Yes, There Will Be A Student Loan Bailout

Posted by: Mark Gimein on November 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM

studentloansigns.jpg

When will the student loan bailout happen? And more important, will it be students who get bailed out, lenders or both?

If you think it’s too early to be asking this, you haven’t been looking at the numbers coming out about student loans. On the We Are The 99% photoblog, where protesters hold up signs explaining their grievances, just about every third sign cites crushing student debt load.

The Atlantic’s Daniel Indiviglio put together the killer chart on this two months ago, showing student loans rising 511% in just over a decade. The Atlantic figured the total of outstanding student loans at $550 billion. Reuter’s Felix Salmon points out that’s too low. A widely repeated USA Today story said student loans would reach $1 trillion this year. That’s closer (federally guaranteed loans alone exceed the Atlantic’s $550 billion), though, as Salmon shows, USA Today seems to be badly confused about the source of that $1 trillion.

studentloanmap2.pngMore interesting than the total number, though, is how it will get repaid. The New York Fed has put together a beautiful (read: ugly) map of student loan delinquencies, which nationally stand at 10.6% of loans. You can get a rough sense of it here, with the darker colors showing greater defaults. But to get the full force of it you should click through to the New York Fed site and tap the student loans tab. Roll over the darker counties and you’ll see delinquency rates of more than 20%. Across the Southeast you can see a belt of bad student loans forming, much like the foreclosure belt that stretched across the Southwest.

The problem here is not just that the student loan delinquency rates are rising. It’s that the numbers that are out there don’t seem to be giving the whole picture. The Department of Education dings schools whose students default within two years of graduating. Borderline schools—especially for-profit ones, who depend on student loans for the overwhelming bulk of their revenue—do their best to make sure their grads file all the right deferral forms and avoid delinquencies for those two years, even if they can’t actually make payments. After that, they’re on their own.

Nonetheless, 8.8% of federally guaranteed student loans that entered repayment in 2009 were in default by the end of 2010. To put that in perspective, keep in mind that in this case “default” means nine months of missed payments. This is a big jump from the 5% or so of loans from the last decade that are in default, and it feels like a leading indicator—like the first batch of subprime mortgages to go bad. With higher-interest private loans, the numbers are going to be worse. That 8.8% number isn’t cumulative. It reflects the number of students who defaulted pretty much right away, the equivalent of the subprime borrowers who never made a payment. In case the analogy with the mortgage bust is too subtle, you can go ahead and look at the student loan lender Sallie Mae’s primer on securitizing private education loans, online as a PDF.

A common take on student loans is that there’s little risk for lenders. Federally guaranteed loans are backed by the government, and even privately backed loans can’t be discharged in bankruptcy (in this education loans differ from other debts). The part about the government guarantee is true: yes, eventually the federal government will have to take over those loans. The other part is just nonsense. You can’t get money where there’s none to be got. That student debtors can’t discharge their loans in bankruptcy won’t help them find the money to pay.

Eventually both private lenders and the government will be on the hook. The government has already moved to ease some loan terms. It will need to find more, especially for those snookered into paying for degrees worthless in the job market. The private loans, meanwhile, will simply blow up. We may as well start figuring now how graduates, taxpayers, lenders, and schools will split the bill.

Photographer: Stan Honda/AFP/Getty Images
Map: New York Federal Reserve Bank, source, data source: credit reporting agency, TransUnion LLC’sTrend Data database.

Reader Comments

Nearly Blind

November 2, 2011 12:08 PM

Making student loans less painful is not the answer. The whole system is exactly the same as the housing bubble pre-crash. Lending money to anyone who asks for it (to either students or homebuyers) causes massive inflation (in college tuition or home prices), and also spurs deceptive and even fraudulant practices at the expense of borrowers. For the student loans this is the for profit colleges and vocational schools that exist primarily to get their hands on student loan money rather than to provide an education (that currently have loan default rates of 30-40%).
The federal government helping student loan borrowers will only keep feeding the bubble and the rise in college costs forcing students to borrow more.

John Galt

November 2, 2011 12:12 PM

To the lady holding the sign "Where are all the jobs?".

They are not in the street among refuse, garbage, and tattoo wearing losers.
Go home, take a shower, do your hair, wear some decent cloths, and apply to the companies that you are decrying. Then maybe, if you can prove that you are smart, you get a job. Right now you are proving that you are dumb.

engineer

November 2, 2011 12:23 PM

Cut both illegal immigration and legal STEM immigration and make American companies pay true market rates for American STEM graduates and we'll see some progress. Not everyone with one or more degrees majored in Women's Studies or some other so-called "useless" major.

As it stands there is less reason to go to college even for any kind of technical degree or science degree than ever for an American student when corporations can make a pro forma attempt to hire an American and then import a foreigner who will work for a fraction of the price. Just ask any technical worker about the IT "Indian Mafia" and you'll hear a mouthful.

Luckily other more far-sighted nations value STEM graduates and offer fast track visa and immigration status for American STEM graduates, so get ready for a massive American STEM brain drain if the current immigration regime is not reformed.

You want loyalty and respect? You give loyalty and respect. Currently the United States government, a wholly-owned subsidiary of whoever pays the most in campaign contributions, is showing young American scientists and engineers neither. Expect reciprocity.

Engineer

November 2, 2011 12:23 PM

Cut both illegal immigration and legal STEM immigration and make American companies pay true market rates for American STEM graduates and we'll see some progress. Not everyone with one or more degrees majored in Women's Studies or some other so-called "useless" major.

As it stands there is less reason to go to college even for any kind of technical degree or science degree than ever for an American student when corporations can make a pro forma attempt to hire an American and then import a foreigner who will work for a fraction of the price. Just ask any technical worker about the IT "Indian Mafia" and you'll hear a mouthful.

Luckily other more far-sighted nations value STEM graduates and offer fast track visa and immigration status for American STEM graduates, so get ready for a massive American STEM brain drain if the current immigration regime is not reformed.

You want loyalty and respect? You give loyalty and respect. Currently the United States government, a wholly-owned subsidiary of whoever pays the most in campaign contributions, is showing young American scientists and engineers neither. Expect reciprocity.

AP

November 2, 2011 12:27 PM

Why aren't these in-debt students out looking and pursuing jobs instead of spending their time on the street protesting? Also, why does everyone think they are entitled to a bailout? And we wonder why we are losing our global competitiveness.

capitalistic

November 2, 2011 12:39 PM

It beats bailing out banks, auto companies and lousy countries. Bail out the students.

shell

November 2, 2011 12:44 PM

Snookered into paying for degrees worthless in the job market??? Listen, it's not rocket science that a degree in English Lit, or Women's Studies, or PolySci, or Art History, etc., etc., might not lead you into a great job. Fine as minors I suppose, but really??? There was an absolutely brilliant article written by a tenured professor in the WSJ a few months ago where he addressed the issue whereby there are scores of professors on the college payrolls who do not teach at all, not even one course. Dedicated to research and producing papers published in "peer reviewed" journals...estimates papers cost $70K a piece. All of this feeds into the cost of tuition. Tenure provides shelter forever, what other occupation provides this??? Hey, we need great research institutions, yes, but does it make sense to lock away our best and brightest researchers so they have no contact with students? No transfer of knowledge? Every prof should teach. Universities also went on a spending binge trying to improve student "campus life" building all manner of high end apartment-like dorms and amenities. And now those bonds they floated to make the upgrades to campus are requiring the interest payments and repayments. Also these costs feed into cost of tuition.

If you borrowed the money - you owe the money. If you made poor choices in your curriculum, and studied "softer" material instead of hard sciences and engineering, etc. You made that choice.

Great sympathy for the job growth situation. Want that fixed, go vote for somebody with actual executive experience instead of someone with nothin' but hope.

hardworker

November 2, 2011 12:51 PM

I lived in a roach motel, held a total of 6 different jobs, ate ramen, and went without a car when I was in college.

I saved every penny, applied for over 30 scholarships in high school and another 20+ while in college.

The very school I went to I chose because of its cheap tuition and living costs, and I worked hard in high school to be accepted there.

It's now been a year since I graduated, and I got my first "real" job in July; I am also no longer in debt (paid my last loan this month).

Meanwhile, my peers lived in luxury housing, drove new cars, ate out constantly and partied all through college on loans.

So we are bailing people out? Great. I'd like a do-over. I'll take my filet mignon medium rare this time.

2bits

November 2, 2011 1:17 PM

If we had just used a fraction of all that bailout money we could have rebuilt all our infrastructure, payed off every student loan to free our kids from slavery to the banks, and made our nation stable for the future. Instead, we enriched CEO's, CFO',s banks, etc at our expense and our nations future existence. Stupid Bush. Stupid Obama. Two dumb Presidents in a row spells disaster.

Jacob

November 2, 2011 1:23 PM

For those people saying this is just like the housing crash, that's not true, for two reasons. First, banks aren't bundling up bad student loans and selling them as A+ investments. Secondly, someone defaulting on their student loans doesn't do anything to the "value" of another person's student loans. Since the loan is already for a fixed dollar amount, you don't have people who will be "under water" on their loan-this concept doesn't even apply.

Does It Matter

November 2, 2011 1:25 PM

The reason why "everyone expects a bailout" is because the people who run the United States federal government routinely bailout corporations and the wealthy from the consequences of their bad decisions using public funds via direct and indirect transfers of wealth, such as tax code changes, free loans given with guaranteed terms, and other such measures.

That is why corporations and the wealthy pay lobbyists and hire former bureaucrats, former politicians, current politicians' otherwise unemployable family members as "consultants" or some such claptrap, and otherwise engage in legal and illegal bribery schemes. They expect, and they receive, an amazing rate of return on those bribes or otherwise they would not pay them.

It's socialism for wealthy, but ruthless capitalism for everyone else without the support of the United States federal government. For instance, why are student loans virtually impossible to discharge in bankruptcy but other types of loans taken out by businesses much more easily dischargeable? Is this any way to inspire national unity, loyalty, and patriotism?

So given the current situation, why would any rational American act in a manner different from their corporate and governmental leaders? That would be insane and self-defeating. The United States is going to reap what it has sown and unfortunately harvest season has just begun.

Shouldn't speak for the 99%

November 2, 2011 1:25 PM

What degree are you getting? Please don't say, "Art history."

You ask where is your job? Please let me know if you need directions to the military recruiter's office. They love college educated people.

Unless you are going to offer to pay for my new car, please don't demand that I pay for the last 4 yrs you wasted.

Catherine

November 2, 2011 1:32 PM

Seeing that there are more than 4 people seeking work for every job that is available, and the unemployment rate close to twice the national average for the young, maybe y'all can stop ranting about how recent grads should just clean up and get a job. (Though in fact, the students pictured here were hardly the unwashed tatooed hippies decried by posters above.)

The students graduating now - most of whom started school before the financial crisis, you might notice - bought into what they were told to do and expect. Get good grades. Go to a decent university. Take out loans if you have to. Continue to get good grades. Get a degree.

Yeah, for those folks who've worked hard and toed that line, it's going to suck to finish up and realize you're deep in a hole. (Hint: it's not just the liberal arts majors. And many of the younger folks who are managing to get jobs are getting pretty awful ones.)

I'm pretty aware of how this is shaking out, as after years as a software engineer (back when stock options were worth something - I'm still the 99%, but I have a pretty nice investment portfolio, thanks, as much as it's shrunk under the last few crashes) I'm back in academia, teaching undergrads and working on a doctorate in neurobiology.

I have some really excellent students. Bright, well prepared, really hard working. And I can't think of a single one who isn't aiming to extend their education past their undergrad degree - in part because they all know how much the job market sucks right now. Those that can are basically making the calculation "yeah, I'll look again when I have an MD or PhD."

Department of Defense Employee

November 2, 2011 1:50 PM

I reallly don't care about all this because I get paid off taxpayers money..doing a very chill job right out of college? All I got to say it is a good feeling to be paid farely well and know I won't get fired regardless of economy. God Bless America and the taxpayers lol...stop protesting about defense budget cut...or else I might not get that extra money hahaha

Mike J

November 2, 2011 2:13 PM

John Galt, you're a moron.

"They are not in the street among refuse, garbage, and tattoo wearing losers.
Go home, take a shower, do your hair, wear some decent cloths, and apply to the companies that you are decrying. Then maybe, if you can prove that you are smart, you get a job. Right now you are proving that you are dumb."

There are 25 million Americans unemployed or underemployed. Although for the last few months there have been net job gains, the LARGEST companies that are the target of the occupy movement continue to fire people. There simply are not 25 million jobs out there for people to get, part of the reason is because big companies are continuing to fire people in order to boost their profit margins. BofA had $6.6 billion in profit last quarter, but apparently that isn't enough because they are planning to fire 30,000 people. The big companies are the problem, not people who are protesting them and who have legitimate grievances.

Resourceguy

November 2, 2011 2:19 PM

Yes, there will be a student loan bailout...but you will have to stand in line behind Greek unions, farm subsidies, postal workers, SEIU members in IL and CA, medicaid providers, Solyndra investors and lobbyists, Al Gore false-front green car companies, Corzine corruption as a primary broker dealer for the Fed, Italy!, IMF and other French elitists, and any number of Barry's other campaign-at-any-cost priorities.

Well said "Engineer"!

November 2, 2011 2:21 PM


US education - including in applied
areas (Science, Tech, Engineering, Management) - is unusually expensive.
Most of our competitors provide free or heavily subsidized inexpensive university education. The US should do the same.

To make matters worse, it's very easy
to offshore STEM jobs nowadays - they usually don't require a physical presence - analysis can be performed
anywhere in the world and sent over the internet. So why would most profit maximizing companies hire US STEM graduates at many times the cost of other non-US STEM grads. It'd be hard for most people starting off to prove that they are many times better than their competition in terms of output.

Some of you may say, too bad, wages will fall - the problem is that it is also several times CHEAPER to live in
many of our competitors' countries.
Not only is education several times cheaper, but so is rent, healthcare,
medications (and anything under patent, copyright or trademark), and even food and local basic services. US Grads -
including practical-minded STEM grads -
are getting hammered from all sides.
Experienced US STEM employees are also getting hammered from all sides.
This is not their fault - they are smart, educated and work hard (we have less vacation per year than India or China). Rather, it is a direct result of US economic policy which favors the rest of the world over our own middle class and that only focuses on the well being of the top 1 %.

As they teach in Economics 101, improved aggregate efficiency is not necessarily a Pareto improvement.
If all the gains go to the top and most
people are worse off, then it is economically rational for the majority of people to oppose it.

Jerry P. Walker

November 2, 2011 2:30 PM

The way I look at it now, is why bother saving for your kids education when they can go into debt, and if they don't get a high enough paying job, its gone in 20years. Now I can use this money for something else. Thank you Obama. I love socialism when it benefits me!

Heil Rand

November 2, 2011 2:33 PM

Funny, the submissive Rand worshiper telling everyone to "take a shower" when Steve Jobs, one of Americas most successful capitalists, rarely showered during the early developmental stages of his technology empire. These "John Galt" wannabes never create jobs, they're just obedient peons hoping the next Steve Jobs will hire them, except Apple doesn't need more worthless MBA paper pushers, they need talented designers and engineers.

Justin

November 2, 2011 2:33 PM

Schools need to take more of an interest and take more responsibility in preparing students for the job market. Unfortunately there is a view by schools that students are just cattle that need to be pushed through the system to make room for the next herd.

The more graduates that find work after college, the better it is for the school's reputation, the economy, and the less burden there is for taxpayers.

Pilau

November 2, 2011 2:34 PM

They said to work hard, get an education. I went to a community college then a year at a branch of the university before going to the main campus to save money as I was paying for my education by working. It took 5 yrs to graduate. I got no breaks. Now they want to give these student a break on their loans. I won't have taken out a $50K loan. I would have worked and go to school parttime. It may take me 7 yrs to graduate but I would graduate without a loan.

Finster

November 2, 2011 2:46 PM

I'm shocked by the snubbness displayed by the readership here. Listen up:

UNEMPLOYED INTELLIGENZIA IS DANGEROUS!

People are first and foremost creatures of habit and comfort. If they take to the streets in mass, there is a grievance. If you deny that there is one, you have failed the first test of politics. If you ridicule them and show inability to reform, you may be swept away by revolution. I'm not exaggerating here. Creating a generation of indebted college and university grads without perspective and with absolutely nothing left to loose is very poor policy choice.
The prevailing complacency in the previous comments just astounds me. And always remember, once demonstrations are unanswered and turn into riots, then something violent may happen and Americans may find out that they are armed.

Dave

November 2, 2011 2:51 PM

Shell,
Shut the hell up. I am an engineering student and I owe 115 THOUSAND dollars. I don't need some jackass preaching about how I made the wrong choice by going to college. What's your job? When did you graduate? Probably in a much easier time than now. So shut up.

Truth

November 2, 2011 2:51 PM

The education system may be the biggest scam in our country, other than gas powered vehicles of course. Give us FREE education - aren't we supposed to be a FIRST world country?

DeeBee9

November 2, 2011 2:57 PM

Just another slap in the face for those who pay their own way and take care of themselves. Over and over our government makes fools of prudent people by taking our money and giving it to the foolish. And we wonder why each year there are more and more foolish people and fewer and fewer prudent people...until, as in Greece, it all falls apart.

DeeBee9

November 2, 2011 2:58 PM

Just another slap in the face for those who pay their own way and take care of themselves. Over and over our government makes fools of prudent people by taking our money and giving it to the foolish. And we wonder why each year there are more and more foolish people and fewer and fewer prudent people...until, as in Greece, it all falls apart.

2bitsense

November 2, 2011 3:17 PM

The more the government meddles in things the faster it moves us towards national bankruptcy. What's needed is free college for all just like grades 1-12 and paid for by taxes on BIG businesses who are making over $1 trillion a year in profits at OUR expense.

Joe

November 2, 2011 3:20 PM

Why doesn't somebody simply create a national job bank to match people with jobs? The gov't is doing it now with federal positions (though the new website really sucks; the old one was much better). Why not expand it to all jobs everywhere? If people can find spouses this way, why can't they find work?

Here is an idea

November 2, 2011 3:20 PM

Want to change the corporate system? Get a job, work hard, and work to change the system from the INSIDE. Don't do it from out there while waiting for a handout. Better yet, start your own company and run it the way you want everyone else to do it. Change starts "in here", not "out there."

me

November 2, 2011 3:28 PM

There should instead be an investigation why tuition costs have far outstripped inflation and created this loan bubble. This should be a national investigation into why these kids are being loansharked.

Mike

November 2, 2011 3:57 PM

The US Army or Navy will pay off 65K in student loans for a 3 year enlistment.

Evan K

November 2, 2011 4:11 PM

Clearly the era of automatically going to college after high school is coming to an end. College enrollment has increased by 25% since 2000, and will increase an additional 14% by 2014 according to Sallie Mae. Who is going to fund this?

College is getting more and more expensive, and more and more people are defaulting on their student loans. College is not something the whole world is entitled to! Between easy financing and easy admissions processes, anybody can get into college. That is diluting the overall value and scarcity of a college degree in the marketplace, which is why these people are having a hard time finding a decent job.

Oh and by the way... If taxpayers start bailing out students in debt, we will further dilute the value of a college degree and encourage this behavior, and that will only mean more employment problems for the future.

Tighten up the admissions processes in state and private universities and don't hand out loans to every kid who bothers to fill out the paperwork. Didn't we learn anything from the housing market?!

Current College student not asking for a free lunch

November 2, 2011 4:40 PM

Here is the deal, basic economic principle I learned freshman year of college. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Everything costs money, whether it is a free education or being in debt up to our eye balls. We need to realize that if the government bails out us college students then we will end up paying for it tenfold in the future. Throw an interest rate and inflation on that and boom, we are trying to dig ourselves out of a hole by digging down. We need our government to get out of business. I am a business major and know that for every job I apply for there will be 5 people minimal to apply for it as well. However, I learned what I can bring to the table that someone else cant. Figure that out and then you can figure out where you can fit. We have room for growth in this country, find your niche and go with it! We cannot bail out with monopoly money anymore!

The person who said that faulting on a student loan doesn't effect everyone else, that is crap! Why do you think interest rates are what they are? Why do you think companies try so hard to get people to take loans from them? It is profitable! The more people fault the higher the interest rates and then the people making the payments pay more. Just like everything else in our economy, the people who bring the lunch pails to work each day working for "the man" will pay. That is how the system is set up. You cannot pay for the bailout by taxing the rich or the corporations higher because that will just keep the college grads from getting jobs! No one who is sitting at the top will eat the costs of higher taxes! When it comes to money and business we need to let free trade and capitalism do its job. I will pay off my loans whether its mowing lawns or working for a large corporation. Find your fit and be patient and don't ask for a handout. We will all find a way to be better than!

Resourceguy

November 2, 2011 4:42 PM

Yes, but this will have to be added to the laundry list of the last 60 days of the Obama administration as the long goodbye pardon list. Remember Bill and Hillary selling pardons???

dave w

November 2, 2011 4:49 PM

the idea of this makes me sick. more people looking for something for nothing. how about some consequences? they are protesting not in school or looking for jobs. mostly losers.

International Kid

November 2, 2011 4:53 PM

I'm an international student that studied liberal arts at a top 30. Interviewed with over 100 places last year (Mostly Fortune 1000) - graduated without a job, it's damn near impossible to get a job as an international student, STEM kids have a shot. The influx of degrees and diluted knowledge barely helps, I barely learned anything in college. It's almost like 4 year's of day care.

One possible scenario is the Military bails out all students and put's them to work on domestic infrastructure projects - Rail/Power/Water/Roads. No point in a free handout if you can get labor cheap - plus it helps circulate money domestically and teaches them DISCIPLINE - a particularly useful skill for life.

As I got back home I realized another thing, people complain about the type of job. Listen, lose the ego, there are thousands of kids like you. Get a job, even if it's free and pay your dues. It's OK to move back in with the parents. 99% of people can't run a business, if you think you can't, you've already failed, don't burden yourself with further debt.

This may seem like a radical option, how about send the kids to Africa for 5 years, develop an entire continent and see how bad they have it, true poverty humbles a person. Similar to the peace corps, but at least is constructive.

International Kid

November 2, 2011 4:55 PM

I'm an international student that studied liberal arts at a top 30. Interviewed with over 100 places last year (Mostly Fortune 1000) - graduated without a job, it's damn near impossible to get a job as an international student, STEM kids have a shot. The influx of degrees and diluted knowledge barely helps, I barely learned anything in college. It's almost like 4 year's of day care.

One possible scenario is the Military bails out all students and put's them to work on domestic infrastructure projects - Rail/Power/Water/Roads. No point in a free handout if you can get labor cheap - plus it helps circulate money domestically and teaches them DISCIPLINE - a particularly useful skill for life.

As I got back home I realized another thing, people complain about the type of job. Listen, lose the ego, there are thousands of kids like you. Get a job, even if it's free and pay your dues. It's OK to move back in with the parents. 99% of people can't run a business, if you think you can't, you've already failed, don't burden yourself with further debt.

This may seem like a radical option, how about send the kids to Africa for 5 years, develop an entire continent and see how bad they have it, true poverty humbles a person. Similar to the peace corps, but at least is constructive.

TechE

November 2, 2011 4:55 PM

I'm currently in college, and will be graduating in May with an Engineering Degree. I'm not at the top of my class, but I worked hard and have great prospects for jobs. The reason student debt is such an issue is because of the thousands of kids spending thousands of dollars to study art and other things. I understand the importance of the humanities, but don't invest $80,000 in something that will make you no money - it just doesn't make ANY sense!

BS

November 2, 2011 5:21 PM

I graduated in 2008 right when times got tough. I took a job nowhere close to my field and I now have all my student loans paid off. I also now have a job in my field. People need to realize they can't have everything, greedy uneducated fools are what they are.

Sorry Jacob

November 2, 2011 5:34 PM

Jacob - Student loans are bundled into ABS's much the same way mortgates were securitized in MBS's. If I remember correctly they even have a cute nickname - "SLABS." Much like Fannie and Freddie, there is a Sallie.

James

November 2, 2011 5:47 PM

25k in debt, HA! That's laughable, 25k. I mean seriously? I've got 225k worth of loans to Sallie Mae, and you don't see me crying with a sign.

We do need to spur growth, but this isn't gonna do it. Though I would be more than happy with a complete loan forgiveness. Just saying.

black in america

November 2, 2011 6:01 PM

What about the students whose parents were so poor that they could not afford to pay for college or with mediocre grades could not get a scholarship and had to take a student loan? They want to work but at no fault of thier own they can't land a job. Then they meet someone that do not have any education and has a better paying job because of who they know and not what they know. Should'nt they get a bail out?

Nick

November 2, 2011 6:10 PM

Why has college tuition shot up so much lately? What is going on? Some combination of easy loans, lower middle class incomes? Energy and water all cost more and colleges still depend on those. How can it be that there has been a 500% increase in the volume of student loans? Where does this come from?

Whats with the hate for the liberal arts too? English teachers get paid, so do preachers, anthropologists and writers. I think some people on this board are acting rather bigoted.

Chris Bonn

November 2, 2011 6:28 PM

There are two bubble generating inefficiencies in the higher education marketplace. First, money is lent to any American 18 year old who wants it based on "need," not ability to repay. Second, the amount of money lent is determined by the university, not the borrower. And the universities have ever-higher labor costs with no ability or incentive to reduce price (tenured professors who cannot be fired, released, outsourced, etc.)

This is an obvious death spiral.

The US governments' willingness to endlessly lend (SL guarantees) ever greater amounts has driven higher education costs unstustainably high. Yet higher education providers have zero ability to reduce costs. They have successfully passed along ever higher prices to students because the government keeps lending. But, as this article rightly points out, eventually the gross amount of borrowing will so far outstrip borrowers ability to be repaid, that either 1) loans will have to be forgiven, 2) loans must be replaced by direct government subsidies, or 3) government stops lending based on need and colleges all across the country deal with some bankruptcy-like restructuring where they correct their cost structure in line with students' realistic ability to pay.

American "Fascist-Soviets"

November 2, 2011 7:03 PM

People need to be made aware that American "Soviet Style" and "Fascist" corporations, colleges, hospitals, health insurance companies, politicians, etc., have set up America as "a pay as you go" colony where everything has a price. Moreover, the average American, the 99% is forced to subsidize the top 1% through taxes, debts, and fees. The legal system is designed to serve the top 1% at the expense of the 99%. It's so simple to understand, yet most Americans are stuck on euphemisms and slogans, kind of like Orwell's "1984." Most Americans lack the intellect to see through the facade of the parasitic nature of Fascist-Soviet style economy of the USA.

Concerned Citizens

November 2, 2011 8:47 PM

What about Private Loans that are not backed by any tax payer money? Why should they be regarded differently then any other loan (credit card, business loan, Private Loan, gambling debt etc..)

Why can someone get themselves in a bind and bankrupt that debt, but a student with a private loan can't do the same? There is no tax payer involved.

If one argues against allowing private student loans to be allowed into bankruptcy you should then argue that no debt should be allowed to be discharged.

Should we just do away with bankruptcy in general... do you think that would stop wells fargo from raising your interest rate on that credit card?

Again Private Student loans zero, zilch , nada, zipo tax payer money involved.

Patrick Russell

November 2, 2011 9:07 PM

When I see the "hater" comments towards the protesters I know EXACTLY who they are - elder Americans that think society is just as it was 40 years ago...they don't understand how things have changed, how jobs and industries have gone away or overseas - the last 30 years of progressive (I say that in an ironic sense) corporate pressure to sell off industry in the US and the jobs that went with it to less expensive countries in the name of "global competition" is unknown to these individuals. Please people educate yourselves. You were once young and faced difficulties and hardships - have some understanding that our students are NOT IMAGING WHAT IS GOING ON WITH OUR SOCIETY.

Mike

November 2, 2011 9:46 PM

I have an undergrad and masters degree and never took out a loan or got money from my parents. i own 4 homes and never took out an ARM, even when lenders practically rolled their eyes at me five years ago.

People, WORK. get a job. or two. or three. for $9/hour if necessary. you borrowed the frickin money now pay it back and stop bitching. Cripes!

graduate

November 2, 2011 10:32 PM

I went to a good, rather famous state school. Didn't get a junk arts degree. Graduated with honors and a 3.9 GPA. It took me 2 years after graduation to find a job despite sending out multiple applications all over town all day, ever day, and even then I don't earn over $40k/year despite being $30k in debt.

To everyone just saying "just go get a job": you really don't get it until you've had to live with the frustration of working hard in school your whole life to become a productive adult only to have every door closed in front of you because companies would rather outsource jobs than hire entry level grads. I wish I could join these protests.

"Outsourcing" America

November 3, 2011 12:51 AM

The people who complain about the 99% and the OWS protesters fail to realize that the American economy has been hollowed-out and out-sourced to other countries that will pay their citizens slave labor wages while most Americans were pursuing a college degree with the intent to find an job in the USA after graduation that pays a decent wage and benefits (this has been going since the end of WWII). In the aftermath of the out-sourcing and hollowing-out, the American economy has turned to into an "inflationary parasite" where the most important needs of life like healthcare, education, shelter, and transportation are auctioned off to the highest bidder with the deepest pockets (The 1%) or those willing to go into debt to obtain these items to survive (The 99%). As a result, the USA has increasing income inequality and this is having a polarizing effect on American society creating two groups; the 1% and the 99%. OWS is just the beginning...

Charmony

November 3, 2011 1:16 AM

How an entire department of an organization can be ONE nationality I do not know. To me it's looking at the fruits of discrimination and civil rights violations. A person can tell right off that "Gee, I'll never be able to work in X profession for this company because I don't belong to the right nationality." It's as if the laws of the land are moot now. How is EEOC not concerned when the racial make up of any discipline is diverse, but only one race is employed in a department? Could it be that 99% of us don't even know that we are not considered Americans, so the goverment dosent work for us? What is it? Because it damn sure dosent make sense.

Americans are under a multi-pronged attack, and we need to gather our inteligencia and get a multifaceted strategy. It is so annoying to watch reporters shove microphones in the faces of protesters asking for an elevator pitch of the grievances.


ITS ALL CRAP

November 3, 2011 11:26 AM

As an employee who processes student loans I can tell you that most of the students requesting the maximum loan amounts are living above their means. When counseling these students, I always press the reality that they will be paying on these loans for 20 years and to be careful what you spend the money on. Do you really want to pay on those cute pedicures for 20 years? If you make the debt, you pay it. Simple concept. It's the way baby boomers and gen x people were raised. IT'S HIGH TIME OUR GOVERNMENT MAKES PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE! The younger generation is too used to getting something for nothing and it's got to stop.

Poirot

November 3, 2011 1:54 PM

My nephew worked very hard in high school and got a full ride to a prestigious liberal arts university in Virginia. While there he avoided the rich kid party scene and studied hard. Last spring he graduated with honors in Accounting and is now getting his Accounting Masters at an inexpensive state university, which he chose so he wouldn't go into debt.

He already has two very good job offers, one from a public accounting firm and another from a private corporation.

Sorry folks, it just isn't that hard if you use your head, work hard, and live frugally when you need to.

Poirot

November 3, 2011 1:57 PM

My nephew worked very hard in high school and got a full ride to a prestigious liberal arts university in Virginia. While there he avoided the rich kid party scene and studied hard. Last spring he graduated with honors in Accounting and is now getting his Accounting Masters at an inexpensive state university, which he chose so he wouldn't go into debt.

He already has two very good job offers, one from a public accounting firm and another from a private corporation.

Sorry folks, it just isn't that hard if you use your head, work hard, and live frugally when you need to.

John

November 3, 2011 8:05 PM

If student loan debtors are given a free ride via taxpayer bailout then that means two other groups of people will be literally screwed by this government action:

1. Those of us who worked to pay off our student loan debt. We will have had to pay for our loans AND for their loans as well.

2. Our children and grandchildren will be saddled with the debt of those among us who refuse to make the same sacrifices as we did. It's immoral to expect that the children, adults of tomorrow, pay for the debts you have accumulated.

It's sad that many are in so much debt. But that does not mean it's right to shift that debt burden on to others.

Solution: Lower tuition costs by removing taxpayer/government money from the equation (less $ competing for educational resources = lower costs). Stop federal guarantees on student loans. Companies that lend money to people, regardless of what they are buying with it, should be responsible enough to take on the associated risk. Change the bankruptcy laws to include the ability to discharge student loan debt.

Rich

November 3, 2011 8:56 PM

I recommend College Conspiracy, they have an interesting take on the subject on Student Loans.

http://inflation.us/videos.html

Scumbag Hippie

November 4, 2011 3:36 AM

To you folks who think those protesting right now are just lazy hippies, you couldn't be further from the truth.

This country's economy has been extracted. Big business and the federal government have created a slave state that leaves the common man at their will.

The housing bubble caused a catastrophic event within our economy. It destroyed the market value of real estate. The baby boomers were told to go out, get a job, work hard, buy a house, raise your family and then someday, sell the house, and kick back on your 401k and profits from the house, and your company pension. Except that companies have done everything in their power to avoid and eradicate pensions. The housing bubble destroyed the value of houses people hoped to be able to sell at profit, and caused market instability that literally raped most folk's portfolios.

Now those folks aren't retiring. They are sitting in those jobs they've held forever, trying to squirrel away more money to make up for the losses they took. The companies they work for are outsourcing their labor and materials needs to save money. Often slashing jobs, putting hard working people on the street.

College students have been encouraged to attend the best schools at whatever cost. We've also been encouraged to pursue careers in a number of fields that are suddenly stagnant and over filled. There are millions of college graduates every semester that are flooding the marketplace, all looking for that first big break.


So we have companies that are trying to save money at whatever cost, often by slashing jobs.

We have our baby boomer generation that are retaining jobs at an unprecedented rate due to retirement instability.

We have an overwhelming influx of college grads applying for jobs with no actual experience, just a shiny piece of paper and a crushing amount of debt.

Lastly, we have our corporate banks, that we gave 9 trillion dollars to bail out. With the understanding that it would be used to balance their books, coat the housing burst, and to continue loaning practices to other banks and businesses.

Except they aren't. Big banking is sitting on record levels of liquidity. Rather than loaning money to other banks and businesses they are hoarding the liquid assets in their coffers, to the tune of at least double the percentages of before. Then they are loaning that money back to the federal government in the form of no-risk, fixed yield bonds.

We gave the big banks 9 trillion, so they could fix their losses, pay out record bonuses to executives, sit on record levels of liquidity, and loan the money back to us at no risk for a profit.

The last key to this slavery machine, is that big business owns our politicians. Not a single candidate on a ballot of any significance is put there without contributions from corporate interests. Any politician who would even try to rectify these wrongs will be fired via public opinion and a cut to campaign funding.

Keep your head in the sand friends, Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

Victoria

November 4, 2011 9:04 AM

Why should we bail these protestors out? A recent investigation showed that the majority of them lived in houses that were worth more than the average value of homes in the US. Moreover, they are communicating on Twitter, Facebook, etc., all of which require some type of expensive electronic equipment. These are not poor students, these are lazy, spoiled, whiners. To bail them out is a slap in the face to every student who has met his obligations under the student loan program by paying back the loan, and an incentive for every future loan student to refuse to pay back their loans as well, and for colleges to simply charge more in tuition to make up for this lost revenue. The middle class taxpayer will ultimately pay for this, and that is untenable and irresponsible. Perhaps these whiners should clean up, put on some nice clothing, and look for a job, or alternatively, get a degree in something more useful than women's studies and the like. Bad idea all around to bail them out.

Claude Hopper

November 4, 2011 9:21 AM

College grads, rest assured that Obama, if he wins in 2012, will make you indentured servants to his fundamental transformation program. He will forgive your debt in exchange for leading the next social engineering and coffee mechanics graduates in their useless public uplifting tasks.

R.D Walker

November 4, 2011 9:22 AM

Great. All that time I spent as an infantryman getting shot at and sleeping with my head in the dirt in order to get the GI Bill was for nothing. Every magenta haired nose ringer with a Radiohead tattoo is going to get the same deal. Man, I am such a sucker.

Swami

November 4, 2011 9:33 AM

Their Student Loans WERE a bailout.

Now that the banks have repaid TARP, will the students repay the money they were loaned?

Rob

November 4, 2011 9:34 AM

I've gone my whole life without accruing significant debt, aside from a mortgage of about $75,000 that I paid off (over a decade early) eight years ago. Throughout my life thrift has equaled going to the so-so college that offered me a scholarship, never having particularly nice things or going on expensive vacations. I've done without, and today I'm in financially great shape.

The idea that I, and other responsible people like me, should be made to pay off the loans of imprudent people via taxation is repugnant to me in every way. I will do everything within my power to avoid such an outcome - it's wrong. I'm livid that this is even being discussed in a serious way.

Teacher in Tejas

November 4, 2011 9:43 AM

I notice the girl holding up the "Where are the jobs; I graduate in May" sign fails to mention what her degree is in. Bet any amount of money it ends in the word "studies" or has the word "minority," "transgendered," "womYn" etc. in it!

Swami

November 4, 2011 9:51 AM

Scumbag Hippie, some points you may have overlooked:

1) The private sector has been without pensions for a long time. That kind of luxury is only available to public workers these days- even though no one has the money to pay for it. That's why we private workers need our 401k's.

2) Jobs are not a zero sum equation. The fact that people are holding onto jobs is a GOOD thing. The more goods and services pumped into the economy, the stronger our money becomes, and the total availability of jobs grows. The bad thing is money being handed out WITHOUT concurrent production of goods and services. That is what devalues money and destroys jobs.
3) I agree with the issue of college grads having paper and debt and neither experience nor skills. The fraud here was not theirs, mine, Wall Street's or the government's, though. The fraud was committed by Academia, which told these unfortunates that classes in Ethnic Victim Studies, Post-Modern Dance, and History of Bad Things Our Country Does are actually valuable things they should pay for. They should have been taking things like computer science, math, and engineering. They were sold cheap, worthless crap by these charlatans, and it is time to call them out.
4) We did give the banks a lot of money. I was against that. I think there is no "too big to fail" in capitalism. The big companies, left to fail, will fail to the point where small ones buy up their assets if there any value left at all, and if there isn't any value- why not let them go? But that being said, note that the money was repaid. The students were ALREADY GIVEN THEIR BAILOUT. That was their loans. Will they repay that? Or are you suggesting that we give loans to banks but gifts to students?
5) Big business does not own all our politicians. That is a terrible thing to say about our government! (Some are owned by unions, organized crime, or other similar institutions.)

JohnTaylor

November 4, 2011 10:00 AM

The day our government "bails out" these people is the day the real Tea Party begins. You thought people were pissed after Obamacare, the bank bailouts, etc? What until the government starts stealing money from people who earned it to give it to people who were stupid enough to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for a worthless degree and are too lazy to even bother trying to pay it back. Tar, feathers and pitchforks.

dlr

November 4, 2011 10:45 AM

"snookered"? They get a degree which provides no job skills and I have to pick up the tab for their 4 year vacation? I don't think so.

People don't get "snookered" into getting a useless degree. They CHOOSE, deliberately, to get a useless degree.

Employers are standing in line to hire people with computing skills, and engineering, science, and math degrees. Even a BA in business will get you a good job. If you get a degree in fine arts, theater, history, literature, sociology, etc, don't expect me to feel sorry for you because now, surprise, surprise, you can't get a job. You had the 4 years of fun. You can pay the bill.

MEC2

November 4, 2011 10:52 AM

So many just clearly missing the point...

Government involvement in the market has once again led to distorting effects. In this case, constant subsidy of tuition costs with no limits has led to a grotesque inflation of college costs. Universities have been milking this system for decades, and the resultant skyrocket in costs for students is the natural and unavoidable result.

Now that Obama put this program entirely under federal auspices, it will be another government slush fund used to buy votes - need the youth vote? Just take their future tax dollars and give them to them today as free college education. We've once again privatized the benefit and publicized the cost.

And college still costs too damn much. It's confiscatory.

JER

November 4, 2011 11:20 AM

There are so many good comments on this page but also so much anger at each other. We need to stop pointing the finger at who is to blame and move ahead. Many factors have contributed to the current situation but the reality is that there are more people with 2 and 4 year degrees from colleges than there are jobs. That situation will improve when the economy rebounds but it will not entirely disappear. There are not many options for the unemployed at this moment but there are some. If you go to the Dept. of Labor and Industry website you will see that there are approximately 3.1 million job openings in the USA and there has been for the past three years but the jobs require training that a traditional 4 year degree does not provide so re-training to get the qualification would be a start for some (salary range $35K - $85K). There are also innovation centers throughout the USA for start-up enterprises. This is not for everyone but it is another option to look at. Some recent graduates are moving in with family and taking two or three part-time jobs in various areas (retail, business services, home services, road construction, etc.) - not ideal for someone with a degree in economics or engineering or even art history :) - but it is paying the bills for now. Others are getting their commercial driver's licenses and taking jobs as drivers (of which there are many) - again not ideal but the money is good if you like driving. We do need to reform the situation and make sure that existing high school students (and their parents) put more effort and focus into their educational needs after high school before they start accepting offers and signing promissory notes for loans. Not everyone wants (or should) go to go to a traditional four year college and based on the number that require remedial education during their first two years of college or drop out before completing their degree...some definately should not be going that route. Those students end up without a qualification but with loans to repay - not to mention what their parents have to repay. Outside of the top 30 highest ranked colleges, most of the remaining 4,000 plus institutions in the USA accept approximately 70% of applicants and some accept 100%. Acquiring financing is too easy and it is allowing families that cannot afford the high cost of certain institutions to go into significant levels of debt with no real guarantee that the degree will ever be worth the cost. For both future high school graduates and current unemployed or underemployed college graduates - you need a plan. With a well thought out plan, hard work and determination, you will achieve success in whatever way you define it. Keep the faith, don't attack each other. We are Americans and when we come together we achieve great things.

Mike T

November 4, 2011 11:27 AM

So yet once again our government and the class of takers in our society have made me a schmuck. I paid off my house--so now I get to help with my tax money everyone who bought houses they couldn't afford. Now that I paid for my kids college education, all the kids and lenders who borrowed/lent money to get loans for degrees such as Women's Studies are forgiven, again with my tax money.

Ant-Grasshopper, anyone? At some point, the Ants will let the Grasshoppers suffer the consequences of their own bad decisions instead of rewarding them. It is either that or we Ants will just decide that only suckers play by the rules and join in on the great looting along with all the Grasshoppers. Then who pays for all these goodies?

Mike Gautreaux

November 4, 2011 11:34 AM

Hey - American "Fascist-Soviets"

If it is so bad in the United States, move to Greece, but it is not my fault you chose to go to a school you obviously could neither afford nor get a scholarship for, and chose a degree no one wanted. The Army is a great place to pick up the pieces, but, oh yeah, you want it all on your terms.

They system is a self-licking ice cream cone that needs to be reformed, and I personally hold the "lack-of-guidance" counsellors most universities employ partially accountable along with a cattle-graduating-in-anything mentality of most univerity administration. Who the hell pays full price to go to an Ivy League school to be teacher to make $24K-$50K depending on where you live? I can't make the math work.

I have a degree in English, and live at risk of losing my mob with nothing to fall back. Low Tier school and no debt because I served in the National Guard, and later used my "degreee in anything" as an officer int he US ARMY. Every decision I made has bettered my life inspite of my limited degree. Make better decisions and accept the consequences of your own decisions. Live in the world as it is and quit trying to live in the world as you think it should be. How's that working out?

Lastly, go check out the 3 things listed below:

How many nurses are needed in this country?

How badly the Dakotas need workers?

What is the national unemployment rate for accountants, engineers, and anythingin the healthcare field?

But, oh yeah, you knuckleheads want it your way on your terms where you want to live for the amount you want to be paid. Your thoughts?

Constitution First

November 4, 2011 11:44 AM

If we keep bailing out bad decisions we may as well start sucking on a tailpipe, because we'll live about as long.

If the Marching moochers want to protest the main source of high education costs, why aren't they picketing the schools?

Because they are frauds, liars and tools of 0bummer and the unions, that's why.

Wake up America, you're circling the drain.

Vic Napier

November 4, 2011 12:00 PM

The education industry has made a fortune telling us that more education results in job security and an increase in income. It should now be obvious this is not true, and has not been true fro some time. Check out some of the articles here: http://www.joblesseconomy.net/Files/RebuldEconomy_PutEducatedToWork.htm

Vic Napier

Vinny B.

November 4, 2011 12:03 PM

As usual, everyone wants to blame the black president for all the problems caused by Bush and the criminal Republicans, who care nothing about the plight of women, children, minorities, blue collar union workers, and gays. People need to stop looking at the nearest black guy and understand that a vote for any Republican in 2012 is a vote for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and Palin, who are all criminals that belong in jail. Not surprising that the three frontrunners for the Republican nomination are a Texas governor that is so dumb he makes Bush look like an Ivy Leaguer, a guy from a cult religion, and a sexual predator.

Vadim

November 4, 2011 12:10 PM

$25k in debt? And she's complaining!? I made a number of mistakes in pursuing my comp sci degree and graduated with $150k in debt from one of the most expensive colleges in the US (unknown to me at the time I entered). I wised up, got married and worked hard to specialize to get a decent job. A year and two finished car payments later, I'm down to $125k and will be out of debt within 3-4 years. I certainly don't think I deserve a bailout. I made my own poor decisions but it shouldn't be the burden of anyone else to pay for them. Sure, it means I won't be able to own a home or go out every night for quite some time but I now understand something many of these protesters don't: personal responsibility and accountability.

Dano48

November 4, 2011 12:21 PM

Catherine,

You say today's college kids are only doing what they were "told to do". Who told them to rack up huge amounts of debt, their parents? Then they should blame their parents, not Wall Street. Was a guidance counselor or teacher like yourself that told them to go into debt? Then they should blame their teachers not Wall Street. Or maybe, heaven forbid, they should take responsibility for their own actions. Lots of kids work while going to school, and manage not to incur $50,000+ in debt.

Apparently your students aren't as bright as you say they are if they've decided to stay in school for 2 more years, racking up even more debt.

Garrettc

November 4, 2011 12:25 PM

Yes student loans wil be bailed out because that is the pre-iminant value of our culture. No one should suffer unduly, etiher for mistakes they personally made or for mistakes their government made. So what will be the fall out and is it managable?

Do not look for the federal government to assume another $1 trillion in debt. The only reasonable fall-guy is the banks and SallieMae. The final result will be no more unsecured loans. Think about that.

The next decade parents, already holding mogtages on homes with no equity, and credit cars maxed will be unable to take out personal loans to the tune of $40k+ per year. Total collapse of the higher educational system follows.

Becareful of what you demand, OWS. The next generation will not thank you.

buzz

November 4, 2011 12:27 PM

"I am an engineering student and I owe 115 THOUSAND dollars" How? What school are you going to, what engineering are you studying and how many colleges did you look at before choosing this one? Also how many hours a week are you working while in school? How are your grades? Lots of scholarships out there for technical degrees at a number of different schools around the country for people with good grades. How many semesters is that $115K spread out over?

lonestar78613

November 4, 2011 12:54 PM

Complaining about there being 'no jobs'? Get out there and make one for yourself.

I'm self-employed - 20+ years. No company benefits, just what I can put aside and pay for myself (including med insurance; catastrophic, I pay the first $10k OOP every year). 2 Bachelors and law school (IANAL) - finished debt free in the late-1980's (had to work almost full-time while attending college to do it). Has been hard - absolutely no regrets, though.

True story - a good friend of mine (25+ years) essentially had to start over last year. Had NOTHING but a high school education, a car, a car payment, some clothes and personal possessions, and a minor child. Moved to my town (where he knew NO ONE) and rented a couple of rooms (he and his son) from me at the beginning of this year. Got out and started hustling with ads on Craigslist to mow lawns. Within 2 months, he had upgraded to small engine repair and had delegated his lawn-mowing to hires (keeping a %). Within 6 months (through contacts he had made), he had started an estate liquidation business that's currently generating $4k/mth. The sky's the limit for him.

Yes, he had some breaks. Yes, he's learned things in his life that helped him make this happen now. The point, though, is that you have to get out there and HUSTLE. You have to WORK, not just bitch. But I guess that's the problem, isn't it? These 20-something Occupiers don't want to work, they expect the free ride they've had all of their life to continue. Well, it won't. That gravy train's come to an end. And that's a lesson no academic degree will ever teach them.

Draken Korin

November 4, 2011 1:23 PM

Get ready for the deluge: DEBTORS' REVOLT -- DEFAULT EN MASSE.

I am an economics and finance professional (retired), a former insider, and I tell you: the predatory lending system is a cancer on our economic future. Starve the cancer of its nutrients then.

Spread the meme. Collapse the predatory banking system. Just say no - don't play their rigged game any longer.

And yes, it will cause widespread systemic collapse, but this will be temporary, we will adjust and rebuild, and will have cleansed out the massive DISTORTIONS that currently plague the system.

DEBTORS' REVOLT -- DEFAULT EN MASSE. The momentum grows. The critical mass is near.

...And to the folks who will immediatel­y answer with "pay what you owe. end of story!", let me just preempt by answering that the analysis is more structural and macro in scope than that. It's not just a matter of whose "fault" it is - regardless of that, it's become a macroscale systemic distortion that, if allowed to continue, will prevent any sort of mobility in the long term. We, as a nation, need to simply suck it up, recognize that these contracts were made in what is essentiall­y a different economic era, and recognize that they are incompatib­le with the new situation.

It has to simply be zeroed, reset. Rebuild from there. DEFAULT EN MASSE.

"Nice Try" Mike Gatreaux

November 4, 2011 1:43 PM

First off, Mike, you need to learn how to spell, it seems your degree in English from the low-tier school did not pay off with strong English skills. Now you see how a an Ivy League or Big Ten degree can pay off? As far as moving to Greece, well, they are part of the Soviet style economy that became a socialist-democracy(EU) funded with debt by the American Fascist corporation known as "Goldman Sachs" which is responsible for the debt misery that Greece is currently experiencing. So again we see valid proof of how the "Fascist-Soviet" style economy has spread its tentacles around the world and not just in the USA. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you need to add the word FRAUD to American style "Fascist-Soviet" international economics.

ertdfg

November 4, 2011 2:37 PM

Wow, I'm as stupid as can be.

I bought a house I could afford, made the payments, and didn't get help... stupid. I should have bought more house than I could afford to get government assistance for being an idiot; but I'm too stupid to choose the irresponsible path there, so I get to pay for everyone else's irresponsible behavior.

Then I send my kids to a college I can afford, to avoid them starting life with huge debt... and again I'm stupid. Clearly if I'd been enough of an idiot to send them to a college neither they nor I could afford I could have gotten another huge payoff of tax money from others.

Instead, stupid person that I am, I'm, simply paying both for all my costs, and for everyone else who is too idiotic to make reasonable choices.

Clearly I need to make less reasonable choices in order to do better. Can someone hit me in the head with a brick and teach me to be an irresponsible idiot with my money so the government will reward me for my choices?

Maybe I can get some advice. Would a drug habit, Vegas spree, or strip club be the better "investment" choice to start my irresponsible lifestyle before I have to rely on someone else to pick up the tab for me when I run out of money?

Loan Discrepancy

November 4, 2011 2:55 PM

I know many college graduates who do not feel it is important to pay back his or her student loans. These individuals have high paying jobs and have not paid any money towards their students loans and are complaining about the interest build up on their loans. I understand that change is important in the student loan program, but do not blame all the various schools for the fall-out. Blame the individuals who are not re-paying that have jobs and will not make any attempt to pay back his or her loans. Is this fair to the system? NO!! I know this is only a small part of why the system is in default, but where is the oversight?

"Bailout Hypocrisy"

November 4, 2011 4:26 PM

Why is it okay for the U.S. government to bailout the banks that were responsible for pumping up the biggest housing bubble in human history that ended up crashing the U.S. economy with massive foreclosures?
However, at the same time, why is it that Americans cannot grasp the concept that it might be okay to bailout student loans?
Yes, some students did get a free ride on student loans but you cannot get rich off student loans like the CEO's of the banks that get multimillion dollar severance packages, and private jets for creating fraudulent CDO's and fake debt instruments. Americans love to pick on the poor and average income citizens (the 99%) by blaming them for their misfortunes but give the wealthy corporate fat cats (the 1%) a free pass. Do Americans realize that these "fat cats" (the 1%) get bailouts all the time in the form of corporate bankruptcies and then turn around and start fresh with a new batch of business loans like nothing ever happened. "Corporate Socialism " for the wealthiest 1% and "Social Darwinism" for the other 99%.

swampwiz

November 4, 2011 10:44 PM

I say just implement confiscatory taxes on the wealthy to be redistributed to the masses, so that those with student loans can pay those loans off, and those who were prudent enough not to have such loans, or worked hard enough to pay those loans back, can just bask in the glow of increased disposable income.

Joe Orawczyk

November 5, 2011 9:21 AM

Today we are faced with the result of what was first instigated by the “Contract-With-America” GOP Congress under Gingrich of the mid 1990’s. It is important to understand how this all started. The Republicans running the Education and Labor committee in the House endeavored to pass legislation that would deregulate the student loan industry. They couldn’t get it to pass under its own merits so 1995 they attached it as a rider to a huge military appropriations bill (H.R. 3610), which Clinton signed to fund the troops.

This privatized Sallie May and enabled it to do two things; 1) it turned into an institution that embraced predatory loan practices that preyed upon the most susceptible among the People – our young; and 2) it enriched the Republicans who privatized it so a few executives running it could get tens of millions in compensation for their handiwork.

My Representative Buck McKeon (R) has received around a quarter-million dollars in donations from Sallie May since he helped privatize it. Then he along with the rest of the GOP modified the bankruptcy laws so students were subsequently unable to seek relief from their loans in court, even though Buck McKeon sought and received such relief when he bankrupted the Howard and Phil’s Western Wear stores his parents had created. In order to fix what is broken within our economy, it is important we first understand how it was set up to broken and by whom.

Lean more at:
http://www.thebuckstopsnow.org/2010/05/buck-profits-at-the-expense-of-students/

Joe Orawczyk

November 5, 2011 9:31 AM

@SHELL, RE: "...a degree in English Lit, or Women's Studies, or PolySci, or Art History, etc., etc., might not lead you into a great job. Fine as minors I suppose, but really???" My Congressman Buck McKeon has a BS degree in animal husbandry from BYU, which apparently makes him qualified to chair the HASC.

RE: "Tenure provides shelter forever, what other occupation provides this???" Politics. Entrenched politicians entrench themselves to be sheltered from the real world.

Self Made

November 6, 2011 6:14 PM

This is my true story:

I am 27 and in college full time, now entering my junior year. I am also a single father with sole custody.

I have NOT accepted a single student loan. I have NOT taken a dime from my family to pay for it. I have NOT asked my government for a dime. I do NOT have a scholorship.

I worked for almost ten years before going to college. I have always SAVED 10-25% of my income. I have NEVER had a loan of any sort. I have money, and will not run out of it before my degree is finished. I take care of my child, I study hard and live as cheap as possible. I have ALWAYS invested my money and it has PAID off big time.

People are victims of their own choosing. Any of those complaining about their student loans could have taken a job out of highschool and worked and saved. I am hated at college because I point out how irresponsible everyone is around me. They line up for $4 a cup of coffee at the coffee shop every day. I say to them "stop buying Starbucks and invest or save that money" and they glare at me.

No, do NOT bail out students with loans. Write regulations that force those who owe something to pay it off. People have the choice to live within their means. I had a child out of wedlock, I became a single father, I accepted responsibility and I work hard to provide and I do provide every single day. I do NOT watch the Kardashians or CNN or any crap that is a waste of time.

This is America, land of the FREE... FREE to fail or FREE to succeed.

End the FED. Force the corporate banks to fail and go under and away.

Vote for Ron Paul.

Who Cares

November 6, 2011 6:15 PM

Why is it that foreign students do not have to pay for college? Does anyone besides me agree that we should educate them for free, employee them and allow the economy to be depleted when they turn around and send their paychecks to their country? Every dime of it should stay right here, be taxed, and they should have to be forced to contribute to the economy! Maybe eveb look at it as a thank you for the free education!

Masters in Education

November 7, 2011 9:49 PM

I graduated in Jan 2010 with a Masters degree in Early Childhood Education. I had a 3.7 GPA and I still have no job. Not only do I not have a job but teachers everywhere are being laid off because of the lack of funding for education. All I would like to see happen is all this bailout money should be going into our schools and our childrens education. Then I would have a job and be able to pay for my student loans as well. Send my bailout to a school in need which if you look around is just about any of them!!!!!

Agree with "Masters in Ed"

November 8, 2011 1:46 AM

"Masters in Education" hit the nail on the head. For example, in Arizona, the governor and state legislature has reduced kindergarten to 2.5 hours a day, while at the same time cutting $500 million in education funding. However, the AZ governor and her political "partners in crime" in the legislature gave $500 million in tax breaks to corporations. The money is there, but after the politicians and the 1% embezzled the funds, they are trying to tell the 99% that they are broke and they need to balance the budget (what a con job!). Nevertheless, it is shame that teachers and students get hammered because of the greed and fraud perpetrated by the 1%, their lobbyists, and the puppet politicians that serve in all levels of government.

oscar james

November 8, 2011 8:55 AM

1971 my future wife and i sat on a river bank and i explained to her that i owed 5,600 on my college education. Today that would be 25,000. This was a bank loan my father arranged for me. We got married and i rolled this note into my first mortgage loan. I just paid off my house last year and thus my college education... give me a break. I knew i owed the money and i paid it. I did not look to government to pay it. That never entered my mind.

Baffled

November 9, 2011 3:36 PM

Why is it that everyone assumes that everyone holding a sign has a 'useless liberal arts or women's studies' degree? Was there a poll? Hard, factual evidence? How ignorant, honestly. And for everyone claiming that they should have gone to school for engineering, well, frankly, you have to be pretty damn smart to be accepted into and complete an engineering program. Face it, some people just aren't (not to mention, where would all the jobs be if we ALL went to school for engineering??).
But, what about the kids that went to the Art Institute for Graphic Design (which can be a very promising career), or Culinary Arts, or even Nursing at a for profit vocational school? Typically fields that have a higher rate of employment, but these people can't find jobs because these bogus for profit schools pushed 'financial aid' (loans from Sallie Mae) on those who weren't qualified and weren't educated enough (I'm pretty sure you don't even need SAT scores to apply) to know otherwise. After these students completed their programs, in which no valuable, marketable skills were taught, are left with a USELESS degree. Yes, USELESS. They aren't lazy. They were uneducated and taken advantage of by these for-profit schools. Many are students going to college for the first time in their families, so who could they have looked to that would steer them in the right direction? They thought higher education was the right direction. Stop the ignorance.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I did NOT attend a for profit school, do not hold any of the above mentioned degrees, and am an employed college graduate paying my student loans monthly (until 2030). BUT, I have actually educated myself on the crisis that is the predatory student loan lending practices, unlike the ignorant people who continue to claim that those fighting for a just resolution are lazy, pot smoking hippies studying for world peace.

no stopping

November 9, 2011 3:58 PM

Please get the facts before you judge.

Predatory Lending. No Consumer protection.

forgivestudentloandebt.com

educate yourself. It's not the college of 10 years ago even. It's a whole new ball game. The middle class is at risk. It must be defended at all costs. We should not need to work 3 jobs, eat ramen noodles for every meal, and live in a cardboard box. We went to school to educate ourselves so we could live a happy middle class life. Where the heck did it go???

Richard Basque

November 9, 2011 4:43 PM

‎10 TRILLION a year in Corporate welfare we spend... BUT there is no money for social programs...but we have an additional 1 TRILLION for war...but there is no money for Universal healthcare...or Free education...


But... if you are paying attention to the past 30 years...you ought to be angry! Angry at the system that kills the human spirit! Angry at the corporations! Angry at the Neoliberals like Bush & Obama...!!!

If we have money to kill people then we ought to have money to help people... Government is the solution NOT the problem...if you doubt this ask the Bankers and Corporate parasites that got bailed out with 23 TRILLION of tax payers funding...I guess government was not a problem then ah???

We are the 99% and Neoliberalism is the most decadent argument presented on this thread!!!

Jamie

November 9, 2011 4:46 PM

This is a case of Cognitive Dissonance. The masses just do not see that there is a problem and corporate greed is at the head of it. The masses know something is wrong as they witnessed the housing bubble burst, but now put blame on those who are more vocal about the next bubble to burst which is student loans. It must be just too much for them to bear since they cannot believe that their way of life has changed forever. Nothing is as it seems. The suburbs are now the hotspot of poverty where it used to be inner city blight. Middle class America is gone forever and the masses know it, but just cannot believe it..yet.

topazmoon11

November 9, 2011 5:01 PM

Excellent commentary. I wish there was a "like" or a "reply" button because people are making such provocative points. The most important point in the student loan crisis as far as I'm concerned, however, is that the problem is that people can't make their monthly payments and it's about to crash the economy! Just like with the subprime mortgages, greedy banks and lenders have pushed easy government subsidized loans with unfair terms and now people can't pay them. The federal government itself gets away with charging up to 8.5% interest capitalized and compounded daily - which adds roughly 50% over what you've borrowed when paid over a 10 year period -way more when you stretch repayment period to 20 or 25 years as is more common nowadays ! More than all of the other contributing factors combined, it is the excessive fees, penalties and interest that private banks and lenders have been allowed to place on these loans, to the point that monthly repayment has become impossible for hundreds of thousands of people that is to blame for the mess we are in and the call for student loan forgiveness.

Every piece of legislation that has been passed regarding student loans ever since the inception of the Federal Student Loan Program in 1965 has been to the benefit of lenders and to the detriment of student borrowers, thanks to constant lobbying and intrusion into our lending laws by lobbyists for the American Bankers Association, Sallie Mae and others who profit enormously from student loans. We have allowed this even to the point of stripping bankruptcy and basic consumer protections from student loans. Many consumer laws in place on mortgages and credit cards do not apply to student loans. They operate like payday loans, capitalizing interest and compounding it daily even when the borrower is in deferment and can't afford to make a payment, or now, under new law, while in graduate school. Those loans will be enormous by the time the student gets out and gets a job, if there is even a job to be had, no matter what field the student pursues. The whole system is so weighted against the student borrower, corrupted and inflated that it should be thrown out; all student loans for this time period forgiven to stimulate the economy, and then re-created to serve our national need for an educated workforce in a lean, limited way to advance the goal of an educated workforce ready to meet the national demands of the future.

Shellyrenee

November 9, 2011 6:58 PM

I'm a college grad overwhelmed with student loans. My father lost his job as an electrician at a Midwestern auto factory my freshman year of college, and suddenly we had no way to pay my tuition. He was 2 years shy of retirement and never found another job despite applying for hundreds of them. It would not have made sense financially for me to transfer and finish at a state school, so I applied for loans. I had no choice.

As a bar manager, I receive impressive resumes from nice looking young men and women with masters degrees from ivy league schools. AND THEY CAN'T FIND JOBS IN THEIR FIELDS. I'm not talking "useless" majors. Brilliant minds, and they want to mix martini's.

There is a serious problem. Anyone who would accuse us grads of being lazy is simply ignorant. We have tried. We scour websites for endless hours looking for openings. We write an impressive cover letter and resume, only to hear no response. If we get an interview,
we dress up, only to find 300 other grads looking for the same position.

Now our loans are in default despite our best efforts.


Aly

November 12, 2011 7:11 AM

I think there need to be bail-outs for students. There are bail-outs and assistance for people who lie on their bums and don't work or be productive, who have addictions, etc.. Why not for the people who are actually trying?

@ the rude people insulting the people protesting, please read a history book. These people are indulging what our country was built on, and assembly has and always will be an important part of this country! You need not insult their intelligence with immature comments that would imply they are wasting all of their time protesting instead of "looking for a job". Really? One afternoon of their time took up all of their job-hunting time? For shame.

AdRoc

November 14, 2011 4:55 PM

If you forgave student loan debt to any degree you bailed out the housing market, it would have a HUGE impact on the housing market. Think about it, there would suddently be this enormous population with significant extra monthly disposable income...and it would be real. Many of them would in turn buy places or pay more in rent which would increase the value of properties. Plus, banks would lend to them since, on paper, they could now afford a mortgage payment.
Demonizing students in the same way as people who speculated on home values is unfair. There is no negotiation if you want to go to school - the tuition is what it is and its insanely high at most schools AND you can't utilize bankruptcy. Houses are negotiable and bankruptcy is an option. Not the same thing - out of control education debt MUCH more restrictive on society. Not to mention school is generally a good thing, as opposed to housing speculation and mortgage trading which is just greed that blew up in everyone's face.

debtpuncher

November 18, 2011 2:03 AM

I dont agree with a bail-out per se, but to let them be discharged like in the days of pre-2005 bankruptcy reform. The reason is I dont want tax dollars being used/wasted to satisfy an already fraudulent practice. Stick it to the greedy culprits such as Sally Mae who are cashing in on 10 fold profits and building major league stadiums. I myself have a personal story. Im 39,000 in debt and work at a gas station with a BS in Business Management. I refuse to pay back this and WILL NOT. There are NO JOBS. PERIOD. Go to the local job service and here is what you find:: retail,cooks, temp jobs and the sparse assistant manager job (where your someones bitch not actually managing a business) Blame can go start right in highschool and ends with Sally Mae. I mean parents to tell us to go to college at ANY COST is one problem. Another problem is too many people are going to college. Thats cool 150,000 people with the same degree going after 10 job openings. Your degree means as much as someone winning $1.00 in the lottery. No one is gonna care because everyone else wins a dollar too. Want a cookie? Give the ingredients to success such as a job market, the payments on loans will follow. It does not work the other way around. Workers dont work a credit system either. Which means no one pay on their student loans if the education didnt deliver. Work on a cash basis only. Get the HUGE GOOD JOB , then pay the loans. Another problem I see is the lack of accountability. In such that it always seem to point back to the end user(consumer/borrower) Tell me how can a teenage 17 year old decision turn into a 40000$ accountability when they haven't even had their first credit card yet? Banks need to be held responsible 100% for any lending of such intrinsic amounts to kids who are told by mom go to college or your not part of the family. This make me sick to the stomach. No one going to college is financially sound, or even competent to even be taking out such vast amounts of money to begin with. Its like a loan shark going to the local play ground and loaning to little girls knowing they cant have a job to pay back cause they are in elementary school. WAKE UP AMERICA! p.s. I feel sorry for those on here complaining that they went to school and had no debt, good for you dumbass; now the difference between you and the one who borrowed is that you actually LOST all that money and still didnt get a THE DEGREE PAYING JOB while the borrower got a refund :D IDIOT!

Sam

November 23, 2011 6:42 AM

I don't think there should be a student loan bail out. Everyone who takes out a student loan is in the same boat and the majority people have paid off their loans with no problems. What does it teach children if every time they get into a spot of bother, someone is always there to save them?

If students managed their money intelligently then maybe they would not have such huge debt:

http://www.prosperityhut.com/846/3-ways-to-get-cheap-textbooks-for-college/

http://www.prosperityhut.com/551/student-debit-card/

Indentured Servant

December 8, 2011 8:36 AM

I love it when the ignorant and self-righteous get on these student loan blogs… careful who you judge because the same ill-fate will be yours in the future. Private student loans were a scam. Federal student loans and private student loans have driven up tuition, triple in some schools, in the last ten years. Education is a value and has been marketed as the only way to get ahead. You would do better to argue the importance of a Art History degree with the numerous University Presidents across the U.S.A., there must be some reason why that degree is still offered… EVERYONE is to blame for this. Not just the "idiot" who believed the hype and borrowed the easy money.

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