lack necessary information before making their opinions.

Why

February 9, 2009 06:13 PM

Why only H1B, why not ban all foreigners to be hired ?

Stop H1B and L1 Now

February 9, 2009 06:23 PM

Fact: H1B and L1 visa programs are highly abused. INS must investigate the H1B sponsoring Companies, esp. the numerous "cheap" Indian Consulting Firms.
Fact: There are a huge surplus of highly qualified Americans unemployed in the IT field.
Fact: Most of these big corporatons hire IT Contractors through other firms such as Accunture, EDS, Comsys, Indian Consulting Firms etc. who are mostly H1Bs and L1s. This in in-fact an abuse as the system. These corporations must REPORT H1Bs working for them DIRECTLY of INDIRECTLY!! I work for oneof these Corporations and I know this information!!
Fact: This law is an eye-wash. US must STOP H1B and L1 visa programs in the IT field immediately.

Thanks to Chcuk Grassley and Bernie Sanders.

Ash

February 9, 2009 06:33 PM

It seems to me there is quite a lot of tension between the Americans and Indians. Part of it looks like suspicion of strangers/new comers and part of it due to the lack of Indians to culturally adapt to America.

AK

February 9, 2009 06:39 PM

Mind it - TARP money that was given to bank's includes the tax that is paid by a H1-B/L1 candidate. It's not like H1-B person work's and take all money. Government and Americans are benefiting because of H1-B workers tax amount. Why are people against H1-B when there is a issue and not when everything was fine and when you every American was partying out?

JC

February 9, 2009 06:41 PM

In my opinion, America need H1B, but not those Indian H1B. Most non-indian H1B have advanced degree from American school and are top student from top school in their own country. Indian H1B, on the other hand, are mostly brought to American by Indian consulting company. A lot of them use faked resume and faked documents to get their visa. The purpose of most Indian H1B are not to make American company more competent, but to do on site oursourcing for Indian consulting company. They abused H1B visa and L visa. As a result, those really talent foreigners cannot stay because Indian used all available visa quote. To get an H1B visa is not the end of the story yet. Once an Indian come to America, you will find hundreds of his relatives moved to America in a few years.

123xyz

February 9, 2009 06:53 PM

H1-B visas stifle innovation and should be banned. Without imported workers, businesses are forced to innovate and becine more efficient,

Buy American

February 9, 2009 07:06 PM

I work with some very bright developers from India and other countries. There is a time and a place for the guest worker program. When the US is laying off Millions of workers, there is absolutely no need for bringing in any guest workers. While there are plenty of American workers who get college degrees and can't tie their shoes, there is also plenty of American workers who get college degrees that can and do compete with any worker the world over. Common sense would tell you that when millions of workers are looking for jobs, there is no reason to allow any outsourcing company or other company to bring in guest workers. To be sure, the guest worker program is not a right. The guest worker program is only to augment workers when US companies can't find workers.

Sarab Mann

February 9, 2009 07:08 PM

Has anyone considers why USA is a "800 pounds Guerrilla in IT/computers industry"? US has best universities, one of the best financial systems and brightest minds but at the end, H1B holders burn the midnight oil.The IT industry is so fast paced that you can't train a person in specific skill set in short timespan.
Some of the advanced countries tried to replicate the H1B system, for example Britian and Germany but failed.Sometimes,I also feel insecure about loosing my job to H1B holder who stays late and charge less but this is called competition.US is most competitive in the world.This the tough time, where we have to believe in ourselves.Remember , this is the same country which providing prosperity and hope to the people around the world time after time.So, be magnanimous and see the bigger picture!!
Thanks,
S.Mann

Sarab Mann

February 9, 2009 07:19 PM

AJ where you get this stat. I think it is not right!
Thanks,
S Mann

Vee

February 9, 2009 07:21 PM

OK, YOU INDIAN IDIOTS, HOW WILL YOU FEEL IF THE BANGLADESHI'S COME AND TAKE YOUR JOBS, WILL YOU KEEP QUITE, OH YOU DONT EVEN KEEP QUITE EVEN IF A NORTH INDIAN COME TO MUMBAI FOR JOBS, SEE THE SITUATION IN MUMBAI TODAY, ALL THE NORTH INDIANS ARE BEGIN DRIVEN AWAY, YOUR VERY OWN COUNTRY MEN, OH WHAT A SHAME.

SS

February 9, 2009 07:37 PM

It surprises me as to how 4th/5th generation immigrants themselves start opposing immigration to the USA. Go back and check your familiy tree - hopefully you guys can figure out where you came from.

I have been working on an H1B and as a person who has worked in India and USA, I know why employers prefer H1Bs - they are simply more qualified and hard working. Why is that so hard to understand? Also how about all the illegal immigrants who cross Mexican border and enter US? Like some people have rightly pointed out, they are the ones who truly drain this economy without paying taxes. H1Bs pay more taxes and Social Scurity than any American and we do not get any benefits. Most of us will leave before we become citizens and start enjoying the benefits. So ultimately that tax money is a tip to the government.

Also the filed H1s over 6 years in the financial sector as has been mentioned in the article is nothing. 23K - Thats just 1/3rd of the yearly quota for H1B. I dont know why that figure has been touted so much.

If Americans are getting laid off inspite of H1Bs getting paid more than the minimum wages, then it's probably due to the lack of intelligence and qualification.

Mike

February 9, 2009 08:05 PM

Watch CNN right now to understand what's going wrong with economy from the President's mouth.
Belv me, I dont know what he is going to say.. lets watch that for next 1 hr and try to understand facts. I dont belv its foreign workers.. I am saying this at 8:06 PM.. Lets hear..

Froilan Malit

February 9, 2009 08:21 PM

Keep this article!

AJ

February 9, 2009 09:37 PM

Enough for xenophobia! Stop whining and start to face it! We are the richest, most highly educated and most successful ethnic group in US because we are intelligent; have best education, we work hard; have work ethics and master advanced technologies and knowhow. It may appear that we hire our own clans. That is simply because they happen to better education. Remember that we pay most taxes without ever enjoying any unemployment allowance or bailout etc. JaiHind.

Fed Up!

February 9, 2009 09:56 PM

315,000 L1 plus 85,000 H1 "temporary NON-IMMIGRANT" visas annually - not counting exemptions as universities, "research institutions", "non-profits" and others are exempt from H1-B quotas. This is hardly trivial.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-visas_1.html

H1/L1 are "temporary NON-IMMIGRANT" visas. Thus, holders of these visas are NOT "immigrants". Do holders of TEMPORARY tourist/visitor visas now qualify for the title of "immigrant" too? H1B is supposed to fill "skills shortages" on a TEMPORARY basis. O-1 (Outstanding) visas are designed to bring the "best and brightest" to Americas shores-O-1 visas have no quota.

I am sick and tired of arrogant racist foreigners with a sense of entitlement to US immigration. You spent $$$ to acquire a US education and now you are entitled to US jobs and US residency? American families who spend $$$ on US education are entitled to nothing right?

Enough of your whining!

Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said; "Our skilled wages are higher than anywhere in the world," he said. "If we open up a significant window for skilled workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end the concentration of income."

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/

Joseph T

February 9, 2009 10:00 PM

A promising start. GOD BLESS Senators Grassley and Sanders! A small step for man, but a large step for the dignity of the American worker.

Rajesh Valluri

February 9, 2009 10:01 PM

Oh well, if it comes to it, so be it. Let the Americans ban immigrants( especially from India) coming and working in the US. We in India have an election coming up, and our leaders may just ban the American companies from selling their products in India. Hey, we don't need Coco colas, KFCs and Pepsis draining out the pockets of our middle class Indians. Even if the government doesn't ban it, the local nationalist groups will make it a point to make it extremely difficult for a bottle of Coke to be sold in India. Lets just restrict everything to our borders and see how things go.

Its freaking disgusting how the Americans shrink at the first sign of trouble and redact on all their free market agenda and what not. They are the ones that forced India to open its market to American products and services companies and now they just want to shut their own doors on our people. Hypocrisy at its defining best.

An_H1B_worker

February 9, 2009 10:09 PM

H1B workers also pay taxes! Not just Americans!

Another_H1B_worker

February 9, 2009 10:12 PM

Companies have to pay thousands of dollars to file an H1B petition. If they can't find enough qualified Americans, why would they ever want to spend this extra money?! it is not like American companies dislike American workers by default.

Vejay Rajar

February 9, 2009 10:37 PM

We Indians are smarter than all Americans, we will dominate the world. You all red necks are so stupid, we already earn enough of your money from the "year 2000 scam", and we already got enough H1Bs in these years (over 1 millions)

hahahaha!!!!!

A True Indian

February 9, 2009 10:41 PM

@VEE, JC, and ALL

I agree with whatever you commented so far guys, Yes, you are the gods to judge, because this is your own country. You have right to say whatever you want. Just try to Answer yourself for the below questions before comment on anybody.

1. The World knows that USA is doing business by their Universities. Think once, what if F1 Students are not coming, what would be the situation of USA?

2. US Fate is depends upon the President of the country, Think who elected their president? are not they CITIZENS? Obviously not H1B's and L1s. How messy the US became after choosing a good (at least for you) President...?

3. Why US is offering 65,000+20,000 H1B every year, They can cancel the offer. what do you think US can't survive without aliens?

4. Think once, what if all Indian employees laid off and went back to India? What would be the US economy?

5. Please don't make any comments on anybody, It hurts, Its all by our fate and luck, which says where we are and what we are. We are all humans.

Thanks,
A True Indian

Ria

February 9, 2009 10:45 PM

To SVEngineer and MeMyself: You both are walking contradictions. Why don’t you read your previous posts before you post another?? Both of you blast your mouths as you are God sent and Heaven would fall if you had not come to “rescue” America…PLEASE!!! (Eye roll) Let me also point out that you both have interestingly changed your status from H1B visas to be citizens of the US. You also say that the US education is “stupid”, yet but oh look…you are the first to run to this country to pursue a higher education. Hmmm…sounds pretty hypocritical to me??

Max

February 9, 2009 10:46 PM

What a bunch of jokers?
This is perfect now they dont have to hire H1B or an american they can just offshore all the work. Just perfect.
Hope the senators have the brains to figure that out or maybe that is the idea behind the bill to make more offshoring happen. TARP may not be enough for the banks maybe every american needs to be laid off or become their slaves before these senators do something.
Can these genius senators explain to me why the tax payers need to bailout these banks with our money when these banks are sending hundreds of millions of dollars worth of projects abroad. Example Citibank they took TARP money and very next week signed a huge contract with an indian company. Here I am strugging to run a small business trying to get any project. The irony is mesmerizing. Maybe as citizens we should all just accept we dont have a future in this country and migrate abroad. How are the opportunities in India folks maybe I will relocate and start a business there. Oh wait they dont let americans in on work visa. Maybe I will start cutting the grass or start driving a taxi in USA. Wait immigrants have taken that too. How abt McDonalds or Burger King or Walmart? Hey we still got jobs in this country at 7dollars per hour is there a better way to fulfill the american dream.
Folks make sure your kids dont end up in math or science field. This is the worst career they can actually have as skilled laborers in this country. Their competition is hundreds of millions of laborers from india and china and I will bet you atleast million of them are smarter than ur kid. Instead of making ur kids a loser in life send them into anything which cannot be offshored like physical interaction fields. Hair cuttery, lawyers, contruction etc.
Elected leaders please resign you dont deserve to be running this country anymore than the ceo's of the banks. They are running the banks into the ground and you are running the country into the ground. Sooner rather than later you will achieve it. Obviously you will blame it on someone else.

Ria

February 9, 2009 10:47 PM

To SVEngineer and MeMyself: You both are walking contradictions. Why don’t you read your previous posts before you post another?? Both of you blast your mouths as you are God sent and Heaven would fall if you had not come to “rescue” America…PLEASE!!! (Eye roll) Let me also point out that you both have interestingly changed your status from H1B visas to be citizens of the US. You also say that the US education is “stupid”, yet but oh look…you are the first to run to this country to pursue a higher education. Hmmm…sounds pretty hypocritical to me??

worked up

February 9, 2009 10:50 PM

Some companies are letting workers in the US go, then telling them if they want a job they can go to China or India (one way trip). So where does it make since with the H1Bs?

I think this whole H1 thing is a Microsoft thing so they can bill the software and use cheap labor to get the deal done. There is no honor here. This is not a two way street. Big companies only care about numbers. They don't care about the worker bees. Unions only care about their fees and the amount of fees they collect. They are no good either.

I used to think that if you worked hard for your job. It would work. Only works if you are your own business.

Save every penny don't spend a dime.

Martin

February 9, 2009 10:58 PM

Thank you thank you! Stop giving our jobs to H1. We spend fortune for our education while H1's pay only fraction in their countries. They have the advantage that we don't! How will I pay my $80 000 student loan when my job was taken by H1?

Average Joe

February 9, 2009 11:05 PM

Lets deport all Asians, then we will have enough jobs for Americans.

Tony

February 9, 2009 11:16 PM

Americans should understand: one of the most important reasons that America is still the most developed country in the world is that she has the most scientists and engineers from other countries.

Ban H1-B? Why not simply let all the H1-B holders and international students go back to their home country? Yes, this will leave some openings in the market. But very soon, there will be no job at all.

Americans, do you think only you are born to enjoy life, to have parties, and finally to get a job? The reason you still can do this is because countless low-paid H1-B visa holders are working more than 12 hours a day in this country for you.

H1Bworker

February 9, 2009 11:37 PM

I am prepared to go to that place that gives me highest reward for my contribution. I 've been in US as it has been undoubtedly the best market(as far as my needs are considered), best people(culturally sensitive). If I face the hardest constraint in this market, I'll have to move to the next best market that's available to me. Maybe that's India, UK or Australia.

I believed USA was free market; rewards merit and talent. Reservations based on caste, creed, color, race , state/location are not new to me. I've been through such reservation and quota systems for first 22 years of my life. If US wants to move in such direction and great leaders, citizens of this nation believe that this is the right direction, probably it is. Perception is reality :) Who knows?

I've been working here on and off since a decade; all those citizens/Americans out here-- possibly your great grandfathers migrated here couple of hundreds years ago in search of better lives. They were allowed to settle down here by natives. People have been sensitive to cultures, respected one another, rewarded talents, encouraged innovation. Those are the fundamentals which US was built upon and turned out to be one of the best places to live for generations to come..

Free markets, where minds are without fear, progress faster and create better lives.America is the living example.Human capital moves to maintain reward vs talent equilibrium. Actions which tilt this equilibrium do produce reactions which adversely affect progression.

Humanitarian

February 9, 2009 11:40 PM

Hey Guys,
I donot see the main reason why H1 B holders are being blamed.
Why cannot anyone think about china, when all the manufacturing jobs left to china, and the essential commodiites are manufactured in china.
Majority of the People have lost jobs who were working for 15-20 years beacause they were in Manufacturing or construction, and due to the greediness for CEO's and Wall Streets, we are finding ourselves in this mess.
Why didnot any one question when President Bush spent $750-$800 billion dollars in Iraq War,
why didnot any one punish and raise questions when CEO's took bonus till last year when they knew that there companies where in Mess.
We should responsibile of today's mess, as we were leisure enough to live my country to lobbyist in washington.

A management guru

February 10, 2009 12:21 AM

It is agreed that there are lot of loopholes in the Visa programs itself. You cannot just blame the foreigners who go to US for opportunities. Remember lot of big organizations were built by the Asians and many of those by migrants from India. The abuse of the H1-B program is not new. Greed from all over the world has got into the mess. The very basic cause of American citizens lose their jobs is that the education system - the school years are flawed. Protectionism is there from the school level itself. In countries like India, fierce competition keeps individuals excelling. Few cases of laying off american workers and hiring H1-Bs are not to be generalized. I know few americans who still enjoy the work in the organization and lot of H1-B workers were asked to go. Frankly America cannot survive by itself.

USA is no more a super power.

R ob

February 10, 2009 12:22 AM

Go to the Yahoo groups and pick any certification exam and you will find Indians cheating on them.

Why can't Americans open their eyes and see all our wealth is being transferred to other countries.

Anonymous

February 10, 2009 12:25 AM

I'd like to say this sounds great, but there is one thing. If American Workers were more competitive and engaged in continual training and updating their resumes they probably all wouldn't be displaced. Face it, if I could get one Indian person who is willing to work 10X harder, at a lower cost and is willing to do more to succeed than an American Worker who you would you logically pick? Sure we should keep some jobs here (most defiantly), but give a reason for companies to KEEP YOU and take all those training opportunities and continually improve yourself.

UnKnown

February 10, 2009 12:35 AM

haha, no need to read any further. Scroll up and read all the comments by our fellow americans and indians.
H1B is not evil. Outsourcing is the one of the reason of job loss. I know my fellow H1B peer who got laidoff coz her job got redundant and the same work is outsourced to malaysia.

Some redundant facts:

H1B workers in US are paid equivalent to Americans for same job.

H1b/L1 workers (contractors) working for a client hired by an American firm work for less than the american person doing the same job.

H1B guys pay taxes but never get any benefits.

Americans are equally intelligent and smart than any other indian. My co-workers are one of the best i have ever worked with. Just those guys are lesser in number comparatively. (not enough Americans pursuing MS/PhDs)

Peace...this recession is due to lousy bankers not IT professionals.

KP

February 10, 2009 01:37 AM

The history repeats itself. In the days of dot com bubble burst, after similar legislator's crusades against H1Bs, the H1B cap was cut by 50%. Also, the Department of Labor has pretty much put all EB Green Cards on freeze for many years and rejected many pending EB GC petitions. As the result, many skilled workers had to leave US ( woo-hoo!), and many choose not to come to US in the first place (yay!), working instead for outsourcing companies that started to grow in their home countries.

The outsourcing started to pick up in 2004 but was facing 2 problems - there was little expertise back then on how to do outsourcing for western businesses efficiently and there was no big need for corporations to outsource aggressively, as the economy in US has started to improve in 2004. Now, 5 years later the Asian folx have learned how to do the outsourcing jobs well ( recommended reading: "The world is flat") and corporations are now forced to really look into cost savings. You figure what will happen to the US jobs.

Yes, lets kick out more taxpaying and hard working H1Bs with their knowledge of US industries, skills and experience, personal and professional connections. Many of these expelled H1B workers (mostly former programmers) that I know, now run their own companies or manage outsourcing teams back home.

KP

February 10, 2009 01:38 AM

The history repeats itself. In the days of dot com bubble burst, after similar legislator's crusades against H1Bs, the H1B cap was cut by 50%. Also, the Department of Labor has pretty much put all EB Green Cards on freeze for many years and rejected many pending EB GC petitions. As the result, many skilled workers had to leave US ( woo-hoo!), and many choose not to come to US in the first place (yay!), working instead for outsourcing companies that started to grow in their home countries.

The outsourcing started to pick up in 2004 but was facing 2 problems - there was little expertise back then on how to do outsourcing for western businesses efficiently and there was no big need for corporations to outsource aggressively, as the economy in US has started to improve in 2004. Now, 5 years later the Asian folx have learned how to do the outsourcing jobs well ( recommended reading: "The world is flat") and corporations are now forced to really look into cost savings. You figure what will happen to the US jobs.

Yes, lets kick out more taxpaying and hard working H1Bs with their knowledge of US industries, skills and experience, personal and professional connections. Many of these expelled H1B workers (mostly former programmers) that I know, now run their own companies or manage outsourcing teams back home.

A software engineer

February 10, 2009 01:51 AM

My company just brought in 3 people from India and every month more and more come in replacing US developers. Bringing foreign workers to the U.S. needs to stop. Workers here on a work visa need to go home ASAP (we'd be doing their home countries a favor). Think about how many jobs would become available if our gov revoked their Visas???

Sunil

February 10, 2009 02:18 AM

The H-1B issue is actually insignificant. However, these issues will have huge impact on the US economy in the next 5 to 7 years.

Consider the following:
Over 98,000 student from India were granted F-1 student visas to US. Most of them are going to avail student loans in their respective countries so that they can get educated in US, get a job in the US, get some relevant experience, earn some money, pay off their loans etc. Many of these same students are going to study for their Phd's and become faculty in the US or soome cutting edge research in the US. The Net result of this is that the US economy benefits.

Such narrow minded people like Sen. Grassley (also known as the Raj Thakeray of the US) will ensure that in the next 2 to 3 years there will be trickle of students from India and other countries. Such jingoism in the US will definitely benefit countries like Australia, Canada, and Some Universities in Europe etc. which are more liberal as well as cheaper to study in.

Many US Universities will suffer within 2 to 3 years because of this racket of stopping H-1b to foreign workers and students. Mark my words....

aadesh

February 10, 2009 02:52 AM

Guys,

you really think replacing a highly skilled workers from the outside world with a bit less skilled american will turn on your economy to booom.

In longer run it gonna harm more....companies will suffer more....

Let the environment be competitive so as people are stretched to be effective and efficient...

Manfred Lange

February 10, 2009 03:03 AM

@Vee: you wrote "THE NEXT STEP IS TO TOTALLY BAN OUTSOURCING 'IT JOBS' TO OTHER COUNTRIES."

What about "The next step is to totally ban outsourcing the exploitation of natural resources to other countries"?

Same principle and one that would actually also help sustainability. Right?

Indian

February 10, 2009 03:24 AM

It seems Americans have a habit of looking at only one side of the story.
a) Terrorists attacked WTC. Oh is that so... what about thousands of people killed in Iraq, Bosnia, Afganisthan, Gaza (US supplies arms to Israel).
b) USA has a divine RIGHT to keep its Nuclear arsenal and nuke any country (Remember Japan). Any other country does not have even a right to develop civil nuclear technology.
c) USA had a +ve trade balance of $62.33 Billion in 2008 vis-a-vis India. You know how??? Companies like IBM, Coke, Pepsi, Accenture, GM, Ford can sell here in India. But Indians can not sell there skills in USA. Isn't it fair trade practice.

american guy

February 10, 2009 03:47 AM

more power to the american people. Stop the H1B visa program !!!!

Bobo

February 10, 2009 04:08 AM

Indian workers Lie and Cheat and suck major you know what to get what they want. It is sad. They are the most two faced people I have ever met. They back stab and talk behind their co-workers back. They also talk smack about US and Americans.

Oh BTW I am south asian american. So stop you comments on me being a racist. I have family in all over south asia including India.

S. Crewed

February 10, 2009 05:18 AM

Earlier there was a rhetorical question - "How can 85,000 H-1B visas possibly create the job losses we've been seeing?" The first dirty secret is it's not 85,000 visas - it's a "limit" of 85,000 visas annually that has never been adhered to, on a visa that is supposed to last for six years (but really lasts for seven and up with a recently implemented extension) and has numerous limit exemptions. New H-1B visas issued: 2001 - 201,079; 2002 - 103,584; 2003 - 105,314; 2004 - 130,497; 2005 - 116,927 (USCIS stats). That's already 657,401 and we're only through 2005! Tack on a reasonable estimate of 110,000/year more for 2006-2008 and the sum gets close to 1,000,000. Then factor in Dirty Secret #2: 7 out of the top 10 companies receiving H-1B visas are Indian offshore outsourcing companies - a large number of these visas are being used to facilitate offshore outsourcing of other business functions. Then we have Dirty Secret #3 - the H-1B visa is not the only visa used to bring in foreign labor and facilitate offshore outsourcing - the L-1 is becoming increasingly popular for this. There is comparatively little oversight or political pressure applied on the L-1 - USCIS doesn't even provide statistics except to periodically issue warnings about widespread misuse of L-1 visas! And finally we have Dirty Secret #4 - the U.S. government in collusion with U.S. business and political interests is increasing the foreign labor supply through other avenues - most notably the recent extension of the "practical training" F-1 visa from 12 to 29 months WITHOUT A REFERENDUM OR VOTE. Conclusion: the H-1B and related foreign labor visa programs (particularly the L-1 and F-1 as presently constituted) are major causative factors in U.S. unemployment.

Hawkins

February 10, 2009 06:07 AM

H1-B and J1 workers hoping for Greencard just dont believe it. It was a red herring in my experience. Co-inventor on 5 patents for a fortune 200 (what the heck - Becton Dickinson BDX) in under 3 years, company ditched me once $300 million turn over product divison protected for following 15 years, ditched before matching fund pension kicked in, and their lawyers trashed my green card application. Consequently had even had my multiple entry visitor visa cancelled, couldn't even return to sell my car, dont expect much!

KPG

February 10, 2009 06:09 AM

Terminating a work permit program only aims at one of the many symptoms that are affecting our global economy. All of us, wherever in the world we live, want below -

1. Secure job with a healthy pay check.
2. Investment options such as real estate, stocks that appreciate forever.
3. Unlimited supply of cheap products/items/goods with attractive discounts and credit.

It is impossible for any economy to support all of the above needs at any point in time. Hence, these cycles of growth and slump.

It is time to invest our time and money in the right areas such as education, energy etc. and ensure long term security of the global economy. We all have created a very complex interconnected economic system and protectionist measures would do no good.

just my penny

February 10, 2009 08:18 AM

"If india stops drinking pepsi and cola for ONE DAY, this country feel the thirst, not india. If every indian/chinese leave this country with their life savings and leave their homes behind as some of you wish, this country is a dead rat. SUN, INTEL founders are from india, No one is telling india invented IT, its a collective effort, america took the lead, but, future belongs to india, the day is not far..." this is where i stopped reading the comments.
What a crock. Esp the part about"SUN, INTEL founders are from india" and "If india stops drinking pepsi and cola for ONE DAY, this country feel the thirst, not india", This guys bloody delusional.

Stop H1B and L1 visa NOW

February 10, 2009 09:01 AM

I work for a large financial company and following are a few facts,
1) These large corporations hire IT contractors from consulting companies like Comsys, Accenture, EDS, etc etc and which in-turn get many folks from smaller "cheap" Indian Consulting companies. Almost all of these contractors are H1Bs amd L1s. This is in fact beating the system and these Coporations must report the number of H1Bs and L1s working for them DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY!!!
2) There are a very larg number of highly qualified AMericans unemployed in the IT field.
3) These H1B and L1 visa programs are highly abused. This coming April, again we will see numerous Companies applying for H1B visas on "fake" requirements. H1B lawyers are equally corrupt as well.
4) INS must investigate the abuse of the H1B and L1 visa programs
5) Thanks to Senator Chuck Grassley and Bernie Sanders. But, this bill does't go far enough at all.
6) It is time to STOP the H1b and L1 visa programs NOW

Stephen

February 10, 2009 09:01 AM

For 18 years, the H1B and EB greencard programs have worked in tandem to destroy American careers. You see, in most cases, there is no requirement that employers first look for American workers before hiring foreign workers on H1B visas. Furthermore, Dept. of Labor rules allow most employers to replace Americans with lower-wage H1B workers at will, even if the Americans are performing well in their jobs.

There is a requirement that employers try to recruit Americans before sponsoring a foreign worker for an employment based greencard. Of course, employers routinely game the system by using fake job ads and bad faith interviews of American job applicants in order to get around this requirement.

You see, many of the advertised open positions are not really open at all. The positions are currently filled by H1B visas holders and the job ads and interview processes are a total scam. Any Americans who apply will be summarily rejected. In these cases, the company or recruiter will only give some vague reason for the rejection, such as the applicant *didn’t fit the company culture*, etc.

Once the foreign workers get their greencards, they become legal permanent residents. They then often move into management, where they quite often discriminate against American workers. I’ve seen it happen with Indians, Chinese, and Pakistanis. This is a vicious cycle, and it must be stopped. The best way to stop it is to shut down both the H1B visa program and the EB green card program.

LJ

February 10, 2009 09:32 AM

Very Basic, a common sense a 5 yr old would have. We have soooo many unemployed here in our home, then WHY need more from off shore?
My suggestion to Obama was toput a FREEZE ON NEW H1 from foreign countries for 5 yrs and provide jobs to people here in US. If there is any left over or need anything then go out. The politicians are still making a big mistake by doing complicated strings attached to this bill. There are already many people will all and any skills are available here then why need more from outside. Send a letter to your local congressman and senator to STOP this.
God Bless America!!!

RP

February 10, 2009 09:49 AM

Well, many of you took a stab at H1B Program.

What they need to do is not banning H1B, fix the loop holes in H1B System, some of the companies are taking advantage of the system, let’s find them and streamline the process

By Banning H1B program you are encouraging outsourcing, either lot of companies move their headquarters to other countries find another means of outsourcing

You forgot the important thing with sub- prime mess, lot of H1B folks bought houses, imagine if all of them leaving the houses just like that going back…. It’s not going to solve the problem rather it will worsen the market.

I guess the best thing is to stop outsourcing, H1B is not a problem, if they stop outsourcing we will have plenty of jobs.

BTW H1B folks are not cheap, assume comsys taking $100 per hour and paying $70 to h1b employee company then actual employee getting $50 per hour, that’s not cheap

What we need to do is to stop outsourcing

john

February 10, 2009 09:58 AM

The trouble with H1b is not just a bunch of foreigner stealing job but also the quality. Truly, hardly you can find a german, briton, french, japanese or another skiller IT worker but mainly hindues cheap-laborer.

Paula

February 10, 2009 10:19 AM

We talk about morals, discrimination and free trade, but as soon as we are faced with a tough decision, our system of values walks out the door.

Having an open and inviting America is what made this country great. An America where the best candidate is the one chosen for the position without consideration to race, sex or national origin.

Mediocre immigration proceedures block America from hiring the best minds in the world who are going to other countries and developing better and more competitive companies.

In order for America to lead once again we must leave our 17th century ideals behind and embrace a culture of knowledge more advance than the one we have been able to produce in our own schools.

Satyajeet Patwardhan

February 10, 2009 10:21 AM

I am an indian working in NYC. I don't see any problem with this decesion. Every country is responsible for its own people and then others. Every country has full rights to think about their own people and make their future safe ! The case of US is bit different since there are very few americans who are native of this place ! almost 99% originally belong to some other country ! so it makes it little complicated.. but still, if this bill against H1B is passed, i don't think thats wrong in at all ! it is just a macro version of thinking about your family before you think about your neighbors !!

Foreign worker

February 10, 2009 11:09 AM

Let me ask some fellow Americans out here.. do you want to build an infrastructure & system that fails like Ford and GM cars? How many H-1B's and L-1's are building cars in these plants in Detroit. Fear, Fear and fear of competition. That's all I can see. C'mon guys its a global economy, work in any part of the world you can, serve the society and make a good living is all we preach. We aren't here to take your jobs, but we definitely bring in a lot of experience and quality.
Work hard, learn more and stay competitive instead of cribbing about foriegn workers. Think of americans working on A-1 visas in China & Indian in the next decade. Sounds impossible? Just wait and watch. And what's wrong about it?

Ok, so net net.. be a sport and keep in mind that getting rid of H-1B's and L-1 foriegn workers aren't going to bring all uneducated people in US to work the next day, as most of the foreign workers hold only highly skilled jobs. Think about it.

And by the way more than 45% of H-1B workers pay huge amounts of money to your education system. That's the only American pillar that is standing strong and bringing in hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign money on an annualized basis. You guys wanna kill that too?...

Assuming all foreign workers are let go from this country, what kind of impact would it have on your housing and consumer market? Give a deep thought.

Lastly, I agree that fair competition needs to be in place. Just like an American can't favor a fellow citizen just b'cos he is an American and knows nothing about the job, foreign workers must not do it either. Its a free and fair world and let's keep it that way. Hope this helps.

deepak

February 10, 2009 11:34 AM

I think many of these h1-b's are coming with fake resumes. I think many graduated with a third division which is 33 percent to 50 Percent convertet to gpa of a 2.00 and lying about their academic qualifications and on top of that they make up false experiences - fake jobs etc. I belive that is true.
H1-b is american worker replacement job program.

American desi

February 10, 2009 11:40 AM

Stephen: What's the highest educational qualification you have? Competitiveness doesn't even seem close to you. OMG! There is so much fear around H-1B's and L-1B's in this country.

I never thought visa holders had so much of an impact on American economy, but now I certainly do. May be American's need to take a deeper look at how much they earn vs. how much they spend. Throwing foreign workers won't solve the credit crisis, will not at all solve the housing problem, and lastly will hurt an american firm's competitive standing. I don't mind hiring an H-1B visa holder if he knows his stuff better than a fellow american, who knows no shit but talks like a king.

learn to face reality people.. we are americans but there are better and more qualified people out there.The world if full of learned people who are not americans. We ain't the smartest.

sam

February 10, 2009 11:58 AM

Like off-shoring, hiring H1B's instead of Americans is unpatriotic.

MeMyself

February 10, 2009 12:44 PM

To Ria:

Are you able to read English at all? Can't you tell SVEngineer was sarcastic in his/her first post? So you think s/he's one of the H1-B's? ha ha ha. You can't even understand plain English.

Where did I say I'm on H1-B or I'm a citizen? FYI, I was on H1-B and now I hold green card, and I may or may not become a citizen depending on the direction of this country goes. I have plenty of other choices, much more than you who doesn't even understand your mother language. I would love to see US go into the right direction. If I become a citizen I'll cast my vote to support my belief.

When did I imply that I'm here to "rescue" USA? I merely mentioned that I added value to this country -- if not, why did the top university give me scholarship and why did US employers pay me much more than average salary of Americans? Because they knew I'd add more value than my salary, and this is what capitalist about.

tilly

February 10, 2009 01:14 PM

A political backlash is coming. Companies and others need to pay attention because it's going to get nasty as this Depression continues.

Zak

February 10, 2009 01:16 PM

In a world where there are 'finite' resources it only makes sense that every country will look after it's own interests....Every other country has 'protectionistic' trade laws--and rightly so. The US should have similar laws protecting it's 'means of production' (since it seems to be losing this at a record pace). If the US doesn't return to producing and selling goods (ala a trade surplus) then we'll end up poorer than we are now. It's just unfortunate that our representatives have sold us out so that big US businesses can outsource it's labor and send those products back to the US (while making a larger profit for themselves). Wake up America. Stimulus bills won't change our trade laws--they're only prelonging the inevitable!

Nirav Mehta

February 10, 2009 01:31 PM

Those against immegrant workers on H1B visas, read this article on BW website.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2009/tc2009029_333899.htm

Bob

February 10, 2009 01:32 PM

Ok. If we "hate" (follow me here, I don't mean hate) Indian workers for taking our jobs, and they "hate" us for being stupid, fat and lazy, aren't we all kind of the same. It is not a pretty picture. I know and work with numerous peopl here from India and they are plesant and terrific worker. Many of them are brilliant. I also work with plenty that can't find their asses with both hands. I'd say the mix is that of EVERY type of workers I have encountered. To paint either group (US or India) with a broad stroke of this hateful paintbrush is wrong. US workers - it is your companies that are doing this to you in pursuit of the bottom line. Indian workers - We are not all fat, dumb and stupid. I have a 148 IQ. So shame on you too!

Swazi

February 10, 2009 01:44 PM

The article might incite American sentiments but does little to understand an employer's perspective on hiring H1-B workers. Moreso the title really would hold true when we look into our household and not find any non-american products. Its hypocritical if we find it convenient to buy Chinese goods just because they are cheap but hate H1-Bs even though they bring their expertise. We need to accept the fact that Americans are producing far lesser Science/Engineering graduates than required to keep our economy afloat. And if H1-Bs fill that gap, its for good. And the larger controversy about outsourcing is better left behind as the decision companies face is whether to employ cost-cutting measures (outsourcing is the best measure) or be bankrupt hiring only American workers and producing goods only in the USA. Given a choice how many of us would willingly agree to pay $50 for an item that costs $5, how many of us would force our kid to major in Science/Maths and help the economy. If you are not one of them, you cannot help America by just spreading your emotions.

Mansa

February 10, 2009 01:45 PM

ACTION ACTION ACTION
First and foremost, just reading this forum confirms that Indians are very arrogant (and do not have people skills..no wonder they are good at technical matters, but very incompetent as managers)..this is your host country, yet you insult these americans..call them stupid, lazy, etc. Mexicans come here on work visas, they don't insult americans, chinese don't insult americans, yet you indians think u are so much better than everyone else..is it a wonder that people are turning against you? You need to humble yourselves..if u are so good, why is your country such a mess? Were it not for the US, India's economy would be deeply entrenched 3rd world..at least china can exist without the US..yet i don't see chinese here insulting others..humble yourself indian man, you are not as good as you like to think you are.
Second, to all who have been adversely affected by this Indian scamming, this forum falls on deaf ears...unless the head of DOJ or head of DOL or some senator with power is reading this, we are just preaching to the choir.
Do what I did, last night I wrote my 2 senators, 4 agencies in the Department of Labor; 2 agencies in the Department of Justice...I highlighted my past experiences, as well as referenced this forum -- hopefully if they read some these rants, then they can truly see how these Indians despise americans. If someone has media contacts, please forward a copy of this discussion..i'd really like to see the public's (read American's reaction) when they see Indians call them "stupid, lazy, etc"..then we'll see how welcome these arrogant people are in the work-place.
I urge you all to do the same, write your senators, congressmen, department of labor, department of justice, the media..let's get some focus on this, and hopefully take from these undeserving arrogant people what others should have. And note, it is only the Indian H1-Bs and their hiring managers who seem to be the biggest culprit.

Mansa

February 10, 2009 01:55 PM

Another Option:
I am not a lawyer..but I do know there is something called a Class ACtion Law Suit..such a lawsuit is more or less a collective suit filed by a group of people who have all been adversely affected by one or more distinct entities.
IN this case, the affected would be the American IT worker, and the guilty party would be: the H1-B visas granted to Indians, the outsourced jobs sent to India, the Indian outsourcing firms, and the Indian managers at these Fortune 500 firms.
I have plenty of first hand experience of just what kind of nonsense is involved...I sat in an office and had to explain (at least try) to a woman who had worked 23 years for the same company (the only company she had ever worked for) why she was losing her job to some Indian in India...I could not say it was becasue the CIO (who was Indian) had made the decision to outsource to India...there are many other cases to which I could attest..and I have worked at the executive level (not as an executive, but working with the executives)..so i know the thinking and reasoning that goes along with this.
Hence, if there is a lawyer out there who is reading this, and would like some testimony from me, I'll gladly provide it. Additionally, if there is such a lawyer, please explore the possibility of setting up a Class ACtion LawSuit against these Indians.

Aar Bee

February 10, 2009 02:40 PM

Vee,
If you want me to read your comments, stop typing in Caps. You look like an Idiot when you do so.

Aar Bee

February 10, 2009 02:43 PM

OK.
Lets do the math.

2.5 Million jobs lost recently.
There are only 85 thousand H1B visas available every year.

Even if you stop H1B program all together, it won't help the situation.

It is a political stunt. Anti immigrants are using down turn in economy to further their agenda.

abc

February 10, 2009 04:11 PM

All of you folks who think that US employers prefer H1B workers because they are cheaper, please wake up. I'm in H1B, and i'm paid equal to my US counterparts. I'm working here because my US employer (which is a Top 4 consulting firm in US) could not find US person with comparable skills here in US, and thus i was brought in.
The main advantage US employers have with H1B folks is that, in majority of IT consulting cases, after the project is over, they need not keep the H1B person employed. He can be sent back to Indian office, or moved to some other firm project. So it helps US employers to plan and control the workforce, and not have some US employee on their payroll for a long time. If instead they hired an US citizen for the job, they would be forced to keep that person employed and not easily discard him after the project is over. So this is the important disctinction here.
If you understand this, you wont be blabbering things like, H1Bs are cheap and that is why they steal jobs from US folks.

Brian

February 10, 2009 04:16 PM

Even being an Indian, I love USA as much as I love India. America is one the most friendliest place on earth.

Advice to all Indians:
Americans DO NOT usually complain about people of other race/origin. It is just that the country is in such a massive economic turmoil, they may appear to be little frustrated/stressed out. This will pass (as everyday cannot be a bad-day) and US will again be the same good-ol-place.

Advice to all Americans:
Indians come down to USA to succeed and be a part of the country. They also want to share their talents to make sure America stays #1 on this planet. Let me assure you, "ALL Indians love America". Personally I find Americans great people who take life as it comes. And...I have seen a lot of smart Americans!

And...so...PLEASE stop this rude discussion!!!

abc

February 10, 2009 04:21 PM

@Mansa - You have proved yourself to be an idiot. You had a president for 8 years, who not only lacked people skills, but was a total joke. This talks volumes about the intelligence of people here. And why are you now not working and instead spending your valuable work time in this website. This is exactly the reason people in US get thrown out of their job as they are not commited -- and intelligent -- enough. Talking for hours about baseball, football and superbowl with your buddies in office instead of working is not called "people skills". Instead, try to do your job, improve your skills, and pray that you are not laid off.

Is it not rude when the stupid americans come up with racist and protectionist comments such as "America is for Americans"? And who are you to say that? It is not long back that all white and black folks came over here as "immigrants". If "America is for Americans", then the Native Indians should have kicked your white and black asses out of USA long back

ts

February 10, 2009 04:28 PM

H1B workers fill the vacuum of cheap labor in the IT industry, which is different from Computer or Software Engineering. The vacuum exists because Americans (let's define "American" as a person born in the USA for now) grow up in a culture that emphasizes independent thought, risk-taking, ambition, and opportunity to try things out and a freedom of setting goals limited only by one's imagination. This is inculcated right from the early years in the public school system - my 2nd grader daughter regularly does homework consisting of problems that really do not have a right or wrong answer, but forces her to think of one of many possible approaches to a final goal. India, on the other hand, still follows a school system where the grades depend on how much each student can memorize and retain to dump in an examination, and the concept of standing 1st, 2nd or 3rd in class is still cherished.

As a result, most Indians are mainly incapable of independent thought, and are very good at following orders, and reverse-engineer stuff pioneered by others - skills that make them invaluable in a labor-driven industry in the IT field.

Conversely, when it comes to Innovation or just Engineering, Indian workers typically do not do well - because there is an absence of clear directions or a path shown my someone else.

Therein lies the opportunity for Americans, as it always has been. Contrary to a post by a fellow Indian above, neithe Microsoft Windows nor Oracle was conceived and pioneered by an Indian (unless Dave Cutler is an Indian, which I severely doubt).

Perhaps there will be day when an Indian Company will have the skills and risk-taking ability to write a simple thing as a software package to do taxes, like Turbotax or Taxact. That day is not here yet.

Indians are adept at driving cars, but engineering a car is not their ball game.

Long live the iPhone, envisioned, designed and engineered by Americans, perhaps coded per directions by some Indians.

Let H1B workers be - America needs them as much as the huge illegal immigrant population - there are some jobs best left to cheap labor which no American would want to touch at the expense of what Americans do best - innovate; think out of the box; and in a sense cause the Human race to progress.

Note: I am a proud naturalize American citizen, born and educated in India.

mohit sharma in north carolina

February 10, 2009 04:32 PM

The Indian body shops that hire unqualified workers and loan them to american companies. The american companies teach them on th ejob. Then they apply for green cards. H1-b can be extended indefinitely if you apply for a green card. Then the Unqualified Indian becomes a green card holder and at the same time his unemplyed wife too get the green card along with their children. Then he becomes the citizen and calls in his parents who get immediate green card. His parents babysit his children and stay at home. Then the parents become citizens and apply for government benefits. Without working 1 single day and making no contribution to th eeconomy the parents get life time health insurance and government checks.
All in all, excellent deal for Unqualified Indian on fake resume with education qualifications and fake cooked up work experiences. He gets Us citizenship, his y=unemployed wife and his children get that too, his children get free eductaion, his parents get lifetime government health insurance and lifetime government checks.
To keep that the H1-B will do fight no holds barred.
FOOLISH AMERICANS.

Owe

February 10, 2009 04:40 PM

people who'r coming up these new stupid laws are shooting them selves in the foot.
you have to accept reality!! foreigners are better than Americans in IT.
listen to Bill Gates.
American on the other hand are better in bookkeeping.

bla bla bla

February 10, 2009 04:49 PM

India should immediately scrap all the pending aircraft order from Boeing and hand it over to Airbus....... and it should also kick Macdonalds, Pepsi and Coke out of the country we can live without them... ...H1b constitute less than 1% of the workforce.. and these americans are trying to put all the blames of current economic meltdown to them..!!! they should blame themselves to choose people like George Bush...

bla bla bla

February 10, 2009 04:53 PM

Mansa...

How are you so sure ..people who are claiming to be Indian in this forum are actually from India...? you are refering this forum as proof to your senator..? this actually shows your immaturity....

S. Crewed

February 10, 2009 04:59 PM

Aar Bee -

1) 2.5 million jobs lost - but the U.S. has about 1,000,000 H-1Bs in this country right now because the visa lasts for 6 (and now 7 and more because of a recent extension) years, and the 85,000/year number is a fictitious "limit" that has never, ever been adhered to owing to exemptions and oversubscription. The average is around 110,000/year for 2003-2006.
2) H-1B is joined by the L-1, the F-1 and other visas currently being abused. A list of L-1 employers compiled by Sen. Grassley (IA) in 2007 runs over 300 pages, with some employers bringing in thousands of L-1s. Employers' abuse of the L-1 program correlates with employer abuse of the H-1B program. There are no limits on either L-1 or F-1. The numbers are therefore EVEN HIGHER than the 1,000,000 H-1Bs.
3) H-1Bs (and L-1s) fuel offshore outsourcing. Even India's finance minister admits this and calls the H-1B the "outsourcing visa." Many of the biggest H-1B employers are Indian offshore outsourcing companies (7 out of the top 10!) More offshore outsourcing to India in practice has meant jobs lost in the U.S. - not gained.
4) The threats to U.S. IP, government programs, and national security are becoming increasingly apparent. Two incidents alone in just the last six months have demonstrated that these programs put billions in U.S. IP at risk and needlessly endangered two American financial institutions (Fannie Mae and Bank of America) through loss of data that would have cost U.S. taxpayers additional billions in damages.
Ending the H-1B and L-1 programs and returning the F-1 to its original time limit will therefore have a substantial impact in reducing U.S. unemployment and improving the U.S. economy's long-term prospects. This isn't anti-immigrant and it isn't racist (in fact I find it fascinating that those shouting racism charges are usually from some of the most documentably anti-immigrant and racist nations on earth) - ending these two programs is just smart industrial and social policy.

brian

February 10, 2009 05:01 PM

Even being an Indian, I love USA as much as I love India. America is one of the most friendliest places on earth.

Advice to all Indians:
Americans DO NOT usually complain about people of other race/origin. It is just that the country is in such a massive economic turmoil, they may appear to be little frustrated/stressed out. This will pass (as everyday cannot be a bad-day) and US will again be the same good-ol-place.

Advice to all Americans:
Indians come down to USA to succeed and be a part of the country. They also want to share their talents to make sure America stays #1 on this planet. Let me assure you, "ALL Indians love America". Personally I find Americans great people who take life as it comes. And...I have seen a lot of smart Americans...quite a lot of it!

And...so...PLEASE stop this rude discussion.

S. Crewed

February 10, 2009 06:19 PM

Aar Bee -

1) 2.5 million jobs lost - but the U.S. has about 1,000,000 H-1Bs in this country right now because the visa lasts for 6 (and now 7 and more because of a recent extension) years, and the 85,000/year number is a fictitious "limit" that has never, ever been adhered to owing to exemptions and oversubscription. The average is around 110,000/year for 2003-2006.
2) H-1B is joined by the L-1, the F-1 and other visas currently being abused. A list of L-1 employers compiled by Sen. Grassley (IA) in 2007 runs over 300 pages, with some employers bringing in thousands of L-1s. Employers' abuse of the L-1 program correlates with employer abuse of the H-1B program. There are no limits on either L-1 or F-1. The numbers are therefore EVEN HIGHER than the 1,000,000 H-1Bs.
3) H-1Bs (and L-1s) fuel offshore outsourcing. Even India's finance minister admits this and calls the H-1B the "outsourcing visa." Many of the biggest H-1B employers are Indian offshore outsourcing companies (7 out of the top 10!) More offshore outsourcing to India in practice has meant jobs lost in the U.S. - not gained.
4) The threats to U.S. IP, government programs, and national security are becoming increasingly apparent. Two incidents alone in just the last six months have demonstrated that these programs put billions in U.S. IP at risk and needlessly endangered two American financial institutions (Fannie Mae and Bank of America) through loss of data that would have cost U.S. taxpayers additional billions in damages.
Ending the H-1B and L-1 programs and returning the F-1 to its original time limit will therefore have a substantial impact in reducing U.S. unemployment and improving the U.S. economy's long-term prospects. This isn't anti-immigrant and it isn't racist (in fact I find it fascinating that those shouting racism charges are usually from some of the most documentably anti-immigrant and racist nations on earth) - ending these two programs is just smart industrial and social policy.

Don

February 10, 2009 07:10 PM

This is ridiculous. People are talking as if H1-B workers don't pay taxes. We PAY taxes too and its the tax payers money that is being used for bailout...

Ria

February 10, 2009 07:11 PM

@ MeMyself: FYI I DO understand and speak English fluently… BTW its “capitalism is about” NOT “capitalist about”...LOL LOL. Get your parts of speech right before you go telling anyone else how to read and write English. I should have known though that someone that calls themselves "MeMyself" could not write and would think of themselves as “added value” to the US. (can we say conceited…here?) GIVE ME A BREAK… I must have hit a nerve when I mentioned that you came here for the education…huh? Well yeah of course...anyone can come here if they CHEAT their way through… One more thing…I am sure you job hopped until someone “sponsored” you for that green card and you saying that you have Options?? please…if you had any then you wouldn’t be here taking away American jobs.

lou

February 10, 2009 07:36 PM

no there's only 60 thousand H1B's per year...

all of this is non sens, like if stopping having 60 thousand H1B will save millions of jobs..

DCBoy

February 10, 2009 08:03 PM

People

I am a green card holder who worked his way on an H1. Even though I might not agree with the logic behind the backlash against H1B and EB, I do understand the emotions and pain a lot of people are going through right now.

It is very natural to feel the first right to opportunity your home country offers. Almost every H1B holder in US would be completely outraged if their job in home country was displaced by somebody from other country.

As employment based immigrants we should be very thankful to the opportunities this country offers, and try to respect feelings of the people who are not doing that well.

At the same time everybody in the US, has to start coming to terms to the global realities. Every kid has to work harder and smarter than the generation before. Sense of entitlement has to go away.

This recession will pass and sentiments will change. For the country to remain on top, it has to address some key structural issues it faces.

ABCD

February 10, 2009 08:06 PM

To Mansa,

Let's go to basics Mansa. In this forum you're not only one who has worked with executive so let's not be specific here. Secondly, just by reading this forum how can you say 'ALL' indians....can you say how many indians involved in this forum....you can't. This forum and people involved here are not accusing anyone here, they are debating on issue and it's open forum. If you're giving an option of 'setting up a Class ACtion LawSuit' then every debate in US should have converted in setting up this lawsuit, so please let's not go to laws. Now, about your thinking on 'Arrogant': Read your comments aagin and feel words you wrote, does that sound like writing an arrogant script? I dont have to answer that as you are smart enough to understand as you know thinking of working executives. All I want to say to you Mansa, Turn it back and read article again and understand what people are saying and debating against article not every one's comments.

Vee

February 10, 2009 08:23 PM

Aar Bee, YOU NEED TO DO YOUR MATH PROPERLY...85,000 * 10 = 8 MILLION,
85000 FOR 10 YEARS IS 8 MILLION MY FRIEND, NO ONE GOES BACK, THERE IS ALWAYS MORE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY.

VEE

February 10, 2009 09:03 PM

THEY COME ON H1 AND L1 TO A COMPANY 10 AMERICAN JOBS ARE LOST. SLOWLY THEY TAKE THE APPLICATION HOME (OUTSOURCE) 100 AMERICAN JOBS LOST. THEN THEY BID AND TAKE ALL IT APPLICATION FROM THE COMPANY 100% AMERICAN JOBS LOST. THIS THE WAY THEY EAT THE AMERICAN JOBS AND THE IRONY IS THAT THEY WANT MORE H1'S.

DallasDude

February 10, 2009 09:08 PM

Allright guys here is my humble 2 cents..

To say it nicely the world is increasingly being modelled on the principles US was founded and has flourished. Pursuit of happiness and prosperity has motivated countries around the world and has provided individuals in these countries the fire and passion to be innovative and make a difference. The US no longer enjoys the exclusivity in terms of creating new products and services and there is whole new world out there competing with each other. This is basic economics where the new high growth markets are doing what they usually do...GROW. To compete we need to encourage free flow of talent into the US. There are not enough engineers in the US ...nor there will ever be enough best in class engineers and technical manpower to service the new information age driven economy. Remember that the baby boomer generation is retiring in the next 5-10 years..where will the technical manpower come from..how will social security be funded without new industries and growth. Unfortunately as a country becomes affluent...the younger generations tend to take up careers higher up the management chain which enables them to make more money. Due to this we do not have a sustainable pipleline which can replinish the need.

Lets talk abt numbers...55k H1B visa workers coming in each year...what is this in terms of the overall unemployed population 55k/12million=0.45%...guys thats 0.45% of the total unemployed population. All of these 12million unemployed do not have the tranferrable skills to really do these 55k jobs...nor is it possible to retrain them in the short term since it would require 4+years of college education. Each H1B job creates 10 other jobs(tasks) in the US..lawyers, payroll, administrative, real estate..etc and keeps the job and taxes in the US.

Guys its not that bad and going after the H1B program is like a witch hunt..We are better than this...Lets be logical

genus11

February 10, 2009 09:47 PM

Ok. Let's do the math. It takes about 5-6 years to get a green card for H1B visa holder. 65,000 new H1Bs a year plus student visas + who knows what other visas. Altogether probably at the rate of 100-120,000 a year. Over 6 years it comes to 650,000+
Out of the 2.5 million of lost jobs probably a quarter requires any degrees..
Seems to me a clear cut case of limiting number of visa granted.
One can only take a look also at industrial collapse here, mass outsourcing abroad, etc..
Oh well.. Nothing serious can be done in US. It's all a tempest in the kettle.
And by the way I am US citizen and an immigrant, but really don't like the current trands.

Just another H1B

February 10, 2009 09:55 PM

Its simple really. Let all the H1B workers go back to their respective countries and let america have a protectionist policy... may be that will make u all happy. And you think you can replace every single with an American at this present time. Give me a break... My fellow MBAs did not want to join a firm since there were too many brown skins... There was an open position for which candidates were interviewed for almost 1 year without any luck... if you think its just the H1Bs... think again.. there are always 2 sides to a coin.

KS

February 10, 2009 10:15 PM

My company was trying to hire for two positions for the last six months and all we could find is one indian and one chinese. This shows why the H1B program is thirving.

Cool dude

February 10, 2009 10:17 PM

In India the parents will inculcate discipline in their children to study. They are told to balance life by studying and also playing. This way an indian is quite well educated much early on. they party but they SAVE. Indians do not take buy too much on credit but will save money and buy only when they can afford.
In India we like to prepay the housing loans. But in America one can get away with foreclosure by stopping payments.
You need to have discipline
1. First Priority is to get higher education
2. Second Priority is to SAVE
3. Do not spend on credit cards, loans if you cannot repay them.
4. Live within your means
5. Cut back on unecessary expenditures

If these are followed we can come out of recession much faster.

justlikethat

February 10, 2009 10:20 PM

US cos. not only have saved money by outsourcing the jobs but the cause for raise in reality prices in India as equal to US paying just 1/10th of the salary invoice.

Fed Up!

February 10, 2009 10:21 PM

Illegal immigrants are justifiably the subject of universal opprobrium. However, what does that have to do with the issue of H1/L1 "temporary non-immigrant" visas? Isn't that another thread?

H1Bs are supposed to relieve "skills shortages" on a TEMPORARY basis-they are NON-IMMIGRANT visas. Thus, can one of you Indian racists please explain what "skills shortage" is being relieved when Pfizer fires Americans and demands they train their H1B replacements as a condition of their severance packages?

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/Did-Pfizer-Force-its-Staff-to-Train-Their-H1B-Replacements/

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/pfizer-forcing-us-citizens-train-h-1b-guest-worker-replacements-being-fired

What "skills shortage" is being relieved on a "temporary basis" when Nielsen fires Americans and imports Indians on H1B visas to replace them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwv0sofytE

Finally, the FASTEST GROWING group of illegal immigrants comes not from a Spanish-speaking country but rather from India!

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/02/the-new-illegal.html

http://www.searchindia.com/search/american-ramblings/desi-bhaiya-illegals.html

A Smith

February 10, 2009 10:24 PM

Its a boon for India as there will be less of a brain drain to the USA with all these restrictions on the H1B visas.

stop h1-b, l1

February 10, 2009 11:02 PM

H1-b is designed to provide cheap labor for american companies. Indian body shops are cooking up fake resumes for Indians they loan to american companies.

Many are not even in IT. Many are in HR, finance, management, even motel clerks. Many may be just clerks in american companies.

On one hand american companies hire illegals to do low level manual jobs like in agriculture and on other hand they hire Indians to do desk job.
That way they are displacing american workers.

They are also shipping jobs to India.
It is a double whammy. American workers are being taken to the cleaners from all sides.

If american workers don't have jobs they can't pay their mortagage. all this crisis started with mortagage defaults.

Indians don't allow americans to become Indian citizens but americans allow them to comne on fake resumes, take up american jobs, bring their whole family along and make them american citizens.

l

February 10, 2009 11:08 PM

More than half of H1/L1 put things on their resumes that they have never done. They help each other by building up each other resume so one of their off-shore friends can get the job. At work they share information between each other and many times do not pass it to their American co-workers to make them look not suitable for the environment.
It’s like a chain they want to bring more and more offshore workers so they will get more help each other.

Foreign Student

February 10, 2009 11:18 PM

@ VEE...
85,000 * 10 = 850,000 - not 8.5 million...

@ Mansa...
Indians don't have issues with Americans. It's when an American who hasn't set foot in college starts cribbing about "them Injuns stealing our jobs" that we get pissed off... It's when you attribute the current economic situation solely to the H1B program that we get pissed off...
It's when you think that all Indians get to the US using fake credentials that we get pissed off...

@ S.Crewed - I understand your beef against the H1 and L1 caps, but why should there be a cap on F1 visas? Admissions are granted on a space-available basis - if there's space for a foreign student and the student's credentials are worthwhile then yes, the student should and will get a visa.

Class Action Law Suit Againt H1B hiring Companies

February 11, 2009 12:12 AM

It is time for a Class Action Law Suit H1B and L1 hiring Companies. Any good Lawyer, you can find plenty of US IT workers who lost jobs to H1Bs amd L1s. It time that we fight for our rights. Our "useless" politicians are NOT doing anything to help American Workers. I Want to extend my thanks to Senator Grassley and Senator Sandors for their support.

Fed Up!

February 11, 2009 12:52 AM

It's a fact that illegal aliens are law breakers. As such, they are justifiably subject to universal opprobrium.

There is no disagreement as to how the illegal alien mess should be resolved...

However, the Indian racists are attempting to use the issue of illegal aliens as a red herring.

Thus, I must point out that;

The San Francisco Chronicle reports 1.5 million illegal alien Chinese, Filipinos, other Asians. Just look at the smiling illegal alien (Asian) posing for the Chronicle camera in the picture associated with the story;

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/18/MNG7JITSJA1.DTL&type=politics

Asian Indians now the fastest GROWING segment of illegal aliens-and these are 2006 numbers! If there are 400,000 Asian Indian illegals as of 2006 and they are growing at a rate of 125% every 6 years, how many Indian illegal alien law breakers are now resident on US soil?

http://www.searchindia.com/search/american-ramblings/desi-bhaiya-illegals.html

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/02/the-new-illegal.html

Deepak

February 11, 2009 01:11 AM

Temporary work programs like H1B are the most selfish plan brought about by America.Its win win for US.US didn't spend subsidised money on H1B worker's primary education, secondary education,graduate education, nor technical education. The US govt is getting readymade engineers from whom they can tax money from the day enter the job.That's why other countries they encourage immigration.what a irony. work hard here and no guarantee of getting permanent visa here.

i have seen some really technically good americans. if they are interested in something, they are really good in that.And it is fun to work with americans than fellow indians.So anyone saying they are not good is wrong.
When times were good, no one cared about H1b workers.
There is a saying don't muzzle the ox when it is doing the threshing.

The recession has impacted everyone. I know lot of indians who have have left to india because of no projects.it has impacted both americans and indians and others.

Th

February 11, 2009 01:44 AM

It is unrealistic to say that iQ is the only basis for getting a job in IT industry. What the company wants from you is commitement and quality in delivery. No body can assess the iQ of a person just by looking to his degrees or from the nation in which he is coming from becoz it's not dependent on both. I'm not an american, but still I love the way americans interact with others. Loosing a job is a painful thing for everybody. But lets' hope for the best in future.

dear fellow sw engrs, I wish we could have been bit more courteous in writing the comments. Who are we to assess the "laziness" and "stupidity" of others? You are here not only becoz of ur iQ, but it is becoz ur parents made u study ur lessons during ur school and college days, it is bcoz u didn't become a prey to INDIVIDUALISM. You didn't get a chance to run after Football or cricket during ur exam days. Before 20 yrs ago the word IT didn't make any sense to anybody, we have survived without IT and outsourced jobs so let's not take senator's decision to the bottom of our heart.

tomi

February 11, 2009 07:45 AM

Us belongs to red Indians. All europeans, africans etc who are now claiming on this land should go back to their countries of origin. specially europeans who plundered this land.

Concerned Citizen

February 11, 2009 08:33 AM

This is just a diversion to make Americans feel that they are being protected. But most jobs that being cut do not even have H1B competition. I urge my fellow Americans to not be fooled by this. Protecting our interests does not mean destroying anyone else's.

Stephen

February 11, 2009 08:49 AM

American Desi, I notice that you did not even try to refute my arguments regarding the rampant anti-American discrimination in the workplace. Instead you chose to resort to the tired old tactic of questioning my *competitiveness*.

FYI, I have a Masters degree in Computer Science and a Bachelors degree in Electrical Engineering. Also, as a high school student I competed for – and won- a National Merit Scholarship. My professional expertise is in parallel computing and embedded systems.

The only reason corporations favor foreign guest-workers over Americans is that the foreigners are willing to work cheaper in order to obtain a greencard for legal permanent residence. That is arbitrage, not competition.

H!B Holder

February 11, 2009 09:26 AM

Can americans do the following things.

1. Are americans flexible to learn and work on latest technologies?

Ans - Never seen an american working on
coping with new technologies

2. Take less salary like H1B Holders?
Ans - No
3. Work for long hours with getting paid for extra hour?
Ans - Never seen (at least 90%) people staying after 430Pm or 5PM

4. Work on weekends? Most of H1 B holders never get paid for weekends.

Ans- I dont think they can work
5. Can do production support type jobs and answer calls during late hours(11PM or 2AM)?

And there are lots of other points. If you feel that americans can do above then fine H1b can be removed

Remember 1 thing -

H1B holders have thier own country which is like backbone and they can go to any country.
Can americans do that?

Jay

February 11, 2009 09:33 AM

Limiting H1-B visas is a very short-sighted, knee-jerk action. H1-B is not really taking American jobs abroad. In fact, bringing H1-B employees helps the economy. People rent/buy apartment/houses, buy car, applicances, furniture, etc. as they have to settle down from very basic. Another fact we need to look into is about what percentage of the nearly 4 million jobs lost are in the category of skills hired using H1-B.

Onepointmanyviews

February 11, 2009 10:08 AM

An editor once told me that a good story is defined by the amount of interest it generates. By that edict...great story...

for all Americans.. who believe that India is a reason for their financial mess which started from the sub-prime crisis...i say i understand the frustration....

the US government should totally ban outsourcing, H1B, LI and all sorts of other visas..they should also ban foreign ( read Indian students) coming in...they should send home all foreign ( read Indian)professors, scientists, back to their homes....

they should do an ethnic cleansing of sorts, pick out Indians and send them home....

once that is done and the country is free of "indians" there will be magic...the economy will immediately rebound....there will be MILLIONS of jobs ( because the Indians have left), American banks and companies will prosper, and all economic woes will be solved...

The only reason for this recession are Indians. Indians are also not talented, incredibly racist and cannot manage companies and hence by sending them home, they will not be missed in America at all.

America should look at cleaning up. I think ethnic cleansing will be a wonderful start. Only valid Americans should stay and work in America. They should not allow anyone else to enter, work, or study. Once they do that all the issues will be solved. I don't however know how one can define a valid American. Maybe the lawmakers can solve that one.

America is a wonderful country...a land of dreams...they should enjoy the dream amongst themselves...definitely Indians should not be allowed to be part of that dream, because they are just breaking it down.Not a good thing.

We Indians will go home or to some other country which is willing to accomodate us....we have a billion at home....a few more returning from America wont cause too many problems...we are a poor country....so we will keep studying...keep working...because for us that is the only way to a better life...


I once did a PHD from Oxford( In UK) and then came home. I am happy here.
I think sending all Indians home right now is imperative for American happiness. They should do it right now.America should close its doors..once and for all...and save itself...no trade...no foreign exchange...no educational diplomacy...NO OUTSOURCING...NO H1B.....

We Indians are absolutely abhorring and hence should not be mixed with or engaged in any sort of activity. Please save your country.End this misery.....

I really want to see this happen...my only question is who will make this happen...i hope Obama does. I REALLY hope he does.

This talk has gone on for ages...time for change has come...let there be change...now....send the Indians packing....lets stop talking...lets start doing....Senators and Lawmakers...quit talking...do it.Stop complaining to forums...go do something about it.... Americans make this happen. If you can its awesome...all the better for you...lets have some slogans..some protests...AN AMERICA FREE OF INDIANS...ALL SHOUT...YES WE CAN....

And if you cant....then shut up. For good.

We will take it as it comes...we always have....

A simple non talented Indian living in India without an H1B who is very proud of his nationality.

Mike

February 11, 2009 10:17 AM

We should be addressing the core issue which is the economic crisis caused by the CEOs and other bigwigs like Greenspan (the single most important reason for this crisis) for bringing us where we are now. Because of these people we are loosing jobs in millions as opposed to a few thousands taken by H1B. Moreover H1B are hired (our Business decision) by we Americans, they work and get paid unlike bosses of Merrill Lynch, Lehman, and Geithner (who does not believe in paying taxes)etc who get millions in bonuses inspite of their failing companies.

Will

February 11, 2009 10:25 AM

I am in favor of putting limits on when and how companies who receive federal monies can replace or outsource US citizens. I have worked in corp American for nearly 30 years. I have seen a huge influx in cheap[er] foreign labor at the expense of US citizens who have much more invested in keeping the US economy robust. It's all about lower labor costs, but the hidden impact and cost of this is overlooked. Companies use all kinds of ruses to get rid of US workers.. and unfortuntely unless there are strict laws, the companies will continue to dodge the intent of the law.

Ethics Count

February 11, 2009 11:46 AM

In Response to "Peter Pan's" question about how H1-Bs can effect American workers. This is simple. I worked at Lucent Technologies when it was laying off thousands of Americans. At the same time they were adding and renewing H1-B workers. The lawyers can navigate the rules to make this easily possible. The reason usually was not cost, it was doing favors for friends and acquaintences. Most of these jobs could have been done by the excellent tallent that was let go in the thousands.

Sunny

February 11, 2009 11:48 AM

To pro and anti immigrants:

Did you guys ever hear about 50,000 American greencards distributed every year on lottery basis to come countries. That 50,000 translates to 200,000 per year when you count families. May I know why we need this lottery system, when there are legals who burn their backs for long waiting queues. This lottery is called diversity lottery or something. Why do we need this in the last 10-20 years. I am not sure when this started, but if it is 20 years., then the math says 20x200000=4,000,000= 4 millions people, mostly with NO skills, and NO English. Can someone please tell Mr. Grassley to fix this one too. Job losses occured more in areas where most of these lottery guys come and took the jobs.. Come on guys, this country shouldnt be a free lunch for anyone. Our grandparents who camne here 50-100 years back sacrificed their today to give us our today. Same applies to anyone who follows a legal route. This lottery is also a legal route,.. But that sounds stupid to me.. Anyone with me??

VS

February 11, 2009 11:56 AM

Kudos to all Americans who have been screaming against all outsiders with H1B and Green Cards.
Answer this, how many Americans actually get a college degree, and I am not talking about masters, just a simple Bachelors. Most people complaining don't want to study, don't want to work hard, want everything for cheap, want heavy pay checks so on and so forth. Anyone with an ounce of brain can tell you that all this dosent add up.
Its very easy for all to complain and push blame over to people with H1B and green card.
If you have a problem with people coming with H1B, go complain to the American politicians and policy makers who are responsible for this mess.
International workers have been present in this country for decades, current market situation is not because people with H1B were hired but because the government was sleeping when markets started to fall.
Also, like people here say that send all International students and workers back home, other countries should stop using American products. Then what will you do, there wasnt any non-american in the US, whom will you blame.
Most universities in the US have money because International students pay that hefty fee to get higher education. If they go, universities wont have enough money to hire teachers, but i dont think that will be a problem since most people here dont go for higher education.
If you want your jobs, then get off your ass and get a higher degree, because if you were a company owner and had to decide between keeping a guy with a high school degree or one with Masters, you would keep one with Masters. Its plain common sense.

DR

February 11, 2009 12:30 PM

Before such visa programs were in place, just exactly HOW did the US manage to be such a great innovator? Its obviously a mystery to the visa proponents.

VEE

February 11, 2009 12:46 PM

OK GUYS I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS, I AM FED UP OF WRITING TOO MANY EMAILS TO THE SENATORS AGAINST STOPPING OUTSOURCING ETC NOTHING WORKS, ITS HIGH TIME NOW THAT WE AMERICANS CITIZENS NEED TO DO SOMETHING, WE NEED TO SAVE OUR JOBS, EVEN WITH SO MUCH UNEMPLOYMENT OUTSOURCING IS STILL GOING ON, SONY IS OUTSOURCING A VERY BIG MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT TO TCS (INDIAN COMPANY), MANY AMERICAN JOBS ARE GOING TO BE LOST AT SONY, WALMART IS OUTSOURCING THEIR WHOLE BPO PROCESS AND FOR AROUN $500 MILLION AND HAVE REQUESTED FOR PROPOSAL AND ARE TALKING WITH INFOYSY, IBM AND WIPRO, 1000 OF AMERICAN JOBS WILL BE LOST IF THIS GOES THRU. THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS, BUT THEY DONT CARE, AS A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CITIZEN I HAVE DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING, I AM CURRENTLY LOOKING FOR A ATTORNEY TO FILE A CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT AGAINST H1B'S L1'S AND OUTSOURCING WHEN THERE IS TOO MUCH UNEMPLOYMENT IN THIS COUNTRY. ANY GOOD LAWYER OUT THERE PLEASE CONTACT ME, ANY US CITIZEN WHO WANT TO SUPPORT ME ALSO PLEASE CONTACT ME.

PChelp

February 11, 2009 01:04 PM

Dear friends,
Before pointing fingure to H1B holders, Can you honestly think over following points?
1> What made you so incompetitiant that you are loosing jobs to indians?
We are not incompetent; H1B's work for less.
2> How manh of us holding higher degrees and true work experiance are jobless, due to H1B? A whole lot; look at the IT industry. Why pay a regular worker 75000 when they can get H1B for 40000.
3> Our fathers were also immigrants here, what if they were asked to leave this land on a short notice? Immigrants who became "citizens" and stayed here and took part in this melting pot and raised children here. not temporary workers like H1B that just come here for a job.
4> How many of us can sustain our jobs, if developing economy like India, china bans USA products? Big deal, a few bottles of Pepsi and a few airliners - so what. As it is US products are a hard sell due to protectionist tariffs etc. Just what exactly do you buy? not a whole lot you aren't importg important items like automobiles, washing machines, or other items like that which sustain alot of US jobs. You are buying "licenses" to produce locally Pepsi, Macdonalds etc. And you purchase airliners and some industrial equipmnet which requires less labor.
5> Arent 90% of USA products manuafactured in china? What lead to this situation? No, it's not 90% Walmart maybe but not all US stuff. Greed on part of our very wealthy share holders and CEO's is what caused this based on the incentives offered by host countries who undercut American companies.
6> When we are doing parties late night or celebrationg hig school, people at India are working more hard to gain knowledge. Whom to blame? This is so racist ans tereotypical I wont dignify with a comment - well maybe I will. Why bother to get an education and only loose your job to H1B? Besides, Theknowledge gained in these "worker factories" is task based, not a broad education.
7> Isnt it violation of human rights by making this H1B workers pay for taxes,ssn, medicare and then ask to leave without giving them back the money they have given to US government?Sorry, its the same as putting VAT's and tariffs on items imported from USA to other nations. And as far as taxes, you use the roads, hospitals, public facilites, transit etc. so you are paying like citizens do for those services. If you don't like it, too bad.
8> By not allowing H1B to change the jobs, if they dont have Green card, what are we promoting? SLAVERY!! hardly, H1B visa people know what they are getting into based on the requirements of the H1B law. If you want a green card, go that route, not H1B.
9> By not allowing wifes of H1b holders to work, arent we violation the humen right of that indivisual? We advocate protection of humen rights all over the world but what about this wifes of H1B holders?
over all, how can 0.04% of H1b holders in financial sector caused economy to collapsed? Didnt american economy colleapsed due to greed of American born and citizens of USA??????? it wasn't only in the USA , this crisis is global and fault is placed all over it wasn't only Goldman Sachs, it was other banks like UBS that contributed to this mess as well. Nice to also notice how the housing/credit crises also happened in UK and DE. The US is not the root of your problem.

Dave

February 11, 2009 01:15 PM

To AJ above,
You claimed that Indian workers are 40% of PhD etc etc. I think you should cite your reference before making such claims. Based on research by Prof. William Kerr, Indian PhD is only around 6% of US PhD. A big difference from your stats. So, please cite all your references for all to check.

tgy

February 11, 2009 01:16 PM

If we can stop or reduce H1B and L1 visa, it will stop or reduce outsourcing in a big scale, lots of those big companies using these temp work visa to bring offshore people onsite to train or make them knowledgable to work offshore, without these people going onsite, offshore is very very difficult

REAL DEEPAK

February 11, 2009 01:18 PM

IF INDIANS ARE SO SMART WHY DO THEY DESPERATELY WANT TO BE IN AMERICA?
Look at India. Most people are very poor. INDIANS COULD NOT MAKE INDIA BETTER AND THEY ARE ESCAPING FROM INDIA.
COMING TO AMERICA ON FAKE RESUMES AND FAKE JOBS.
Alomst 50 percent of RESUMES AT CHENNAI US CONSULATE SUBMITTED BY INDIANS WERE FOUND TO BE FAKES!
Look next to you and INVESTIGATE THE INDIAN , THE BANGALDESHI, THE PAKISTANI - THEY WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE FAKE RESUME.
Then the Indian will be learning the JOB FROM THE AMERICAN AND DISPLACING HIM/HER.
THEN THE INDIAN WILOL BE CALLING HIS WIFE AND HIS CHILDREN AND THEY WILL GET THE GREEN CARD FROM ALONG WITH HIM.
THEN HE WILL BE CALLING HI SPARENTS AND THEY WILL DO NO WORK AND BEGAN GETTING GOVERNMENT BENEFITS.
SL;OWLY THE INDIAN WILL CALL HIS SIBLINGS, HIS NEPHWES AND NEICES.
IF INDIAN CULTURE IS SO STRONG WHY ARE APING WESTERN CULTURE?

To: Humanitarian

February 11, 2009 01:43 PM

H1 Visa is an employer needs someone work in US not somewhere else. The new rule is intend to preventing frauds that has been done by greedy companies. We stop H1B, it will open jobs for Americans. If companies want to produce things in other countries, it's their choses, new regulations will force them to produce as much as possible in US when US needs jobs

Kate

February 11, 2009 02:10 PM

At the same time, those H1B or any other visa holders pay taxes the same way U.S. citizens do. They even have fewer deductions to claim, so the TARP fund money is not just U.S. citizens' money.

S. Crewed

February 11, 2009 02:24 PM

"....we are loosing jobs in millions as opposed to a few thousands taken by H1B." Say what???
New H-1B visas issued: 2001 - 201,079; 2002 - 103,584; 2003 - 105,314; 2004 - 130,497; 2005 - 116,927 (USCIS stats). That's already ***657,401*** and we're only through 2005! Tack on an estimate of 110,000/year more for 2006-2008 and the sum gets close to 1,000,000. ONE MILLION.
Add uncapped L-1 visa numbers to this - a statistic I hear frequently is 315,000 which helps because USCIS DOESN'T REPORT TIMELY IMMIGRATION STATISTICS PUBLICLY - and the sum gets to 1.3 million.
That's a lot of jobs.
Add to this number international students on F-1 "practical training" visas which were extended from 12 to 29 months by government fiat (that means NOT submitted for legislative deliberation or popular vote). Add also "visa overstayers" presently here illegally and working. Factor in the fact that many H-1B and L-1 visas are used to help offshore outsource operations (it's a matter of public record - Indian offshore outsourcing companies are some of the biggest subscribers of H-1B and L-1 visas) - and suddenly we're talking about several million jobs. Millions.

kjdamrau

February 11, 2009 02:35 PM

That's right. Even though American labor has priced itself out of the market, companies should be forced to pay those wages. Of course, the extra cost has to be passed on to the consumer, but too bad, we are trying to achieve a worker's paradise here, right?

Gordern

February 11, 2009 02:37 PM

This issue has nothing to do with Indians...

The main culprit are some of the highly failed CEOs from Wall Street and the ever awkward credit system of our nation. The funny part is that a person doing finance job gets very less salary elsewhere in US when compared with another person doing the same job in NYC. I have seen people getting $150k-175k /yr. doing nothing in NYC...really unacceptable!

As for Indians...IMHO...a bunch of moderately smart people who just like to enjoy US...nothing much...

Evan

February 11, 2009 03:46 PM

This is seriously screwed up. I'm a white american, born and raised, but my girlfriend is a taiwan foreign exchange student looking for accounting work after she finshed her masters last month. This is going to make it very hard for her to get a job now. I am sick and tired of americas fear of others that aren't white, first blacks, then japanese, then mexicans and middle easterners, now any immigrant who has a H1B visa. america needs to get off it's ass and stop hating the world. I served in the Army for 3 years, but refused to re-enlist because i couldn't stand how my country imposes itself on everyone not like it. I'm seriously considering moving to canada or singapore.

Alex b

February 11, 2009 04:27 PM

Republicans are no heros here. They championed H1B visas under Bush. Now that they've totally wrecked this country they try to take credit for what Democrats want. Good riddance to the Republicans.

VEE

February 11, 2009 04:40 PM

ANTI AMERICAN COMPANIES LIKE INFOSYS, WIPRO, COGNIZANT TECHNOLOGIES, TCS, HCL TECHNOLOGIES, THESE COMPANIES NEVER HIRE AMERICAN CITIZEN, THEIR STAFF IS 99% INDIANS, BUT OUR GOVERNMENT LETS THESE COMPANIES OPERATE IN AMERICA, THESE COMPANIES SHOULD BE BANNED FROM OPERATING IN AMERICAN SOIL UNLESS THEY START HIRING AMERICAN CITIZENS IN USA.

J

February 11, 2009 04:59 PM

Please could someone ask Timasek, King Abdullah, Mitsubishi UFJ, and the various other foreign investors that kept US banks afloat (to see what happens to US banks that couldn't get a foreign bail out, chat to Lehman/Barclays) to pull their money out (though given how much the share prices have bombed, this is a waste). Clearly, foreign capital/workers not needed. And I'm sure these companies, and any companies that were considering on ever investing in US banks, will think twice once they limit human capital flow

Jack

February 11, 2009 05:34 PM

Let me get this straight. For all the sins the banks have committed in the past the people who are coming here to work after establishing and proving their worth are getting the short end of the stick? Hmmm...sounds like a brilliant plan. Disaster on its way friends. Throwing workers out of jobs, irrespective of their nationality, is the last thing we need at this time. God help us! If protectionism was the key then the german and japanese econimy would have been very strong. Remember for every job lost here there are 5 jobs lost in developing countries...if thats any consulation.

Stop Panicking..

February 11, 2009 05:58 PM

What is more important? Sending all H1Bs back or stopping them from coming into US or Americans getting jobs?

Does it make any sense to just curse the H1Bs when the actual problem is within yourself? If you know a thing or two about the current crisis, you should know that it all started with Sub Prime Home Loans. These loans got bundled into products and were traded by Investment Banks, Insured by Insurers, Highly recommended by Hedge Funds.. and So, with Man's greed grew the value of this bundle. For Example:
- A Bank values a $300,000 worth house to $400,000 so that the buyer will have to make very less or no down payment. Mortgage homes sold these kinds of loans to people for a higher interest rate than the market rate to those individuals who would otherwise have been turned down by banks due to bad credit report.
- Now these loans are bundled by Mortgage homes and sold to bank as CDOs(Collateralized Debt Obligation) and MBS(Mortgage Backed Securities) where Banks will get payments till the time the home owner is making his payments.
- Banks got these instruments insured by other banks and insurance agencies in the form of CDS(Credit Default Swaps) to hedge their Credit Risk in the event of default from Home Owner.
- NOW comes the GREED part where banks packaged these instruments in as many ways possible and started trading. So a Mortgage worth $400,000, was finally worth 10s of millions of Dollars.
When Mortage rates rose along with Interest Rates, these Sub Prime borrowers had to bear the heat of increased Mortgage bills and Housing market started to decline.. where a house which was worth $300,000 a year ago was available for $250,000. Now the re-finance was a tough option too as the borrower would still be making the same payments.
-Banks started experiencing delayed payments and DEFAULTS, so slowly everyone wanted to get out of this mess.. and started selling their instruments in discount without letting other banks know. Whoever remained till the end with these instruments started fading out of the market or were reduced to a bankrupt state, like Lehman Bros, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, AIG, etc.. etc…
- When markets get worse people hang on to their Cash.. so there was an obvious reduction in Retail Sales, Auto Sales, Merchandise etc.. As these businesses were running hand to mouth and not keeping any cash reserves for hard times.. started posting losses and declined sales and eventually missing their loan payments and finally Bankruptcy..
-When an American who gets a job with High School degree, first thing he does is rent an apartment, buy/lease a car or even a truck, get credit cards, start filling his place with furniture and electronics bought on credit. So, he is surely in debt of 50-100K within a year, when his salary would be around 40k-60k.
- This goes on.. spend everything, demand high wages at work, quit jobs get better paid ones, meanwhile get married, buy your fiance a pricey wedding ring, buy a house go for Mortgage..
- It can be safely assumed that almost 70% or the working class Americans are living in 1 or more forms of debt which is 5 times higher than their annual salary.

ENTER H1Bs, pay less, get more work from them. You can make them work for 18-20 hours a day, cover all your mistakes, cover for all your spare time in office. You get a cut from his consultant when you hire him for your company. That consultant and Manager getting a cut out of H1Bs salary are both Americans. So you literally suck blood out of the H1Bs and when you get yourself into some shit because you didn’t get your financials correct.. BLAME him coz he took your job.

He didn't take your job, infact, you were never made for that job he is doing. Its your company who gave that job to him because they felt he can do much justice that job than what you do. And for a lesser price. Howz that? What if you get a Saks Fifth Avenue Trouser which is otherwise priced $250, is selling in WalMart for $20? Obvious right?

Best thing you can do now is, price yourself in such a way that your employer will not find you expensive. Start saving.. spend very responsibly, don’t end up with $10 in your bank account before the next pay day. You will be fine after that. Trust me, of those 500K people who lost their jobs in January.. not even 5% would have been replaced by H1B. If you think that by sending 100,000 H1B holders back you can save 2 million Americans from crisis?? Don’t you think if it was that simple, big heads like Obama wouldn't have done it already??

Blame game

February 11, 2009 06:26 PM

Wow, the people who messed up the system are pointing fingers. Bravo. The US Corporations with the help of the politicians have allowed Foreign companies such as Infosys, Tata, Satyam etc to bring workers to the US, just so that the US corporations can pick and choose the cheapest workers and provide zero benefits to the employees.

Also Corporations like to hire foreign workers cause they cant change jobs or quit easily. The system has been designed in favor of the crooked corporations which dont care about the citizens.

Americans are not hired cause most dont want to update their technical skills according to the market and cannot multi-task.

Outsourcing has degraded the Indian culture, sky rocketed the land prices and over crowded some Indian cities.

The best thing for now would be to Ban all foreign consulting companies from the US and halt any off-shoring projects. Hire only foreigners who earned a US degree.

The Cause

February 11, 2009 06:34 PM

The source for all the problems in Wall Street that has led us to this crisis is not because of hard-working H1-B Visa holders, but because of the greediness of the "American" CEOs who have been feeding their insatiable greed of money at the cost of fellow countrymen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51A40120090211

H1B is not the root cause of the issue, and as someone very clearly pointed out, the H1B jobs are given to qualified candidates after scrutiny with the Department of Labor, so the ignorant people who fail to understand this, should go and try to get their High School degree so they can celebrate their High School Graduation, rather than trying to comment about H1-B Visa Holders who have degree in Sciences and Engineering and more so Advanced Degrees.

Stop partying in Frat houses and move your butt to the Libraries when its time to study, because you can already see the effects of your laziness. Waiting for someone to bailout the economy while living on an Unemployment Cheque is not going to resolve your problem.

If you want to do something, go out and Vote for people who will scrutinize these greedy people and bring them to justice.

Hope things work out great for everyone.

From the laptop of,
~A Distressed H1B worker who got laid off recently

Sarab Mann

February 11, 2009 06:44 PM


I'm from India and once a H1B holder, went to school in US.I would like to suggest Indians to refrain from hateful wording against Americans. You are the people once stand in the queue to get the US visa and dreamt to get the US education and job. If you want to see the Americans how smart they are, visit to any school and try to compete with them. They are very disciplined workers. Sorry to say these harsh wordings to Indians , “why not go back to India and help the system which is still in pathetic shape”

As well as I would like to suggest Americans that they should appreciate the system where people from all around the globe longing to come to USA and express themselves without prejudice . It is this system which created the giant IT industry where other countries’ achievements are dwarfed. I already made the point that IT industry is fast faced industry where learning curve is huge. If H1b or similar programs where not in place then all these giants like Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco would not existing , at least at this scale.It is not about the capability ,US people are very competitive and capable but it is about the speed.

I suppose all the people here are smart and understand the realities, so we should appreciate the economics and business sense behind these programs while Indians also understand realties and refrain from giving false statistics.

viky

February 11, 2009 07:05 PM

The state of economy today is just because of unscrupulous business policies entertained by american companies. That does not include H1B visa holders. Actually they delayed american economy from falling by atleast 20 years. Dont you see that the american production has gone down not because of the unskilled workers or outsourcing it is just because they tried to sell goods to people in third world at exorbitant prices after paying them too little. And surely they were considering these countries as the biggest markets and certainly targeted theirprime interests on these markets. America as a consumer country has lost its stand in american business minds long back.
It simply a lag between supply and demand.
Think wisely every body. keep your personal prejudice aside before you blame somebody.
By the way I am not H1B holder but I paid thousands of dollars on american education. This country men only belive in how nicely english is written or spoken, not in the content of the minds of the people. That is the reason the economy has gone down. People who are running business today can only speak nicely and well to finish off the day for then, but incompetent when it comes tore very incompetent when it comes to making and following good business policies.

steve

February 11, 2009 07:22 PM

I strictly oppose the new rule passed by the American Government.
See if they plan to put the americans inthe H1B holders place,,,jst think a while,,how far Amercians can work on these IT jobs. They cant sit for a long time working on these projects. Moreover they dont have enough man power to fill all these positions.

Info_Tech_Guy

February 11, 2009 07:42 PM

I've directly observed massive offshore outsourcing of middle class American tech and back office white collar jobs in 2 major corporations. In both cases, offshore outsourcing would not have been possible without the generous "guest worker" visa programs enacted by Congress and signed into law by successive U.S. Presidents. How else could companies force American employees to perform "knowledge transfers" -- to train their own replacements? H-1b & L-1 visa programs directly facilitate offshore outsourcing. Perhaps even worse, they allow corporations to keep a low-wage foreign workforce in the U.S. in preference to Americans driving down wages, employment opportunities and discouraging Americans from even studying fields such as computer science which are now notoriously unstable. H-1b & L-1 are even considered "outsourcing visas" by members of the Indian government who have publicly referred to the programs as such. Check out my blog, The Modern Patriot at http://modernpatriot.blogspot.com/. I have written about these visa programs and what they have done to American workers for several years. And I provide links to credible documents and testimony to may the case that these programs do not exist to fill phantom "tech labor shortages".

Support America

February 11, 2009 07:58 PM

Indians on H1-b should go back and make India better with IT. Most Indian still live in extreme poverty. Since sitting in front of a computer and typing up code is IT, it cannot alone make a country rich. Indian should start making cars. let us see if they can make a good car! Or a make a stereo! or a truck! Let us see if they can do anything else besides typing up codes!
H1-b was started in 1990 and since then more then 2 million Indians have come on H1-b. Most have stayed. Look at Vikram Pandit of citigroup bank. He did a very poor job with that bank.
Doing programming is not the hallmark of intelligence.
Why are they giving away H1-b to Indian body shops? Why we even have an H1-B when Americans have no jobs.
Companies are employing Indian son H1-b while firing Americans. Is this America or India we are living in?
Di dIndi asupport America in Iraq? NO.
Did it support America in Afghanistan? NO.
Why should America have an H1-b most of which are taken by Indians who can't speak English properly?
We don't need H1-b in America.

B

February 13, 2009 01:55 PM

1) H1B Fees generate 2Billion a year(i guess most of it is spent on useless war in Iraq

2) Ban H1B for TARP companies and they will outsource it to TCS or INFOSYS!

3) 65,000 visas are issued every year for H1B and millions lost last year? Do the math? H1B the killer?

4) Most H1B violators are TCS, INFOSYS, and other indian companies? Why blame TARP companies?

H1B are not the cause.

February 16, 2009 01:36 AM

I think senate completely missed the point?
The amendment was on restricting H1B visa program. By doing so, Will it improve the US economy? I don’t understand how this would boost the economy and create opportunities to US workers. Instead this will indirectly help outsourcing, as a client who pays the employee will do so to get the maximum output for cheap.

Ex H1b

February 16, 2009 04:59 PM

My Freinds,
Does Americans have GUTS to give this country back to NATIVES (Red Indians)?
This country is made of immigrants and people like Vee should ask themselves where did their grand parents came from? We all are immigrants and work hard for the betterment of this country.
First Americans should start realizing that H1B jobs are lot less than Manufacturing Jobs which were Out Sourced to CHINA. Does AMERICANS like VEE have GUTS to day anything to Chinese who hold US DEBT more than 50%?
I love America and would like to suggest mis informed people like Vee that Wake up Dude.. Time to work hard. Stop that TV and Video game and start working hard on Books. Yes India has corruption given by British.. This country was discovered because Columbus also wanted to come to India (formerly said as Golden Bird) and discovered America.. hope you have read history. India was looted by West and Mughals but still its people have talent and patience and respect for other countries. We dont discriminate the way it is done in Western contries.

Vee, I can see the fear in your eyes about your inability to compete with indians or any immigrants.

Again If you have any guts.. Give this country back to Natives...They are real Americans and rest are all IMMIGRANTS...

Stop bashing H!B's who are very limited in numbers...

Think Global and be compettitive and DONT BE GREEDY by asking toomuch money for doing less work.

Take care
gaba

fred

February 16, 2009 07:53 PM

Send H1B visa workers back to india.
We don't need them here in US.

iBANKER

February 18, 2009 02:48 PM

FELLOW AMERICANS,
1) QUIT THE GREED AND FINGER POINTING

2) GET EDUCATED AND START COMPETING; FACE THE REALITIES OF GLOBALIZATION

3) DISSOLVING THE FOREIGN WORKER PROGRAM WILL HAVE NO POSITIVE IMPACT ON YOUR JOB OUTLOOK

4) DISSOLVING THE FOREIGN WORKER PROGRAM WILL CREATE SOCIETAL LOSSES THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT AFFORD

5) MAY THE BEST MAN WIN

6) ...AND VEE, YOU'RE A DISGRACE

C

February 19, 2009 11:43 PM


Stupid rednecks.

Americans need to be educated, not just in math, science and engineering, but also in their own laws.

I am a H1B worker in one of the banks that were forced to take TARP money.

I work very hard, but I am not a slave. I was not born in united states but I know and follow the American laws while I am in this country. I came to the country for grad school and hold a phd in science from MIT. I am on H1B but I am equally paid, I paied 50k+ fed tax for 2007, go figure. I pay all fed, local taxes and social securities which for me means that I am paying for some American's retirement.

My firm did not know I need H1B during the interview process. The discussion started after the offer is made. My firm showed to US immigration that I am paid well above the prevailing base salary determined by US immigration. My firmed paid US immigration $1000 fee for my application and will pay another fee soon for the extension of my H1B status.

I am very well respected in my group and contribute to the risk management practice of my firm.

The H1B restrictions will drive out many many well educated, well trained H1B workers to firms that are not subjected to such constraints. European banks, smaller private firms, hedge funds and other industries come into mind.

The cap on bonus will drive a lot of talented americans to European banks.

If this political stupidity is allowed to continue, the European banks that are not hit so hard, like Deutche Bank, Barklays and BNP will become the leader in the financial world in a few years. Ironically these are the ones that do not have enough talent to compete against US banks in the past.

Americans, want to see your TARP money turn a profit? Take advantage of the talents in the H1B programm as it is meant to do.

Want to save your auto industry? Dismantle the Auto Union. Do you dare?

PV

February 23, 2009 07:58 AM

Hey guys,
Remember, Between H1B and Offshoring, its a Zero Sum Game. There are no laws prohibiting offshoring; while there is already law & procedure to ensure that there's no American worker available before onboarding an H1B - Get the law enforced if there's laxity there.

When an H1B works here, s/he deepens the street economy by being a consumer in America, over time, buys a house, et al. S/he pays into social security and all taxes. Unless you are sure that the H1B's you want to unplug and drive away can be replaced by an out of job American, you'll only implode the American Economy further by this "eviction".

S. Crewed

February 23, 2009 04:49 PM

@PV - The facts refute your claim, and substantiate a direct relationship between H-1B and offshore outsourcing. First, seven of the top 10 recipients by numbers of H-1B visas are Indian offshoring firms. Second, about 10 Indian offshore outsourcers receive over 20,000 H-1B visas annually - about 24% of the "visa quota" and about 1/6th of the actual H-1Bs issued in recent years. Third, a substantial number of H-1Bs NOT directly employed in offshore outsourcing firms are involved in offshore outsourcing host company functions and/or offshore outsourcing entrepreneurial ventures. So it's not a "zero sum game" - the H-1B visa directly fuels and promotes offshore outsourcing.
As to your paragraph on "when an H-1B works here," you completely fail to point out any disadvantages, which in general has directly included increased citizen unemployment (the displaced employees immediately affected), unemployment payouts, decreased consumption, possible mortgage disruption/ nonpayment/ repossession, loss of tax revenue, and loss of social security revenue at a minimum. At worst it has included threats to one of the nation's major financial institutions: http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/01/29/fannie-mae-employee-accused-planting-malware-timebomb/
... and theft of $1 billion in IP of a major American corporation:
http://www.computerworld.com/comments/node/9114592
...

Dave

February 23, 2009 05:00 PM

The facts substantiate a direct relationship between H-1B and offshore outsourcing. First, seven of the top 10 recipients by numbers of H-1B visas are Indian offshoring firms. Second, about 10 Indian offshore outsourcers receive over 20,000 H-1B visas annually - about 24% of the "visa quota" and about 1/6th of the actual H-1Bs issued in recent years. Third, a substantial number of H-1Bs NOT directly employed in offshore outsourcing firms are involved in offshore outsourcing host company functions and/or offshore outsourcing entrepreneurial ventures. So it's not a "zero sum game" - the H-1B visa directly fuels and promotes offshore outsourcing.
As to your paragraph on "when an H-1B works here," you completely fail to point out any disadvantages, which in general has directly included increased citizen unemployment (the displaced employees immediately affected), unemployment payouts, decreased consumption, possible mortgage disruption/ nonpayment/ repossession, loss of tax revenue, and loss of social security revenue at a minimum. At worst it has included threats to one of the nation's major financial institutions: http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/01/29/fannie-mae-employee-accused-planting-malware-timebomb/
... and theft of $1 billion in IP of a major American corporation:
http://www.computerworld.com/comments/node/9114592

Michael

February 23, 2009 09:51 PM

Allowing for the free flow of labor between countries ensures that the most qualified people are hired for each job which has been the historic source of American greatness. Brain drain from the rest of the world has made the American economy and workforce as dynamic and productive as it is today. It is stupid of Americans to only want unskilled foreign labor. Competition breeds efficiency. If Americans don't want competition in their labor markets their long term prospects will just get worse. Companies will not be as competitive as they should as their management and workers are not as qualified as they should be. If companies are not competitive they won't hire more workers because they won't be able to generate as much revenue. They might even go out of business. This certainly won't help create jobs in America in the long run. This isn't about some foreigner "Stealing" American jobs. If an American is smarter or more qualified than a foreigner he will be hired. I wish that more people (and especially politicians) could get this through their head.

Siva

February 24, 2009 10:44 AM

Calling H1B workers “skilled labor” is not justifiable by any means. I have been in the IT industry for over 15 years. Most H1Bs fake their experience, lie on their resumes, their references are made up. I know people who never worked a day in their life in India, got a H1. They think they can get a job and somehow learn on the job. They get jobs just because they are cheaper.

These people take up our jobs and so arrogant to think America cannot survive with out them. Don’t bite the hand that feeds ya.

The process should be tightened and the number should be greatly reduced.

Of course there are some good H1b workers.

You have taken too many American jobs, via H1 and outsourcing, now stop wining when its your turn.

Andy Garcia

February 24, 2009 06:49 PM

Interesting.. another perspective.

H1B Cap and Education in the USA
Senators Chuck Grassley and the Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont are bringing in an amendment to the stimulus package which would stop any companies getting the stimulus support , if they are employing H1B's.
It's a good move by the Senators to secure the jobs of Americans. However a lot of international students come to USA for higher education. If the H1B's are banned, a lot of students who come to the US with the views of working after their education will have to go back and will not be able to fulfill their dreams.
So
• Are the senators who are bringing this amendment willing to make sure that the students know about the job situation before they pump in thousands of dollars in the US for their education.
• Are the Senators willing to let the students know that they should not dream of working in the US?
• Are the senators willing to bring in another amendment which forces all educational institutes in the US to clearly highlight this predicament to all the students before the students commit themselves to paying their fees and studying here?
• Are the senators willing to ensure that the education institutes clearly mention on their website that International students cannot work here after their education? I bet its not going to be easy nor will the senators be able to bring in this kind of an amendment.
And I can explain this through some number for people to understand easily
582,984 Number of International students enrolled in the US in year 2008
$ 25,000 Average tuition and living expenses that every student spends in the US over a year (On the lower side. Some of the undergraduate schools and graduate school expenses run into more than $ 60,000 per year
$ 14,574,600,000 Amount of money being pumped into the US economy by International students at a conservative rate (US Dollar 14.5 billion)
$ 7,287,300,000 Amount or revenue lost if 50% of the international students decide not to pursue an education in the US because they cannot work here after the education ($ 7.28 Billion)
$ 4,858,200,000 Even assuming that only 1/3 rd of the students decide not to pursue the education the revenue loss to the US economy from international students would be 4.85 Billion Dollars
Thus at conservative estimates the US economy is likely to lose $ 4.85 billion revenue every year just because they decide to cut down the H1B visas quota of 85,000 visas.
I am sure every international student will have this on her or his mind. Do the US senators have this on their mind too???
This kinds of an amendment to the stimulus package or an attempt to reduce H1B caps a big impact on individuals aspiring to work in the USA. However it also impacts the US economy specially the education sector. This might in turn impact the economy of USA and any adverse impacts are not good for the people. Have the senetor's thought of this???

read more or if the text here is not clear read at http://studentsforumusa.blogspot.com

Raghu

February 25, 2009 07:18 AM

What a Disgrace!!! I didn't believe that Americans can be so mean until I read this article.

Come on Guys !!!!
Do you really think that you became the dominating Economy on your own?
Do you think H1B or L1 Holders are responsible for this crisis?

Let me tell you.... Its time for you to realize the truth. I, as an Indian, can confidently say that,
"Let us Guys Come and Work in US". We will buy your Unpaid Homes, We will pay the Taxes to the Govt, We will work for 20 Hrs if not 24 Hrs per day.

BTW I had my H1B petition picked up in Lottery and I am supposed to go for the interview. But, Just thought of "Why should I do this for the sake of the country which made the whole World to suffer this disaster?" Now, I started my own small firm with a couple of young Graduates from College and just made a Profit of $70,000 last quarter....
I am very happy of my decision I made last year.

Raghu

Kate Jones

February 26, 2009 10:19 AM

I hope the indians who return home outcompete us with their incredible work ethic, skill, and education. I rpedict if we keep this up India will be a better place to live in 20 years. America is now a socialist state. Wait until you get the tax bill. Having lived in Europe they can't afford the water rates or gas. Can't wait til we get NHS next. We had maggots dropping onto the surgery rooms in our NHS hosital in England cause they coulnd't afford to deal with the pigeons dying in the air ducts of our 'new' victorian hospital. Why did the greatest country on earth decide to be like everyone else?

H1B-employee

February 26, 2009 10:13 PM

Here is a silly math.

Annually there are 65k H1B's issued.

Due to 65k H1B's around 5 US Consulates in India work round the clock for 5 days a week. Each counsulate employes around 20-25 American employees.

Due to 65k H1B's around 2000 American employees work hard in Back offices.

Due to 65k H1B's around 200 Americans get new job SSN/DHS/USCIS offices.

An expense of 3k is spent on each H1B as charges $195000000 is average April 1st rise for US govt.

Assuming an average house rent costs $1000 and a deposit of around $200 per house. Every year American housing gets $780000000 rise annually (incremental) and $13000000 as rise deposits.

Assuming an average spending expenses of 1k per month ( because a H1B guy/gal spends usually more than average american ) american economy is pumped with $780000000.

Assuming all half of the H1B folks are married and travel cost from India to USA is around $1200, American Airline industry makes around $117000000 + your taxi's and other services.

Assuming half the folks buy cars, american economy is pumped with 32.5k cars annually and considering 10k each car, Treasury makes around $39000000 for sales tax/year (incrementally annual). Now when you have so many cars, considering all are new drivers they pay $700 for 6 months as insurance which makes $45500000 for insurance companies (annually incremental). And then the local car mechanics gets jobs and rest of the surrounding industry buds.

Assuming an average H1B person earns 60k ( this is the least of least figure I picked up), $1365000000 are payed to taxes (incrementally because H1B folks keep coming in). Now for them you need a CPA and etc and etc and etc.

Every one of the H1B's buy a phone and a 2 year contract for his living. assuming $70 a plan per head telecom sector earns $54600000 annually incremental.

Assuming half of them buy internet connection, ISP's get an annual rise income of $7800000 ( considering $20 per month as internet bill)

My silly math made me think that annually 65k H1B's will gain America $3396900000 ($3.3 billion). And adds around 1000 jobs and helps millions of american living on them. I didnt consider the rest of the things like tourism which rakes billions by itself. Forget all this money shit, think of the braindrain. How much of the talent America gets in return. The cream of intellectuals you get can not be matched. The list is really big, these are silly figuers I just gave it to make some folks understand.

American's are loosing jobs ???? so are H1B's. Everyone is getting booted equally. 65k H1B's are given annually assuming 65k job positions are available. The hue and cry should be to say "give priority to American citizen's before giving jobs to H1B's". But don't forget the very first rule of H1B is an advertisement and a labour approval which says no American citizen's were available for this position.

Helloooo !!! I heard someone yelling H1B's are making american economy receed into grave recession ???? Helloooo !!!! anyone there ???

H1B-Req

February 26, 2009 10:17 PM

How many of you Americans are TRUE at heart ???? Those who are shouting against H1B's please abandon your Japanese and German made cars. Start buying American cars. Changes should be done at home first then yelling at the other guy saying he stole your bread.

Vee Bag

February 27, 2009 02:26 PM

*H1Bs are irrelevant in number
*You have always had to prove that you tried to hire domestically
*H1Bs are most expensive as they have to be paid at or above market rates + there are substantial legal costs (applications $1000, legal fees considerably more)
*H1Bs pay social security and Medicare despite not being eligible for either program
*H1Bs pay full federal and state tax without the ability to vote (does taxation without representation ring a bell?).

This is a protectionist move by the US right at the time they need relations with the rest of the world the most. US is the largest debtor nation in the world and is reliant on China et al. to provide funding for its already huge and rapidly increasing deficit. Protectionist moves like this will cause other countries to become scared of further measures such as capital controls. The result will be MUCH higher borrowing costs for the US on a MUCH higher balance. Vee (assuming that he has a job which I doubt) will have to pay for that straight out of his paycheck.

Vee Bag

February 27, 2009 02:27 PM

*H1Bs are irrelevant in number
*You have always had to prove that you tried to hire domestically
*H1Bs are most expensive as they have to be paid at or above market rates + there are substantial legal costs (applications $1000, legal fees considerably more)
*H1Bs pay social security and Medicare despite not being eligible for either program
*H1Bs pay full federal and state tax without the ability to vote (does taxation without representation ring a bell?).

This is a protectionist move by the US right at the time they need relations with the rest of the world the most. US is the largest debtor nation in the world and is reliant on China et al. to provide funding for its already huge and rapidly increasing deficit. Protectionist moves like this will cause other countries to become scared of further measures such as capital controls. The result will be MUCH higher borrowing costs for the US on a MUCH higher balance. Vee (assuming that he has a job which I doubt) will have to pay for that straight out of his paycheck.

Holly

March 1, 2009 04:05 PM

If you want to fix the economy, wouldn't you want to hire the best and the brightest?
If you aren't the best or the brightest, wouldn't it be fair that you loose your job in this economic downtown? This is what market-economy America stands for.
This protectionist provision is not only unfair, hypocritical, but also reciprocal to what the entire stimulus bill is trying to achieve.

borna

March 6, 2009 10:51 AM

I must say that Americans still need a wake up call and a bit more education. American nation, look into the poor quality of your education! Why do you think you need to import H1B Visa workers? Because they are all highly educated and skilled for jobs that Americans cannot do!
Now, let's blame those foreign capable and educated workers doing jobs that Americans are not able to do .. Whichhunt after skilled professionals after we build our 'beautiful' capitalism which enables us to buy with our money anything we want? And now as we bought what we don't have we still don't like it as it hit us back in the worse possible way? Well maybe our way is not that great after all as it is leaving us with a wider and wider gap between super reach (mostly crooks as we see from disastrous reality) and poorer and poorer ..

NS

March 6, 2009 01:41 PM

I am an Indian with an American citizenship. I totally agree with “Hiring American”. It’s been too long that this has gone unnoticed. We cannot fire good American workers and hire H1-Bs. Something also needs to be done with these Indian Outsourcing firms such as Infosys, Wipro, Cognizant, and Tata Consulting Services.

PATRIOT

March 7, 2009 02:28 AM

The H-1B program is a CHEAP labor socialist program to lower wages and facilitate off shoring. MOST H-1B's are hired by body shops to undercut American wages and to transfer knowledge overseas.

Look up the Infamous Cohen and Grigsby videos, or Read Norm Matloffs excellent article.

I'm an EX-Engineer who TRAINED his H-1B replacement worker.
American students who WOULD HAVE GONE INTO Tech work have decided that it is JUST NOT AN ECONOMICALLY VIABLE career.

Socialist programs like the H-1B fix prices and discourage production.

Supply and demand more H-1B = Lower wages everything else is just self serving BS.


WW3

March 9, 2009 05:36 PM

Thank you Senator Grassley.. now another reason to blame American for thier false liberty and give another reason for ppl to hate American and now we can have another reason to start a WW3

SN

March 9, 2009 05:56 PM

These fucking US retards are themselves to blame. They are "ARROGANT BASTARDS". Thats what europeans call them. They call themselves locals and others immigrants. Well at least those other immigrants have entered the US lawfully and have a visa stamped. These sons of bitches killed innocent native americans. They are the only ones who can call themselves locals.

CG

March 11, 2009 11:25 AM

Someone spoke of % of things created by South Asians in the US.
Well, since Microsoft outsourced, the new Operating systems have been problematic.
In fact any company that outsources jobs to India, know they will get back 30% less quality but think the $$ they think they save is worth it. Most companies pay at least $40 per hour for their offshore folks, that would employ and American at $90K a year. So how are they cheaper?
I have been in IT for 30 years and have never seen such poor quality and it is accepted.
US citizens in IT must work more overtime to fix the problems delivered by South Asian products. And they can never meet a deadline. The S Asains are pros at deflecting blame!

Global Citizen - 007

March 13, 2009 03:49 AM

Please be aware that for the last 25 years Americans have lost manufacturing jobs to China. Go to Shanghai and see for yourself. What is a SONY - US doing in China?. Besides this the Chinese makes look alikes stuffs of all things made in US and the world and that is a intellectual Propert eights abuse. Look at all this in terms of money. Manufacturing jobs, Manufacturing R/D , IPR violations, Patents violations have been been caused for the last 25 yrs. Can you attribute these to H1B's?
So fact - 1 : Thriving manufacturing economy in US was driven to low paid econmoies like China (90%) and Taiwan(10%).
Fact 2- IT Services were new and it wasn't a thriving job/employment opportunity. So blaming H1B workers who comes to US and work hard and pay taxes is not justified.

America - please understand the cause and then talk.
I do not say however that China was the cause of job recession in US. Americans resort to debt financing without proper certifications and that is the real cause. Please tackle the real cause.
Bye

US well wisher

March 13, 2009 04:44 AM

Please be aware that for the last 25 years Americans have lost manufacturing jobs to China. Go to Shanghai and see for yourself. What is a SONY - US doing in China?. Besides this the Chinese makes look alikes stuffs of all things made in US and the world and that is a intellectual Propert eights abuse. Look at all this in terms of money. Manufacturing jobs, Manufacturing R/D , IPR violations, Patents violations have been been caused for the last 25 yrs. Can you attribute these to H1B's?
So fact - 1 : Thriving manufacturing economy in US was driven to low paid econmoies like China (90%) and Taiwan(10%).
Fact 2- IT Services were new and it wasn't a thriving job/employment opportunity. So blaming H1B workers who comes to US and work hard and pay taxes is not justified.

America - please understand the cause and then talk.
I do not say however that China was the cause of job recession in US. Americans resort to debt financing without proper certifications and that is the real cause. Please tackle the real cause.
Bye

Straight Guy

March 14, 2009 11:05 PM

It appears many Americans forget their own laws. No wonder they act like retards. H1B Visas have a dual intent-by American Immigration Laws. Expectedly H1Bs evetually get a green card, but after going through the eye of a needle. Notwithstanding these, the most profitable new companies are started by these ex-H1Bs employ right here in the US the relations and fellow countrymen of their American anatagonists. America wake up! Let it be known that most H1Bs are more entrepreneurial than your US Company big wigs shipping jobs overseas. If only the laws will permit H1Bs to satr and own busineses, then the Ameicans, complainers that they are, will not have their retiremnts stolen by the thieves on Wall Street. So far we have not had any Madoffs, Stanfords and the theives at AIG identified as nothing other than natural Americans. Again America wake up!


Anonymous

March 16, 2009 12:59 PM

I think the senators need to work out how they want to work with India and Indian skilled workers. There are many people from many countries on visas that are being punished for something they have noting to do with.

Someone with H1

March 16, 2009 09:52 PM

To all of you haters. I am on H1b and got a lay off. You want to know what I have been finding for last couple of days.My resume is freaking awesome , many of you will not even come close to match my skills. That is why I was called from over seas because Americans don't have what I have. Do you get it ? I talked to a major bank who had a position open since December. They want to fill this but no one is able to pass the interview. Now I did but they want hire me because of the LAW.

So the way I see it I will probably move out of the country and go to Canada or Australia and make those Country rich. This is just one case now imagine all h1b moving out of the country. Good luck with that.

USA has never been a good worker that is why they rule the world. Because they are good at managing and being boss. You want to hire H1bs and manage them. That is how you will make money.

GOD "HELP" USA :P

bo

April 10, 2009 05:24 PM

hey Peter Pan there is two sides to it. Do you realize that the illegals also dont get back money and suffer greatly to get to this country and survive here.
At any case regarding the H1b visa holders. They are needed because certain skills are dominated by H1's. Unfortunately not too many Americans have been lead towards I.T. and clients don't want to pay and what they will pay the majority of the time is suited for H1s. meaning the rates are too low for an American.....

pasher

April 15, 2009 03:57 PM

My idea:

Every citizen over 18 has the right to sponsor a person for a 5-year resident visa, but can transfer that right to anyone else. This would create a secondary market for visas where companies and individuals can sponsor the ppl they think they need, but at the cost of paying someone to transfer their sponsorship right. At the very least, it would be a great mechanism for price discovery and transfer the public cost of immigration to its current private beneficiaries by compensating those with the birthright to be here.

5-yr resident visa, where you have the right to pay all taxes but are ineligible for benefits

leads to:

5-yr Green Card, where you pay all taxes and are eligible for some benefits

leads to:

Citizenship

Pete

April 15, 2009 09:32 PM

Ditto praise for Senator Grassley. I love to see about a 95% elimination of all H1b Visas and an end to outsourcing as well. I was in the IT industry as a technical writer and saw the ill-effects of H1b visa jobs. I had to retire early (by about 5 years) because of H1b's and outsourcing.

mamin

April 16, 2009 12:26 AM

U.S always wants to be the No 1 in the world even in such bad economic situation it almost can not hold. When U.S wants to lift its exports it entices other countries especially many developing countries to open the door and to hail products of made in America. this is so-called explanation "trade globalization". However when U.S finds that the globalization of human resources hurt its own domestic labor market, it compiles another story-amercian job for americans, american products for american stimulus plan. Hope it can achieve what it wishes. Hope U.S would keep to be the No 1 of the world.

Ed

April 17, 2009 03:50 PM

One question...who would you rather have operating on you? A overskilled, recognized FOREIGN Surgeon or an underskilled, local US Surgeon? I believe that jobs are a matter of qualifications, skills and interest in part of the employee. If I had a company I would like to have the BEST, even if that means Foreign,...Why settle for less? Just because its "American" work force?

Saniya

April 17, 2009 07:02 PM

Why INS and US Govt. permit the companies to file the case for H1-B employee if they have a caliber resources available in their own country, why do not you get back all the office in the US which have open in India's major cities like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Channi, Pune, Delhi and Chandigarh and many more.

How many IBM, Microsoft, Apple and hundreds of the companies office building in India, ask them to open in US and place only US citizen in the companies, they are begging in India and other Asian countries.

Existed H1B holder working in US also human beings, they have families, they left their jobs and get proposal from the American companies to work with them. What you guys mean to spoil their future and give them such a hard days to the entire dependants.

Its totally bull shit and un relevant that H1-B holder not paying SSN and Medicare, infect they do not have any benefit to pay the SSN and Medicare because they to go back their country one day and they would not get any benefit from it. I appeal SSN and Medicare must be exempted for H1-B except if they file their GC to stay permanently in US.

Check IRS records that how much SSN and other TAX amount paid by L1 and H1 as compare to US citizen and in other words the H1B workers pay taxes and even Social Security without any future benefit at all.

There are three major pillar in Human resources on what the entire US is standing; Doctor, Engineer and Attorney.
Check how many Indian actually help this country and how many years they spent in the service to the US community, they guys should be thankful to them.
This is 100% discrimination and harassment on the name of color, caste and country, we never expect from the Great America like this but this is only due to couple of negative approach politicians who do not have a knowledge of International Business Trade, Economics and Globalization but I understand they took a easiest subject is the school "Political Science " instead of science subject like economics and Business Management, infect I have a doubt they all the simple high school graduate, they celebrate their graduation party at their 10th class........graduation is a 16 years of study.

Why a US company is recruiting a H1 and L1 employee?
Why do not you hire talent and skilled US citizen employee?
Why do not you public announcement that they do not need any foreigner worker in US?
Why do not you check the IRS and other records before speak on not paying taxes and Social Security?
6) How many H-1B holder spending in this country ?

7) Isn't it fact the economy that a H-1B holder buy car, house, other living things and spend lot of money here?
8)Does a H-1B holder paying their rents to their American land lords?
9) Do you know how many houses has been buy only due to the H1-B holder to rent out by your US citizens?
10) STOP USING: Windows Operating System and all Microsoft product because all developed in Hyderabad, India?
11) Stop Using Google
12) Infect stop using all the software and computer?
I strongly recommended that you guys play with the lives, career and future of innocent people..................I would like to suggest you read on the currency bill
"In God We Trust"
Don't blame H-1B holders, they have equal right in this country infect on this planet and they are also human being. H1-B is a just status not qualification similarly citizen is status not a qualification.
If all of the above are not relevant, Go ahead, ask your constitutional maker to stop entry of H-1Bs. No problem at all.
Just Think if India Government take back all the resources in this country, what will be happened......................everything will be dump.

Visa Fraud Sparks Many Arrests Nationwide

April 30, 2009 11:11 PM

An ongoing federal probe into H-1B visa fraud leads to many arrests and the indictment of IT services firm Vision Systems Group The controversy over the H-1B visa program for cheap labor workers is heating up once again. Federal agents detained many in six states as part of a wide investigation into suspected visa fraud, those arrested are accused of fraudulently representing themselves or other workers in immigration documents. Besides the arrests, Vision Systems Group, an IT services firm based in South Plainfield, N.J., with a branch office in Coon Rapids, Iowa, was indicted on 10 federal counts, including conspiracy and mail fraud charges. The firm allegedly used fraudulent documents to bring H-1B visa workers into the U.S. The government is seeking the forfeiture of $7.4 million from Vision Systems that was gained through the alleged offenses. Five other technology companies, including Worldwide Software Services and Sana Systems in Clinton, Iowa, remain under investigation for document fraud, prosecutors said. "We are only at the tip of iceberg as to where this [investigation] leads.

Non-H1B-Holder

May 20, 2009 07:17 PM

The problem occurs because the U.S. immigration policy and the visa system are very antiquated but no one wants to overhaul them. Just like the U.S. tax code is 10,000 pages long and no one understands the whole thing, U.S. visa system is so old and excessively complicated that large corporations with the money to hire a lot of immigration lawyers can always figure out creative ways to abuse the system, particularly H-1B. What's needed is not to limit use of H-1B workers in contexts like this, but to overhaul the whole immigration policy. A new system is in order so that U.S. economy will continue to benefit tremendously as it has been from talented foreign workers who are willing to come over here, as they are more likely to create new business models and employment, while other non-skilled workers will also get fair opportunity to work for the employers they like, although the latter might require some reasonable restrictions to protect the U.S. labor force.

zakki

May 24, 2009 09:00 PM

Who were yelling "Global Economy" at their loudest? Americans! Why? They wanted to sell KFC, and McD in China, India. In return, Chinese,Indian co.s were allowed to bid for contracts, in competition with american companies. And who won? Indians! Why? Not because they are cheap, but they do have a quality in the work. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT! Why would corporations hire them if they were only cheap? Quality makes the business go, not cheap! Who are the most selfish and greedy people in the world? Americans. They don't care their own people are loosing jobs! Now they wake up!

Creating jobs in India is never a problem as long as americans continue to be greedy and lazy. All the small Dunkin Donuts, convenience stores, gas stations in NY, NJ and many 'Patel Motels' across the country, are now run by Indians or Mexicans. Why don't americans run it? because they can't make profit, they are too lazy to do the hard work.

And what about those ILLEGAL mexicans, who must be many times more in numbers than the H1B's. Let's see how much social security and taxes they pay vs. Indians? With all their crimes and drain on the budgets of the country's cities, americans simply cannot solve that problem.

Let's face it! Americans are so overwhelmed with greedy, selfish people, they can't run their own country anymore. They are not the world's greatest, they are whiny, incapable people who are getting beaten by the world and all they can do is complain and whine! They can't solve any problems. Maybe they should outsource it to China!! Why be socialist, when you can become outright communist?

hb1visacomment

June 30, 2009 09:36 AM

There have been years of relentless clamoring by the Americans about the need to reduce H1B visas and foreigners in America. Now that it has happened (as seen by the results of the H1B visa supply) the same should apply to Americans living in foreign countries. Companies in Singapore, Tokyo, Hong Kong, mainland China and London should all revisit the visas extended to Americans. Most locals in these countries working in IT or in financial institutions are all highly educated from the best schools in the world and have comparable skills to Americans. Furthermore, for the countries where a second language is necessary many Americans have not learned the local language whether it is Japanese or Chinese. (I have yet to hear of a H1B visa holder who cannot speak, read or write English). Job offers extended for Americans in all those countries should be rescinded and their visas should not be extended. Americans can all go home back to America and then take the jobs that have been vacated by the H1B visa holders. Unfortunately there are thousands of Americans working in the countries above so the positions vacated by the H1B visas will not be sufficient to cover them. I am sure all the Americans in America who are clamoring for the H1B visa program to be terminated and the TARP program can clearly explain the logic to their fellow Americans coming home. It should not be a one way street. If Americans treat foreign nationals in a certain way the way the respective foreign nations treat Americans when they are in a foreign country should be along the same lines. America is a great place to work for an ambitious person but so is the rest of the world and what seems to escape most Americans and their law makers is that there are thousands of Americans living and working in a foreign county on a work visa granted to them.

noname

October 1, 2009 01:48 AM

I'm strictly against H1 altogether. There the #1 reason why I can't find a stable job. H1's are not even as talented as American IT workers, I think that they should ban all h1's.

Shocked

November 19, 2009 04:38 PM

I am neither of Indian nor Chinese origin. I hail from the Caribbean and attended university here in the US.
I:
- pay taxes
- shop and stimulate the economy
- engage in philanthropy

So how is it that there is a target on my back for simply trying to get international experience. There is no need to belittle any country in this discussion. The bottom line is that the time is drawing nigh when we H1-Bs will no longer be welcome here in the US.

There is a great big world out there, with many continents that some of us have yet to explore professionally. If we are truly talented, firms from other countries will seek us out. We need not squabble over the crumbs that fell from the dinner table. In the end, we foreign workers will be just fine.

bryan

December 26, 2009 07:32 AM

This is ridiculous. They are doing the same thing that the German did to the Jewish. Scapegoating the minority - The H1 B Holders. I think all H1 B holders should flee the country and let america learn their lesson. Let some other country like Australia, London and Canada to be more competitive than America. Then, maybe they will learn their lessons. Let america be stupid and undone all its past achievement. Oh wait, they have already done that when they elected Bush for 8 years! How many more years of mistake can America truly suffers? Maybe until the annihilation of the entire race and chaos ensues? Just keep this up and soon, america won't need to worry about jobs going to foreigners anymore, because there won't be any jobs left at all once america is no longer competitive. It will all go to other western countries like Australia and Canada thanks to this stupid policy. Is it too hard to ask for people to see the entire picture rather than temporary and useless solutions?

Please remember what happened to Germany when they chose Jewish as their scapegoat for all their problems. In the end, they managed to annihilate the entire Jewish population in their country and many around the world. What happened afterwards? How strong is their country and economy now?

Please, people, you are all like puppets to these politicians. This is the information era. Try to get educated as much as possible. Don't give in to your emotions so much. Some things may sound logical, but it is not. Get the entire picture. Just like signing a contract, read the fine prints! Don't be surprised if the sudden expulsion of these immigrants will in effect cause sky high inflation all through america in years to come and in effect causes more people to lose jobs.

Displaced American

December 28, 2009 03:38 AM

When I grew up in America, I thought I will get a career , save up for a house and have a family. Then something changed while I was growing up. The government with direction from their corporate bosses had another dream. They asked how can we make the most amount profit with the least amount of cost. Then an idea like a light bulb went off in their heads, we dont need American workers. They rubbed their hands together in glee. The politicians sold the Americans the myth that we dont have enough American workers for those hi tech jobs or that Americans would never stoop to doing those low end menial jobs. We all bought it. Then it happened they came from all corners of the earth to work in America with the governments blessings. Now, I have no work,I have no house I have no dreams of a future, I am an American.

Thank you for your interest. This blog is no longer active.

 

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BusinessWeek writers peel back the curtain on the economy, business and money matters at the White House, Congress, and federal agencies.

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