Unemployment for Young Vets: 30%, and Rising

Posted by: Dan Beucke on November 11, 2011 at 3:45 PM

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On Veterans Day in America, it’s sobering to realize just how badly the job market has turned against the men and women who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their rate of unemployment was 12.1 percent in October, vs. 9 percent for the U.S. overall. But that only scratches the surface of the employment picture for vets.

Dig deeper into the pages of U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics employment data and it becomes apparent that while the job market is slowly improving for most Americans, it’s moving in the opposite direction for Gulf War II vets (defined by the BLS as those on active duty since 2001). The youngest of veterans, aged 18 to 24, had a 30.4 percent jobless rate in October, way up from 18.4 percent a year earlier. Non-veterans of the same age improved, to 15.3 percent from 16.9 percent. For some groups, the numbers can look a good deal worse: for black veterans aged 18-24, the unemployment rate is a striking 48 percent.

(The BLS provided us with hundreds of pages of data beyond what’s easily found on the Internet; if you want to analyze the numbers yourself, we’ve posted them for October 2011 and for October 2010 here.)

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That 18-24 category only covers 320,000 veterans. I used BLS data to expand the bracket and calculate the rates for vets aged 18 to 34. Unfortunately, the trend still holds up: their jobless rate grew to 16.6 percent in October, from 12.6 percent a year earlier. For non-veteran men and women of that bracket, the jobless rate shrank, to 11.4 percent from 12.0 percent. The issue is not just that unemployment among young vets is high. It’s that if there’s even a limited jobs recovery, they are not sharing in it.

“The numbers don’t lie,” says Ryan Gallucci, deputy legislative director for the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Washington. “The new veterans are going into the unemployment pile.”

The “new” part is key. From age 35 on, for the most part veterans have a lower unemployment rate than non-vets. In surveys earlier this decade, veterans aged 25-34 also did well. The BLS released figures in 2005 that showed veterans in that age group with a lower unemployment rate than their peers (just 3.8 percent vs. 5.0 percent.) For 2008, the rate for vets 25-34 was just a shade above that for those who hadn’t served in the military. Now for that group it’s 11.7 percent, well above the 9.2 percent rate for non-veterans. What might be most worrying is that what’s happening with younger vets looks like a leading indicator: the cohort of veterans now entering the work force in the midst of the economic malaise may point to a future in which veterans are falling behind their peers.

Why would someone coming out of military service have a harder time finding a job? Think about the demographics of a young soldier. Most are men, and unemployment is worse now for men: 9.5 percent in October vs. 8.5 percent for women. Younger vets are coming right out of high school; the job market punishes those with less education. Many vets come from and return to rural and rust-belt areas that are struggling. And the cut-throat competition for jobs has been hardest on those out of work the longest; fair or not, eight years in the Army is viewed by some employers as eight years without private-sector skills and experience. At a job summit held by the House Committee on Veterans Affairs in September, Gallucci says, some companies said many vets have a hard time adjusting to corporate culture.

The skills issue is particularly troubling. Hiring is strongest in jobs that require specialized education, and weakest for blue collar jobs, says Stephen Fuller, a professor of employment and economics at George Mason University in Arlington, Va. Even military jobs that are in the right ballpark for growth industries — say, software or electronics technician — may involve specialization that doesn’t readily apply to Silicon Valley’s Web 2.0 or software-services jobs. Some military positions seem to line up perfectly with their civilian counterpart — think of an emergency medical technician or truck driver. But that doesn’t mean the soldier comes out with the required licensing. Someone who’s been driving an armored truck through the mine-strewn streets of Iraq still has to pass state driver certification.

How could it get worse? Let’s say the Congressional deficit committee fails to achieve a breakthrough in the next two weeks. The result will be $500 billion of automatic cuts to the Pentagon budget over the next 10 years. There are a number of ways that could play out, but the House Armed Services Committee estimated in September such an outcome would push nearly 200,000 additional soldiers and Marines onto the job market. The draw-down of forces in Iraq and Afghanistan is already sending more troops home.

It doesn’t help that a higher proportion of vets work for government (that’s even truer of disabled vets). That has been the hardest-hit employment sector recently. Over the past two months alone, 57,000 federal, state and local jobs have been eliminated. President Obama made it a priority for federal agencies to increase hiring of vets; 25 percent of all federal civilian hires in fiscal 2010 were veterans. At least at the state and local level, many vets move into police and fire jobs, which haven’t been targeted as much as, say, teachers.

Is there any hope? In a rare breakout of bi-partisan agreement, the Senate yesterday passed a bill that grants tax credits for companies that hire vets and overhauls job training and counseling. The House is expected to OK it next week. Daniel Indiviglio over at The Atlantic has analyzed the tax credits and found that while they may help some veterans find work, they probably won’t boost hiring overall. The job training changes, according to the VFW’s Gallucci, should make it easier for military jobs to translate into civilian certification.

In other words, it could help a little. Still, to quote George Mason’s Fuller, for vets “it gets worse before it gets better.”

Update: One big difference with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is that more of the soldiers going overseas are women. Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial Holdings Inc., talks in this Bloomberg Television interview about the challenges for women vets reintegrating into the economy. (I ran the BLS numbers; the unemployment rate in October for women vets aged 18-34 was 13.2 percent vs. 11.2 percent for non-vet women. One small bit of good news: both those rates are lower than they were a year ago: 14.2 percent for vets, 11.6 percent for non-vets.)

(Photographer: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Reader Comments

Dave

November 11, 2011 9:55 AM

So now let's go into Iran and reward our vets who are doing the will of the military industrial complex and oil companies by not giving them jobs. America really has a warped sense of duty.

Jim Flood

November 11, 2011 10:52 AM

Very disappointing to read this. These vets have qualities that should make employers drool......accountable, responsible, ethical, leadership, able to follow orders, ability to work under stress, mature beyond their years.
Corporate America needs to wake up and embrace this talent pool.

james

November 11, 2011 11:01 AM

One issue rarely discussed is that many of these veterans stay in the reserves and can voluntarily or involuntarily be called up for further duty. Since our wars now last forever (rather than short call ups for disasters) employers are required to keep jobs open for these reservists for an indefinite time. Not practical anymore so better not to hire a veteran over someone else.

Eric

November 11, 2011 11:56 AM

While this article is very dissappointing, I literally read an article this morning basically contradicting it in Fortune. Here is the link:
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/11/10/veterans-unemployment-hiring/?iid=SF_F_River

I hope reality is closer to the Fortune article than this Bloomberg one. Vets deserve so much more than what they are given.

PsedoTurtle

November 11, 2011 12:15 PM

There are a lot of VERY serious things wrong with this analysis, but what bothers me the most is one of the main reasons veterans can't get jobs is they are competing against millions of illegal aliens for jobs at the bottom of the ladder. You know, the "jobs that no one wants," which is why they are still here. But is not PC to mention that as a major factor.

And, yes, I am a military veteran -- Viet Nam era, for those of you who even remember that war at all, since it is no longer PC to mention it either.

Cal Bear

November 11, 2011 12:33 PM

Obviously the US needs to lift the quota on 'temporary non-immigrant' H1B visas since there are so many jobs for which no US Citizen (or legal immigrant aka green card holder) is willing/able to do!

Anyone who suggests otherwise is just a 'racist', 'xenophobe' and/or 'protectionist'!!!

Levi

November 11, 2011 12:38 PM

Though the numbers and article at face value appear sad, try putting emotions aside and look at this from a practical standpoint. A kid chooses to go into the military for 4 years +or- 1 or 2 and then choose not to re-enlist. Okay, so aside from a handful of vocations that are in limited demand, what good paying job with U6 unemployment of 16% are they supposed to get? They DO NOT EXIST!!! I know CPA's and highly skilled Engineers with part time jobs. CRAP -the area Cape Canaveral, Florida has been CRUSHED because the Space Shuttle program was scrapped, TONS have lost jobs, TONS who are highly skilled... Want to blame someone, BLAME WASHINGTON. Looks to me that UNION JOBS ARE DOING REALLY, REALLY, WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

David Wilson

November 11, 2011 12:46 PM

There is a patent bias against veterans in corporate America. Veterans know that they and their brothers spilled blood for corporate interests and both parties know it. When a soldier walks off the battlefield and sees executives swatting golf balls and laughing like life is dandy, while soldier's protect their interests overseas, the bitterness reaches a boiling point. None of those guys' sons fought. If someone is willing to send you to your death for cash, there's no reason to want to work for them. I'd rather be homeless my whole life than work in the highest wrungs of Exxon while my brothers get shot at overseas. You can take your job and shove it

Peter Lomtevas

November 11, 2011 1:00 PM

One comes to expect that the federal government will do nothing for its veterans.

Rich

November 11, 2011 1:13 PM

At the risk of being controversial, we need to understand that not all vets served in an actual war and not all vets are employable. Last year at this time, I read a story about a vet that served 2 years stateside then got out of the service. Twenty years later, he has been mostly unemployed and blames the government for not doing more for him. Exactly how much do we want our gov't to spend on vets that simply were never able to take care of themselves in the first place?
My father was a career Air Force person and also did civilian contract work on the base we were stationed at. When in high school, I would help him on projects. There, I met Air Force employees that could not figure out how to get a desk into an office, and I (being 16, mind you) told them to flip the desk sideways. They were amazed. My father told me there was no shortage of personnel that were none too bright. We need to realize that some people simply don't have capable skill sets, and address that matter in an entirely different direction.

Bill McNeely

November 11, 2011 1:41 PM

Since the beginning of the financial crisis in 2008 and the realization that veterans were out of work at a much higher level than their civilian counterparts, much hand wringing has occurred over what is the root cause of the problem. Non-profits advocating for veterans, government officials and to a lesser extent, the Fortune 500, have bantered about many well intentioned but half -baked solutions. Silicon Valley (well known producer of new jobs) has been mum on the subject to date with the exception of Craig Newmark of craigslist.com fame.

Most of the early discussion focused on the poor translation of military skills to plain english that civilian employers could easily understand. More effort is being put forth educating military alumni on job search subjects such as writing an effective resume, how to do a phone interview, sourcing job leads, dressing for the interview etc. However this only addresses the here and now of the veteran unemployment equation.

Up until late Summer of 2011 the discourse seemed to have more of charity overtone to it. The thinking seemed to be veterans are entitled to jobs merely because they fought for our country regardless of individual capability. A small minority of veterans seemed to think they were entitled as well. On LinkedIn I have seen my share of posts that blast civilian hiring managers who don’t hire vets while arguing for front of the line privileges in the federal employment process.

Thankfully the discourse seemed to change from an emphasis on charity and entitlement to one of getting the most out of our investment in today’s young people. As part of Time magazine’s cover package entitled The New Greatest Generation Rajiv Srinivasan advocates in his piece Making The Sale: How to Deal With Unemployment Among Veterans that causes that are presented as a charity get treated as such, with interest fading with time, causes that get pitched as investments are taken much more seriously and have legs that can run the marathon that is a career.

As part of treating our veterans as an investment in our future we need to acknowledge that the biggest factor in veteran long term unemployment is the lack of education whether in the form of a degree or a certification program

An April 26, 2011 Tech Crunch article stated despite triple the education resources in the new GI Bill, less than 6% of military men and women use their complete education benefits and only 25% complete the degrees they start.

Of the 6% of former military men and women who do use their GI Bill, a significant number are earning their degree through for-profit schools. The concern here is that veterans are not being properly counseled toward a degree plan that will lead to a viable career path that is the right fit for the individual. The emphasis is on profit and not the long term career goals of the student. Approximately $1B of the $4B of GI Bill funds paid out last year ended up in the hands of just 8 schools as reported by Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

Many veterans who do take advantage of their GI Bill benefits are the first members of their families to attend college. That’s ok. Just like the settlers in the 1800’s who headed out west for better opportunity, these veterans often joined the military with the goal of in mind of improving their lot in life. Unfortunately they don’t have the same support system I had when I first left the service in the mid 90’s. I had a multitude of professionally successful, college educated friends and family I could rely on for advice and encouragement. I could ask:

•What criteria should I use to choose the university to attend?
•How should I schedule my classes and which professors teaching style best suites my learning style?
•How many hours should I work at an outside job?
•What kind of job I could get with a Criminal Justice degree as oppose to a business degree?
•What are the ramifications of taking a general business degree as oppose to a finance degree?
•Should I immediately complete an MBA instead of earning a commission and going back in the service?
The veteran who does not have the support system that I had may fail if they have to figure it out on their own.

This is where veteran friendly, education startup companies like Fidelis College come into play. Fidelis College provides guidance and mentorship all along the transition path out of the military. Military alumni complete the first two years of education online. Once the veteran leaves active duty, Fidelis helps them choose an institution from the US News and World Report Best Colleges in America. After the veteran arrives on a college campus Fidelis keeps up with them, making sure they are taking the right classes, meeting engaged mentors and helping them select the beneficial internships that will land them in the career that is the correct fit for the individual..

As if the lack of a formal education isn't bad enough, possessing the wrong skill set is even worse. This became evident to me while screening candidates while filling a position one of our clients at Hello I'm Logistics. I asked each candidate why they picked the degree they did. An overwhelming number of responses ran along the lines of wanting to "check the block" on a job application. Having a criminal justice degree is ok if you are looking at law enforcement career but that degree however does not give you the background needed to land a logistics management position.

A few days ago I was reading a post by Mark Suster, a celebrity venture capitalist , concerning an investment he made in an online education company called Tree House . During the course of outlining his thesis behind making the investment, Mr. Suster has this to say about education in America
“One of the biggest problems I see with our university system is that we’re graduating too many people from 4-year universities who have the wrong skillset and come out owing large sums of money. I call them “indentured servants” because they come out of college already having an anchor around their necks.

”If you have spent the last 3 or 4 years taking courses online or in the classroom while holding down a full time job (either inside or outside the military) while raising a family be sure your effort and your dollars will provide the outcome you desire.

It is entirely possible veterans may not know what different careers are out there. So veterans may just pick a course of study that their friends are following. 4 years later they are walking across a stage to accept their degree. 6 months on the job they realize they don’t like what they are doing after exhausting their GI Bill benefits.

As part of the transition process out of the military HR professionals from Fortune 500 firms from banking, manufacturing, logistics/supply chain, IT, and the trades sectors (to name only few) should be incentivized to share information about their sector to veterans. I am not talking about $5,000 or $6,000 tax credit I am talking something of substance north of $10M a year in order to pay salaries of top notch folks, training aids, constructing buildings the like.

No matter how much we complain about how manufacturing jobs paying middle class wages have migrated overseas, it will never bring them back to the United States. For that matter, well paying Services related jobs are on the way out as well. The US Economy is firmly a knowledge based one in the second decade of the 21st century.

Encouraging veterans to enter fields such as renewable energy, healthcare, engineering and IT that require a firm understanding of science and math is a must. We must educate veterans, especially those that are under age 35, that there are more career options outside the military than defense contracting. Defense contracting is a short term, old man’s game. It’s not meant to offer a viable, sustainable, family friendly career path. The “Get Rich or Die Trying” mantra only works for the likes of 50 Cent.

Encouraging our young men and women to learn a portable skill such as computer programming, even if it’s outside of a traditional university environment is a winning strategy. Udemy , Khan Academy and Tree House are excellent online outlets for learning and are well suited for the tech savvy youth of today.

Although the US job market is experiencing a 9% + unemployment rate, technology firms located in San Francisco, Austin, Boston, Boulder and Seattle have programming positions open for months due the dearth of qualified candidates. I have spoken with two tech firm founders in the LA and San Francisco area in the last week and both don’t understand why more young people are not skating to the where the puck is .

Getting an education in a field that provides both career fulfillment while also allowing us to provide a reasonable quality of life for our families does not have to be an either / or proposition. Investing in yourself is a risky venture, not just a simple color by number process. Don't just make decisions.... Make GREAT decisions

Kevin

November 11, 2011 2:24 PM

@Rich - Rich, you need not be concerned about being controversial but I do think many who served will feel your assertion is an insult to all who served and still serve today. Truth is the military trains men and women to do many very specific things that have no practical equivalent in the civilian world. I met few people while I served for 6+ years who were not employable outside the military due to a lower level of intelligence. In truth I've met far more less-intelligent people since I was discharged and many of them are paid too much for jobs that are not even necessary but that glorify or otherwise achieve the aims of other overpaid people in management roles.

A True Patriot

November 11, 2011 2:30 PM

As a former US Marine, it is SAD to read this article and even worse to say that it is the sad reality for many vets...

Tom in San Jose

November 11, 2011 2:39 PM

These returning Vets should be some of the first to be joining the OWS/99% movement. Republicans continue to set on their hands and refuse to do anything about creating jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure. My suggestion to these returning Vets is to do the same thing that the WW-I Vets did. Go to Washington and create a modern day Hooverville by camping ou ton the Washington Mall.

Al

November 11, 2011 2:41 PM

I think that now you have to look more deep in the problem of the US job market, in the problem that the Student, the American Intellectuals and educated from US Universities, are having.
I know how important is the emigration problem with Mexico but this can be fixed. In this moment and time I think it will be good for anyone to see the emigration problem and the unemployment problem not in this specter because those pour emigrants (am talking for the emigrants that coming here for jobs and not for the border security for defense purpose) are coming here for $7.00 to $10.00 in hours jobs. I think that you have to address the “mafia job emigration” that is getting the best jobs with $60.00 to $200.00 per hours from the Americans, from those that are paying for more than $200,000.00 for their education.
You know that all Indians and Russians that are working in the IT Industries here in the US for well-known companies are here with a tourist or visitors visas, facilitates by some “mafia” “LEGAL” companies and individuals that are using our lows and some managers and supervisors in those US companies originally coming in US from RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES (like Goldman Sox in New York and FINRA in DC and many more).
Getting some fees from them “mafia job emigration” couple of their monthly salaries and putting and hiring them in those companies. They coming from unknown towns from those countries and unknown universities and putting down our well educated workers and students.
The problem is not that they having those jobs but they are putting down our best Universities. The Interview Questions and the brain teaser questions for getting the jobs in those companies you can have and find in the streets of New Delhi and Lithuania and after coming here it is easy for them to get in, those questions are very secret here for the US prospect workers. If you see those “mafia’s workers” working like robots with no fantasy that is very bad for any business but the other bad thing is that our dollars going out the US and our technologies to and with those and the good name of our colleges and universities beside those jobs.
The government can help with many ways in this BIG problem for our graduated students and well educated people. The government has to STOP giving contracting jobs to those companies that have and stimulate this way of employment. We have to protect and stimulate someone that is a Star in his field if he’s coming from those countries but in the way that is happening this is very bad for us and for the safeness of our country and our prosperity. I am talking here for almost 2-3% of the unemployment in general and almost 75% of the unemployment for the US Workers with the University degrees.

MWK

November 11, 2011 2:43 PM

Unfortunate and disappointing, but in this day and age I'm not surprised. The military's role has shifted from protecting the public interest of the American citizenry to securing the stable future wealth of a select few. I salute those brave enough to risk their lives for their fellow countrymen - braver men and women than I. It's shameful how their valiance is being exploited by the cowards at the helm.

Pilau

November 11, 2011 2:44 PM

The mortuary at dover air force base is a symtomatic problem of the military. You get promoted if you brown nose your way. They don't teach you how to think but to take orders right or wrong. Not a good thing in private business other than a corporation.

Mitchell

November 11, 2011 3:02 PM

Bill makes a great point. Recently I have received a bachelor’s in business. Like many of my fellow vets, I pursued a degree immediately while working full time. Veterans already set themselves 4 years behind to their civilian counter parts. Now, vets are graduating with an age group in which 92% have college degrees. Hopefully these vets have attended top tier universities with a competitive degree.

Christine

November 11, 2011 3:08 PM

This is unacceptable!!! We have to give our service men and women training so that they are ensured a job when they return. We cannot allow them to fight for a country that wont fight for them.

Matt Lane

November 11, 2011 3:34 PM

I CAN HELP RIGHT NOW! I have numerous openings that relate to experience that vets have developed skill sets for while in the military.


Electronics Technician : Carey, OH
Company looking for an individual who is trained as an electrical technician. Candidates must be able to work on heavy machinery and well versed on the following: Allen Bradley, ABB, PLC's hydraulics, pneumatics, electrical/ mechanical prints, oil gear. Base salary with overtime.

Heavy Mechanic : Cleveland, Columbus, Carrol, OH : Clarksville, Bowling Green, Hanesville KY, Nashville, TN
Company looking for a field service heavy mechanic. Will maintain and repair excavating equipment (ie Bulldozers, cranes, ect) along with other heavy equipment. Must be versed in welding, hydraulics, pneumatics, electronics, general mechanical operation. Candidate will operate out of provided service truck (will not report to an office) and cover the Western Tennessee and Central Kentucky territory. Must be CDL Qualified. Salary is determined by skill level.

Please email me for more info!

mlane@searchpath.com

1st Sgt Butch Smith

November 11, 2011 3:42 PM

As a retired U.S. Army 1st Sergeant (1971 - 2001) and a business owner running a tech company, I want to ask this simple question. Why are we retraining our vets? As one put it, they have skills. Some of them don't work out here and so as a business I adjust to what those skills are . I already know that a young soldier can do this and that and show up on time, so I adjust my business needs to them and not the other way. This is just one reason we have some many issues here. Everyone thinks that they are entitled to everything at once. Get over it, go to work and life will be just fine. By the way...Happy Veterans day to all.

Sarge

Dexter

November 11, 2011 3:57 PM

Unfortunately, many of the soldiers who signed up right out of high school did so because their professional and/or academic prospects were bleak to begin with.

If a high school senior enlists because he/she can't afford college or isn't qualified for a job, then there is no guarantee that their military training will be applicable to a civilian job once they get out. These statistics seem to prove that theory.

Patriot for Peace

November 11, 2011 3:57 PM

Amazing that there is no private sector demand for killing people and blowing stuff up.

I am bowled over.

Michael Rivero

November 11, 2011 4:03 PM

"See, the plan called for you all to die over there, so if you refuse to follow our plan, then you only have yourselves to blame for being out of work and hungry!" -- Official White Horse Souse

Daniel Wood

November 11, 2011 4:26 PM


We are now in a global economy.
many could benefit with entrepreneurial skills.

Who would "like" to learn about a new business opportunity offering outstanding earning potential with ongoing training and support?

DanielWood@acnrep.com

David

November 11, 2011 4:27 PM

We are hiring in Rockville, MD for a warehouse position and sales support please visit www.architecturalceramics.net if anyone would like to apply for these positions. Glad to support veterans.

Mary

November 11, 2011 4:37 PM

I like Sarge's attitude. Thanks for great post.
This is the day to honor our vets.

John A. Mele

November 11, 2011 4:54 PM

David Wilson, has hit a vital spot and spoken with candor. There is great wall against War veterans from corporate America.

Those who serve with honor and return with such are a threat to a work culture that thwarts such and puts the bottom line ahead of all.

Better to live in a tent as I tell my wife and I'm 61!

Bravo..David

and no it is not the illegals that are causing our problems. I am so sorry for my fellow Na Vet that harbors such hatred. I hear it all the time ...

http://journeytowhitehorse.posterous.com/
John Mele ( Nam 69 USMC 0331)

JAMES CRAWFORD

November 11, 2011 5:36 PM

OUR FAMILY BUSINESS HAS A OPENING FOR A HEAVY EQUIPMENT AND TRUCK MECHANIC PAY BASED ON SKILLS. HELP FULL IF YOU HAVE WELDING EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE OF ELECTRIC OVER HYDRAULIC CIRCUITS. PLEASE APPLY WE ARE LOCATED IN CLEVELAND OHIO

GOOD LUCK AND HEALTH TO ALL JIM

Billy Mo

November 11, 2011 6:45 PM

I easily found a job after returning from an honorable discharge from the U.S. Air Force. In 2006 I lost my 70k job after 16 years. Since then I have looked and applied for work diligently, not only applying for jobs associated with my experience but for anything.. I have received zero offers. I ended up losing my home, car, retirement account and most of my possessions. My unemployment ran out at the beginning of 2010 and I have lived off of what I had saved. On the first of March I paid my last dollar for rent on a small room. I have looked for some sort of aid to keep me from becoming homeless. I have contacted the VA, Community Action Agency, Catholic Charities, VFW, Purple Hearts, American Legion, United Way, Goodwill, city Mayor even Senator's office and received NO help or assistance and in some cases no reply whatsoever. No one really seems to care. I don't know where else to turn. My sons can stay with their mother, but it looks as if I will be joining the ranks of the homeless. My country gained my admiration seeing it work from the inside while I served it. Now I am gaining a new perspective of it from the unemployment line, the food pantry and the homeless shelter.
http://tinyurl.com/6y4so4s

AMOS MATTOX

November 11, 2011 7:34 PM

THIS # IS REFLECTING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE USING THE NEW GI BILL THEY GET PAID BAH AROUND 1100-1500 A MONTH TO GO TO COLLEGE. PEOPLE ARE PROB TRYING TO MAKE IT ON THAT AND MAYBE WORKING UNDER THE TABLE OR LIVING WITH FAMILY MEMBERS. I BELIEVE ANY VET WHO HAS IT IN HIS MIND TO WORK COULD EASILY FIND A JOB! V/R GSE3 MATTOX!

Nick Armstrong

November 11, 2011 7:45 PM

That's lame. They've got great experience!

After reading this, I decided that Veterans can get a free copy of my book: http://www.psychoticresumes.com/

Chris

November 11, 2011 10:07 PM

Were hiring and gladly help. contact us. Amos in my experience as a recruiter many are doing just as you state. facebook.com/militarybench

K. Mark Northrup

November 11, 2011 10:30 PM

I am a 20-year Navy Veteran (retired from active duty in 2003) and was on one of the first carriers to start dropping bombs on Afghanistan following 9/11. With a service-connected disability rating from the VA of 30% (though I do not feel disabled), I was able to finish my BS in Interdisciplinary Sciences with an eye to being a science writer (Carl Sagan, the wonder of the Cosmos, "billions and billions," and all that)-I was not a warm-n-fuzzy "human services" type. I do have an interest in cognitive science, evolutionary psychology, and the ways in which our thinking and reasoning can go awry. When I first came across the Dunning-Kruger Effect (check out Wikipedia's entry on it and follow the links to the original research) it was a real Eureka! Moment for me.

How I came to my current position as a Disabled Veterans Outreach Program (DVOP) Specialist (commonly called a "Vet Rep") with my state's equivalent of the US DoL (i.e. 'job service") is a long story and I will not go into it here. One of my duties is to facilitate (i.e. teach) the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) workshops for service members (and their spouses/partners) that are transitioning to back to civilian life-and this program is about to launch a major rewrite of its content-the first in nearly a decade (and one could tell-the content was getting noticeably outdated).

While some vets will do extremely well outside the military, others, I am afraid to say, will undoubtedly struggle. When facilitating the workshops one of the things I see participants struggle with the most is brainstorming. I remember one young lady who wanted to start her own dance studio when she got out. I will probably go the rest of my career (I have other ambitions and do not plan to do this until I retire) without hearing that exact same goal again-though the woman involved did seem to have the physical grace of a dancer. However, she was very disappointed that there was not a prefabricated, pre-planned path to her particular goal. Admittedly, if someone wishes to go into teaching upon leaving the military, there are programs for that, but that program (Troops to Teachers) and others like it, are the exception rather than the rule. I spent over 20 minutes with this (soon-to-be) vet during the résumé writing portion of the workshop asking her if she had tried looking online for organizations for dance instructors, or contacting the arts faculties at high schools and colleges in the area she plans to go to. She had not. As the Nobel Prize-winning chemist Linus Pauling is reputed to have said, "The way to get good ideas is to have lots of ideas and throw the bad ones out." For many people, this is much easier said than done.

I have found this to be a general quality of the majority (defined as 51% or more) of vets (and non-vets) I interact with; an inability or reluctance to brainstorm, to ask themselves "what if?" questions, or think "outside the box." Psychologists have a word for this: "metacognition," and is essentially the ability to reflect on one's own thought processes. An example of the lack of metacognitive ability (and to be clear, I have NEVER seen a vet do what follows) is people who incompletely fill out a job application, in pencil(!!!!!!) and then are perplexed as to why they never hear from employers!!!! Metacognitive skills are what makes you think to yourself, "okay, I have been doing 'A' but that does not seem to be working. Is there anything I am missing? Am I making assumptions I should not be? I have been doing 'A' to get 'X' as the result...is there another, better way to get to result X, and if so, how might I go about finding it?" Basically, it is the ability to troubleshoot our own thinking, and most people do not have it.

While vets do have many transferable skills employers want, the military is not renowned for rewarding or encouraging thinking that is "outside the box." If one starts out in a particular field in the military based on what their ASVAB scores indicate they can do, but after doing that for several years it is clearly not where the individual's talents and abilities would be best put to use, it is next to impossible to change direction. If one is not a "stellar performer" within the strictly-delineated confines of one's MOS/NEC/AFSC/ or whatever, it is very hard to break out of that–I speak from personal experience because the last two years of my career I WAS let "outside the box" by an officer in my outfit-himself a former enlisted-who saw I had a lot more to contribute than I was being permitted to. Bill M. exhorted people to "Don't just make decisions....Make GREAT decisions," but how can a person make "great decisions" if they have no clue as to what a poor decision looks like because no one has ever told them? Sounds like something on the jacket of a vapid, feel-good self-help book, and about as useful.

At work there is a phrase for someone who works closely with a job seeker, a "job coach." I have often observed that what people really need is a "job drill sergeant" like the "drill-sergeant turned therapist" in the GEICO commercial, able to put a boot up their @#$. Bill M. noted that the US is now a "knowledge economy," with which I whole-heartedly agree. As Steve Rowe notes in the introduction to his show Dirty Jobs, there will always be a need to those that do the jobs "that make civilized life possible for the rest of us." The problem is, throughout the 20th and into the 21st century, that thanks to technology, fewer people are needed for those jobs, but the supply of people to do those jobs, as a proportion of the general population, has remained steady. It is a fact of statistics that 50% of a population will always be of below average "intelligence," "aptitude," "ability," "ambition," or whatever you want to call it–every bit as much a fact as the fact that 50% of a population will always be below average height. A person's maximum possible height is set by their genes, but as most of us know, it can be stunted by disease and/or malnutrition in childhood. A similar plasticity is coming to light for the human brain.

I am frequently flabbergasted at work when a recently retired vet sits down at my desk and I learn that during their 20+ year career they did not bother to take a single college-level course! Someone, somewhere failed them because they were never told, point-blank, how incredibly stupid it is not to think ahead. You can lose your house, your rank, your spouse, and a whole list of other things, but the knowledge and skills you gain by challenging yourself intellectually and facing your insecurities in that area, that can never, ever, be taken from you (except, perhaps, you committed "academic fraud" in obtaining a degree or certification). I have little sympathy for such folks. I started taking college classes starting my second four-year enlistment and did not stop for more than a year or two when my kids were very young right up until a month before my retirement. Some say that one must "believe in something, or you'll fall for anything"...my motto was always, "question EVERYTHING, and you will fall for nothing." (I am always amazed I lasted 20 years in the military.)

I was flight-line level maintenance on the EA-6B Prowler (Electronic Warfare) and when I retired, there were lots of jobs for those that worked on the guts of the "black boxes" in nice, air-conditioned shops and had experience on specific electronic "test benches," but not for those that worked out in the weather, even though I had an Associate Degree in Electronics from a real "brick and mortar" school-not from some cheesy on-line outfit. Very early in my career, I knew that my future was my responsibility. What must be made clear to all, not just vets, is that in this new "economy of knowledge" lazily settling for mediocrity will not be tolerated. Redefining "excellence" as "elitism," however much it may soothe folks' inferiority complexes, does not make mediocrity a virtue.

Brendan Doran

November 12, 2011 1:45 AM

This is how to start a crime wave.

Vet

satch

November 12, 2011 2:04 AM

lol do not go in the military as enlisted and take a job that cannot feed you when you get.2.the hard cold truth is nobody cares you were in the military except gov,t contract jobs.3.the prowler mech should know he needs FAA airframe and powerlant license to have a good career in aviation.

Bao

November 12, 2011 2:10 AM

Not sure why some of these comments make vets out to be the best of society. What are we, a bunch of Nazis? I thought we were a modern democracy.

People join the military because they can't get a job otherwise. You really think a young guy's weighing 4 years at Harvard or torturing and killing some Arabs for oil? No, you idiots. He's thinking it sucks that he didn't get that graveyard shift job at 7-11, so might as well join the military.

donna

November 12, 2011 2:19 AM

As a researcher in employment and welfare issues (albeit in a tiny country at the bottom of the world), I am appalled that so many of the comments here are in the 'blame the victim' mode so common in these debates. I might be missing something, but it's OK to send America's young men and women to fight imperialist wars but when they come back, if they can't find jobs it's because they're stupid or lazy? Well guess what? Even stupid people are entitled to work to earn a decent living, and until 2008 many of them did. One of the reasons Europe has a well developed welfare state (you know, the one that most Americans despise) is because people got sick of the sight of WW1 veterans selling pencils on street corners to feed themselves. Now, in 2011 it's no wonder so many US vets are occupying their cities.

gmathol

November 12, 2011 2:28 AM

Why - should we care? This people murdered in the interest/profit of Wall Street and Wall Street should take care of them.

To make it clear - one who thinks that these people serve us or their country - is nuts.

Why would anybody hire people with murder, torture background?

Dingus

November 12, 2011 2:28 AM

This is a hot coal someone will stoke to full flame for political advantage. In addition, the VA has made a deal with Homeland Security to trick the vet into giving away control of access to VA medical files... to all police and law enforcement as feature of routine ID checks on vets (MyVet). This is to gauge their threat potential with PTSD/combat psychosis/TBI. Cops are going to be coiled to react against those trained in aggression and skills in killing when conducting all routine ID checks and responds to domestic violence calls... Its a social timebomb waiting for a flash.

Andrey

November 12, 2011 3:35 AM

USSR has came through in this in the 80s: lot's of strong/yong men coming back from war (Afganistan) & feeling themselves betrayted [being left without job & poor medical/social care]. Big challenge for the society...

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November 12, 2011 3:50 AM

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Shame on Demint

November 12, 2011 4:58 AM

Senator Jim Demint was the sole no vote to support the hiring of troops in a tax incentive to do so. The only one. Shame on Jim Demint. What a jerk.

Bapnish Folbgrink

November 12, 2011 5:45 AM

One of war's functions is to remove excess unskilled labor from society either by keeping a fair amount of the younger end of the potential worker pool of the domestic economy or simply killing them. By making our soldiers more efficient and increasing their survival rate we have effectively removed war's most attractive feature, its positive effect on unemployment.

Amy Drinnon

November 12, 2011 6:25 AM

I am proud to announce that as a business owner, I have provided many soldiers with a better way to make a living and that's by giving them an opportunity to build their own business that will last a lifetime and then willable to their children or whomever they want to give it to. It is incredible just hard to get the word out, so I do it one family at a time. Ask the Marines in North Caroline. If you are interested call me Amy, 954-993-3669 or email me at amy@amydrinnon.com and I will get you the information to review. Why work for someone else when you can work for yourself?

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November 12, 2011 8:30 AM

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Rob

November 12, 2011 8:37 AM

@ Bapnish Folbrink. You really need to reconsider some of your positions before you post them on-line. Your comment that one of war's functions is to remove excess unskilled labor from society, and that the increase in modern war's survival rates removes war's most attractive features, that being its "positive effect on unemployment," is not only ignorant, but also extremely insensitive. If you cannot participate in a discussion appropriately, then please do not participate!

On another note, I've really enjoyed reading the otherwise overwhelming support for our troops on this issue. I believe that the relationship between society and its armed forces is a very important one. I've been in the armed forces for 6 years and am grateful for the support we receive from our country in every way.

Cynthia Medina

November 12, 2011 9:48 AM

As the mother of a soldier currently serving our country in Afghan this article alarms me. As an American, this article saddens me.

I am so proud to work for a company that not only employees veterans, but actively takes steps to support our troops. I think it is up to each of us to speak up and make our management aware of the civic duties we all have to those who sacrifice for our freedom.

On a separate note, we all need to remember that part of the freedom our soldiers fight for is the right of Free Speech. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion openly. My child risks his life everyday to ensure it!

el

November 12, 2011 11:20 AM

These soldiers dont get good work training--the military industry makes them more ignorant by the time they get out--they re-up for service.

Tan

November 12, 2011 8:22 PM

NOw we know why we want to invade IRAN. because we got too many jobless veterans coming back from Iraq and Afganistan.

K. Mark Northrup

November 13, 2011 2:54 AM

Quick one for Satch:

By the time I retired I had qualified as a "Full-Systems Quality Assurance Representative," and authorized to sign off on nearly any maintenance action not involving ordinance or ejection seats, my training and education was in avionics and I had no desire at all to get an A&P license or be a glorified grease-monkey. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

For "JR" and "Big M":

I detest the actions the previous administration for getting us mired in Iraq and basically "making crap up" to justify it. I also deplore the attitude of the "flag-wavin'", "God and Country" ignoramuses (lotsa vets in this group) who complain about those that question and/or protest against the actions of their elected officials, maintaining that they are not "patriotic" and therefore equally an enemy. "Joe the Plumber" (where is he now, BTW?) could not have written the Declaration or the Constitution to save his life. It took men with the intellectual chops of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams, just to name a few, to articulate the ideals on which this country was founded. Sadly, like most ideals, we have often fell far short in realizing them.

Throughout our history, both before and after the Revolution, many of the most dire threats to our freedoms have come from within. "Commie" witch-hunts in the 1950's, the "Alien and Sedition Acts" (passed in 1798 and repealed by Congress in 1832) which attempted to stifle critics of the government in the popular press.

By the same token, not defending ourselves in WW2 would not have ended well for Western democracies-whatever conspiracy theories about FDR and Pearl Harbor might assert, the Axis Powers would still have come gunning for us after they were finished with Europe.

My point is that BOTH types are needed to maintain a free society. Those on either end of this ideological continuum that think we can do without one or the other have not thought it through (but you are in a club with a lot of members).

Walter B

November 13, 2011 7:40 AM

I hope they take some of this FREE TIME, to ponder the vast fortunes pocketed by the WAR PROFITEERS. As they sit broke and futureless, after bravely fighting for the enrichment of those who provided (often faulty) war material. Iraq and Afghanistan, LIKE Viet Nam, had NOTHING to do with protecting America.
P.S. NOW we know why Janet Napolitano has declared Veterans "possible terror threats" ...... THEY are afraid the Vets will WAKE UP and come after THEM.

jane

November 13, 2011 10:16 AM

YES, the illegals ARE taking jobs that America's working class need and want!! Wake up! It has happened in my own family and to many of my friends. What used to be decent paying jobs in construction and home repair, are now $8 a hour and very scarce. The illegals have taken many service jobs too. There are not enough jobs in America anymore for everyone. That is a fact, not hate.

Alexandre C Andreani

November 13, 2011 10:56 AM

This is the proof and demonstration that the world does not need war.

SGT RICHARD SPENCER

November 14, 2011 9:01 PM

I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE TERM "ILLEGAL" !!!! HOW DO YOU THINK YOUR FAMILY GOT HERE AND YOUR ANCESTORS? THIS IS THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THOSE WHO WANT TO BE FREE COME HERE BECAUSE ITS A BETTER WAY OF LIFE FOR THE MOST PART. JOBS ARE HARD TO FIND THESE DAYS BUT SKILLS CAN BE ACCUIRED AT ANYTIME. IT ONLY TAKES DETERMINATION AND WILL TO GET UP AND FIGHT YOUR SELF TO BE SOMETHING BETTER. USE THE CHANNELS YOU HAVE AROUND YOU TO MAKE LIFE AS YOU NEED IT TO BE. THE VA HELPS OUT A LOT AND FRIENDS AND FAMILY PLAY A MAJOR ROLL. IF YOU CANT FIND A JOB THEN RELOCATE WHERE YOU CAN. IN THE MILITARY WE HAVE A HUGE NETWORK OF LOYAL FRIEND/FAMILY AND WE NEVER PASS UP A CHANCE TO HELP OUT A FELLOW SOLDIER/VET. I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE HOMELESS WITH NO JOB AS A COLLEGE GRAD AND A 11YR VET. BUT I AM PUSHING MYSELF TO CHANGE THAT. IM 29YRS OLD AND I KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO GET BACK ON MY FEET. I KNOW WHAT I HAVE TO DO. I AM A DISABLED VET WITH NARCOLEPSY/CATAPLEXY/INSOMNIA SO I HAVE FAULTS BUT I WONT LET IT TAKE OVER MY LIFE. SOLDIERS DONT QUIT!!! AND I WONT! IF I HAVE TO RENT A SHITTY ROOM AND WORK FOR LOW WAGES THEN SO BE IT BUT AT LEAST ITS BETTER THAN DOING NOTHING AND BEING DEPRESSED ABOUT HOW OUR GOV TREATS US. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF SO STAND UP, MAKE IT A MISSION TO SUCCEED AND COMPLETE THAT MISSION!!!! DUTY FIRST! AND YOUR DUTY IS YOUR LIFE!

old

November 15, 2011 12:04 AM

I am now an "old" man" who has stumbled onto this blog. Over the years it has been my experience that military veterans are superb private sector employees, and managers. I own a mid-sized, traditional , manufacturing company struggling to survive in the middle of America. We gladly take back returning reserves to their former positions - with seniority. We have not hired ANYONE new during the current regime - not because we don't respect those in need of work - but because the work is not there to offer in the current anti-business climate. Just this week our government "delayed" the Canadian pipeline which would have produced over 1 million new jobs. In this environment with previously "laid off" workers having priority it is difficult for those newly entering the job market to compete. I am a Vietnam era veteran - Marine - and there were preferences offered, in spite of the less than gracious reception our service received. Preferences don't matter when the system is discouraging all employment - except perhaps government employment.

Ted Daywalt

November 15, 2011 11:09 AM

If one really digs into the 18 to 24 year old veteran issue, they will find the majority of those are unemployed because they are in the National Guard and Reserve (NG&R). The NG&R have been called up so frequently that employers do not want to hire someone who will be taken away for 12 to 24 months. See http://vetjobs.com/media/2011/09/13/5419/ for documentation!

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November 24, 2011 2:06 PM

$200 Million in Career and Employment Planning Available to Soldiers and Veterans at NO COST

(Milwaukee, Wisconsin) Veterans nationwide will be able to access JOBThoughts®, a computerized career assessment and employment planning package, being provided at NO COST by BestWork DATA®. As Chuck Russell, President of BestWork DATA® said, “This is the least we can do for our veterans.” The assessment and planning tool, JOBThoughts, Russell created is being offered at NO COST on computer and can be taken in the comfort of the veterans home, while recouping from deployment or during the reintegration process. The veteran receives 11 reports – six Career Reports and five Employee Reports, approximately 30 – 40 pages of useful and useable information.

Dr. Richard White, Chief Operating Officer of BestWork DATA said, “This is what we should be doing for our veterans. This act is more than showing our gratitude for the service these men and women have given to our country, this act is an opportunity to return to peace and the competitive

world of work.”


Jeffrey Percival, President of Percival Enterprises, not only echoes White’s comments, but adds, “JOBThoughts® is one of the only assessments that provides both career and employment information in understandable and positive terms. Moreover, the veteran will be able to use the information immediately!”

“Finally, an opportunity for veterans to get the most up to date career and employment planning information at NO COST and NO STRINGS. Moreover, JobThoughts® is available on the computer, allowing servicemen and women and veterans to access the assessment and the reports anywhere, anytime.”, said Jim Mayr, President of the Wisconsin Veterans Foundation, Inc.

The team providing the service, BestWork DATA™, Percival Enterprises and the Wisconsin Veterans Foundation, Inc. will be working with veterans’ organizations, veteran service officers, allied veterans groups, Workforce Development Centers, Vet Centers, career counselors, vocational technical colleges, colleges and universities and elected officials throughout the country to ensure the delivery and success of this incredible opportunity.

The Wisconsin Veterans Foundation, Inc. has been selected as the Foundation to coordinate the delivery of JOBThoughts to every veteran. To ensure the fastest delivery of this tool to the widest possible number of veterans, the veterans' organization needs to contact the Foundation. In turn the foundation will provide the domain name, username and password for the organization. The veteran after signing in will receive a confidential username and password.


Jim Mullarkey, Secretary of the Wisconsin Veterans Foundation, Inc. said, “This is the most extraordinary gesture any private company has made to veterans from the Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq and Afghanistan. We salute BestWork Data and their gift.” Contact the Foundation today, at project@wivf.org.

#####
James E. Mullarkey, Secretary
Wisconsin Veterans Foundation, Inc.

P.O. Box 1917

Waukesha, Wisconsin 53187

www.wisconsinveteransfoundation.org

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The military screws you up mentally, takes you away from all things civilian life has to offer, and then years later expect you to be normal again?? it doesnt happen.

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eagle eye

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Hmmm, very interesting posts, but all have completely missed the point. The truth.....Most Veterens understand perfectly how their skill translate into the civilian job sector(I will submit that a small % of vets are not employable). The problem is that most/if not all HR reps simply do not! And that includes the federal/public sector. (not to mention most use software now, but that an entirely different discussion). Even when it is perfectly translated on the resume, most HR reps are baffled. But the truth lies more with this....civilians don't wont their 9-5 plush office environment to be invaded by a group of people that take their work very seriously! This is the main problem. Civilians for the most part what to be able to kick back and do as little as possible all while collecting a check every two weeks. And they sure as hell don't wont to be called out for sub-par performances! In general this is what is wrong with our entire country and the state of our economy. I could go on, but I choose not to.

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