Another Take on the China vs India Debate

Posted by: Frederik Balfour on February 12, 2009

Eye on Asia bloggers are pilloried regularly by our readers for raising the China vs. India debate. Some of our more virulent critics have accused us of being a part of a Western conspiracy to divide and conquer Asia’s two emerging giants. The term “Chindia” [which was also the title of a book edited by my colleague Pete Engardio containing BusinessWeek magazine contributions by several of us here at Eye on Asia] has continued gaining currency, both within Asia and beyond. The term is nothing more than a short hand, an artificial construct on which to base a discussion. For example check out this blog by my colleague Bruce Einhorn.

However the topic of the India-China rivalry is not an obsession shared solely by BusinessWeek writers. For an interesting take on Chindia, check out this excellent blog by Shashi Tharoor on the Huffington Post. Entitled “Olympic Proof: India is not China” he writes: “What’s happened at the Olympics speaks to a basic difference in the two countries’ systems. It’s the creative chaos of all-singing, all-dancing Bollywood versus the perfectly-choreographed precision of the Beijing Opening Ceremony,” he writes. Apt metaphor. And he also discusses the yawning difference between infrastructure one finds in the two countries, an extremely relevant consideration for anyone thinking of doing business in either place. “If China wants to build a new six-lane expressway, it can bulldoze its way past any number of villages in its path; in India, if you want to widen a two-lane road, you could be tied up in court for a dozen years over compensation entitlements.” Of course,China has huge problems with human rights, environmental degradation and corruption when it comes to industrialization and land-use, but there’s no denying that when there’s a project to be built, the government gets the job done. For more on this discussion see my blog on Tata Motor’s thwarted attempts to build a factory in West Bengal last year.

Born in London, and educated in India and the United States, Tharoor has penned three novels and five works of non-fiction, worked for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees and is a regular contributor to both international and Indian publications, according to his website. Write on, Mr. Tharoor.

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Reader Comments

not again

February 12, 2009 06:31 PM

Balfour dude,

let's stop this amazingly brainless comparison.. You see, we chinese people don't really care about India. All this blah blah are from Indian writers. The best quote from the junk from that dude on Huffington is

"China will win the Olympic medals for many games to come. India, perhaps, might win some hearts."


WHAT?

@Not

February 13, 2009 08:42 PM

Not Again says:"You see, we chinese people don't really care about India."

If that's the case, what's all the shrillness from so many Chinese about?

moviegoer

February 14, 2009 04:53 PM

I have one complain about Bollywood – I CANNOT count the number of times I hear about it on the media, but I CAN count the number of Bollywood movies I’ve seen: zero. While the Chinese are reaping top European film awards (even in China’s poorest years of the eighties) and making big money from the US boxoffice, where is, after all, Bollywood? I don't want to miss good stuff, "the creative chaos of all-singing, all-dancing" as said in the article.

keithip

February 15, 2009 09:40 AM

every country has its own policy, human rights is just an issue but don't we see there is great improvement in the decade? Not even US is a country with human rights issue but we seldom to blame on this. it's better stop arguement but gives good suggestions in the discussions. Think to the bright side makes people work positive.

blue

February 17, 2009 10:25 AM

To -- Not again,
Mr. Balfour just pointed out the differences between 2 gaint asian countries, and they are all true no matter you are gonna accept it or not. What's bothering you?

india rocks

February 23, 2009 09:56 AM

hey u china!!! india, might not have as many olimpic golds but we also have less slaves and communists.

american4peace

March 1, 2009 01:14 AM

It's despicable that the western media keeps pitching the India-vs-China game for the sake of the media, or something more sinister. Don't be fools, my Indian, Chinese friends.

robert

March 2, 2009 10:17 PM

it is ineresting to see that so many indians and western media discuss the subject. better to see how the basic human rights of ordinary people, like housing, food, medical care. Though india is proud of its freedom and british style legal system, we have not seen any improvement of housing and living standard of the people. People like talk about the freedom or system which fail to provide the basic living conditions for ao many ordinary people around major indian cities. Best wish to both countries. Be friends since we are so close to each other for so many generations and will continue like this for many generations to come. Be our frind with no knife behind.

China

March 7, 2009 01:47 PM

To-India Rocks
There are no human rights problems in China. If you want to argue, say something you think is morally wrong and I'll give you the reason for it. Oh and by the way, at least we don't live in slums.

United

March 15, 2009 02:55 PM

Why? Whether it is China, India or any other country we all live on land, we all eat food and we all breath air. All the countries should be united instead of pointing out weaknesses in countries.

I would like to finish by saying what are the possibilities if China vs India is changed to China AND India?!

Hope

March 22, 2009 12:47 PM

"India vs China" is a sedulously and artificially made topic which serves nothing more than some poliical purposes, with additional side effects of stirring up the unnecessary emotions. Would you compare Pakistan with Japan just because they are of the similar size in population and territory? It would be equally senseless the topic to compare India to China, as if you had been trying to compare Ethiopia to Italy. If your fanaticism for such comparison still has not receded, I provide you with a useful outlet. Try to spend a few hours on the internet and search for the results based on the following criteria. After that, wrap up the topic, forget it, and move on with what you really need to do about your career.

India vs China topics:
1. GDP comparison: don't be too surprised if you find China's GDP is almost 3 times of India's, that's about the gap that exists between US and China.
2. Olympic sports medal count: you probabl already know well what the differences are.
3. Olympic math ranking and medal count: if you don't already know, China usually tops the game, while India roams around 40th, far behind Viet Nam.
4. Space Technology: China is pretty much among the 1st tier club with US and Russia: manned space program, space walk, ASAT, etc. India shows none in this area.
5. Moon Exploration: India should be proud of their successful launch of the moon orbiting satellite, but remember also that their launch was more one-year after Japan and China launched theirs.
6. Life Expentancy: check out UN's web pages.
7. Literacy level: check out UN's web pages.

Let's wish all peoples of the world will do well and prosper, but remember that achievements come with hard work. Empty talk or wishful thinking alone produces nothing!

jjjjjjj

March 26, 2009 06:48 PM

yeah we don't really care or hate india. Say what you want, but i don't really care if india is first. "india will recieve phonomenol growth, but the people will likely stay poor."- Toronto Star

WithLoveFromIndia

March 27, 2009 01:28 PM

In India we have freedom and we are the fastest growing economy in the world. U cant have anything without freedom. hahahaha. U chineeeeee..lol...
All official data that China releases are wrong. There live in a closed world. Bamboo curtain prevails. :p
I have seen enough slums in China. OMG. I still can't forget my 7 day trip to ur county areas. oops. Fortuantly I had a Chinese friend to guide me. :)

kisna

March 30, 2009 01:52 AM

hey if u dont care about india...why u r getting emotion?!be cool....still i am living in china...i can accept infrastructure is better in china than india...apart from this nothing to compare...!!! if u have guts u have to accept india is far ahead in rural developement...!if u want to compare pls visit indian and chinese villages....u can find real growth!

TryingToHelp

March 30, 2009 09:57 PM

Hey WithLoveFromIndia above, please have some self-esteem, seriously. Distorting facts is not the right way to engage an otherwise constructive discussion. Getting your head stuck in sand does not help yourself and does not change the fact.

Jay

April 1, 2009 09:17 PM

I wouldn't trade all the Olympic gold medals that China got in all the Olympics for the Indian World Chess Champion Vishwanathan Anand.

For that matter I wouldn't trade Vikram Pandit (CEO Citibank), Indra Nooyi (CEO Pepsi), Arun Sarin (Vodafone CEO), Rajat Gupta (McKinsey CEO) etc. etc. for all of China's gold medals either.

China as a nation has developed more, no contest. India has higher producing individuals, no contest there either.

jcage

April 2, 2009 12:49 AM

To Jay

"I wouldn't trade all the Olympic gold medals that China got in all the Olympics for the Indian World Chess Champion Vishwanathan Anand."
The achieve of Anand is good but the effort to win an Olympic medal is not less. It require effort and sacrify.
"For that matter I wouldn't trade Vikram Pandit (CEO Citibank), Indra Nooyi (CEO Pepsi), Arun Sarin (Vodafone CEO), Rajat Gupta (McKinsey CEO) etc. etc. for all of China's gold medals either."

Vikram Pandit (CEO Citibank)it is not Citibank almost bankrupt if it not for the government bail out?! I mean CitiBank was among the great bank in the world in term of capitalization but not any more.. I don't know what he has done for Citibank..

"China as a nation has developed more, no contest. India has higher producing individuals, no contest there either." If a country has higher producing individual, then that country would be more developed such as the USA, UK, France, Japan, Korea. China got a long way to go but it is going in the right path of development..

Jay

April 2, 2009 03:40 AM

I am not doubting that winning an Olympic gold takes effort and sacrifice.

What I am saying is that "Personally it is more valuable for me for someone to win at an intellectual game like chess than to win at some physical sport".

China is indeed developing fast and pulling its people out of poverty, and doing it faster than India. I am quite happy that China is doing so. There is no need to hope China does not develop, as China's development will not hinder India's development.

Historically, China has had periods of prosperity. It usually depended upon having an emperor who was good. It is in a somewhat similar situation now. The current rulers are economically good. However they rule by force, and one never knows when they may not start fighting with each other. That is usually the fate of all dictatorships. Remember, what you see today may be very different from what you see 50 to 100 years from now.

Anyway, I wish all Chinese and Indians well. No need to say that one is superior to the other, just hope everybody can remove poverty.

jcage

April 3, 2009 12:20 AM

To Jay

Agree that getting people out of poverty is not an easy task and specially if the number is in the million!

Prakash

April 3, 2009 07:32 AM

The rough language and arrogance of this some chinese guy talks a lot about his culture.In his vituperative tone he masks uncivilty, intention to hurt and uncouthness.The chinese can never look at their own faults and do self examination.The land of Confucius has lost its traditional spiritual moorings in the materialistic progress of the few.Not all Chinese can enter China,they require a permit to move in their own country what a pity!During their great leap forward they massacred 20 million people the most horrific manslaughter of all time.During their student unrest they drove tanks upon their own people what a shame!

Our culture says "Samasta loka sukhino bhavantu" - "Let the whole world be happy."
We can criticise ourselves and introspect.We will progress and wish China also the same

Newbie

April 6, 2009 01:44 AM

Let's not get too hyped-up on China. At the recent G20 meeting in London, China 'demanded' greater representation within IMF citing its 'world's third largest economy status', but when the discussions went to 'contributions' to be made to IMF to commensurate with the greater representation it immediately cited its dismal per capita income figures, where it is classified as a low-middle income country along with Cameroon, Morroco and India.

dixie chick

April 6, 2009 10:07 AM

@ Newbie
Didn't you realise that the President of China had been placed in the center of the group photo of the G20. This is a symbolic showing that China now play a central role in the IMF, dude. Wake up!

Newbie

April 6, 2009 11:50 PM

@Dixie Chick,

Have you heard of something called 'backseat driving'. Only idiots come to the forefront and symbolically flaunt the 'center' position. Smart ones just stay behind and control the strings, which is what matters.

Khyber

April 6, 2009 11:53 PM

@ Dixie Chick,

Not sure who is more foolish, China or you. Have you ever seen a Chess Board. The 'King' is at the back row.

BTW, If you didn't know the game was invented in India.

Dixie Chick

April 7, 2009 06:24 AM

It is true, Indians are in denial.

Mike

April 7, 2009 07:10 AM

Very much agree. Indians like to deny the facts that are before them and resort to convoluted absurd arguments. That I found is the 'characteristic' of Indians.

jeff

April 7, 2009 10:50 AM

Indians never learn, they never learn from its neighbor and never learn from anyone. To me Indians is just ego centric and emotional lot people. There is no pragmatism there is just the oh-la-la feels good elements and the who cares attitude. Who I blame? I blame Indian media and its politicians that fail to educate its people.

I remember the first time I read some of the extreme hatred and racist comments from Indians. My first feelings is shock and angry. The shock is there are actually quite a lot of you running around in the internet with such behavior. This behavior does not affect ppl at root level only; this actually was shared at govt level which direct impact India foreign policy, and eventually screw India up. Isolating India from all its neighbors.

Then after awhile I start to realize why India has these kinds of social issues and problems. Why some of these ppl behave like this. Then I start to sympathize with India. Nowadays when I read silly comments from Indians I laugh my way through it.

I found that quite a number of you have this behavior of “hate the rich and despise the poor”. Have you ever asked yourself why all your neighbors don’t like you despite those countries in south Asia share the closest cultural linkage with India. ALL your neighbors from Pakistan to Sri Lanka to Bangladesh to Nepal all of them looks to China. China a country in the Far East which has no cultural similarities with these countries and yet can inspire them. Ironic isn’t it? You never question your attitude. That why I say you never learn. Never change after so many years.

There are so many ironic things that Indians refuse to accept or even have the courage to face up to the issue. If I wanted to write I can write god damn long.

As long as Indian keep delusional like this India will never make it anywhere because India will never unlock all the shackles that binding India and holding it down. The most a lot of us can see is just future tense like how India going to be …will be….soon to be….

toytony

April 11, 2009 03:30 PM

When you are in a competition, you look for the person whom is in front of you not behind you. And that is why Chinese care about competing with the US and Japan.
When you compete you compete with the best in the game, that is the only way to improve yourself.

East Asian

April 17, 2009 06:10 PM

The comparison is much simpler:

China must have more BMWs, TOYOTAs, Hondas than India by far. In fact, in the first three months in 2009, the number of cars sold in China outnumbered that of the U.S. (3.1 million vs. 2.8million). The number of BMWs sold in China accounts for 20% of BMW total world wide sale. same for Toyota, Nissan ...

now in china!

April 18, 2009 04:27 PM

Oh...again India vs. china story! It is boring! Pls don’t compare the both countries...! They have their own economy and political model for growth! Yes now, china is ahead of India in infrastructure, quality of life etc., the fact is India started reforming process 10 years after china! We must praise Chinese political system (not for some fake data, propaganda journalism and encouraging dangerous cyber nationalism) to unite the people (even all are Han Chinese) and reform process speeding up! At the same time not necessary to neglect India-----don’t forget Indians speed in establishing world class companies in a short period!
"Indian economy is growing at night after sleeping that country politicians"- yes, it means that political systems will not restrict their economic growth (but there is a chance for slow growth but it will not stop)! Chinese entrepreneurs take advantages from government direction, Indian entrepreneurs grow despite their complex govt policies, corrupt politicians (it means they battle but not struggle)! In fact Chinese had had their own rich culture in past----but now they have sold them to westerners for dollars! in this case India struggle to sell their own rich strong culture! (But existing situation will not leave them),
China encourages people” to win America"!-but there is no uniqueness, already they started to "win America" through establishing "duplicate manhatten", marketing "duplicate ipod, iphone, cevarolet spark, life style, etc, etc! Yes china is world biggest Xerox machine! They are struggling to differentiate innovation and imitation! (But no need to worry in a society which believes "money is god")! Other side Indians are struggling to come out from "follow up" work--they create software for international market! But never for their own country (but it is slowly changing)!
That is pathetic to bring down India to step up china! we must praise Indian achievements despite that nation diversity(race-Dravidian, Aryans, Mongols religion: almost all world religion, about 20 official languages with different script, abt 10% tribal population, culture and food variation in each states etc,etc,)-So, for all comparison gurus,pls don’t compare India vs. china------instead u can compare - spiritualism vs. atheism, Modernization vs. westernization, diversity vs. uniformity like this more topic is there to understand India and china... (My request is to throw India vs. china comparison topic in China Sea!)-----Finally more than 95% Indians don’t believe a "super power" except god, it means they distanced themselves from "super power" compedition! They believe human nature never become a "super power"(this is for military spending comparison gurus...pls note it, Indian military spending to protect themselves)!in fact their basic concept is good for whole world!----so, forget "slum dog millionaire”, go and learn something from India instead of wasting time to compare India vs. china!

East Asian

April 22, 2009 04:40 PM

BBC News report: China vs India

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MDAJBwACTU&feature=related

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkVMfVyX9u4&feature=related

3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNhTnc6OgRw&feature=related

4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVqsnwUkgBk&feature=related

5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcf3Wvs7Pjk&feature=related

CNN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85AgLsLbKF0&feature=related

jeet

April 27, 2009 11:47 AM

Just dont compare....for world peace...live and let live....

mohandas karamchand

April 28, 2009 10:29 PM

@east asian - Funny how the first three videos link to a BBC reportage with some sensible objective journalism and last two videos linked are user generated content the penultimate of which rates china as a super power on the basis of current miss world hailing from there and being in the video producer's eyes 'prettier' than all the past Indian Miss World put together and the last one showing traffic chaos in Mumbai.... some solid arguments there for China being better than India...NOT
Economically there is no doubt China is in a stronger position for the moment and might well do so overall in terms of size of the GDP for the foreseeable future but both countries face the same issues that being the absence of a welfare system that takes care of the unemployed as the economy goes through the cycle of boom and bust and the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots and the ever widening gulf between the two. Both countries therefore have potential for internal unrest arising from those issues.
As for external unrest, 90% of mischief in India is down to proxy by China. By all accounts, India has no pretensions or aspirations about being a super power but it can certainly inflict lasting damage on China like Pakistan can do unto India. In a street fight, all India has to do is get one big hit in to hurt China and that hit can be on Beijing, Shangai where it will hurt a lot. Also I believe, all this talk about India and China being friends is quite naive. China has been preparing for the inevitable conflict a long time ago by supporting proxies against India: Pakistan/Jihadis, Naxalites, Bangladesh and Burma as well as gearing itself militarily and now India is doing the same by going nuclear and bringing its conventional forces up to scratch locking both into a never ending one-upmanship and costly arms race.
Militarily against thousands of nuclear warheads China possesses India only possesses hundred or so. However it will only take tens to wreak havoc both on China and India. China is counting on weak Indian political leadership to win a war against India and India is counting on terrain and reach to defend against one. Both have made serious miscalculations as any potential conflict can and probably will go nuclear especially if the political leadership in either country sees itself being utterly humiliated and its power base at risk.
I do not need to outline the obvious for the world in terms of climate implications as well as the humanitarian ones of nuclear warheads detonating across large tracts of Asia; God/Mao forbid that ever happens depending on which side you are on; the God fearing or the Godless. But, however perverse the idea may seem, in my mind, it will take the possibility of a full blown nuclear war occurring to actually stop these two Asian Giants actually going up against each other in another war. MAD will work for these two like it did for the Soviets and Americans throughout the Cold War.

Manoj Sharma

May 3, 2009 01:47 AM

To Jeff

you must be a pakistani with this American name . India has donated more than 1 billion US to build Afghanistan and Afghans hate pakistan most for destroying their country.
India has built almost every Hospital in Nepal and allows millions of nepalis to work in India. Bangladesh and Nepals maximum export is tarrif free and they import heavily from India
Sri Lanka exports a lot to india and without India moral support they would not have been able to settle Tamil issue even in 1000 yrs .
So donot spread canard , yes when it comes to Pakistan, every country in the world wants to Isolate Pakistan , its sick and pervert country .
Also china can never replace India in this region , this is a matter of fact , they can take aid from China but can never function if India donto want them to !!

Manoj Sharma

May 3, 2009 01:57 AM

To Hope

this is a story full of stats chinese are trying to tell the world from roof top for long
but the reality is per capita income of china is so low that world bank ranks it along with other low income countries of the world.
comparison of Italy and Ghana was very funny , Average Italian earns many many times more than poor chinese infact can u compare 37000 to 3100 ?? Chinkys have become disllusioned !!

jcage

May 3, 2009 01:07 PM

Manoj Sharma
May 3, 2009 01:57 AM
"Chinkys have become disllusioned !!"

Hindu nationalist showing your true color! Racist to the core! This is an international forum not one of those Indian nationalist forum where each Hindu nationalist stroke each other ego!
When it come to poverty, India is not in any position to lecture anyone! Average Italians earn even more than Indian!

Ananda

May 3, 2009 01:25 PM

Many people here seem to be very biased when expressing their opinion. Prejudices and self-inflated achievements are smelt in many. I see a lot of commonality in India and China. As heavyweight emerging economies, we can work together in a synergized way at different international fora. We better focus on a win-win situation.

jcage

May 4, 2009 03:49 PM

Hindu nationalist have not problem using racial slur like
Manoj Sharma
May 3, 2009 01:57 AM
"Chinkys have become disllusioned !!"

Imagine we start using WOG to describe them!? They won't like it!

Jeff

May 5, 2009 08:52 PM

Funny how all these indian nationalist behaves, ppl like manoj and friends. The usual replies you see on how they get back to critics is
1) You either a pakis or chinkys hence your comments are not worthy to take into consideration.
2) You are a communist, we have freedom we are world largest democrazy...
3) You cant speak English!

Its never a doubt indian feels inferior and lack the confidence about themselves on their achivement and influence as a ppl/country in this world.

East Asian

May 8, 2009 03:40 PM

1) Here is a good source of information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

2) China's cities (some are probably unknown to Indians) are lot more modern and cleaner than the top cities in India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qingdao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiamen

3) Huge infrastructure build up in China like the 35km long Qingdao Bay bridge are happening all across China, this means something ?

http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200905/news-gb2312-847500.html


Jos

May 9, 2009 08:51 PM

@ East Asia

Go easy, dude. Your list of Chinese cities includes some Grade A and B ones, if I am correct. I bet you've never been to India, haven't you?

I have been to both countries. If India works very hard and doesn't make any mistakes, her top cities such as New Delhi and Mumbai will catch up the infras level of current Chinese provincial Grade C cities in about 2 decades. To reach current level resemble to that in your list, it will take India at least 3 decades' topline growth.

So there isn't any comparison left really, for today. What can I say? The real difference on the ground to me is a bit like comparing Germany with Poland, or France with Turkey - about the same population just not in the same league, sorry to say.

FxC FB

May 9, 2009 11:22 PM

Hi, all great internet warriors from China and India, stop!!!

Instead of attacking each other, say something to the author. He is watching and laughing you!!!

mohan

May 10, 2009 02:03 PM

Ok, this isn't exactly the theory of everything, but it is interesting to see how universal troll behavior is. My neighborhood's listserv has trolls. Some are skilled, some not so skilled. The seek the exact same thing the trolls seek here. The want a rise from the audience. And they ALWAYS get what they want, just like in my neighborhood's listserv.
Please, people, don't judge an entire ethnic group based on a few trolls.

East Asian

May 10, 2009 02:38 PM

@ Jos: I indeed have been to India, New Delhi and Bangalore to be exact. I agree with you in that Delhi is more like a tier 4 city (grade B provincial city like Lanzhou, Yinchuan etc) in China. I'd say there are at least 40 cities in China that look better than Delhi.

I don't know how long it will take for Indian cities to catch up the top cities (Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Beijing, Chongqing etc) of China, maybe never, maybe very fast, it all depends on policy, money and people. Shanghai was way behind Hong Kong 20 years ago, but now is very close (Hong Kong is still the best city in China in my judgement). I'd say one thing though: even when Chinese cities were not so modern (25 yrs ago), they were never as dirty & chaotic as the Indian cities, so people's sanitary tradition is a big factor.

East Asian

May 11, 2009 02:35 AM

China is first world, second world, thrid world all together:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8035906.stm

East Asian

May 11, 2009 05:40 PM

To mohandas karamchand:

> However it will only take tens to wreak havoc both on China and India.
> China is counting on weak Indian political leadership to
> win a war against India and India is counting on terrain
> and reach to defend against one.

I don't think China ever wanted to go to war with India, ever. China has global inspiration for sure, just look at the history, for more than 2 thousand yrs, CHina was the leading civilization in the world, up to the 1800s. If India has ever achieved such a status, it will have a different view of the world too.

China's foreign relationship will always be focused on U.S., Russia, Japan, Europe, Brazil, Korea, Australia, in descending order. India is a after thought, and only because India historically had been used by UK, U.S., Russian etc for their global expansion, and to a certain degree to counter China. It is not India itself, it is the forces behind.

As for China's relationship with Parkistan, if you have any knowledge of history, you should know that they were not good friend from the start - it was Parkistan who approached China in the late 1960s for help. Before that ? China has border issues with Parkistan and there were great tentions between them. Countries like Nepal, Bangeladesh all begged China for help again India, why ?

A united China will happen in the future (don't count out Mangolia fall back into China), and it will be 3 times larger than India, a full scale war's result is obvious. Plus, the global warming will do a lot more damage to India than to any other big countries.

Jos

May 12, 2009 06:15 PM

@ East Asian

Well, I've been closely following China's development since years ago when I started to do business with them. I've been to China often in recent years for biz trips. In comparison, I was in India only once for a short stay in New Delhi and Mumbai.

China's main problem as far as I see is that she ought to trouble-shooting her system along with growth, if she wants to successfully compete with US and EU. System, I mean by much more social justice and even development via rule of law.

India's problem is more of her own making, in which democracy has been taken for granted as an excuse for more bureaucracy, power abuses and corruptions instead of less. I suggest India look more at Brazil on how to get things done more efficiently via democracy.

PRAKASH

May 13, 2009 09:04 AM

INDIA HAS EARNED LOT OF RESPECT FROM CHINA IN HISTORY. REMEMBER FA HEIN AND HSUAN TSANG.AND SO IT WAS VICE VERSA.THEY NEVER FOUGHT A WAR FOR CENTURIES TILL 1962.CHINESE CIVILISATION IS BEING OVERTAKEN BY WESTERNISATION.INDIA STILL RETAINS ITS SPIRITUAL MOORINGS.INDIA IS CHAOTIC ON THE SURFACE BUT A DEEP CALM PERVADES BENEATH.CHINA IS CALM ON THE SURFACE BUT A DEEP CHAOS PERVADES BENEATH
CHINA HAS ACHIEVED ITS MATERIALISTIC GLORY THROUGH BRUTE FORCE AND BY SPILLING BLOOD OF MANY CHINESE.INDIA GROWS SLOWER BUT WE RESPECT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.DEMOCRACIES EVOLVE INTO GREAT SOCIETIES AND GROWTH BLENDS INTO IT. DICTATORSHIPS GROW FAST AND ULTIMATELY MEET THEIR DOOM.

PRAKASH

May 13, 2009 09:04 AM

INDIA HAS EARNED LOT OF RESPECT FROM CHINA IN HISTORY. REMEMBER FA HEIN AND HSUAN TSANG.AND SO IT WAS VICE VERSA.THEY NEVER FOUGHT A WAR FOR CENTURIES TILL 1962.CHINESE CIVILISATION IS BEING OVERTAKEN BY WESTERNISATION.INDIA STILL RETAINS ITS SPIRITUAL MOORINGS.INDIA IS CHAOTIC ON THE SURFACE BUT A DEEP CALM PERVADES BENEATH.CHINA IS CALM ON THE SURFACE BUT A DEEP CHAOS PERVADES BENEATH
CHINA HAS ACHIEVED ITS MATERIALISTIC GLORY THROUGH BRUTE FORCE AND BY SPILLING BLOOD OF MANY CHINESE.INDIA GROWS SLOWER BUT WE RESPECT INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.DEMOCRACIES EVOLVE INTO GREAT SOCIETIES AND GROWTH BLENDS INTO IT. DICTATORSHIPS GROW FAST AND ULTIMATELY MEET THEIR DOOM.

East Asian

May 14, 2009 02:04 AM

> INDIA HAS EARNED LOT OF RESPECT FROM CHINA IN HISTORY. REMEMBER FA HEIN AND HSUAN TSANG.AND SO IT WAS VICE VERSA

Obsolutely, this also showed the Chinese's openess toward different cultures. In fact Buddhism is probably more popular in China than in India today -- with some bad consequence (for example, Tibet used Buddhism to support its slavery social structure, up to the 1950s, when Mao told Dalai Lama that he had to give up slavery, in exchange, all the slave masters would get money from the Chinese government).

Anyway, there are many famous Indian scientists, writers that are well known in China. But how much does India know China ?

On INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS & DEMOCRACy, I think it is open for debate. I can give one example: if you work for Microsoft, you have to give up some fredom and individual right, this could make me less happy than if I have the freedom to get up at any time I like, and hang out on the street any time I like. But I have to make a living, so I am willing to give up my freedom. This lack of individual freedom makes a good company. Same thing for a country. In fact, China is a market economy, at least for 90% or more of its economy, I don't see any lack of freedom in CHina than the U.S. other than there is no free election. For all your daily life, living in Beijing gives you more choice than in DC because there are more night clubs, restaurants, more night life than any city in the U.S. So for practical purpose, lack of democracy doesn't mean Chinese people are deprived of freedom. I, by no means, mean democracy isn't a good thing. I truely believe China will have democracy within 20 years like what happened in South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, all of which developed their economy under strict society. Of course, China is a little different in that it is ruled by a party called Communist. But I don't think anyone in the party believe in communism. Like what happened in Russia, a name change is easy enough when the right time comes.

China face many of the same issues as India, most notebly, lack of resources from water to forest to oil. I believe this will be the limiting factor in CHina's developement into the world's leading country. Unless the country follow strict birth control for another 100 years so to push the population back to around 400 million (I read one article who did this calculation), and then stay at 400 million. Then China could be among the world's true top powers.

East Asian

May 14, 2009 06:12 PM

This one is pretty authentic about the people who in the bottow of the big cities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqU10LWy5MM

What do you think ? I think better than those poorest people in NYC, Newalk, Jersey city, in the sense that these people are not as lonely, and the city is China are a lot safer. They don't have money, but when $1 could buy a much better meal than the $3 in McDonld's, the money they have is worth more than the bottom people in NYC.

Can somebody post the life of the poor people in Mumbai ?

A S

May 22, 2009 12:16 AM

I AM INDIAN, LIVED 8 YEARS IN CHINA

CHINESE CITY IN NORTH AND SOUTH ARE VERY BEAUTIFUL -- SHANGHAI BEIJING SHENZEN HONGKONG LIU ZHOU

AND SO ARE INDIAN CITIES --- BUT PROBLEM IN CHINA IS THEIR PEOPLE DO NOT ENJOY FREEDOM

RURAL AREAS ARE VERY BACKWARD ESPECIALLY IN TIBET AND MANCHURIA

INDIA CITIES ARE ALSO BEAUTIFUL -- BUT IT IS STILL A LONG WAY FOR INDIA ---- ONLY CORRUPTION FREE POLITICS CAN BRING US AHEAD OF CHINA....

CHINESE PEOPLE ARE VERY GOOD, CHINESE GIRLS WILL LOVE INDIAN MEN --- BELIEVE ME ON THIS, IF YOU ARE HANDSOME... THEY ENJOY EVENING DRINKS AT KARAOKE BAR AND LIKE TO ENTERTAIN GUEST.....JUST LIKE US IN INDIA.... THOUGH THEY ARE SHY AND NOT SO OPEN LIKE US...

THEIR WORK CULTURE IS VERY DIFFERENT, WORKERS AND PEOPLE WORKING UNDER YOU WILL GIVE YOU FULLEST RESPECT (MAYBE THAT COMES FROM SLAVERY OR RULING COMMUNIST NATURE)

huyu

May 31, 2009 12:40 AM

I am Chinese and an under-deserved Anglophile as well. To us Chinese, India is already the world's No.1 Superpower. No dispute here, and much admired. In PPP terms, India is already the world's No.1 economy, not even the US comes close. India has a super high-tech economy with InfoSys, Wipro, Nano, and much more that the average Chinese never even heard about. Not to mention Gandhi, Nehru, and Singh super human politicians. India has a huge population dividend, and as time grows the advantage will become much more pronounced. In the next 100 years, India with her super effective democracy will prevail; as we just pray that India will be also kind enough to leave a bit of room for us Chinese to earn a modest living on our corner of the planet. India just needs to sleep walk through the next 30 years, whereas us Chinese will have to continue to slave under the Sun, rain, and snow just to keep us fed and our kids in school. With the current economic crisis, my salary here in Beijing is shrinking by 8% each year, together with the overall economy. In 30 years, I suspect it would be zero, but then I would also be dead and need not to care. Whatever you hear from our government and the foreign press, if it is good news, just ignore it, it is not quite right, shall we just say. Cheers to India.

huyu

May 31, 2009 12:41 AM

I am Chinese and an under-deserved Anglophile as well. To us Chinese, India is already the world's No.1 Superpower. No dispute here, and much admired. In PPP terms, India is already the world's No.1 economy, not even the US comes close. India has a super high-tech economy with InfoSys, Wipro, Nano, and much more that the average Chinese never even heard about. Not to mention Gandhi, Nehru, and Singh super human politicians. India has a huge population dividend, and as time grows the advantage will become much more pronounced. In the next 100 years, India with her super effective democracy will prevail; as we just pray that India will be also kind enough to leave a bit of room for us Chinese to earn a modest living on our corner of the planet. India just needs to sleep walk through the next 30 years, whereas us Chinese will have to continue to slave under the Sun, rain, and snow just to keep us fed and our kids in school. With the current economic crisis, my salary here in Beijing is shrinking by 8% each year, together with the overall economy. In 30 years, I suspect it would be zero, but then I would also be dead and need not to care. Whatever you hear from our government and the foreign press, if it is good news, just ignore it, it is not quite right, shall we just say. Cheers to India.

Mr. Jumbo

June 1, 2009 06:37 AM

India Vs china discussions are stupid. This is like two hungry dogs ready to jump at each other the moment your master dangles a piece of morsel between you.

If neither side sees this then neither deserves to become a superpower. Pathetic.

@ Huyu

June 1, 2009 08:12 AM

I support what you said here.

suresh

June 15, 2009 02:52 AM

All indians just shut up.
I am indian living in thailand for 17 years. I live and work with chinese people day in day out.

Indians and chinese are equally hard working but chinese beat us in their dynamism, openness and practical approach.

You give them Taiwan, Singapore, Hongkong. You see what they made out of them. Can you name one such indian islands?

Why don't we learn the good things and leave those we don't want?

One thing lets all remember. Chinese know their weaknesses and other's strenghts. They will overcome them and will eventually become more and more powerful. We are already seeing that.

They have focus (people and leadership).

Look at our politicians and imagine
where we would land up if they continue to rule us. Why think about what chinese are doing? Why don't think about what we should do to bring our living standards to match up with world standards.

Why not work together with chinese and complement each other's abilities?

There lies the dynamism

Vinay

June 16, 2009 05:14 PM

I’m an Indian (from Gujarat), living in US for last 20 years.

Suresh, I agree with you. We need to shut up and learn from our past mistakes. Sure….we have come a long way, but we still have a very long way to go. Our corrupt politicians, the dynasty-rule culture, and corrupt babus (IAS officers) will take India downward more that you can imagine.

World respects China and its influence around the world. World looks at India with pity. Why…because India has not done anything in last 60 years that would earn any respect from the word. Be it about nuclear deal or dealing with Pakistan or developing Tejas with indigenous kavery engines…all India has been doing is trying to please US or Gandhis (read “Nehrus”).


I’m sorry to say this but there is no “Jai Ho” in near future for India, unless her rulers (politicians, babus, corrupt industrialists) get shocked and some magic happens that will make them do good for India.

C. H. Ng

June 17, 2009 02:22 AM

The last two comments posted by these two gentlemen, Mr Vinay and Mr Suresh, are the best and most sensible comments among the rest of those ignorant fools in this blog who just shoot right from their foul mouths without considering other people's feelings.

Keep it up, Mr Vinay and Mr Suresh, you two will really put sense in those otherwise nutheads still living in their coconut shells.

Matt spaul

June 17, 2009 06:30 AM

efr4tg5g

achimus

June 18, 2009 03:04 AM

Vinay and Suresh represent the majority sentiment - Indian or Chinese!!

doesItMatter

June 23, 2009 10:10 PM

True China is ahead of India in almost all aspect. But it is amazing to realiaze India's potential to grow even with corrupt and selfish Politicians. Talking about democracy, I am Indian I have voted only once, rest of the time when I go to vote my vote was already casted by someone else :(. And when would this dynast(Gahdhi, and most of the state has its own) rule end in India.

wildthings

July 13, 2009 12:03 PM

East Asian,

You seem to be the most objective person here. I think you argue with reason and base your arguments on facts as opposed to emotion.

Its very true, where a handful of chinese have gone to settle, prosperity has surely followed. Chinese people are very industrious and are backed with good ethics.

China have an advantage which india does not. India is not 1 country, more a union of states(countires, cultures).

Here in UK, punjabi people from punjab are very different from Gujrati people from gujrat. the two people have their own culture and have very little in common.

Most punjabis dont like other people from other parts of india. The tamils of india support sri lanka. some of the muslims of india support pakistan.

A point was made about cinema, indian films are almost always filmed in western countries, london, toronto, newyork, etc...india is the immitation nation...the name of the film industry is called bollywood...wonder where they got that from??? ;-)

India is spritual my arse, india is the biggest wannabe nation in the world...Watch any bollywood flick and see how much india kisses western ass...

India may be chasing china but china is not looking over her shoulder, instead china aspries to pip the mighty USA.

The only stage that india can massage her ego is on a set for a bollywood film. The reality is that most of india is pretty much 3rd world.

Hindu nationalism will ruin india further...hinduism should be banned in India...An indian will use logic to make a software app for sun microsystems and then go home and drink cow piss and worship a monkey god riding on a rat....or circle a candle around some idol god.

To be like USA/ Europe Union, india will have to educate and rationalise the people of india.

Calling yourself a democracy doesnt make it so. the quality of life for most chinese is far better than most indians.

If i had a choice i would much rather live in Shanghai then slum-rich mumbai.


bbcbbc

July 13, 2009 01:46 PM

i think the latest bollywood film awards are being held in Macau, china. hmmmm, nowhere in india good enough?

chinacynic

July 16, 2009 03:47 AM

I always laugh whenever I read how much the Chinese yearn for political freedom. Yeah, right, that's why they are all queueing up to emigrate to the world's biggest, most vibrant democracy, and a neighbour to boot--India. Ever heard of a Chinatown in India?
The Chinese yearn for wealth, and that is the real reason why they all want to go to the west. They are not interested in poor countries that happen to have a parliamentary system. The democracy stuff is for the western media.

vic

July 17, 2009 02:07 PM

hey u chinese freaks u r no more than cowards short heighted cheats thats wat u guys did in th indo sino war wel let us c ur country is leading us in fdi bt it is also leading in pollution maybe th time u guys bcum superpowetr ur country may b sufferin from enumerous pollution probs

Tony C

August 12, 2009 08:55 PM

One thing I don't understand:

Why Indians like to chant for the rich CEO's who are not even Indian citizens? Does that make you a stronger country at all? Those people achieve great deal when to go out of India. Doesn't that make your society less a hospitable host for individual success?

I also do not understand why Indians like to chant for the super-rich in India. Doesn't that make a greater contrast with the extreme-poor?

Don't even get me start on Indian-style democracy. Democratic system does not automatically solve problems. Many democratic countries are epic failures. It is just an excuse for politicians and placebo for many citizens. On the other end of the spectrum tho, Singapore is hardly a democracy but that does not stop it from being socially and economically successful.

Taiwan and Hong Kong were at their fastest growths while not democratic at all just FYI.

I have nothing against India or Indian people. I don't normally share my opinions online that much. However, I am just sick of the cliché frequently raised by Indians (as a sign of slightly brain-washed):1 We are democratic but you are not. 2We are slow but steady. 3 We are more creative. 4 We have rich people on top of Forbe's list. (Not necessarily all here in the comments, but very often-seen elsewhere)

At last but not at least, no offense, but as some commentators already pointed out, China and India, for over 5000 years, have never rivaled each other. It is the Americans and Europeans who put us side by side for comparisons. They have been good at it. You don't even lift a finger to defeat two nations.

Joe

August 13, 2009 03:33 AM

Hands down US is the best. Indians just shout and Chinies just eat snakes and ants..

vika

August 13, 2009 11:49 AM

@ Tony,
I am surprised....
Normally you will not share your opinions online...but, you have come to share your opinions on this useless article...!
I am really surprised!
I think whatever you mentioned here as indian un matured comments is not indian comments...! just comments from indian names! Indians do not have good opinions of their corrupted politicians!! Just you have come here to mention "india's failed democrazy"!
Your people daily propaganda is enough...No more pls! it is boring!!!
I think China's internet addiction becoming dangerous....now a days chinese just using internet to make comments like this! if it is go like this ,one day this country will become one of the worst victim of cyber nationalism...it is China not India!
My request : Don't give compromise punch to balance your comments! be realistic! You too a Chinese nationalist as many chinese commented here!
Note: Don't worry about Indian democrazy..Democrazy will have problems...but it never fail!
Finally i dont want to comment your political systems...because you people never come out!

jcage

August 14, 2009 12:42 AM

Tony

You hit the nail on the head on this one! Everyone keep hearing how great is India with its "democrazy"! That "democrazy" is letting India to get away with murder such as the Dalit or untouchable, wife burning, massive bureaucracy combined with massive corruption, the biggest number of poor and undernourished children in the world and the list go on and on! They already reached their limit from what democracy allow them to reach and there is no way to go but down from now on!
All talk and more talk from those losers!

bitterindian

August 14, 2009 02:43 AM

its true india is a failed democracy. after 60 yrs of independance ppl still call you slum infested country.
dun worry nobody cares about indian democracksi, ppl just feel bewildered and alittle just alittle "funny" on why so many indian self promote on the internet by attacking others to the extend of hijacking other non indian topic.

nationalist_hindu

August 14, 2009 03:09 AM

Look at the racist remark against Chinese from the racist Hindu! Bloody scum!!
No wonder the Australian like to beat them and now we know why the Hindu are picked by the Australian and anybody else.
Look at their hypocrisies!


http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4981&start=640

Deepel than mountain tallel than ocean fail weathel fliend just got sunk :wink:

RaviBg wrote:
China cites technical hitches for not supporting ban on Jaish

nationalist_hindu

August 14, 2009 03:16 AM

Look at the racist remark against Chinese from the racist Hindu! Bloody scum!!
No wonder the Australian like to beat them and now we know why the Hindu are picked by the Australian and anybody else.
Look at their hypocrisies!


http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4981&start=640

Deepel than mountain tallel than ocean fail weathel fliend just got sunk :wink:

RaviBg wrote:
China cites technical hitches for not supporting ban on Jaish

Jeff

August 14, 2009 05:27 AM

In other words, there is no shining india in india however there is shining india living within the fairer race society like the far east and the west.

The ultimate irony of being a hindu nationalist/racist. Thinking of gaining so cheapshot of wishing others to fall so that they can feel alittle bit better.

God is fair and heaven is just. God will only help those who help themselves. God do not put a billion ppl on this land sharing the similiar culture to screw with humanity. A billion soul IS humanity. The mockery will always be for those who wish bads things on others.

The irony and the mockery....how can ppl not LMAO.

sumit_Friendship

August 17, 2009 08:57 AM

Both countries are the greatest civilization in the world ...India and China will rule world in future...both are the fastest growing economy in the World..both should co-operate between each other...Friendship and cooperation between India and China is a historical necessity, not only for the two countries, but also for the world..china also used have poverty like india many years back...and now they have less poverty then India...so don't fight between each other...lets's make lovely world with a bgi smile in the face ....mail me at: sumit_g2h2@rediffmail.com

Harsh

August 19, 2009 07:32 AM

NAMASTEY...
To all my chineese counterparts , to all NRIs , and my Indian friends...

To all chinese,
Beware of INDIA... INDIA is coming.. U chinese will caught napping. One day you will realise , " Oh ! INDIA has surpassed us and we are outdated by INDIA." Remember my words. They are to become reality in nearest future...

To all NRIs,
You have no right to say about India's progress. This right will be given to you only when you serve for your own country and not for the country in which you are living. Be part of INDIA's progress and development... Why you people rush to other country ??? You have no patriotic theme in your mind , heart , soul...
So return to INDIA , be a part of her progress , and then only talk about INDIA's progress..

coco

August 19, 2009 11:35 PM

arrogance and irritability coming up with the tiny economic achievement during past few decades? Please, please calm down, look at the West and Japan instead of India, we still have a loooong way to go!!!
To the indians, you sure have something great, if comparing with China really makes you feel superior and happy, keep doing it.

prakash

August 20, 2009 03:56 AM

Lets look at the true picture. China today is definitely ahead of India in most respects.We need to learn a lot from them instead of taking part in useless rantings and ravings.

India is also progressing and sooner or later it will lead the world along with China.

The same should not lead to useless destructive rivalry but we should leverage each others strengths to benefit mankind and the world. Hail the Asian Century.

Rohit

August 26, 2009 06:08 AM

First comment on this post was made on feb 12, and even after 6 months, we are still trying to prove one country inferior to other. Can we really boast about how intelligent we are after having a look at all these. Just like both Chinese and Indian economy is in growing phase, we all also need to grow up. May the time comes soon when we realize that co-operation is much easier and better to grow than showing superiority over each other.

freedom lovver

September 12, 2009 05:55 AM

After travelling all over China, I could only come with one conclusion.

Tremendous material progress, but all a bit soulless.

Look if someone were to take my right to have my religion, I do not care even if I get a billion pounds. So does China give me the right to have a religion, and also gives me the choice to be a non believer? NOOOOOOOO... not by a long shot.

It is trying to create a new God in the name of Mao, yet we all know that Mao is synonmous with the atrocities of the CUltural revolution and cannot ever be called a Budhha or a Christ.

I would love my country to have a history and its historical buildings. CHina in its stupidity has destoryed most of its hisotry as it was abhorrent to the communist party.

Well... what would Delhi be without its heritage? Can India's Taj Mahal or its Ajanta caves, the sun temle at Konark ever be pulled down to make way for another steel and glass strucure? NO way!

So India scores here too.

If you cannot pray freely to your religious beliefs, cannot elect your representatives, cannot bark freely in public, cannot preserve your history no amount of extra steel production can give you a claim for a better life...

cesspool

September 13, 2009 09:04 PM

after 6 mths we still see indians coming in giving reasons on why india is still better than china. ha.ha.

while the rest of world thinks india is a begger, a cesspool.ha.ha.

ho.ho.he.he.

freedom lover

September 15, 2009 08:25 AM

Cesspool... what makes u so rude?

If u r CHinese, ask yourself when will u be able to elect ur own leader.... when will u be able to pray to your GOd. Would you want ur teeth pulled out without aneasthesia, if u dissent with the governments view???

The_Observer

September 17, 2009 12:01 PM

The Indian press needs to be less hysterical with Chinese related stories that they are putting out at the current time.
In a Voice of America report:

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-16-voa12.cfm

the Indian External Affairs Ministry called the alleged shooting of two border guards by Chinese soldiers reported by the Indian press as "factually incorrect."

apuland

September 17, 2009 10:49 PM

Shining India:
1) 47% of Indian children under five are malnourished and stunted.
2) 160 million Untouchables remain oppressed and shunned.
3) 40% of Indians live below the global absolute poverty line.
4) 1000 children die each day from diarrhea.
5) 1000 adults die each day from tuberculosis.
6) Almost 40% of adults are ILLITERATE. Even this is probably understated, as people are deemed literate who can do little more than sign their name.
7) Only 10 percent of the entire Indian labor force works in the formal economy; of these fewer than half are in the private sector.
8) About 40 million children who are supposed to be in school are not.
9) About a fifth of the population is chronically hungry; about half of the world's hungry live in India.
10) No Indian city has 24/7 water supply.
11) 60% of Mumbai residents live in slums.
12) Some 600m Indians have no mains electricity at all.
13) Mumbai and Delhi are usually underwater when it rains.

Incredible

September 18, 2009 01:13 AM

Incredible India!

India behind schedule preparing for Commonwealth game.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2045&Itemid=404

freedom lover

September 26, 2009 09:54 AM

All the hysteria the Chinese are generating ony has a harmful effect on the relations between the two countries.

There are about 58,000 Chinese workers in India. The Indian governement has now decided to check their visas and in cse they are on business, they would have to take an employment visa, which is not easy.

Now I ask my Chinese friends what is the point of trying to create tension with India, when both countries can live together with mutual respect?

harish

October 2, 2009 12:00 AM

I request my chinese friends to check reality..

1. You don't have freedom of faith, expression and desires.

2. You people just cannot even protest and dissent. Your government is always ready to crush your citizens under military tanks (remember tianmen square)what a pity!

3.Your knowledge about trueness of any news is restricted to Government run media. Most of the time truth never prevails.

4. Communist leaders talk blah blah about developments many of them are not 100% true. Atleast we Indians have options to change our leader if he is not worth leading. Where do you people stand at this point?

5. China has highest number of slaves and child employees especially in mining and other industries run by chinese governemnt. In India to there is a bit slavery some part of rural areas but atleast not in Government run industries.

6.Ask any patent attorney...China has least respect for patents and trademarks. Worst respect by chinese by easily duplicating the innovations done by companies of other countires. Yes China is the biggest Xerox Machine. Years of hardwork by innovators goes in to drain when chinese eye on it.

7. Show me a single successful product which china has not replicated? In India to we get fooled down by cheap chinese replicates whether it is a mobile phone, laptops other consumer goods. Looks as good as iphone and nokia phones but not original!!! You people help vendors and distributors cheating consumers around the world and snatching their hard earned money for a chinese products.

8. Show me single company which has not suffered business losses due to chinese replicates? Even a smallest electronic componets are replicated..Most of the semiconductor manufacturing companies are suffering because of this..Where is your honesty?

9. Even in automotive sector there are atleast 10-12 companies in China which duplicates all product launched by companies like Yamaha, Honda and other companies..

10. If you feel you are intelligent and capable the why are you using shortcuts?
Come with your own quality products and build some branding of your own.

11.Why don't you adopt a policy of live and let live? Why do you support maoist naxals in India by supplying Chinese arms? who kill innocents in the name of equality?(Naxals till date never attacked the real culprits). Even terrorists who attacked mumbai had used chinese make machine guns and grenades.

12. Why do you instigate us by issuing separate Visas to Indian Kashmiris? Why do you want to devide our citizens by supporting Anti India elements? Why do you support technically and militarily to rougue terrorist nations like Pakistan and north Korea? The epicentre of terrorism? This shows your Government attitude and behaviour..

14. Comeon open your eyes..atleast India never attacked any country on its own...since last 3000 years. We are peace loving country. Both countries have rich history...never fought war in 3000 years till 1962.

15. Some chineese boasting development in your country...GDP...Growth...development of cities blah blah..chinese are like people in a golden prison...what's the use no freedom...A dog in a street has more freedom and happy than a dog tied with a chain in an AC room! That's what the difference between the Citizens of Great Two nations..bye bye

abc

October 4, 2009 12:45 PM

finish it all and be happy

Confucious

October 5, 2009 11:34 AM

Entertaining. I love this blog .

joe

October 12, 2009 01:09 AM

Comon, half of India don't even have electricity, they don't even live in the 20th century, let alone the 21st. The only reason China take part in any China vs India debate is because the sheer comedy of watching Indians living in their fantasy land of self glory.

lol

October 14, 2009 03:41 AM

not to be rude. but some of the posts above really make me laugh.

Indian people talk about they have more freedom than Chinese. but the fact is half of indian ppl don't have the "FREEDOM" to have adequate food, decent space to live, rights to get educated. This is not freedom.

For biz reasons, i've been to most of the places in Asia. The top tier places are: Hongkong, China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Sigapore,Malaysia maybe as well.
If you are smart enough, you will see all the ppl in these places are of the same race. China used to be the superpower in ancient, and argubly it is now and it will be definitely. The only thing india has is culture. India was never a power as a nation, which is pathetic with some many people. and i don't think it will be.

i'm not a racist, but you have to admit, intelligence level, far east asians and caucasion rules.

freedom lover

October 14, 2009 07:52 AM

C.mon, chinese brothers! Start electing your own leaders, start smiling more...

Love your neighbour...

Love your Muslims and blacks...

There is a world of harmony, if we look beyond military might and racial supremacy....

Gandhian thought, Buddhist and Christian thought tells us that we should not flex our muscles and threaten others.

yeas, we should pray to all gods and his creations...

Cheers !! :):) !!

sadsadapu

October 15, 2009 02:08 AM

Why India Will Never Surpass China

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfY1ISdABSw

indiadelusional

October 15, 2009 03:20 AM

The abandoned generations: how child labourers suffer as India ignores the law

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6875302.ece

futureofIndia

October 15, 2009 07:02 AM

Chinese BullSh..t

Wanted

October 15, 2009 02:50 PM

Can any Indians , come to China to start a curry house in shanghai. I missed the food like chicken tikka masala , paneer and dhal. Tandoori made nan. Can we start a debate on Chinese food vs indian food. It will be fun.

Wanted

October 15, 2009 02:50 PM

Can any Indians , come to China to start a curry house in shanghai. I missed the food like chicken tikka masala , paneer and dhal. Tandoori made nan. Can we start a debate on Chinese food vs indian food. It will be fun.

Shotgunner

October 15, 2009 05:41 PM

Please stop this India vs China comparison, it's meaningless cos there is nothing in common between the two. We mainland Chinese are just working hard to close the gap with our more advanced neighbours who also share same culture e.g. HK, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan & SK.

India was never on my radar until these days when I found so many Indians talking how evil we are, how slaved we are, how not free we are ... oh my goodness.

MK

October 16, 2009 11:13 AM

I grew tired of this talk. I think one of the most important thing India need to focus right now is to stop making more babies. They are all malnourished and every Indian are living in slums. The problem is you can't built highrise apartments either. Sad.

What will the world comes too when 16 Indians live in a 100sqft shack in one of the many slums of Mumbai.

Ray

October 16, 2009 01:18 PM

First off, I am of Chinese descent and I am offended by all the Chinese posters on this board for posting such arrogant comments. Yes, China is comparatively richer right now than India, but don't forget how poor it was just a few decades ago. If you don't like it when Japanese dismiss China as "dirty and poor", then don't do that to India because it's all relative.

Secondly to my Indian and Chinese friends, let's not paint each other with such broad brushstrokes. There are vibrant booming parts of India that would make any Chinese jealous. Is it a bit chaotic at times? Yes, but it shows India's great potential. At the same time, it does little service to Indians to just dismiss China as a brainwashed, enslaved society. People have much more freedom there than the Indian press may have you think. And on many of the basic living standard indicators (life expectancy, literacy rate, hunger, etc.) China has done much better than India. If you believe that having enough to eat, being able to send your children to school, and being able to read are basic human rights, then don't be so quick to condemn China for their human rights violations until you look at the same situation in India....

Let's all try to help each other out and understand our rich, complex cultures better.

Mark

October 16, 2009 01:50 PM

"If i had a choice i would much rather live in Shanghai then slum-rich mumbai."

Remember this is your personal opinion,
As an american tourist, I 'd probably find it easier to get around Mumbai, than struggle around in a crappy/broken-english speaking neighbourhood of SHanghai..

Once I went to a business conference and instead of Executive President, it was written Execution President..lol..I got the fright of my life!

chinese

October 17, 2009 06:47 AM

"As an american tourist, I 'd probably find it easier to get around Mumbai, than struggle around in a crappy/broken-english speaking neighbourhood of SHanghai.."

Then learn Chinese, you idiot!

joel

October 18, 2009 07:04 AM

Three years ago, after 30 years of living in delhi, i moved to shanghai. i understand and speak some hindi, but little mandarin. In india, i have been EVERYWHERE. In China: most major cities, and a number of villages/towns.

In India, I owned a furniture factory (large by Indian standards: 2200 workers), in a very small village in Rajasthan. In China, I buy from many furniture factories. In Delhi, I had an office. And now, I have one in Shanghai.

I have read all of the comments in this blog, and feel most of them, miss the point: India has failed so far in its attempt to compete with China, and indeed, it is a competition: for jobs created by starting new businesses, which export, and earn foreign exchange. This, and this alone, has led China to its position as the manufacturing center of the world. China is a major player in the world economy. India is not. Obama’s decision not to meet the Dalai Lama, is just one example of the West’s real sensitivity to China’s “feelings.” The USA makes lots of noises about how close India and the USA are, but what have they done for India, really?
Why is the West interested in India? Only for the potential market for its products: from cola to boeing jets. Does the USA really care about the fact that India is democratic, and China is not? I think, not really. Noises about human rights issues, but no actions. Words are cheap.
Yes, there is no democracy in China. Yes, the internet is censored: facebook has been stopped here since July. Yes, there is corruption, similar to India’s, but it is being actively attacked. Senior government officials are actually executed when caught/convicted (basically, these are the same thing, in china). I cannot remember anyone of significance being even jailed, in India, for corruption. Corruption cases just seem to make headlines one day and then slowly disappear. Did anyone ever go to jail for the Bofors commission scandal?
I read recently that there are 58,000 Chinese working in India. Is India crazy? What can the Chinese workers do that Indians cannot do, at the same cost? At least the USA controls which Indians are allowed to work there: why does not India? Chinese telecom companies have set up in Bangalore. Why is India just giving away its expertise in software and telecom? I am typing this on an IBM laptop, which I bought in the USA: made by Lenovo, in Beijing, which is a mostly government owned company.
Shanghai is slated to become the world’s financial capital, in another 10 years. I think they will achieve this, or at least be equal to New York and London. And the largest port in the world.
The infrastructure being prepared for the Expo next year in Shanghai, compared to what is going on in Delhi for the CWG, is mind-boggling. And now we are fighting with the CWG organizing committee.
But let’s forget the shining China. Let’s just compare typical villages: poor villages. There is electricity everywhere in china, 24/7. India cannot even do this for its capital. When the USA reduced its imports, the Chinese government created jobs for the factory workers retrenched. Infrastructure building jobs.
One measure of what is really going on, is the optimism of the Chinese people, in all economic levels. We just do not have the same in India.
Ok, I have rambled on long enough. I keep reading about India’s potential. But, when will it become a reality, for the janta? And then I read about joel Elliot and the Nizamuddin police station where I lived for 30 years. Will this too be swept under the carpet?
Yes, the Chinese approach of the greatest good for the greatest number does cause many examples of individual harm. But, then, the great masses of china have benefited, enormously.
And the streets are clean. Not like Delhi and Bombay.

freedom lover

October 18, 2009 12:20 PM

The latest twist in the China India debate is water.

The river Brahamaputra is the lifeline of North East India and al most 70 % of the water resource of Bangladesh. There are reports that China is about to build huge dams at it source in Tibet and then divert it to its northern areas.

This would lead to huge escalated tensions between the two countries and would also be against international river flow laws and precedents.

I hope the decision makers in China are wise and would not do anything which disturbs the equilibrium of th environment. It would be an environment catastrophe and a humantarian disaster; this would damage relations between the two countries for ever and potentially starve Bangladesh of all water.

Can my Chinese freinds tell me what the actual ground truth is. We really have to bring the two countries together through this blog. Maybe people to people contact can really do the trick...

Hate "Hate articles"

October 18, 2009 01:45 PM

Mr.Joel,

Where are you from? Are you crazy? You don't have a work? You are great! Owning a big factory with 2200 man power and also have time to comment in this stupid website!!!!
I hope you are not a paid employee of CPC "Comment creation team" which is doing full time job against India!
There are many great persons to comment here that they find India very dirty,ugly,poverty,not hygienic etc., that too they find within one week,even within 2 or 3 days traveling in India! I am wondering about their observation capability!
India or China have their own problems to solve!
Indian infrastructure development may be slow ,but it is better compared with initial road development in China (China started expressway construction at 1988 and completed 7000kms for next 10 years period upto 1997 while India started Road development projects at 2000 and completed about 10000 kms for 8 years period upto 2008), Each developing countries have problem in initial stage, India's performance is far better than China if you compare political system, land actuation problems in both the countries!
There is a foolish argument to compare export oriented economy and still inward looking economy!
India started reform process in 1990's and did better than china in exports compared with China shows her shining export capability from 21st century beginning after started reform process at 1970's!
Here i must share the honesty in business! Indians never like to hurt their partners by copying or imitating their design from A to Z as Chinese businessmen did and doing!
Why TATA's "Nano" is being praised and Chery's "QQ" is being criticized by international media(Even both are small car segment and price worthy)!?
There is some difference between "Innovation" and "Imitation"! That is India and China!
Mr.Joel,
Take this positive things and achievements if you are an Indian, Keep continue your development with your Chinese partners by participating "China's peaceful development" if you are NRI(most of the NRIs always blame India but never participates for India's economy growth except investing in profitable shares), and Keep shut your mouth if you are Chinese or paid employee from CCP Propaganda team!
How a country archived 9% growth for a 3 consecutive years against much diversity of population,poor infrastructure and corrupted politicians?! What will happen if these problems are resolved?!
You should wonder instead finding fault!
That is India's potential!That is positive way of growth in future!
Last but not least!
Here someone using "Hygienic" words very often,
This is about hygienic...
I argue "Hygienic" is individual and should not be initiated by Govt.
I feel comfortable to stand opposite to an Indian villager than a Chinese billionaire! Hygienic is not clean plates,packed foods and wearing modern dress. That is individual who at least brushing their teeth once a day or at least taking bath thrice a week! You can not discuss with a person for long one hour if he don't have a habit to brush his teeth(Even if he is a billionaire)!You can not adjust that smell!
Indian poor villagers no have modern brushes but use neem,banian brushes to keep their tooth clean!That is called hygienic! In India Hygienic is always being way of life(Go and visit Indian villages and observe that how they abide the hygienic way of life, No countries use banana leaf as a plate for food,Using banana leaf is real hygienic and environment friendly). This way of life may struggle in Mumbai slums and some other congested cities underdeveloped parts without proper sanitation for corrupted politicians vote bank politics benefits! But it will change slowly!
But in China, all hotels serve at least two tooth brushes per day for each customer! But no Chinese use them!
So, i argue "Hygienic is individual habit and not Govt initiated job!
I live in Shanghai, I am also one of the victim need to adjust "Hygienic Chinese business men"! It is just for business,I can not express my inability to stand or sit opposite to them, Because i learned in my school to show honesty and to give respect to my opponent! Never i want to hurt my client,That is my fate! (Sorry for hate punch,but that is reality)!

Jeff

October 19, 2009 03:25 AM

Indian hegemony continues to harm relations with neighbors
People’s Daily October 14, 2009

Nobody can deny that today's India is a power. In recent years, Indians have become more narrow-minded and intolerable of outside criticism as nationalism sentiment rises, with some of them even turning to hegemony. It can be proved by India's recent provocation on border issues with China.

Given the country's history, hegemony is a hundred-percent result of British colonialism. Dating back to the era of British India, the country covered a vast territory including present-day India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Bangladesh as well as Nepal. India took it for granted that it could continue to rule the large area when Britain ended its colonialism in South Asia. A previous victim of colonialism and hegemony started to dream about developing its own hegemony. Obsessed with such mentality, India turned a blind eye to the concessions China had repeatedly made over the disputed border issues, and refused to drop the pretentious airs when dealing with neighbors like Pakistan.

Many Indians didn't know that Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of India, had once said that India could not play an inferior role in the world, and it should either be a superpower or disappear.

Although the pursuit of being a superpower is justifiable, the dream of being a superpower held by Indians appears impetuous. The dream of superpower is mingled with the thought of hegemony, which places the South Asian giant in an awkward situation and results in repeated failure.

Throughout the history, India has constantly been under foreign rule. The essence for the rise of India lies in how to be an independent country, to learn to solve the complicated ethnic and religious issues, to protect the country from terrorist attacks, to boost economic development as well as to put more efforts on poverty alleviation.

Additionally, the hegemony can also be harmful in terms of geopolitical environment. The expansion of India is restricted by its geographic locations. It has Himalaya Mountain to its north, a natural barrier for northward expansion; it has Pakistan to the west, a neighbor it is always at odds over the disputed border issues.

To everyone's disappointment, India pursued a foreign policy of "befriend the far and attack the near". It engaged in the war separately with China and Pakistan and the resentment still simmers. If India really wants to be a superpower, such a policy is shortsighted and immature.

India, which vows to be a superpower, needs to have its eyes on relations with neighbors and abandon the recklessness and arrogance as the world is undergoing earthshaking changes. For India, the ease of tension with China and Pakistan is the only way to become a superpower. At present, China is proactively engaging in negotiations with India for the early settlement of border dispute and India should give a positive response.

Its me Its we

October 19, 2009 06:21 AM

Like fools dont talk about olympics and space reseatch. Talk who has better values, better humanity. It is india the glowing nation. All fame to india.

Value

October 19, 2009 06:38 AM

India has value for what it is. Its better china does not fight with us, you chinees are cowards and so fight with other countries.

Never assume that you can take over india, we are equally good in any anything good. dont daydream that you are anyways better.

samyvellu

October 19, 2009 10:36 AM

China can dream on in fighting India. We indians are the most intelligent in the world. Look at what we achieved in USA who depend on us for manpower!

C. H. Ng

October 20, 2009 03:52 AM

@SamyVellu

If Indian people are the most intelligent in the world as you claimed, why is your country still nowhere in the list of world's standing?
And if USA really has to depend on Indian manpower as you claimed, they should bow to you people and call you all "Sir" instead of ALWAYS the other way round!!

Stop fooling yourself as you cannot fool us at all...! Don't make us those who has false teeth dropped off laughing at your stupid comment.

@samyvellu

October 20, 2009 04:31 AM

Indian most intelligent?

Here this sld enlighten you.

Why India Will Never Surpass China

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfY1ISdABSw

supapowa india! so supa! lasergun pew!pew!

freedom lover

October 21, 2009 02:41 AM

I had posted a story on diversion on river waters of the Brahamputra. Surprisingly there has been no comment on it from my Chinese friends. Could I get more info on this??

india

October 22, 2009 05:17 AM

Hi chin frnds,
Why did you occupied the tibet...and then aksai chin..? and now asking for arunachal pradesh. and you people constructed roads, missile centers...I demand you people first go away from tibet.

rishi

October 25, 2009 02:22 AM

You are all from the past.
You will one day realize you are all the same, all human, and that all the rest is trivia. You are ignorant people who, in search of identity, hide behind illusions of difference. China and India are not their armies, their ridiculous GDP numbers, their highways or their governments. They are their people, their history, their aspirations. The more you underline your differences, the more unconscious you are. You are not your regime. You are not your income. You are not your past or your future. You are a soul like almost 7 billion others in earch of expression and liberation. You really believe the future of Mankind will be organized in governments and political borders? Why not stop repeating the same mistakes of chauvinism and petty nationalism? Why not try and express a future of unity in your lives, instead of the ignorance and partiality of your ego? Wake up, life is shorter than you think. Stop filling it with pain and hatred, stop thriving on the illusionary pleasure of hurting those who, only in your ignorance, are different from you.
You want to represent the past that holds on and on, clinging mechanically to anything, just to prevent a new Mankind, united in its diversity?

The_Observer

October 26, 2009 11:51 AM

@freedom lover
I had posted a reply but it seems to have got lost in the internet somewhere.
The commencement of the building a dam across their upper part of the Tsangpo river by China in April this year may have been triggered by India. India approached the ADB long before April, 2009 for a loan for water development projects in AP (including damming of the Brahmaputra which would affect Bangladesh down river). The Chinese considered AP contested territory while the Indians consider it their territory. The Indian administration probably thought that this would add legitimacy to their occupation of the AP. The Chinese raised the issue with the ADB but in Aug but the ADB approved the general development loans to India. China then managed to get many of the countries on the board of the ADB to agree to a “disclosure agreement,” which prevents the ADB from formally acknowledging and notifying Arunachal Pradesh as part of India. India subsequently stated that the water projects in AP would be self-financed. The Chinese no longer felt it necessary to keep any of their dam building plans on hold with respect to India’s concerns. Since India was going to build dams on the rivers in AP, China felt it could do so on her parts of the rivers and she is going to build 5 if the reports are true. There is currently nothing India can do as she has no water-sharing agreements with China and no proper de-lineated borders. Even if she decided to divert the Tsangpo River waters and not just use it locally in Tibet, the Chinese could still argue that they since South Tibet is theirs, the water is flowing through their territory, abeit under Indian occupation, and that when they get it back, they'll talk to Bangladesh about a water-sharing agreement. With this the Chinese have shown that they have the upper(-river) hand and all without firing a shot by either side. The Indians started something with their water-plans in AP which they will now either have to retract with a big loss of face or negotiate with China for an overall border/water-sharing agreement. My bet is on the latter.

freedom lover

October 27, 2009 02:15 AM

Hey! I still await a response from my Chinese friends.

To recap, the story is somewaht like this.

The river Brahamaputra is the lifeline of North East India and al most 70 % of the water resource of Bangladesh. There are reports that China is about to build huge dams at it source in Tibet and then divert it to its northern areas.

This would lead to huge escalated tensions between the two countries and would also be against international river flow laws and precedents.

I hope the decision makers in China are wise and would not do anything which disturbs the equilibrium of the environment. It would be an environment catastrophe and a humantarian disaster; The HImalayas could dry out and the world would be warmer, if we were to tap the icy glaciars. It would lead to a huge international climate change....

This would damage relations between the two countries for ever and potentially starve Bangladesh of all water.

C'mon Chinese friends... let us save the world. Let us inform your govenrment not to do anything which destroys the mountains and the sea ....

freedom lover

November 2, 2009 01:44 AM

Dear Observer,

Thx for your rants against India, Tibet, humanity and Bangladesh. Just shows that in quest of material prosperity ,SOME CHinese are willing to deprive the world of all resources , including water and clean environment.

I am sure the younger generation will be different if they get a freedom of mind to making aour planet a better place. China today shares borders with many countries. HOw would the Chinese feel in case any of the countries were to throw toxic waste around it??

What I am trying to get at is that this is world which belongs to all of us.The planet earth belongs to all of us, not to just a few. In fact it also belongs to our future generations also. THere is a saying in HInduism that "the earth is what we have inherited from our ancestors and have to hand on to our descendents..."

Maybe China is too obsessed with material things to understand this.

The earlier CHinese hydro project at Three Gorges is causing ENVIRONMENTAL problems in CHINA. Maybe if you have a little IQ, you can study the hydro impacts, upstream and downstream. And also the salinity and imapcts on your lakes.

This project is the worst dream of a boorish mind; ok you have no love for the environment today... but will your future generations survive in case you liquify the Himalayas??

The_Observer

November 2, 2009 01:50 PM

@Freedom Lover
I was just giving you the facts to the loaded question you posed.
In reply I'm saying, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." India was going to dam the parts of rivers in South Tibet and deprive Bangladesh of the water. The Chinese further up-river can do so likewise.

Freedom Lover

November 3, 2009 07:05 AM

Dear Observer, there is a dam first and then the river may be diverted.How would China feel if the countries around it damned the sea water and prevernted it from reaching China?

@F Lover

November 3, 2009 02:20 PM

China doesn't give a dam to what you think, move on.

observer@India

November 9, 2009 08:22 AM

Hi Indian Guys,
Don't argue with Chinese people. I heard that they like Indians well. The problem is with the rulers, who are greedy to rule the world. Any way It can't be happened.
And think that we have the problems with china only with the border issues. not like pakistan who always wants to destroy India with community causes etc....

did you observed the past...?
Nothing is permanent. So wait the Chinese rulers become weaker...
Automatically they will loose Tibet....
They will not be having strength to fight with south Korea, Thai wan etc...

So don't worry, wait for your turn

Nigel

November 11, 2009 07:17 PM

This argument is really pointless, China is ahead of India currently. India is hopelessly outmatched; Brazil, Australia and Spain have larger economies with less than 1/10th the population. But who knows it may change in the future. But from a Westerner's perspective I think I would much rather live in China than India

freedom lover

November 14, 2009 01:56 AM

Dear everyone, including the most vitriolic and chauvinist...

The earth belongs to all of us. And if China builds dams in the Himalayas, it is going to liquify the mountains for a few megawatts of electircity; the environmental aspects of the three gorges dams are open for evryone to study.

It would further block waters from Bangladesh and India; is this resposible eco sustaining behaviour??

let us find answers to this...

mongol

November 17, 2009 05:17 AM

hi Drear Mr. Indians,

it is sad that chinese are not answering to ur question.they must be busy on works.
so Mr. indians go to work cause gap is increasing.

somewhere above i read that india constitute of Dravidians,mongols and
Aryans.

i would like to correct it. there is
only dravidians and mongols races in
india which has 100% originality reat
are hybrid.

so call aryan it is totally bullshit.
fantasy of many indian to hide there
bastardizes.

hahaha..if indians are aryan entire
muslim and east europeans are aryans.
or aryans of india must have migrated thro Air india 1000 years ago...

anticipating manipulated answers...

IQGap

November 18, 2009 12:49 AM

What to debate? IQ gap too huge, No way East Asian ppl with IQ 105++ can talk reasons with indian which is only have an IQ of 80+

That is a 20+ points of gap...HUGE diff and mentality

:)

MaheshB

November 20, 2009 03:04 PM

November 20, 2009
The emotional nonsense from some Indians and Chinese in this discussion merely exhibit how eager they must be to share their respective filths.
When I look at the vital statistics I find India and China poles apart, particularly in the areas of cleanliness and hygiene. I also observe Indians being extremely obsessed with China, while it is not true other way around. If Indians wish to see themselves as being respected by others first they better accept their own reality. Widespread perception is that Indians are:
Malnourished
Do not know how to hold reasonable discussions
Are unwilling to see things as they are and accept responsibility
At slightest provocation become angry and violent
Socially intolerant and perhaps the most dirty people in the world
Are not willing to keep their surroundings clean, and have no sense of hygiene, and
Are full of themselves.
China today is at behest the hard work of its own people. I do not condone the practices that the Chinese society uses in imparting justice, but some of the steps it took in wiping out the age old feudalism were correct and they are paying off handsomely. On the other hand, in India the most inhuman disease of feudalism flourishes as an accepted epidemic. Should India ever wish to command respect and solve its horrendous social ills, the country must impose Chinese type of discipline.
As an Indian, while it does not please me to say such things, yet I am not coward to first accept the things as they are and then do whatever I possibly can.

indian

November 20, 2009 03:15 PM

Yaa we have iq of 80...lol!!
and u have 105 i suppose....!!great!!
just go to silicon valley,usa..
calculate the number of ppl dere in super intellect drive which has changed the world.
u must be typing this iq shit on a pc and os designed by indian ppl!!
this just 1/1000 of india .
wait for 20 years dude we ll be up dere
calculating ur iq !!and teaching u eng u chinos

C. H. Ng

November 20, 2009 09:53 PM

I do not wished to be invovled in this stupid debate (if I want to put it in a nice way) or mindless war mongering (which I think it's a better word) between the Chinese & Indians.

To the Mainlander Chinese -- Yes you have accomplished alot during the last 30 years so much so your country will soon overtake Japan as the world's 2nd largest economy. Yes you can be proud of your archievements but please do not look down on your neighbours who are still in the situations where your older generation was before. Humbleness will propel you & China to even greater height whereas too much pride will bring your downfall.

To the Indians -- Stop bragging about your would-be future greatness & your country's position as the largest democracy in the world...it's all bullits & count for nothing when millions of your people still lack proper toilets, suffer from homeless & malnutrition, caste discrepancy & etc.
As an Indian himself, Mr ManeshB couldn't have stated it more clearly when he openly furnished the trufacts about his own people. Please bear in mind the rest of the world will only stood up & take notice of your country when you have eradicated many of your shortcomings. Until then, you & your country count for nothing in the world's social standing. You can argue till all the cows came home but the fact will still remains a fact.

The_Observer

November 21, 2009 04:21 PM

See the article below from the Indian newspaper, The Financial Express, giving a warning to the USA and India.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/-Win-in-China--maker-gives-West-a-wake-up-call/544609/

It is about a movie on China's entrepreneurial class made by Robert Compton who also produced the now famous documentary, 2 Million Minutes. China is making moves on the traditionally innovation domain of the USA, European countries, Japan, Korea and Israel.
The world is going to be a different place in 10 years time let alone 25 years from now. My child is already learning Mandarin in this very English speaking home.

USA or EU or whatever have no right to critisize human rights of China

November 22, 2009 09:01 AM

Chinese people can only rely on oursevles to gain a better future !
EU USA OR WHATEVER have no rights to
say any word to us
long term , you are just robbing us , stealing us , attack us , break wars against us , you never help us , you never care about if we are poor or die .
now we developped , you say this and that upon the history and millions of gilties you have done upon us !!
Shame on you !

chinese teenager

November 25, 2009 12:25 PM

I think we chinese still have many things to do.it's useless to tell others you are powerful. do it and make it then others will respect you .

Cguo

November 26, 2009 01:43 AM

I think it's quite normal that Indian like to compare India with China. Just like Chinese like to compare China with other developed countries. It's quite positive if the purpose is to find the gap then know what to do next, but it often goes to the wrong side - try to get themselves feel better with good self-deception skills.

Both China and India nation has suffered enough long time of miserable history. Please do not aiming at each other when the life is getting a little better.

I'm a Chinese. Frankly, I don't think most Chinese would take India as rival, because we don't have the tradition to target at someone other than the No.1. Indian has the potential and should try to keep the same ambition.

Unbelieveable

November 26, 2009 04:41 AM

pointless, meaningless, brainless, hopeless, helpless comparison.

Freedom, yes, right, India may have great system, so-called democracy, but it is not implemented properly. How can ppl vote without proper understanding on policy if they can't read or write or think independently? Ppl have right to move around with out permission, one of basic human right, but they don't have money and place to move around. Ppl have right to have as many babies as they wish, but they can't provide the place/enough food for them to live/stay/educate.

We respect the fact, only fact, no just saying so.

Learning from better practices. China needs to improve/adjust their system. India needs to improve their attitude too. Being positive to face their own problem and help all original people, not just elite or richer.

LAKSHMAN PRAKASH

November 26, 2009 08:37 AM

HEY A COUNTRY WHICH IS BEHIND SHALL NOT BE ALWAYS BEHIND AND A COUNTRY WHICH IS UP SHALL NOT BE ALWAYS UP!!!!!!!!
ONLY THE COUNTRY WHICH HAS AND SUPPORTS FREEDOM, KIND HEARTED TO ITS PEOPLE AND OTHER NATIONS PEOPLE, WHERE JUSTICE IS PRESENT, WHICH LOVES PEACE, MORALITY, COURAGE(IT MEANS FIGHTING AGAINST EVIL(I DONT THINK SOMEBODY NEEDS EXPLNTN FOR THIS TOO)) , CARING ABOUT EARTH, LISTENING AND SEEING THE JUSTICE AT THE OTHER SIDE OF ENEMY ENDURANCE, RESISTIVITY AGAINST PEOPLE WELFARE..
A COUNTRY WHICH HAS UTMOST THE ABOVE QUALITIES WILL ONLY CHERISH BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE WHTEVER THE COUNTRY HAVE COME UP IN VARIOUS FIEDS A WAR NOW WILL SET THEM 1000 YEARS BEYOND THEIR WORKS WILL ALL BECOME WASTE AND PEOPLE TOO WILL DIE SO THINK PEOPLE OF BOTH COUNTRIES LEFTING THEIR EGOS AS IF THEY ARE GODS!!!!!!!! OUR UNIVERSE ITSELF A SMALL ONE IN THAT WHERE IS EARTH AND WHERE ARE U R EGOS OR MAD IDEAS OR THESE THEORETICAL CALCULATIONS ON MAGAZINES FIRST START SAVING EARTH FROM THIS GLOBAL WARMING,VULCANOE.... THEN WE CAN THINK ABOUT BLOODY CYCHO WARS SUPREMACY DIPLOMACY DEMOCRACY AND ATTCRACY FIRST UR HUMMANS REMEMBER THAT THE SOLDIERS OF OTHER COUNTRY WERE SIMILAR TO OURS FIGHTING DUE TO THE UNCIVILISED MENTALLY ILL LEADERS OF THE COUNTRIES. THINK ABOUT 2012 AND THE ONENESS OF THE WORLD AND UNIVERSE......TOOOOOOOOO

chineseteenagerTM

November 26, 2009 09:04 AM

last night I submitted my comment by my cellphone and I thought I failed.But today I find it here!that was the first time i have ever submit a comment in English.I aways wonder why there are so many debates like this on internet that i even can find them in some chinese websites.they are translated into chinese and we treat them like jokes.in china we are always told that we have many troubles to face,so never should we be arrogant.I think indian should try to focus on there own businese and work hard for it,rather than belittle others.

Rishi Muni

November 29, 2009 03:57 AM

american4peace said on March 1, 2009 01:14 AM
“It's despicable that the western media keeps pitching the India-vs-China game for the sake of the media, or something more sinister. Don't be fools, my Indian, Chinese friends.”
It is not the western media, but Indians who are obsessed with this China vs India thing. The Indian media is obsessed with China, while in China, India is ignored and at best regarded as a backward/ primitive land with exotic and beautiful culture. That is all.
freedom lover said on October 14, 2009 07:52 AM
“Love your Muslims and blacks...”
Muslims are treated fairly well in China. And when did black people become Chinese? Are you an idiot?
Indians, leave the Chinese alone. Develop your India and do whatever you like, they do not care. The average Chinese people do not care and never will. India is a non-entity for the Chinese. If India becomes a superpower, the Chinese will still not care. Indians and Chinese people have similarities as they are all Asians and have similar values. But Chinese people have much much more in common (both racially and culturally) with the Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians and Vietnamese than they have with Indians. Similarly Indians are more similar to Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans and Nepalese. Chinese and Indians are nothing alike except that they have big populations. Comparing them is like comparing a potatoes with apples. Any aggression shown by China towards India is due to the communist party leadership. Most Chinese do not care.
And as far as the IQ debate, it has repeatedly been proven that China has a higher AVERAGE IQ than India. Indians obviously do not like this fact as they do not score well. But it remains a fact
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft.htm

http://www.amerika.org/wp-content/uploads/iq_and_the_wealth_of_nations.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png
(note it is about the native populations of the lands, so the IQ of Australia is that of the aboriginal Australians and not of the White people, same with the Americas and New Zealand.)
As I had explained, the Chinese have much more in common with people like the Japanese and Koreans than with Indians.

There is no comparison between India and China as the average IQ gap is massive.

Agastya- Aussie

December 1, 2009 12:03 AM

To me most of this debate is being made on baseless assumptions.
To me both China an India have come a long way through and they still have a very long way to go.
If the Chinese or the Indians debating about hatered towards each other,I have a question.
Is it the hatred towards the people the way they look,or Is it the hatred towards a poor man who works all day to give their family food atleast one time a day.or Is it it being jealous or fear of being overtaken some day.
To me its just the boundary which differentiates both the countries.
To me in future rather boasting about their superior warfare technologies India and China should one day boast about their respective citizens not short of protein food at least three times a day, a Eco-safe house with a toilet and decent clothing.Till then there is no point boasting about clean roads, high rise buildings and able to speak good English,,,when a considerably big population is suffering on the other hand in both the countries.
GROW UP

Prashanth

December 14, 2009 04:22 PM

I am an Indian.

-We Indians have to come out of this state of denial soon and accept reality and stop giving speeches/advices.
-I think the chinese rulers hate indians more than chinese people.
- Give due credit to the chinese wherever it is due because they have really worked hard.
-Indians too have some good points so the chinese should stop thinking themselves better.
-There has been no conflict between these two great civilizations for long. Only when the communists came to power did the trouble start.
-Hope this discussion stops soon :(

China-Big-Man

January 4, 2010 09:34 PM

I am chinese, India is a great country. I love india.

Do not attack each other, only ignorant fools like saliva war.


For the democracy, I prefer reform to revolution.

friend IN-CH

January 6, 2010 03:23 AM

hi everyone
y DOESENT ANYONE REALIZE THAT INDIAN AND CHINESE CULTURES R VERY VERY RICH,FAMILY AND SOCIAL BONDING ETC.BOTH THE COUNTRIES WERE AND ARE VERY RICH BUT INVADERS MADE INDIA POOR DURING INDEPENDENCE.INDIAN ARE CHINESE RELATIONS WERE GOOD BUT NOW RELATIONS R BITTER ONLY TO A BAASTARD COUNTRY CALLED "PAKISTAN".
EVEN THOUTH CHINA HAS 3/4 OF TIBET IT IS NOT SATISFIED AND WANTS TO CRUSH BUDDHISM BY LAYING CLAIM OVER ARUNACHAL PRADESH.
I DONT KNOW WHY CHINA IS INTERFERING IN KASHMIR AND HELPING SEPARATISTS.

VERY GREEDY CHINA
BHARAT MATA KI JAI

Ab

January 13, 2010 04:12 PM

I am an Indian. Thx all Chinese ppl u hav opened my eyes with ur propaganda. All hail china. "Oh me so powerful, me rule the world long time"

Indian

January 15, 2010 06:52 AM

A tiger is fed well in a zoo but it would always want to hunt or starve if necessary in a forest . This is called freedom . Learn from Tiger my high IQed chinese friends .

Democracy and republic are not imported to india from west . Harappa and Mohonjodaro were democarcies in 2000BC!

Indians are peace loving people . Whoever invaded India, made india their home and lived since then . Culturally rich! .

We drove off British because we were idelogically better,in our struggle for freedom . it is difficult to fight with non- volience than with machine-guns .And this is indegenious we did not import communism from west . you idiots dont even have ideology of your own

Please be informed that india was very good economically .
Greeks during the ancient times , Europeans dring the medivial came in search of India to beg for buisness . The britishers have wreked havoc on indian economy. And thats the reason why we are competing with ppl like you now.

Dont forget that we are at the worst in the history and you are at your best. Dont think we cant beat you just because you are ahead of us for the fist time is 4000 years old history .

Indian

January 23, 2010 04:00 AM

Chinese are noting but arrogant fools . The success that they are showing the world is the success of few people who are governing . Chinese are like worker bees ment to work . they forget their history in just a decade . During initial years India considered China as a friend . But those fools would hardly understand friendship . I have never seen a chinese love story!. They are ment to fight and work

Rational Mind

January 23, 2010 11:48 PM

One thing is proven. The Indians talk a lot, have a sense of superiority and try to attribute past, present successes to their culture whether proven or otherwise. I have had contact with many Indians, my conclusion, they are hard working, though not as much as Chinese, but more than that they are manipulative. Just to clarify, manuipulative does not necessarily mean deceptive.

Plato said that a truly wise man never claims that he knows the truth about everything — he knows better. An Indian will almost always claim to be the best and know what is wrong or right.

SO India has made some progress on the back of 1+ Billion people and outsourcing from US. Probability says that you will have quite a few very intelligent and hardworking people in such a large population anyway. An when a lot of these people found too much competition in their own country they went looking for fertile grounds in US and other places. Yes, many have risen to high positions in Fortune 500 companies but quite a few have been disgraced such as Raj Raganathan and Computer Associates ex CEO. Everyone knows that the current CEO of Citigroup is a lameduck CEO who took up the job because no one else would.

I am not a Western European but will attest to the fact that more progress has been made in Western Europe and US in the past 500+ years than any time in history anywhere else. India and China would not even be familiar with the words ‘technology’ or ‘Internet’ if it were not for the Western Europeans. The current advancement in Science and Arts is mostly owed to them. Once I was reading a list of scientific discoveries in India by an Indian author and the only significant discovery he related to India was the Invention of the number ‘0′.

Yes, the British have been brutal in their colonial role but they have been the best scientists also. So goes for the Germans and the French and others. So, my Indian and Chinese Friends, yes, you invented the gunpowder and the number ‘0′ but that’s where it ended. Come up with something new and original or shut up and go back to copying inventions from the west and manning the lowly Call Centers (also called outsouring).

sarthak

February 9, 2010 03:41 AM

indian tigers going for hunting.
save your dragon

buttercookies

February 13, 2010 12:53 PM

The author is laughing!!

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BusinessWeek’s team of Asia reporters brings you the latest insights on business, politics, technology and culture from some of the world’s biggest and fastest-growing economies. Eye on Asia’s bloggers include Asia regional editor Bruce Einhorn, Tokyo reporter Ian Rowley, Korea bureau chief Moon Ihlwan, Asia News Editor and China Bureau Chief. Dexter Roberts, and Hong Kong-based Asia correspondent Frederik Balfour.

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