India Criticizes New U.S. Outsourcing Fee

Posted by: Bruce Einhorn on August 10, 2010

In the latest battle over outsourcing, the Indian government has fired back at the U.S. Last week, U.S. senators unanimously passed a proposal to nearly double the fees on work visas for Indian IT companies sending workers to the U.S. Indian Trade Minister Anand Sharma has called the move “highly discriminatory” in a letter to his counterpart, U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk. As Bloomberg News reports, Sharma writes that “it is inexplicable to our companies to bear the cost of such a highly discriminatory law.”

Sharma must know he’s not going to get a sympathetic ear from Kirk or others in the Obama Administration. Even if they were interested in helping fight this proposal (which they’re probably not), they’re not going to go up against a Senate where there’s rare consensus about the need to sock it to Indian outsourcing companies by charging them more for H-1B or L-1 visas. Stock prices for Infosys, Tata Consultancy Services and Wipro took a hit yesterday as investors worried about the news. The big concern is not the new fee itself; even with the additional $2,000-per-person cost, Indian companies aren’t about to stop sending workers to the U.S. The bigger concern is where this leads. As Sudeshna Sen writes in today’s Economic Times, this is just the beginning, with other Western governments likely to follow the American lead. “So expect more of these measures, in more elaborate and less obvious ways, from every European market in [the] future,” Sen writes. “In a situation of high local unemployment, and political unrest about illegal immigration, new urban myths are being created: in Europe, US, UK, wherever. In the minds of the public, Indian IT workers on work permits, transfers or H1-Bs equate to jobs stolen from locals — and community and national resources in the host countries that these people use.”

Sen calls for Nasscom, the Indian IT industry’s lobbyist, to launch publicity campaigns to dispel those myths and educate Westerners about what Indian IT workers do. Interesting idea, but with unemployment rates so high, Nasscom would have to run quite a PR campaign to convince people that they’re wrong about outsourcing.

Reader Comments

Strategery

August 10, 2010 11:54 PM

The Indians can go %^&* themselves. While we're at it, let's slap a 40% tariff on all Chinese imports and deport the illegal aliens.

jake_leone

August 11, 2010 1:15 AM

All we want is an end to the discriminatory hiring practices of foreign IT companies.

We want an open and free hiring process that includes all qualified applicants.

Equal Opportunity for all U.S. workers.

Yet it is clear that some companies use the H-1b visa to support a closed hiring process, that discriminates against U.S. citizens.

The racist comments by Vineet Nayar (that U.S. citizens are "Unemployable"), a CEO at a top Indian IT company shows that racism is present in the hiring practices of foreign IT companies doing business in the United States.

This is a job Ad for a Java Programmer in New York City:

http://usa.lucidjobs.com/jobdetail/X5848172LD

The job Ad stipulates that only H-1b candidates will be considered for the position.

I guess "U.S. Citizen" is not the "Correct" ethnic origin to do "Java Programming" in New York City USA.

Why are U.S. citizens not being allowed to freely compete for this Java Programming job in New York City, USA???

Ravi

August 11, 2010 1:15 AM

This is an absolute misstep by US senate. What are they trying to achieve here? Restrict indian employees of outsourcing companies? Jobs are moving back to India at a rapid pace, this move by US senate will only increase the rate. With the influx of indian software professionals atleast the airline and hospitality industry is getting some business. With trying to strangle this movement of professionals, the US is going to lose more and gain nothing.

Newbie

August 11, 2010 2:12 AM

Gosh!! This shows how insecure America and Americans are. Use of protectionism to respond shows lack of ideas and innovativeness on part of Americans.

Anyway, Indians are sharp and quick learners. They will 'jugaad' their way around it.

Hmmmm

August 11, 2010 3:27 AM

Maybe congress read some of the comments that the Indian readers were leaving in the businessweek columns regarding "stupid, lazy americans" and finally decided to do something about it. ;)

123xyz

August 11, 2010 3:33 AM

US based companies love Indian IT contractors as it lowers IT costs via low cost Indian workers. So, they do displace local workers.

But, on the negative side, they do bring their caste mentalities with them as well.

Part of immigration policy is regulation of the rate new residence come over. This regulation rate can assist integration or create ghettos.

Today, the halls of IT departments are Indian ghettos complete with their homeland attitudes.

Steven

August 11, 2010 4:04 AM

India barring telecom industry from outsourcing its services to foreigners

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/proposal-to-bar-foreign-engineersrunning-telcos-networks/97496/on

fresher

August 11, 2010 4:48 AM

this step by the us govt may help americans in future. to have an immediate result us govt should ban all foreign consulting companies in US that use fake documents and resumes to sponsor H1 B. most of these companies force their consultants to fave resumes and have atleast 5 years on resume for a fresher..so chance for temp or perm jobs for us citizens right now..

sweet dyck willie

August 11, 2010 6:02 AM

Personally......I say @#*$'em. They don't respect us as Amerikkkans. And they damn sure don't respect people of color.

sagar

August 11, 2010 6:15 AM

we Indians should start boycotting the american products sold in India...
tit for tat is the policy

In_was

August 11, 2010 6:27 AM

Indian IT folks is a mixed bag. Some are brilliant, but most are just so so and are not organized. So where is all the benefit from all this IT???

Porn on Iphone?? Did IT help the economy that much?? Fuc$K no.

High Techer

August 11, 2010 7:14 AM

two comments;

1) Let's take a look at how the Government of India is treating US Companies importing products to India. The answer for the uninformed is that they are ruling with dictatorial edicts and unreasonable, unyielding demands.

2) I thought the concept of work VISA's was to bring in expertise that was not readily available in the US.

Flea

August 11, 2010 7:37 AM

Doubled? It should be quadrupled. In fact let's not let them in at all. 40% tariff on all China goods. And let’s invade Mexico and make it a state. I just solve three big problems.

HmmmStartegery

August 11, 2010 8:28 AM

And hopefully Congress will protect US jobs by closing imports of all kinds (workforce, goods...), yes US: let's "*%& everybody ouside the country!

Stone

August 11, 2010 8:45 AM

How many Americans are working for Sharma?

Insecurity

August 11, 2010 8:49 AM

The US should invest in helping Americans focus on higher education and developing skills which can compete in the global economy. This move clearly shows that the US government does not think the Americans can compete with the Indian professionals without giving them an unfair advantage.

India graduates more engineers than any other country and China creates more PhDs than any country. Education is the cornerstone in these two cultures. Children are taught at an early age that education must the focus at the highest level. Look at the medical and pharmacy schools in the US. The majority of the students are of Asian decent.

If Americans want to compete in the global economy, make college education mandatory and improve the school systems. It is amazing that parents in the US get excited about their child playing little league baseball and spend hours and days at games but are non existent at parent teacher meetings.

Education. Say it, speak it and believe it. It will change the course of the country.

dave

August 11, 2010 8:52 AM

Finally, it looks like a proposal that is actually looking out for the interest of the USA.

While we're at it:
1. restrict imports from countries that refuse to buy our manufactured goods, e.g. Japan, China, Korea
2. start charging rich countries for the free military that we've been providing, e.g. Japan, Germany, Korea
3. severely punish Americans who hire illegals.
4. refuse welfare benefits to able-bodied people, both legal and illegal.

Tom

August 11, 2010 9:31 AM

The outsourcing companies will just pass the fees on to their clients who will pass it on to the American consumers. This is just a populist bill passed for the upcoming elections.

LightsOut

August 11, 2010 9:36 AM

Absolutely ridiculous!!! If congress passes this bill to become a law, there will be a huge public outcry from not only indian population but companies such as google, microsoft, and ibm. Maybe this law right now might not affect the american based companies, but Indian H-1B and L-1 workers make a decent percentage of these companies and their reaction to this law will hopefully push such companies to take action.

As Ravi said above "jobs are moving back to india at a rapid pace" and this law will not only exponentially increase but also become deterimental to the US Economy, in the long run!

Meri Jaan

August 11, 2010 9:44 AM

It is time for the Indian government to increase taxes on US companies in business in India. The law for this tax will be based on the following
"Any product or service developed in the US should be taxed at 10% higher tax to offset the cost of legal work in case of business disputes.." that is fair considering legalcosts in the US is high.
Also there should be only Indian companies allowed for government contracts, except infrastructure. Even in case of Infrastructure the above 10% offset should be charged to cover legal costs.

It is a Joke!

August 11, 2010 10:01 AM

$2000- fee that Senator Schumer proposing is too meagre. These Greedy corporations will be happy to pay that and hire more H1Bs and L1s. I am tired of our "senselesss" politicains who do not know what is going on. I shoud say the fee should be $50,000/- per year. It should bite. And this should apply to all Corporations. If they really want the one and only expert in the world, let them pay this fee and get him/her. I am in the IT field, with over 15 years of experince and I can say that this field is completey "%$%$%" by the Consulting companies/placement agencis, who hire only H1Bs and L1s as they get a higer cut in profit! This has been going for years and Americans are getting screwed left and right. Mr. Schumer, bump up the fee to 50,000/ if you want see any impact, otherwise, it is simply an eye wash on the American people. Pl. do Something for US! Pl. propose amendments to add this to all corporations and bump up the fee 25 fold to 50,000/. Otherwise, it is just peanuts for these corporations! Write to your Senators demanding action.

P Revere

August 11, 2010 10:10 AM

As an IT professional who has worked extensively with h-1b holders, I can say with certainty that most of them are average at best and utterly incompetent at worst. Their attractive qualities are that they will accept much lower pay than Americans and they are dependent on their employers to stay in the country. Anyone that is in favor of this visa program is benefiting from this cheap labor in some way. You won't hear any American IT professionals asking for more cheap labor to flood into their career fields. It's a joke and it has to end.

jgo

August 11, 2010 10:23 AM

The same cross-border bodyshopping executives celebrated recently, over the $10,500 subsidy the Obama admin handed them in the form of exemption of guest-workers from FICA taxes. Now, they're going nuts over a fee that doesn't even cover the costs of processing visa applications and proper background investigations of applicants. So, when the playing field tilts more in their favor, that's great, but when it is moved a small fraction back toward balance, that's something to raise a huge fuss over. I hate to think what it would be like if they actually had to pay local US compensation rather than the 25% to 35% below them that the current "prevailing wage" standards allow.

KonfusedDesi

August 11, 2010 10:52 AM

Global talent movement is a 2 way street. The US IT giants send thousands of IT workers to India every year. India raises the business visa application fee quid pro quo for US businessmen. Hopefully, that will wake up the $%3^&

Hhmmmm

August 11, 2010 11:08 AM

Unbelievable that profits of a company depends on immigration policies of a sovereign nation!

Read this

August 11, 2010 11:18 AM

For all the Americans arguing for equal job opportunities.

It is the american cos that are hiring Indians...so don't blame the Indians. If you want things to change, start working harder, smarter at much competitive salaries to start with and then quickly moving up the ladder whence u prove urselves in the new globalized era!

Louis

August 11, 2010 11:37 AM

India is a valuable ally but India needs the US. India would be wise not to play US fears about failed state nuclear pakistan for more outsourcing. India needs the US for outsourcing, technology and ally against Chinese aggression and incursions into India's sphere of influence.

India is nearly the perfect middle child syndrome...it plays well between Russia, China, Europe and the US.

But like China and others, the US is sinking into an economy run on government and the debt financial industry (like Britain) and that could lead to collapse.

rebalancing imports with China and outsourcing with india is not a high price considering the alternative of losing a major partner like the US by asking to much of a proud but declining power.

Eric

August 11, 2010 11:38 AM

Why not simply restrict the number of visas?

Ed 'Too Tall' Jones

August 11, 2010 11:42 AM

H-1B/L-1 has long benefitted from the US immigration spotlight being on illegal aliens. Now with Indian outscourcers fighting the visa fee hike, in order to stave off further action, Joe/Jane American will learn more about this 'temporary non-immigrant' guest worker visa - whose holders refer to themselves as 'legal immigrants'!

This cannot be a good thing for the H-1B/L-1 visa program because the more Joe/Jane American learns about this, the angrier they become!

The proposal in question only applies to companies with more than 50 employees and with 50%+ of their work force in our country on 'temporary non-immigrant' H-1B guest worker visas.

However, with Indian outsourcing companies US operations usually manned with 90%+ worker bees from India - the proposal targets Indian outsourcers by default.

This raises the question; are Indian outsourcing companies immune from US anti discrimination laws? How is it possible that 90%+ of their US work forces come from India ONLY?

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) vice president Phiroz Vandrevala explains;

"Our wage per employee is 20-25 per cent less than US wages for a similar employee...Typically, for a TCS employee with five years experience, the annual cost to the company is $60,000-70,000, while a local American employee might cost $80,000-100,000... This (labour arbitrage) is a fact of doing work onsite. It's a fact that Indian IT companies have an advantage here and there's nothing wrong in that. The issue is that of getting workers in the US on wages far lower than the local wage rate."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/H-1B-visa-holders-paid-less-than-Americans/articleshow/1967955.cms#ixzz0wJP8Etxc

To be fair to the Indians, it should be pointed out that many US elites are active members of the H-1B/L-1 lobby as well.

Alan Greenspan;

"Our skilled wages are higher than anywhere in the world," he said. "If we open up a significant window for skilled workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end the concentration of income."

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/


Sameer

August 11, 2010 12:03 PM

Why this apathy towards Outsourcing companies? Look around and look back where the clothing industry has been outsourced, the elctronic industry is being outsourced and the list goes on. If the US is against outsourcing, bring back Nike, bring back the clothing industry, bring back the elctronics manufacturing industry and so on.

Fred Sato

August 11, 2010 12:15 PM

I am sure the Indian companies will find the loopholes in this, and an extra $2K is not going to hurt them. But it's interesting to note the author's comment that this might be just the tip of the iceberg, which is what's hopeful for the USA. The trade imbalances have been long in the tooth, and something got to change. How can anyone call it Free Trade when the USA is always at losing end? If there is some cost normalization in evaluating 'Free Trade', I think the world can find the American workers, can be very competitive.

Sai

August 11, 2010 12:17 PM

CEO Narayan Murthy. CEO Of Infosy. He is billionaire. His son marries another Billionaire. Who cares if US increase the H1B fees? He has 40000 Crores in company bank account. Infosy recruits 10000 Bodys per year. INfosys train them in same old C language for 1-2 years. They can develop 3rd world Open source android Operating System with the army of 10000 trainees, which helps the poor and uneducated in the world. But They dont do it. You know why, If all indians got educated infosys dont make money on them. As long india is illiterate they can make another 100 million dollars per month. They hate india being educated. Factories needs ports and water. Software companies need cheap labour with good education. Then why dont infosys opens their shop in rural areas? Where Cheap Labour available, Good education, Clean Air and Clearn water and no traffic? There are so many good cities like that. GUNTUR, VIJAYAWADA, HUBILEE, COMBATTORE, BARODA, PATNA etc. They rather wait 3 hours in carbon monoxide, But they dont move to clean cities. Infosys Chairmans father could not afford murthy to study in IIT. Now at least infosys should help IITs. Infosys can start venture capitalit Offices in all IITs. his son study in stanford. Narayan Murthy Sings american Anthem when he release quarterly results. He forgotten that he is living in india. Obviously he forgotten indias national anthem too. He never play it in his office. God Bless Illeterate india. Narayan Murthy with his capacity can start Indian National Toilet Movement. He can donate money for 10000 Toilets in all over cities. But he never do that. Most of the girls in indian cities they never drink water. Because they could not find toilets. This applies to Mr Narayan Murthy wife too. some one called infosys as ChopShop? its Ok they will wipe it with cloth on face. They love to stay keep wiping rather than making a product like IPhone Or Google or Android. Infosy can build small private quity. They can encourage their employees to be creative in developing applications for third world countries. If they do that infosys can become become NO 1 in cloud computing. But they never do that. They just want quick buck. Then eventually what happes in next 5 years? Either Amazon or Google will absord infosys. Why? Because lack of forsight, Lazyness. Iphone developed by 5 people. Infosys 100000 people, and 9999 new recruits what they doing?. reading same C language two times a day, watchign same infosys.com website 10 times a day. searchign H1B Job word in google 20 times a day. American Copmpetetiveness, Americans Creativity, Americans Forsight, No one call challenge either in near term or long term. Cloud Computing US NO 1, Mobile Phones US no 1, Apps Us No1, ERP, CRM, SAAS, PAAS, ASP you name it, thats US is NO 1 again and again and again...

Paul Carter

August 11, 2010 12:51 PM

It's time for US policy makers to acknowledge, at the very least to themselves, that the our "free trade" "global economy" experiment has been an absolute failure for American workers and ultimately for the American economy. Our country has gone from the world's larges creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation in just 30 years as a direct result of following the insane Reaganomics policies. There is no such thing as a "global economy;" we have the same thing we have always had national economies with nations trading with one another in ways that maximize their own economic interests. Only the US has had a free and open economy and everyone of its trading partners have taken advantage of that STUPID policy for their own national economic interest. The US should ALWAYS discriminate in favor of its own workers. Foreign owned companies in the US should be REQUIRED to use US worker and ONLY US workers. If that is unacceptable to them, let them go elsewhere. All trade with other countries should as a minimum be balanced and should seek to be in surplus. Trade is not a baseball, football or cricket game, and sports analogies are totally inappropriate. Every trade agreement we make should result in at least balance trade, and if the agreement advantages our trading partner at our expense we should withdraw.

Mark Hurd

August 11, 2010 12:53 PM

There is a reason I require Offshore personnel.

My big fat severance is bigger because of this!

Proud American

August 11, 2010 1:04 PM

I feel this is the right step for America. We are too often leaving the door open for foreign entities to conduct business with little or no respect. Perhaps the Indians should focus on work in their own country instead of coming here. Oh, and by the way, I work in IT and the Indian call centers are some of the worst I have ever experienced - seems like lots on bodies and only a couple who actually know what they’re doing. Sad, but true!

Proud American!

George

August 11, 2010 1:55 PM

While we look at this issue with a tunnel vision, there are some interesting facts on indirect growth of corporations across the west and east. Increase in sale of branded goods from the west is at 30% per annum. Food and consumer products are increasingly reaching the middle class indians. Harley davidson opens a chain of stores across India. BMW, Merc and high end car sales on the rise.

This is a very complex equation and suppressing movement of individuals and other such knee jerk and populist reactions by either parties is detrimental.

It makes a lot of sense for US to invest in future green technologies and regain its monopoly with its unique marketing and abundant intellectual resources. Info Tech like manufacturing as a discipline is goner as a stable job opportunity generator. It is India now and soon China, Brazil, Russia and other developing nations will take it away from it with more competent pricing and process discipline.

Indians should start worrying about it more as there are no fallback opportunities like the west has. A candle wont burn forever!!

San

August 11, 2010 2:11 PM

responce to jake_leone

Hay Jake why the hell your US companies are eager to outsource then?

It is in your interest as well.

Sid

August 11, 2010 2:32 PM

Free Trade made America what it is today. This is step in the reverse direction.

jimmy

August 11, 2010 2:45 PM

I Live in gurgaon city.In delhi (NCR)region.I work for a construction company.Lemme tell some of my american friends,first of all unemployment is at all time high in America, i do understand how it feels without job and money , however the fact is all american multinationals are coming in large hoards and want to set up their operations base in india ."Back Office space rental is all time high" in Gurgaon city.And it's increasing big time.I don't think so Mr Obama 's policies are working, outsourcing is happening in a big way.And it's only increasing forget about slowing.

A hardworking American

August 11, 2010 3:05 PM

This is great news for hard working Americans. This is not Protectionism but Patriotism.

vv

August 11, 2010 3:20 PM

@jake_leone
NYC Java Job is offered only for H1 b transfers ,but u dont need a H1b coz u r a citizen , no one is stopping someone from applying to the position.vendor all needs is a resource either h1 b or citizen ..blaw blaw

amit

August 11, 2010 3:44 PM

Indian IT companies are paying more then $1 Billion to beggar US each year with no SSN benefits to its employs.What a thief country US is.

Outsourcing is the largest wealth extractor of our time.

August 11, 2010 3:49 PM

Outsourcing is no different than slave labor. It does not work in the long-term for everyone. A long time ago companies used to import slave labor to their factories, but now technology has enabled them to bring the factory to the slaves. The "global" playing field will only be level when it is no longer cost effective for companies to hire labor in India, China and other popular outsourcing destinations. America needs to enforce a "VIRTUAL FOREIGN EMPLOYEE" tax on all US corporations that hire foreign employees to work on US based projects. If skilled engineers from foreign countries want to work for US corporations on product versions that will be sold to US consumers then allow these skilled foreign engineers do it from the US headquarters of these corporations not from their home countries such as India. Until a "virtual foreign employee tax" is enacted no one in America could compete with someone in India or China as a lot of people living in those countries could afford to live on $5,000 USD /yr. It's not a matter of skill or education those are cop out excuses the real decision about outsourcing is cost and payroll savings. Trust me I know I am a former Senior EVP of a large Fortune500 technology company and I was in charge of locating and managing the company's outsourcing partners.

Indian transplant

August 11, 2010 3:55 PM

IT is the only industry in the history of the US where replacement workers were brought in to the US and displaced US citizens, all under the pretense of not having qualified workers here, while it was really lower cost workers. These workers would accept any salary and working/living conditions(you know what I mean) because it was more than they would get back in India!!!

Indian companies have had free ride playing the immigration loopholes and bring workers to the US on B and J visas and billing them out to companies at H visa rates. It is time for US immigration and labour departments to crack down on these abuses.

Lets skip the indignation and tax any company that outsources their work to developing countries and use that money to train the "unqualified" worker here.

And lastly the stupid discussion in the press about IT folks returning to India, well these are mostly people who are being denied visa extensions and labor clearance. No IT worker with a choice of working in the US or India would choose India without extenuating circumstances.

Been here a long time and seen most of it, if not all.

Asian Dude

August 11, 2010 3:58 PM

@Strategery get to work instead of cursing out the Asians. We are smarter than you, work harder than you and as a result make more money than you. Do not be jealous of us because we went to grad school and worked our ass off to get an advanced degree. i am sure you great at video games which were built by us and designed by us..look around you depend on us for everything .....

blakaxe

August 11, 2010 4:11 PM

The United States will start seeing brain drain with this decision. We will no longer be able to attract top talent.

You should only target companies misusing the H1B visa. This is a big mistake.

Bob

August 11, 2010 4:30 PM

Strategery, thanks for the adult comment. It really added to the debate.

EngiNERD

August 11, 2010 4:31 PM

Remember: "The Goal is NOT to Hire an American worker."

www.youtube.com/programmersguild

suggested readings:
www.brightfuturejobs.org
www.noslaves.com
http://www.american-engineers-for-america.info/

and www.eiass.com/E-Newsletters.htm

just for starters

Bob

August 11, 2010 5:19 PM

America cannot be the only consumers for other countries. Its not sustainable. If China, India, and other countries keep relying on the US to help fund and employ, they will get a rude awakening.
Both China and India export more than consume goods compared to the US, either products or people.
The US needs money and if India wants US jobs, they will pay the fee, even if it means, lower wages for Indians.
Putting tarifs on China will never fly considering we are borrowing and get cheap goods from them. China will fall all by itself and when they do, everyone will feel the pain and it will be called a World Depression.

Aa

August 11, 2010 5:35 PM

Ok, so to stop illegal immigration, Senate wants to tax companies sending legal workers. Business works on profits, what if companies start shifting those jobs to India. It will be far cheaper for Indian companies also, they will have to pay less salary in India. US will loses all the tax which legal immigrants pay. For votes senators will pass any laws without realizing repercussion on people's life. This rule cannot do any good to unemployment, this is not a solution.

manbearpig

August 11, 2010 5:55 PM

@Jake_Leone: I alerted the DOL on the job posting you have refered to. Small steps.
Criminals should be treated as criminals.

Our lawmakers are being pig-headed as always. The fact that this was passed unanimously is clue to how severely pig-headed this is.

The outsourcing biggies (Infosys, Wipro, TCS etc) will just shift a higher percentage of their work offshore.
A typical H1-B from these firms stays in the US for about 3 years earning a gross of 65-80K. They pay income taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, contribute to social security, buy cars, rent apartments, buy electronics...
It is beneficial to America by many orders of magnitude to have that job done by an H1-B than to have it done offshore in India.

It is just plain stupid to trade a 3-year cash cow for a paltry 2000 bucks.

jay

August 11, 2010 7:18 PM

STrategery

GEt off your high horse and learn something other than HTML. or its simply go $$% yourself

jay

August 11, 2010 7:19 PM

I hate to tell you JAke boy , end of the day companies look out for themselves and their shareholders. So suck it up and move on

A Parent

August 11, 2010 7:28 PM

"dispel those myths and educate Westerners about what Indian IT workers do"? But we've seen with our own eyes what they do, in many cases. We've seen whole IT departments let go and replaced en masse with cheaper Indian labor. It's long past time to put a speed bump on the road to wage equilibrium with India.

indian

August 11, 2010 7:47 PM

Asian countries should retaliate by slapping a 100% duty on products imported from USA and companies owned by american.. start by slapping $20b fine on DOW chemicals for bhopal tragedy.

Programmer

August 11, 2010 8:06 PM

The programmers that come to the US on an H1-B visa at least get almost-prevailing wages, which makes it possible to compete with them. Scores of people working from their home countries for a fraction of a US salary affect us much more. To compete against them we need to be 10 times as efficient. Being tree times as efficient doesn't cut it anymore.

Pup

August 11, 2010 8:31 PM

You must admit there are many "stupid and lazy Americans". Especially in Washington DC.

Joe the Programmer

August 11, 2010 8:55 PM

Hey Newbie and Ravi... I don't see tens of thousands of Americans looking to get into India for jobs. Having worked for and along side of a couple of the Nasscom majors, I can personally attest to the fact that they are ACTIVELY looking to move these jobs to Bangalore, Mysore, Pune, Mangalore and other India-based locations. The contracts do NOT create any jobs here in the US, and the costs savings almost NEVER materialize. Specifically, offshore workers CAN'T think of solving problems without total direction from the client, and can't handle uncertainty or ambiguity. Companies are deluding themselves in hiring "global delivery firms" to achieve cost efficiencies.

L No tengo

August 11, 2010 9:17 PM

USA is a cuntry of entrepreneurs, if the readers consider themselfs as one or know what an entrepreneurs are, will realize that not all the time in the business world things will happned as plan. Any good business leader will understand this message, for the others just ask those entrepreneurs around.

Prashant Ponde

August 11, 2010 9:35 PM

I dont know if Obama does or doesnt understand its going to be disastrous for their own american business firms who will continue to struggle to perform on margins due to high cost of local labor. Dont be surprised to see American firms who used to save some bucks on outsourcing, but now getting harder hit on their balance sheets with this decision.

return2I

August 11, 2010 9:57 PM

As an unemployed permanent resident, I am not sure how this will impact companies in the long-term. It okay to keep adding fees to legal residents and forget about illegal border crossing folks who don't pay taxes or social security.

Pack bags and head east, land of new opportunity and gold rush. Hell with this BS

Guru

August 11, 2010 11:03 PM

Only 15% of the graduates in the US were majoring in science, math, computer science and engineering in the year 2007.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/education/graduates-science-math-computer-science-engineerin.aspx

This is the real reason for Indians domonating the software industry.

Too meagre!

August 11, 2010 11:23 PM

Our Politicians dont't get it! $2000- fee that Senator Schumer proposing is too meagre. These Greedy corporations will be happy to pay that and hire more H1Bs and L1s. I am tired of our "senselesss" politicains who do not know what is going on. I shoud say the fee should be $50,000/- per year. It should bite. And this should apply to all Corporations. If they really want the one and only expert in the world, let them pay this fee and get him/her. I am in the IT field, with over 15 years of experince and I can say that this field is completey "%$%$%" by the Consulting companies/placement agencis, who hire only H1Bs and L1s as they get a higer cut in profit! This has been going for years and Americans are getting screwed left and right. Mr. Schumer, bump up the fee to 50,000/ if you want see any impact, otherwise, it is simply an eye wash on the American people. Pl. do Something for US! Pl. propose amendments to add this to all corporations and bump up the fee 25 fold to 50,000/. Otherwise, it is just peanuts for these corporations!

Johnston

August 12, 2010 12:57 AM

hahaha... there are so many illiterate foreigners attempting to convey their concerns. Learn your english first before you make fools of yourselves.

Yiannis

August 12, 2010 1:32 AM

Look, India is a hard market to trade and do business with. We are Americans looking to help our people, it is not our right to help India make more money, you can do that yourself. Start using birth control and maybe that will help your country as you are spiraling out of population control

Joe

August 12, 2010 1:39 AM

When our Esteemed MBAs in Finance are only engaged in Wage arbitration, it does not matter, how good the education system is, because the finance guys will be able to find someone cheaper somewhere else. I work at such a company, and it is amazing how we have achieved "Scale" while absolutely screwing everything up and increasing costs. But on paper it looks good. In the past it took 1 us person to do something at 80/hr. Now with Offshoring it takes 4 folks to do the same thing at 25/hr. You go figure. BUT it is 25/hr. But its 25/hr. Nobady looks at that it is now taking 4 hrs to do the 1 hr task. That metric is unfortunately not there.

It is amazing how incompetent IT senior management is in this country. FIX that, before we blame India or China. US mangement is the most selfish & self centered in the world. All of us are in 401K plans vote with your shares to throw these *&^%s out.

So folks fix our local C Level management. Anyone will take advantage of us if we let them. If I was in India's or China's shoes, I would do the same. We need to change our corporate leadership here.

alex

August 12, 2010 1:45 AM

At a $ 2000 increase I'm not sure what is fuss. But I guess in some small way it will stop abuse of the H1/L1 visas. The idea of work visas was well intentioned but a lot of these Indian companies abuse the law and abuse the folks brought in under these categories.

Some of the comments here are way too passionate and border on being racist. The fact is there is abuse of a system and something needs to be done to stop this.

Veejay

August 12, 2010 2:32 AM

A good argument for India buying the MiG-29 multi-role combat aircraft (126 of them) to complement its Sukhoi Su-30 front-line fighters, rather than any old rubbish offered by the Americans.

Ann

August 12, 2010 8:43 AM

I completely agree with Stretegery: they can go and &^$%#* themselves. They always pull the discrimination card yet no foreigner can own a company in India. How discriminatory is that? Foreign companies HAVE to put an Indian in the helm if he wants to operate in India, with overwhelming ownership risking his entire company.

The media has created a completely false image of "quality" Indian labor. I spent over 8 years in India on a work program and know from the depth of my experience how untrue that is. India's 'quality' labor is so small if the government realized the truth they would completely plug the hole on this awful law that allows cheap labor to come here. What we are doing, is destroying the quality work ethics that the U.S. has been known for - now gone downhills with third world immigrants taking jobs for a fraction of the salary and not doing a good job either.

Germany maintains as a huge export power because of the excellent reputation Germany has in quality and business ethics. Imagine if Germany would allow Chinese imports and Indian labor to replace their own! The country would soon fall in shambles, like this one has. Bush has done the most destructive decisions for this country ever seen with any leadership and how many years it will take us to dig our way out of this hole is to be seen.

Ever since the government approved outsourcing, chinese goods and cheap-labor to enter this country, the economy has kept plunging. This is why the entire country has turned White House-hostile.

Mary

August 12, 2010 8:48 AM

Neither the US or Europe has ANY obligations to bend backwards to India or any other third world country who sees our leadership weakness as a source for mass-immigration of skills they don't even possess.

In India you can acquire a fully valid MBA from one of the best Universities in the country - if you have enough money. And you don't even have to attend the full term!
That's how bad the situation is over there. We don't need immigrants or workers from nations where even government verification and statistics are fabricated and falsified.

McIntyre

August 12, 2010 9:00 AM

Asian Dude: I just left New York after a year in the city. Interesting that over 80% of the "smart" Indians I spoke to were all unemployed!
Very few had any advanced skills at all. It shows that a visa scam is operating somewhere to bring in people from the third world who don't qualify to come here. We need exchange of jobs and labor with Canada and Europe, who has been on par with us, not with poor backward nations where they don't even know how to mend roads and have an ample supply of running water!

With all the "superior" intelligence you assume to have you all want to come here (why?), and you have accomplished nothing in your own country to develop anything of significance. You don't even know how to handle basic social responsibilities or improvements!

Please, I know Asia very well. We don't need any Asian labor or products here. They only pull our own quality and ethics down to a low level, which is not suitable for our society. Before dealing with Asia and opening too many avenues for Asia to come here, this was an incredibly successful nation. Poverty only stuck with acceptance of excess immigration, labor, and products from the wrong countries.

khar

August 12, 2010 9:16 AM

The US government should have done this earlier, way earlier. It's a little too late and the fees is a little too low. By the way, I am an Asian. So you might wonder why I am advocating something that sort of punish asians. Here is my reason; Most asians come from a land where there's no justice, there's so much corruption, so much control of elites and so much greed in the part of those elites. Most of the world most corrupt and unequal societies are in Asia-specifically India and China and other buddhist, Hindu and muslim countries. Only a handful of elites get a chance to come to U S and work and when they do, for money, they will do anything-smuggle in illegal, pay no taxes, do not follow the law of the land, take advantage of american hospitality just to name a few. Some talk about americans being uncompetitive. Well, all the best university in the world are in US. Not so good state college in US is probably way better than the best schools in India or China. Most universities and colleges are pretty much copy-cats of American colleges. All the IT jobs and computer jobs are invented by Americans. If they can't compete with idiots from fourth world India, who can??????

Bart

August 12, 2010 9:27 AM

After 10 years of being lectured by H-1Bs, everybody in America is tired of the H-1's nasty, condescending, and contemptuous attitude towards American workers. Good riddance to them.

DA

August 12, 2010 9:30 AM

Dwell on this fact

- American IT companies (Note ONLY IT Companies) earn more than 1.5 Bn USD in revenues in India, far far far more than all the Indian IT companies put together. Note this is revenue earned from Indian Domestic Market only
- Apart from this they employee close to .5 Mn employee to deliver project across the world. Make your own estimate of USD earned

All this profit flow back in United States of America.

Lets have a discriminatory tax on the US IT firm in India and see who would lose more!

indian_programmer

August 12, 2010 9:58 AM

I am an Indian programmer and have to agree with the aspects that "Joe the Programmer" has mentioned wrt the inefficiencies in the "global delivery firm" model. But I don't think the increase in the fees is going help address these inefficiencies.

I think Your people in DC need to carefully draft a bill that targets large scale outsourcing of whole chunks of business processes, esp when the process was in fact initially established by talent within the country(USA).

India and USA have time zone diff of around 12 hrs. While it might make senses in outsource work that might be done during the night(monitoring overnight batch runs etc), what is point in firing an American who works in the morning and making an Indian work on the same stuff in the night?

I don't think there is anything wrong if an American start-up hired an Indian programmer if they really found him/her to be good addition to their team. The same also applies for American talent and and Indian start-ups(there are quite few of those too)

I don't think Ayn Rand ever suggested a system where short term greed destroyed the prospects of an efficient and mutually beneficial future.

NoH1B

August 12, 2010 10:21 AM

Indian workers should work in their country so that they can stop whining.
Then we can have our jobs back.

Shah

August 12, 2010 12:42 PM

Very few American really understand what outsourcing/H1B really mean and they the niche educated elite group of people. Mostly just feel that H1B's are taking American job, companies saves tons of money by outsourcing and invest it in new business venture locally. It creates more jobs and opportunities in America and sustain it to number one position. Immigrants plays critical role in America's growth and prosperity,
Google, Yahoo are two prominent examples of the companies founded by H1B's. We have to be foster competitiveness rather then angst against legal migrants.

John80224

August 12, 2010 12:59 PM

Let’s just restart the USSR, help Iran’s nuke program, provoke China and have all nuclear powers launch all they’ve got. Sheesh people, stop the insanity. As with most things, this is a minor impact that has more polarizing effect than bottom line impact. No, India should not impose a 100% tariff on EVERYTHING in overreaction to this law that will still probably not have any more impact than the cost of a flight to get said H1-b onshore.

Legally, the (slightly) affected companies have been operating on a lack of oversight for over a decade. There is no shortage of labor in the fields in which they play. This is little more than a political acknowledgement that some semblance of sovereignty might be legislated.

Assuming this discussion is more around the “what-ifs” of where this might lead, let’s face it: very few of these what-if scenarios ever come true. This is HIGHLY unlikely to lead to the end of skilled-labor visas.

Let’s then say that what-ifs do come true and all IT visas are dropped. The sky won’t fall. Some jobs will move, some companies will hire US liaisons to do what is currently done by the on-shored visas and some will chuck the challenges and smaller than expected benefit and hire on-shore. Pressures of globalization may still continue to stagnate wages or we may find that these massive savings aren’t as real as the bean-counters envision. About the only certainty in economics is that in a multi-billion person economy, there are simply too many factors to so clearly state one thing or the other will be the savior or downfall of the world.

As to education, this is a small but positive step. Education in the US is slowly turning into little more than a nice idea because the realities are pretty staggering. Why get tens of thousands in debt training for a field that has decreasing wages and is so easily outsourced? Why not instead learn a hands-on trade that cannot be offshored? It is hard to sweat pipes in Cincinnati from Bangalore after all.

I’d very much like to see education be the cure, but thought-based jobs are most susceptible to off-shoring. Meanwhile your competition in these countries is paying a fraction of what you are for an education with fewer decent paying alternatives to pull them away. Until you find a way to return any sense of security, education in STEM disciplines is becoming more liability than liberator.

John80224

August 12, 2010 1:21 PM

@ blakaxe, the abusers are exactly who is being targeted. IT companies that bring on H1-b’s to support many more offshored jobs are driving a growing surplus of existing labor. This is PURELY about (perceived?) cost savings—not about filling gaps that simply don’t exist.

Jen. A. Schneider

August 12, 2010 2:50 PM

It's time to put an end to this H1-B and especially the L1 visa program. We need to let these "highly skilled", "best and brightest" people go back to their native country to help 3rd world countries like India, China, Russia, Brazil and Mexico pull themselves out of poverty. Otherwise, the world will continue to develop lopsidedly. The US can't afford to let in all of the 3rd world.

We could also use some competition. America does not shrink from competition. We will rise up as a people when we are called to the challenge, by educating ourselves not by importing foreign workers. This mass importation of foreign workers from India, Phillipines and Mexico is dragging down our morales and breaking down our social cohesion.

It's time to fix our completely broken immigration system and put a moratoriam on chain migration and anchor babies from Mexico, Asia, Middle East, Africa, Latin America. Enough and is enough. America is bankrupt by having to be policemen to the world and sugar daddy to all of the 3rd world.

PorkEatingCrusader

August 12, 2010 4:31 PM

I work in IT - most indians I've met can't code their way out of a paper bag. They are marginal technolgists, and IT companies with indians at the head are cultural nepotistic hirers. They're not hiring better people, they are helping themselves. In india its all cheap labor and imitation not innovation. They send their smelling masses to the US to leech off our body and then squeal and complain when the host wakes up a little as to whats going on.

f%^k them

In_the_trenches

August 12, 2010 4:58 PM

Having worked with outsourcing companies and having managed both US and Indian IT staff, I can say that Indian IT professionals are hard working but hard word does not make up for the "average at best" quality of work. Being Indian myself and having worked in IT for over 20 years I can say without a doubt that US IT staffs are better qualified that their Indian counterparts. The fact of the matter remains that US corporations are willing to put up with poor quality if the price is love enough.

Dude

August 12, 2010 5:06 PM

Indians exclusively prey on the US because of the language. I wonder how Germany, Sweden, France,Japan..ec. manage to survive without that "brilliant talent".

And yes, they have a distinctively different culture. When you get told "yes, sir, I'll be finished in 3 days" and you hear that for 3 month you know what I mean.

John80224

August 12, 2010 6:00 PM

@Read this, I read that.

I spent 17 years proving myself only to be cut off mid-career by a nepotistic, former H1-b visa holder who has shipped most of the jobs he could off to India. Even so, I do not blame all of India. What I do challenge is why the sovereignty of a nation is supposed to be at the whim of others? Except for enforcing a count, the law that allows most of the entry into the nation has been laughably tossed aside by American, Indian and any other country’s companies that can get in on it.

I don’t call for rampant protectionism, but at the same time just as Indian government represents Indian interests, the US gov’t does the same for ours. Just as lack of controls on companies have led to serious economic issues that have rippled across the globe, creating a free-for-all that drives our best and brightest to other countries or into plumbing careers will drag down one of the primary economies on which the world seems to be feeding. Eventually things would stabilize, but I’m willing to take a chance on seeing where the US goes while keeping some reins on the process over giving into this sense of entitlement that the world appears to have to our shores.

Husin O'Bama

August 12, 2010 10:59 PM

Better to Tax the windfall profits of companies from outsourcing than placing the fees burden on poor workers.

sreeji

August 13, 2010 1:11 AM

I am not sure why the Indians are complaining -

1) This is going to increase the cost of American corporations and make their products costlier than they already are.

2) By implication, this will make Chinese, Indian and European companies more competitive compared to American firms and the latter will lose marketshare.

3) The smart American corporations will be forced to move as much of their IT functions outside US borders as possible, so that they can do it as cheaply as their non-US competitiors. This is likely to benefit India.


The negative side is very limited : The risk of Indians becoming more expensive because of a $2,000 annual fee is very remote since we are talking about salaries in the range of $60,000 and upwards per year.

Agent Smith

August 13, 2010 2:27 AM

China, India and Japan, have long sold us their goods but rarely buy our goods,hence an unfair advantage.Some Of the H1B people are not that good but cheap. As someone has already said how many foreigners get to work in India/China/Japan as IT professionals?

Njoro

August 13, 2010 5:46 AM

American politicians are really missing the point about globalization. Did you all know most foreign owned companies are no longer concentrating on gaining a market share within the US? The Emerging Markets BRICA(Brazil, Russia India, China & Africa) is where most of the this companies are concentrating on. America is no longer a leader in manufacturing but has become a big consumer of countries commodities,compare the population of American & that of BRICA countries
America has to learn to start negotiating rather then creating new rules & regulations for anything that does not work in its favour

What a Joke!

August 13, 2010 7:48 AM

Put a hefty fine on all Coporations that hire H1Bs and L1s. Jobs in America is for Americans. Also, ban these bodyshops as they prefer H1Bs and L1s over Americans. To them, an H1B is like a bonded labor and they get a much higher cut. Write to your politicinas, demanding action. U may use this link,
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

John80224

August 13, 2010 8:52 AM

@Read this, I read that.

I spent 17 years proving myself only to be cut off mid-career by a nepotistic, former H1-b visa holder who has shipped most of the jobs he could off to India. Even so, I do not blame all of India. What I do challenge is why the sovereignty of a nation is supposed to be at the whim of others? Except for enforcing a count, the law that allows most of the entry into the nation has been laughably tossed aside by American, Indian and any other country’s companies that can get in on it.

I don’t call for rampant protectionism, but at the same time just as Indian government represents Indian interests, the US gov’t does the same for ours. Just as lack of controls on companies have led to serious economic issues that have rippled across the globe, creating a free-for-all that drives our best and brightest to other countries or into plumbing careers will drag down one of the primary economies on which the world seems to be feeding. Eventually things would stabilize, but I’m willing to take a chance on seeing where the US goes while keeping some reins on the process over giving into this sense of entitlement that the world appears to have to our shores.

Kedar

August 13, 2010 10:39 AM

I see increase in visa fee similar to 'Anti-dumping duty'. This is routine thing and US has every right to do so. All countries will do the same thing to protect their own interest. Protest from Indian government is also natural as they are looking at their own interest.

A bit off topic - Indians working in US is indirectly benefitted to many US companies. Some 15 years back, non one in India heard about McDonals, Pizza Hut or Subway. Also everyone was driving Japanese car and there was no market for Ford and GM. But with H1B who developed taste for American food and cars, are demanding the same thing back in India. Today, these Americal food companies, beverages companies are doing roaring business in India. Ford and GM are selling well. There is big push on allowing Walmart to India. So it is not really bad.

In bigger scheme of things, India and US have many things in common (and many enemies in common). These trade issues will be always there.

Pilau

August 13, 2010 3:49 PM

From the comments from Indians they have their self interest first and not the US. Thank you corporate america and thank you Indians for showing your true colors.

kelly grant

August 13, 2010 7:06 PM

if indians dont like the fee, then go back to india. our unemployment rate is high. We dont knew cheap labor competing in our economy

A Parent

August 13, 2010 8:39 PM

Can someone clarify something? We're talking about an additional 2,000 dollars for issuance of a 6-year visa, is that right? So are we really talking about $333.33 per year per visa? Is that going to keep companies from hiring the supposed best and brightest?

fresher

August 13, 2010 8:49 PM

Appreciate some of the comments from indians.. myself an indian totally agree that a few percent are exceptional but most are below average and spoiling india's name.. brain drain has started long back...most of the IIT students are staying back in india.. what is left in US is .. God help America!!

sridhar reddy

August 13, 2010 9:32 PM

Obama administrations should be commended for what they have done in this area.

Let the chop shops face the consequences. I wish that American companies are levied a flat 25% tax on the payroll for every H1B visa to make a point.

How many Americans got jobs in India and China over the last 5 years?

war lover

August 13, 2010 10:55 PM

Don't you think U.S. should declare war on India and take over!!!Make it a state of the union. Joking- of course. How stupid.

EngiNERD

August 14, 2010 12:03 AM

And there is now even protest songs!!!
http://www.complex-numbers.com/home/dog-one.html

Lap of Luxury (The H-1B Song) http://www.complex-numbers.com/home/dog-one.html


For more on the H-1b try reading:
GAMING THE SYSTEM - H-1b Report
http://www.dpeaflcio.org/pdf/Gaming_the_System_Report_.pdf


“Skill Shortage” Racket Driving Americans From Science And Engineering http://www.vdare..com/roberts/071204_america.htm


H-1b Unemployment Visa Scam Jobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgYtU3qVKsk

ExH1

August 14, 2010 1:55 AM

If H1B's have to charge the hrs they worked, then US CIO's, VP's won't make their bonuses.
H1B company knew exactly how to make these H1B's work and not bill more than 40 hrs.
Legal way of exploiting American workers,H1B's and Offshore workers.

Ace

August 14, 2010 4:33 AM

IMHO the outsourcing companies have definitely taken advantage of our current US immigration policies and this practice should be curtailed. The $2000 tax however, is just a band aid and just too discriminatory - we need to figure out what kind of national immigration policy we need and what we do not want.

There is however a much bigger issue at stake here.

When the initial H1-B caps were put in place, what happened? Outsourcing companies filed the H1 quota's and made it increasingly difficult for US companies, to bring or retain the best and the brightest talent into the US. These firms then started opening up offices in India and other low cost locations. Once this model worked, entire US offices shifted offshore en masse- and the jobs (and taxes) left the US. Innovation subsequently started to sprout up all over the world - eroding US's global innovation and job creation dominance.

Our immigration policies directly effects business decisions, labor force quality, jobs and US job creation. Frankly taxing the H1 visa is pointless, it just more government BS - and ultimately will drive jobs further away from the US (more incentive to do things overseas as is already happening).

In the end analysis, we need to figure out how to get and retain the worlds best and brightest. We need to focus on being and articulating to the world why we are the best and demonstrating it to the world. We need to start producing things in the US. We need to ensure that the vast proportion of our workers produce things in firms that pay taxes, i.e. stop making everyone a government employee. This way our government would have a better shot of affording the benefits we expect.

To hell with all this discrimination - lets just fix the mess we have put ourselves into and stop criticizing others.

Ace

P.S. As for all you complainers - wake up! - everyone needs to prove the value they bring to the table. We all work in a global economy. Today its India, tomorrow its Brazil - it really does not matter. If India is so bad as many of you claim, then show why you are the better value. If you can't, then there's a good chance that you do not provide the value you claim and you need to retrain. But for most of you complainers - its always much easier to criticize others

No Vote for OBAMA!

August 14, 2010 8:44 AM

Our Politicians are ruining this country! They care only about Corporations and their campaign contributions. We must STOP H1B and L1 visa programs altleat till the unemployment drops below 4%. Also, the fee for employing an H1B or L1 for a Job in USA, must be 50K/ year or more. What is 2K ? All these bodyshop companies in the IT field must be fined heavily for seeking non - Citizens. As they get a bettr cut in employing an H1B or an L1, they discriminate against Citizens! Our Politicians do not get it. VOTE all of them out of Office. We need a third party who will care about this Country and its citizens.

tbsan

August 14, 2010 11:03 AM

USA has a 10% unemployment rate. If we weren't so darn lazy and we focused on study and hard work instead of entitlements we would not need to import the labor that *has* worked hard to learn basic IT and customer support skills.

A Parent

August 14, 2010 4:10 PM

Here is the basis of the Indian cost advantage:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/photo-gallery/gallery-e6frf94x-1225826066463?page=1

This is why we reject the "comparative advantage" of India's low-cost society. Protectionism is always harmful, but sometimes it's the lesser harm. The greater harm would be to become like India, which is what will happen if merge our economy with India's.

2H1B or not 2H1B

August 14, 2010 5:25 PM

Well, let's not be too short-sighted here...

Who benefits from cheap labor "in the US"? The American companies hiring them. And why they would want this is obvious...lowest labor costs mean higher profits. Higher profits means higher share prices and helps enrich Wall $treet and the top execs who own most of the shares. Why we have such a materialistic system in place is probably the root of the issue, but that's another discussion...

Now what would the American corporations do if you make it difficult to get cheap H1B labor in the US? Hmm...hire them directly in countries like India instead so you don't have to deal with difficult immigration laws. Do your research, every major US IT company has presence in India. Has the situation gotten better or worse now?

Now perhaps I didn't read this correctly...this fee is "only for Indian IT companies" and not for other foreign IT companies? Well, that's clearly discriminatory but INS laws have been biased before --- it's nothing new.

The world is getting flatter and more competitive. One has to reinvent oneself, move up the value chain, be more creative or else face the inevitable.

- an "indian" among many "chiefs"

Bond, Jame Bond

August 14, 2010 6:15 PM

Our Politicians and Greedy executves are '%^&*&*#' up this country and its citizens. This is simply unbeleivable. Since, Clinton's NAFTA, we are loosing jobs faster and faster. Only the corporations and executives getting richer and richer. Average American is loosing jobs and our middle class is disappering faster. A 2K fee will do nothing to discourage the hiring of H1Bs and L1s. At this time of 9.5%, if anybody wants to hire an H1B or L1, they MUST be forced to pay a 50K, fee not a 2K fee!

B. Hansotia

August 14, 2010 8:49 PM

Why don't we bring in a whole lot of Indian doctors and Insurance companies to even the field againt our medical and insurance blood suckers. Let's have a free market for 18% of our economy. Atleast Americans will get a break, rather than Indian companies. While we are at it, every hospital must post in advance the cost of each elective procedure. We have a competitive market in every thing except healthcare.

What works for IT (for greedy companies) should be made to work for all Americans. If your company does not provide healthcare, or if you are an independent contractor, God forbid if you are uninsurable. Our most considerate health insurance companies would rather you shut up and go to a corner and quietly die!

Focus on what is impoprtant America.

Ronny

August 15, 2010 12:00 PM

I first want to address the comment complaining about discriminatory hiring practices of foreign IT companies:

As an African-American that has done technology contract work for many large corporations in New York City, I know firsthand the discrimination that takes place by U.S. companies, including lack of full-time jobs for minorities (AMERICAN), reduced salaries & a general lack of respect. So you're complaining about something that Americans do all the time... against its own (meaning Americans of non-European descent and women)!

Regarding the comments about how Americans buy foreign products and how those countries don't reciprocate: Do you think if we educated Americans on the same level across the board, and TRULY invested in making the youth of this country competitive against the world stage, that these issues would correct themselves because of the following ripple affects:

- Future workers not just getting jobs, but creating new American innovations to be exported globally, including computer technology, devices, ways of doing business, energy-saving measures and much more.

- Americans having generally different priorities with their money, increasing the percentage of Americans that go to college in the first place.

- Americans generally better understanding finances and financial management.

- A reduction in the need for social support programs, because of increased economic and job activity across the board.

- Americans innovating in local communities, creating NEW sources of tax revenue and income for those communities.

- Americans generally getting higher paying jobs, thereby paying more in taxes.

- Americans supporting each other, instead of fearing each other.

We need to train harder and run faster, not complain because someone else is running faster than us!

Adam

August 15, 2010 12:49 PM

I don't know all the details, so I can't comment with authority but, maybe there are similarities with what happened over here in the UK with regards to the plumbing and building trades.

For years the rates were astronomical but then with EU enlargement the Polish arrived and opened the market, and at last the customer was calling the shots. One could finally enlist the services of a plumber at ones convenience at a decent rate.

Markets Chang and people need to be prepared to adapt.

The native plumbers complained. Two things to say to them.
1 reevalute rates.
2 work harder.

Maybe something similar is happening in the IT sector. Maybe it's not such a specialist sector after all.

Protectionist, knee-jerk reactionary measures are not the answer. That will hurt America in the long run. The IT industry has to take a look at itself rather than hope for the good old days to return.

Times up for India

August 16, 2010 8:50 AM

It's just India!

Who cares?

Krish

August 16, 2010 12:05 PM

Lets go the crux of the problem -- Source of income for Government
(1) Property Tax -- Most of the Property is foreclosed. HEnce the income is less from this source
(2) Sales Tax -- People are buying less hence less money from here too
(3) Whatever income was generated has gone to support AIG/GM etc etc...
With all the source of income dried up. The expenses have gone up ...reason unemployment benefit is extended.
Now they are left with only tapping this source.

John80224

August 16, 2010 12:15 PM

Overly protectionist and knee-jerk responses are not the way. But just as the UK has seen the detrimental effects of the EU making broad changes, it is up to the US government to hold the reins.

I do not call for all out protectionism, but similarly to let it run completely unchecked at the whims of business, which has proven itself to be selfish and short-sighted, is possibly too far the other way.

Change is here, but it is the obligation of the US government to help its people deal with the change, not just promote it.

Taken to the extreme, the danger is that with completely open borders, low-skill jobs are being filled from elsewhere and thought-work jobs will be, too. This leaves only moderately trained, hands on jobs until the world economy globalizes. At which point, the US educational system will be gone due to a lack of reason for the US citizen to pursue it.

We'll find ourselves not only marginalized, but behind the curve.

TKD

August 16, 2010 3:59 PM

so few months ago they were trying to kick illigal immgrants out of the country. But the obama administration says its Legal, let them stay here ...now Indians workers legaly here are a problems. $2000 isnt gonna do anyhelp. The real problem is not Indian IT companies...its the American Companies that wants more in their pockets so if you dont get hired over an Indian Visa worker...its cuz your CEO said **** you i need a bigger paycheck...

jon24823z

August 16, 2010 4:28 PM

Scenario: All intellectual work processes i.e. computer programs are now designed, developed and coded in off-shore facilities using workers having no allegiance to America. American companies no longer hire American workers to perform such work so American students turn their focus to other disciplines.

Now, all things considered, where does America turn in times of crisis when the skills and talents required for the time are those long ago off-shored?

James

August 19, 2010 2:04 PM

All around the world, Europe, Near East, Japan, Australia, they are kicking themselves for letting the first Indian immigrant to step foot on their shores. Under the mantra of education (usually fake degrees), superior work ethic (the UK has more of them on welfare than anyone else) and intelligence (no comment needed), they have conned the world into letting them come to their countries. When their visas expire, they dont leave, but by then they are in such large numbers that the politicians are afraid to deal with the issue. Slimeballs and the USA is about to find out.

Whatever

August 20, 2010 9:09 AM

In an open borders global economy, people in developed nations are effectively unemployable, primarily due to their higher cost structure. Their main job opportunity becomes training their semi-slave labor H1B replacements, who's main advantage is they'll work 80 hour schedules for 40 hours pay.

holycows

August 20, 2010 2:25 PM

Lets get real !!!!!!!!!!!

Industry research tells that in every IT project, cost of software is 1$ vs cost of implementation (IT labor) is 7$. with cheap labor the substantial cost of implementation is gone and giving the ability to execute more Projects on same budget.

This keeps the demand up for new products and high profits for american tech companies, which build those product on cheap indian labor.

Both tech companies and end clients are able to keep their costs down and compete with foreign companies both in USA and abroad.....Bottom line is cheap indian and chinese labor is giving the edge for AMERICA in the global market....Protectionism goes both ways...America (saturated market) can target indian companies and india (an expanding market ) can target big time american companies like caterpillar/Coke by imposing tax on their imports...

This is the new world...learn the skill set and compete both on price and skill or accept the reality that only companies will benefit both ways not the it labor ...

Common Sense

August 23, 2010 6:46 AM

Speaking of education and grasping concepts..

It has always amazed me that the India-only "global" crowd argues that American products should not be sold in their country unless we allow India to export its slaves to the U.S. Why do Indians devalue themselves by comparing themselves to sodas?!

Custer

August 23, 2010 4:09 PM

According to a study on employment by the Indian Planning Commission, 44% of workers in 1999-2000 were illiterate and a further 22.7% had schooling only up to primary level. Despite India's much-vaunted educated youth, what's in the pipeline does not inspire confidence. Only about 33.2% of the labor force had achieved schooling up to middle level (eight years of education) and above.

j

August 24, 2010 11:44 AM

All people who are speaking against asians are racially biased its not my thinking its fact...they see color..

out of 32 mil non immigrants 8 mil are from asia and 14.5 mil from europe!!!

in the worker category Europe + NA has more immigrants than Asia

http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/YrBk09NI.shtm

Are You Kidding ME!

August 25, 2010 11:10 AM

In respones to this comment
tbsan
August 14, 2010 11:03 AM

"USA has a 10% unemployment rate. If we weren't so darn lazy and we focused on study and hard work instead of entitlements we would not need to import the labor that *has* worked hard to learn basic IT and customer support skills."

ARE YOU @#$()*@_#* KIDDING!

Work Hard, most of us have WORKED hard only to have our jobs sent overseas or replaced by an immigrant because of the cheap labor. WERE NOT LAZY!

An as for studying, HOW DO YOU RECOMMEND we pay for this? Also you think the Indian's can do the job better? I think NOT! At least the ones that work for IBM.....


USA Tech worker

August 29, 2010 11:58 AM

If the Indian companies are screaming about it then it must be a good idea.....

Mike

September 1, 2010 3:09 PM

Dont be fooled. If Indian companies moved work back to India, the workers will remain. They dont want to go back to the slum that is India. They will hang onto the shores of the USA with their fingernails. For that reason, the executives of these companies will not relocate their families etc. back to the sewer that is called India. They are going nowhere. The USA opened the door, it wont be closed. The relatives, the bogus degrees, the stolen money all will play a part in the colonization of the USA by the Indians. The USA is screwed.

divya

September 3, 2010 8:08 AM

To all who think indians and chinese are aliens takin away ur jobs. Don't forget that ur fore fathers were aliens to america too. If not for them u wud'nt be born in America anyways. They came to america so u guys could have a better life. Is the same wid us.

Krish

September 3, 2010 9:50 AM

FACTS & FIGURES
---------------
1) IBM is a US Company. It is the 2nd largest private employer officially and unofficially the largest employer in India
2) US is an amalgam of people from different geographies - COUNTRIES.
If there was no German - Albert Einstein in US during 2nd World War, the world map would have been different now.
3) US is considered progressive and forward looking upholding the values of Freedom and Liberty based on equal rights to citizens of all countries.
4) Agreed there is an unemployment rate of 10%. But just look at India, China. Their unemployment rate, Per Capita Income. You will just wonder you are living in Heaven.
5) Countries , Caste, Race, etc are created by us humans and not God. So pls think abt it.

Simple

September 4, 2010 3:07 AM

There is a simple solution. If US increases the visa fee for Indian nationals & companies, India should also go ahead and increase the work visa fee for Americans. Like diplomacy which is reciprocal so are visa rules. If "genius" US politicians come up with more protectionist stuff (a possibility as mid-term elections are nearby and nobody has a clue how to improve the economy) targeting India & Indians, there are bright people in India to counter the same measures. Now, who would win or lose? Indian IT may be hurt but that is overall a very small portion of the Indian economy, a slight bump perhaps but for American multinationals who are looking at selling their stuff to the Indian/Chinese middle class as the American consumer has been screwed by both the government and corporations, it might be an unfortunate scenario. The balance of power (economic mostly) has been shifting over to the East as the Elephant & Dragon rise, it would be better to maintain good relations.

Kodak Digital Camera Battery

September 5, 2010 11:50 PM

to accept an actual aftereffect us govt should ban all adopted consulting companies in US that use affected abstracts and resumes to sponsor H1 B. best of these companies force their consultants to beloved resumes and accept atleast 5 years on resume for a fresher..so adventitious for acting or perm jobs for us citizens appropriate now.. www.uk-power-battery.co.uk

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Bloomberg Businessweek’s team of Asia reporters brings you the latest insights on business, politics, technology and culture from some of the world’s biggest and fastest-growing economies.

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