One part of idle chit chat with a French manufacturer about its products becomes a top new title in business week? Worthless junk pretending to be news worthy. This is BSweek.com

Frederik Balfour, have you, an "expert" on Chinese issues, heard of China's DFH-4 satellite platform? China had wrong strategy: Do launching service for westerner-made (Actually mainly US-made) satellites. But until 1989, US suddenly applied technology enbargo on satellite to China. China since then lost the market share for the launching service. Any who, China decided to develop our own modern satellite platform, that is DFH 4. It can run 15 years on the orbit. China launched the first one that failed, then for Nigara, succeeded. Just a few days ago, China launched one for Venezuela, and signed another contract with Pakistan. With more we shoot into the space, our satellite will be more mature. China now is one of very few countries that can build modern satellites, and provide launching services. BTW, don't forget China's last failure of lanuching happened more than 10 years ago, since then, China shoot more than 100 times, all were successful. This reliability is rare today.

Another thing is that the trends of western world don't apply on China always. Yes, US is slow down, but China herself is a big market, our economy is still growing at 9%+ rate, we need more and more satellites for remote areas. We don't only need satellites for telecom, military, public services. We are building our own global positioning system (Beidou or Compass) that could be better than GPS since it can transfer data among users, that means you can send messages to your friends. Latest reports said 12 Beidou satellites will be sent to space next year or so.

China has just launched a communication satellite for Venezuela and the service life of the satellite is 15 years! China had done similar launch for Nigeria and Brazil.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/10/30/venezuela.satellite/
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Venezuela's first satellite roared into space Thursday from a launching pad in southwest China.
A rocket carrying a Venezuelan satellite blasts off early Thursday from southwestern China's Sichuan province.

A rocket carrying a Venezuelan satellite blasts off early Thursday from southwestern China's Sichuan province.

The telecommunications satellite will let rural communities in Venezuela access educational and medical information that has been difficult for them to come by as a result of their relative isolation, said Rodolfo Navaro, technical manager for the Bolivarian Space Activity Agency.

"It is not focused on commercial ends, but on providing a service to the communities which have never enjoyed a modern communication system," he said, according to the Bolivarian News Agency.

"Aboriginal communities, for instance, would receive long-distance education, or maybe they would request medicines, air or river ambulance service, medical checkups, among other options."

A Chinese rocket carrying the satellite lifted off early Thursday from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwestern China's Sichuan province, according to an account in China's state-run news agency, Xinhua.

The satellite is designed to last 15 years, the agency said.

President Hugo Chavez announced after taking office that Venezuela would send crafts into space, and the country spent $241 million in five years to develop the Simon Bolivar Satellite, named for the general whose military victories led to independence from Spain for several South American nations in the early 1800s.
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* France, Venezuela mull nuclear energy deal

Chavez referred to the satellite's launch as a key step toward greater scientific and technological independence for Venezuela, the Bolivarian News Agency reported.

The satellite will have the ability to cover the Caribbean, Centra BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Venezuela's first satellite roared into space Thursday from a launching pad in southwest China.
A rocket carrying a Venezuelan satellite blasts off early Thursday from southwestern China's Sichuan province.

A rocket carrying a Venezuelan satellite blasts off early Thursday from southwestern China's Sichuan province.

The telecommunications satellite will let rural communities in Venezuela access educational and medical information that has been difficult for them to come by as a result of their relative isolation, said Rodolfo Navaro, technical manager for the Bolivarian Space Activity Agency.

"It is not focused on commercial ends, but on providing a service to the communities which have never enjoyed a modern communication system," he said, according to the Bolivarian News Agency.

"Aboriginal communities, for instance, would receive long-distance education, or maybe they would request medicines, air or river ambulance service, medical checkups, among other options."

A Chinese rocket carrying the satellite lifted off early Thursday from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwestern China's Sichuan province, according to an account in China's state-run news agency, Xinhua.

The satellite is designed to last 15 years, the agency said.

President Hugo Chavez announced after taking office that Venezuela would send crafts into space, and the country spent $241 million in five years to develop the Simon Bolivar Satellite, named for the general whose military victories led to independence from Spain for several South American nations in the early 1800s.
Don't Miss

* France, Venezuela mull nuclear energy deal

Chavez referred to the satellite's launch as a key step toward greater scientific and technological independence for Venezuela, the Bolivarian News Agency reported.

The satellite will have the ability to cover the Caribbean, Central America and parts of South America, the agency said

Balfour please do some more research before publishing or you will look like a misinformed and you would be spreading disinformation on BusinessWeek and your editor need to do more due diligence.
Here is link from NASA about the type of satellites launches done by China and their rocket used.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/news/chinese/

Also, please investigate more on the Long March 5 and when this enter in service it will be comparable to the Delta IV Heavy, Atlas V, Ariane 5, Angara A5, Proton, and Falcon 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_5_rocket_family

The Chinese satellites probably last only 5 yrs compare to 18 yrs of western ones, but the prices of Chinese satellites are also much lower than western ones. So do your math before deciding which one to buy.

What he did not mention is that INDIA is far more advanced than CHINA in the relevant areas of space technology. ISRO comm-sats last 12 years each and there are about a dozen in orbit. Also, ISRO and ARIANE have teamed up to launch before the end of this year a commsat called W2M, an advanced bird with 26 Ku band transponders.
So while China exports junk to Pakistan and Venezuela, ISRO exports to EUROPE.. which should give you a pretty good idea of the relative tech levels!

The VeneSatI that CHINA launched for Venezuela will last 15 years so I don't know where the writer of this article gets his information from.

Right you are, Rob! Here are the details of W2M satellite, with ISRO I3K bus and Euro transponders:

http://www.wirelessdesignasia.com/article-1699-eutelsatselectseadsastriumisroallianceforw2msatellite-Asia.html

Eutelsat Selects EADS Astrium-ISRO Alliance for W2M Satellite
(Business News & Technology News, 28 Feb 2006)

Eutelsat Communications has selected an industrial partnership combining the expertise of EADS Astrium and ISRO, the Indian Space Research Organisation, to build a telecommunications satellite called W2M.
W2M will operate typically 26 transponders in Ku-band and up to 32 depending on operational modes, for a designed operational lifetime of 15 years. The new satellite is designed to provide additional security for customers and can be deployed at a number of orbital positions of the W satellite fleet, and in particular at the 10 degrees East position.
According to the terms of the agreement, W2M will be delivered to Eutelsat in 26 months for launch in the second quarter of 2008. This order is the first one resulting from the alliance of European EADS Astrium and Indian ANTRIX, the commercial arm of ISRO. EADS Astrium is prime contractor in charge of overall program management and will design and build the communications payload. ANTRIX/ISRO will supply the satellite bus, based on the flight proven I3K model, and integrate and test the spacecraft. The W2M spacecraft will have a launch mass of about 3 tons and payload power of about 4 kW. W2M is the 13th satellite commissioned by Eutelsat from EADS Astrium.

http://www.eutelsat.com/news/compress/en/2006/pdf/PR%200506%20W2M.pdf

Balfour so you wrote this whole article and made a full assumption on Chinese satellite capability by just 30 minutes talk? Well, I would not be surprised if most of your articles that you have published in BusinessWeek must be based on shallow research like this article of yours. Thank you for confirming what we already suspected long time ago and you muist think that your audience must be people with little knowledge so they can not spot your error and over-generalization!

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=560197#p560197
vishwakarmaa
Post subject: Re: Chandrayan-1 mission launched succesfully
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2008 05:50 pm
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Posts: 232
prashanth wrote:
Highly probable. One the one hand US does not allow any satellite that has US' components in it to be launched by Indian rockets. Here they give us a 100 million dollar mini-SAR, which is a highly sensitive instrument. Israel used the same tech for its spy sat. Hope ISRO is careful.

The thing which pushed NASA to co-operate with ISRO was the realization that they might not only miss out on this valuable opportunity offered by India if they don't become part of Indian moon mission, but also it might lead them into isolation.

NASA has shown pragmatism by being co-operative with ISRO shedding its traditional shyness with sensitive technologies. Nobody can grow in isolation however big or strong he is. Ultimately, he needs to be humble to appreciate such a mission which is beneficial for future of humanity.

The point is, mini-SAR or big-SAR, it doesn't matter anymore. That era is over when few used to maintain monopoly over technology. Such monopolies doesn't help development of humanity. The participation of NASA although in a small and partial manner, shows the percolation of this understanding amongst them.

I am sure, in future missions, we will see NASA co-operating in a more confident and open manner.

wow, simply amazing. this eye on asia blog is simply trash. it's just some old white guy whining about everything. balfour and the rest of the eye on asia staff are just pathetic

Thanks to JCage and others who have done a better job on their homework than I have. I hope Monsieur Le Gall will also take note of your comments. All the information in my blog [not to be confused with a regular Businessweek story which does involve more due diligence] was attributed to Le Gall, and not necessarily viewed as gospel. Thanks to your comments, the subsequent readers get a more accurate picture of the story. That's the beauty of Web 2.0. The readers learn more and, the WRITER also learns at the same time. But do try to remember that BLOGS are just that: Web Logs, and should not be confused with full fledged articles. I deliberately use a more conversational and irreverent tone in my blogs so they won't be mistaken as regular stories that appear in our magazine and on our website.

The relative advances made by India and China are not without reason. India has better technology in communication satellites as its space programme has always been dogged with low budget and intense focus on utility. China's space programme on the other hand has always been skewed towards demonstration of national pride and power. Furthermore, China does not have the stomach to accept India's advancements.

This blog title is about China aerospace industry and nothing related to India ones so why all the Indian readers felt belittled and shocked?!
It is insecurity, inferiority and superiority complex toward other Asian people?
By the way, "EADS Astrium is prime contractor in charge of overall program management and will design and build the communications payload" the company that R & D and build and tested the W2M communication satellite and the India job is just to launch to the space. China has been doing that for many years ago for Western countries before the tech embargo.

Indians here are just lanughing stock. Let me tell you:
China develops our own satellites that can last 15 years in space.
India's 12 years even with key components from western world.

China can send spacecraft that weighs 8.5 tons to low orbit, India is still dreaming.

China's self-developed rockets can shoot satellite that weights more than 4 tons into geostationary orbit (for telecomm satellites).

India' GSLV can only lift 2.5 ton telecom satellites even with the cryogenic engines from Russia. Even ISRO claimed its cryogenic engine successful many times, but still can not be put in a real rocket. China developed our own 20 or 30 year ago.

India's GSLV rockets are still not reliable. No match with China's rocket at all. China's lastest more than 110 times of shooting were all successful.

India even could not track its own missles. This year, india tested its own so-called snbmarine missile and even don't know where it went. That made all the world laugh. Of course, Indians cliamed it was a big success. This time India has to get help from NASA for tracking.

Hey buddy [STEVEN] first put your house in order. Fix the basic issues like tainted Milk, SARS, etc

Lets see if your Chinese media is allowed to talk about anything scandalous. You guys are pathetic

Then we can talk about technology

@@Steven,

First, you need a nickname before .
second, your country needs to get enough food before talking technology.

India has a lot more issues than China. but they are ignored by this world since India can be ignored. When the world is focusing on China, our problems are always exposed.

Even with the taint milk and SARS, Chinese can live almost 10 years longer in China than you indians in India

Anyway, off topic though. Here is talking about China's space technology and even the author had some numbers wrong in the article, he definitely did not mention india. You Indians just hijacked threat.

Give you some data about China's DFH-4 telecomm satellite platform:
1. It is designed and made by ourselves.
No such co-operation (actually mainly done by others)
2. Lifetime of 15 years.
3. Weight of 5.2 tons. (Only rockets from US, France, Russia and China and lift it.)
4. Can install up to 52 transponders( C-band, Ku-band , Ka-band and L-band) depending on different user demands and configurations.
5. Output power of 10KW at the end of it service.
6. China sold 3 of satellites based on the platform in the international market already.
7. China will shoot more for ourselves.

We designed it, we make it, we shoot it. You pay the money, we give you the key for using the whole system. HAHAHA!

China has the all required technology to build CZ-5 rockets。 It is modular design. So, different module combinations have different capacity. It can lift 12 tons of telecomm satellites to geostationary orbits or 25 tons of satellites (mianly for military) or space stations (China's Shenzhou spacecrafts can actually operate as space station).

China built our launching pads in western remote areas for security concerns since they were built in 1960s and 1970s when China did not feel safe enough. We build our rockets in Shanghai and Beijing and then transport them to launching sites by trains. But the railway tunals tunnels put a limit on the rocket diameter.

Now, China is safe enough, we decided to build a new launching site in Hainan island, and the Rockets will be built in the coastal city Tianjin. The rockets will be moved to Hainan by vessels. So diameter limits on rockets are gone. The new launching pad will be ready in 2014 or earlier since we need spend money to boost our economy. The new site is also more close to equater and a lot of rocket fules can be saved or lifting capacity can be increased.

@Steven

How about Indian's bride/wife burning? 1.2 million female enfants murder by parents a year, Indian's untouchables? Western median is biased against China, but that doesn't mean Indians were problem free.

If Indians only had Chinese problem, you will behave like bipolar on maniac spell. You are a disgusting idiot.

Since the U.S. forces its allies not to export any technology to China for decades and blackmail China countless times about the use of nuclear bombs to kill billions of Chinese (peace-loving Americans???), China should stop exporting all rare elements, which are needed for missiles, to the western world.

!!!!!!!!!CHINA SHOULD STOP EXPORT those rare elements!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Steven,

Looks like you suffer from inferiority complex. Remember USSR and USA space race in the 1950s and 1960s. The first man on space was put by the Soviets. Yet it is USA that finally won out.

Nobody here is saying that China is not ahead in certain areas. The focus of discussion was that both India and China are ahead on different areas and for specific reasons. Anyway, spending 10 times more and being two times ahead is nothing to be proud of. As I have said before China does not have the courage to accept India's advancements. See how China opposed the India-US Nuclear deal at the NSG meeting. The reality is China views India as its only threat. The only country that matches China in terms of scale and capability is India. Both India and China know this. However, what both (more so China) need to understand that no one can ever be the sole superpower. One will have to contend with the other. It is inevitable.

I have always believed democracies are slow, sloppy, noisy and inefficient, yet eventually they win out. A good example was the USA vs. USSR space race.

To Newbie,
The USA was certainly not slow and sloppy in the space race with USSR. Within 10 years, it managed to mount an effort to land a man on the moon and using 1960s technologies too! Even with using today's technologies and computers, it would a feat for any nation to land a man on the moon.

And even back then, the USA with its capitalist economy was much richer than Soviet Russia.

So I don't see what you are driving at comparing India with China in the space race. India is not even half as rich as China to be able to afford it!

To Frederik Balfour

Thank for the clarification but still this is a blog in a world famous magazine and your reputation are that give this blog some validity as opposed from the run of the mill blog that we see on the internet.
What you are spreading is misconception and simply wrong information about Chinese aerospace capability so you are just reinforcing that Chinese are only good at cheap stuff and have very little R & D capability. Chinese science and technology is definitely behind OECD countries and it will take China decades to catch up with the OECD in term of technology but that does not mean that one would write a blog on a magazine to put down other people achievement even when one does not agree with other countries political system. The Cold war is Over!!!

To Indians readers
First congratulation on the success of your Chandrayan-1 launch!

Second, this blog is about discussion on Chinese Aerospace and it has nothing to do with Indian's one. The world does not revolve around India so get used to it!

Finally, just because India democracy is slow, sloppy, inefficient, and noisy does not mean that all democracies in the world are like the one in India! Please don't compare India with the USA that is the greatest countries in the world in term of standard of living, science and tech, military and even financially! The USA has been pretty efficient due to its can do attitude!

Hey Commentator,

You don't have to be rich to be clever.

India can send a moon mission for US $ 80 Million, if China spends twice that amount, then that's their problem, not India's. After all that hype (and big budget), the lead that China gets (over India) is less than 3 years.

Commentator,

Have you heard of the term 'frugal engineering"? That's why India could do a moon mission for under $80 million. It cost China over $ 150 million to do the same.

That's why it is India that came up with Nano. Another example of Frugal Engineering.....

Give Mr Frederik Balfour a pat on the shoulder, not bad..a simple topic like this regardless of intention towards china; one cannot ignore that the indians are ever so eager to jump into the spotlight for whatever reasons whenever china is being mentioned. I see alot of un-realistic, fabricated personnal opinion coming from indian.

The topic was started with the spotlight on China then suddenly indian jumps in and starts thumping their chest yellin the tarzan yell of theirs, then suddenly u got 20++ comments coming in ...all in all...not bad...heheh

It is no surprise that China does not like to be compared to India. In case of any comparison, it goes at length to harp upon the point that it is ahead of India. Furthermore, geo-political compulsions make China look down upon any of India's advancements and achievements. Additionally China actively tries to block India at each and every sphere (e.g. expansion of UN Security Council; India-US Nuclear Deal etc.). India will of course have to be more assertive. The only reason that explains China's behavior is insecurity. It just cannot contend with the fact that it has to accept India as an equal. By 2050, both India and China will be economic and military superpowers, but neither of them will be the sole superpower. Their size and scale will ensure that both India and China will have to accomodate each other (either as competitors or as collaborators). Space technology is one such area.

Mr Frederik Balfour

I think BW in a way have been quite unfair to india. I think you ppl has given india less attention and has given way too much spotlight to china regardless of the intention. Although i can understand the intense focus on china but neglecting india on some of its acheivement is doing injustice here.

Recently India just launched its first Moon mission Chandrayaan-1, it is something that is worth mentionin. After all BW got a number of indian fans here as well. I was hoping BW will actually put up a blog for it.

Hey ur fans base is quite diverse..try not to neglect anyone ok? Otherwise we be seeing alot unwanted comments coming into a blog topic that have nothing related to topic on hand. You know ...

You guys are still playing into the hands of the known devil.

India and China has a lot of smart and good people and we have great potential to succeed in anything we set our minds on whether it is technology or problems in our own backyard. There's no need to feel inferior or superior to each other.

So do not let the old trick of the "divide and conquer" strategy of the devil to drive a wedge between our peoples.

@Jeff and Frederik Balfour

Sure, here are some topic about India that Businessweek could do:

1-The Naxal crisis through India since this is a serious issue for any multinational.

2-The persecution of Christian in Orissa in which Christian preacher and converts are being killed by Hindus mob but somehow the Western press has kept quiet on it so BW should break rank and report it!

3- The Kashmir independent movement in which recently thousand and thousand of Kashmir people performed a pacific protest but they were brutally attacked by the Indian security apparatus.

4-How the economic slow down in India could affect India society and the possibility of mass unrest throughout India.

5-Verify the following Urban legend about India that more than 30% of the scientist and engineers at NASA are India, that more than 1/3 of all the Silicon Valley start up are made by India or that the USA tech proves owe greatly to the great India and finally verify if India middle class is 500 millions as the Indian like to brag about!

Please do it and you will get a lot of respond

Newbie,
You are comparing India with US? What a joke? India simply does not have industry to support big project like that. China will not fail like USSR either. China now is a US$3.4 trillion economy and only spends only a very small dent of it on military. China's industry is at least 6 times of India's and still running fast. Considering China's averafe industry growth rate of around 16%, The increase of China's industry in one year equals to the whole of India industry. Don't be surprise at this concept. Even when the world is facing crisis, China's industry is still growing at 10%+ rate. India's industry is crawing at less than 2% pace. Big difference.

Talking about Chandrayaan-1, I said here that India does not have good tracking capability. Just several days ago, the satellite was 35,000 kms away from the designed orbit! I am not wrong: 35,000KMs away. ISRO had to do some correction. ISRO simply cannot maneuver its satellites as precisely as China does. China's Chang'e used the same way to go to the moon as US, USSR and Japan did that needs precise operation, India is using a different way. It was very strange that India illustrated the Chandrayaan-1 orbits as China's method.

Hindu statistic

1. 30% of silicon valley companies are started up by Indians
2. 50% plus American doctors are Indians
3. 60% NASA scientists are India
4. We are THE RISHEST ethnic group in America, richer than white and Jew
5. Intel Pentium CPU is the basis of Intel. Intel Pentium CPU is created by Indian
6. Microsoft is the core of American prowess. 40% of Microsoft engineers are Indians. Without Indian engineers, Microsoft can not be successful. So are Oracle, Google, Cisco on and on …
7. Indians have HIGEST SAT score. Higher than any other ethnic groups
8. IIT are so tough that students who are not qualified for IIT are easily accepted by MIT or Princeton or Stanford etc.

Without Indians, American IT boom and technologies dominance is not possible. I think India will be a superpower at around 2020-2025. Stay tuned for the greatest show.

TO Jcage.

Please, stop with the incorrect data. Yes, I have to give credit to indian achievements but for clying out loud your bragging statements just seem childish and insecure. If you are a real classy intellectual, you would not say such things. To all Indians and Chinese (Im Chinese my self) dont let western media play us all. We both can work together and be powerful allies. Do not commit the same mistake of the past when western power took advantage of a divided asia to its own benefits through colonialism. India and China are developing nations who have both accomplished a great deal in technology. Lets just keep it to that. Now, lets work together.

Arun_S
Post subject: Re: Indian Space Program Discussion
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2008 05:41 pm
Webmaster BR
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narayana wrote:
Quote:
According to ISRO officials, RISAT mission would have a C-band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) payload, operating in a multi-polarisation and multi-resolution mode.

Great News in less then a years time after launching Israeli tecSAR we are ready with our own SAR :) :D

The above statement is ambiguous in its intent, depending on one's perspective.

RISAT mission was announced and part of the launch schedule for many many years and one can see technical publications in international conferences by ISRO on RISAT over last many years. Much before TecSAR was even thought to be launched by PSLV-core alone. There is absolutely no correaltion between India providing commercial launch service fro tecSAR and India's own RISAT with respect to any tecSAR technology leaching to heathen and backward Indians.

India is no slimy Chinese who actively steal (copy) at every possible opportunity. In South-East Asia (I..e in Indo-China), there is a popular belief that Chinese script, language and ethics is built on Chinese children learning to copy and emulate from earliest days of childhood.

'frugal engineering'='cutting corners'

Try that with manned space systems and you are pushing your luck too far.

Dear Chinese friends,

Do not discuss things with Indians in this forum. I tried to be neutral in your discussion, but always made surprised by Indian ways of thinking. They do not think like us in East Asia (you can get my country from my name, Vietnam). In general, what we think wright, they think it wrong and vice versa, so your discussion are always useless.

Nguyen's comment reminds me that Arianespace was hired to launch Vietnam's first telecommunications satellite on April 18 2008 from French Guiana. Perhaps the French colonial tie is still stronger than the Communist Fraternal bond between China and Vietnam which leaders used to call close as "Lips and Teeth."

@ Balfour,

Yes Vietnam first satellite was launched by Arian rocket, but the contractor was Lockheed Martin of the US.

Colonial tie do not exist in Vietnamese sentiment now. We do the business only. Most countries in the world have been conquered and colonised sometimes in their history. After the conquerors were fought away, we can be friends and do business together.

To Nguyen

You are correct on their way of thinking!
You are correct that the relationship between Vietnam and France is a relationship of equal and nothing more!

Nguyen, I agree with you. With all the talk in the West about India being the next China or rivaling China economically, I actually think that Vietnam stands a much better chance of advancing rapidly just like China for the last 30 years. Granted of course that Vietnam will never have the scale of China being so much smaller. But in terms of GDP per capita, I bet Vietnam will develop much faster than India in the next decade and catch up with China sooner. Many Chinese like myself think so.

Mr. Balfour
Not everyone has a good memory of colonial like the India has with the British and many people that have been colonized might take even offense to remind them of who was its "superior".

The USA was very suspicious of UK due to memory of colonial time and only after World War I that UK and USA become closer ally. Mind you that USA and UK share a lot of cultural and ethnic group but still the USA won't like to remind of its colonial time so please show some sensitivity to people from Asia!

Btw, the Chinese had already launched a SAR satellite. Gd luck with your RiSat, India!

China vs India scenario from Hindu Ultranationalist website. How to wage war against China.
Please read and enjoy and understand Hindu nationalist psyche.
Interesting!
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4287

Can we guys live in peace? China has 5000 years of history, India has 6000. China leads India in manned space program but lags behind India in satelite technology. Why can't two giants accomodate each other and live in peace? Every nation has its strength and weakness. It is understandable that these two nations in the past had splendid days and have also suffered a lot in the last 200 years. But please, to become grown-ups you have to behave like one. Please stop bad-mouthing each other and discuss with reason.

India has 6000 years of history? And India leads China in satellite technology?
First time I heard of it. Somebody is talking crap.

@Isaac,

I hope Indus valley civilization ring some bells, so does Taxial and Nalanda university. It might be hard for you to accept but India is much more ancient.