The End Of Utopia In Zuccotti Park

Posted by: Mark Gimein on November 15, 2011 at 10:37 AM

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Early this morning, the police moved in to clear Zuccotti Park. Whether this was the last day for tent city is still being argued in court. Mike Bloomberg, the city’s mayor (and majority owner of Bloomberg LP, the publisher of this site) characterized the eviction as temporary, but clearly the city’s hope is that this will mark the end of the park occupation.

The images and video now coming out from the pre-dawn raid are troubling, and how the police handled it will be debated. If this is the end, it’s not the slow fade the city government (for whom the park has become an embarrassment) must have wished for. But it also does not follow the symbolic plot points—a 60 day anniversary, a blockade of the New York Stock Exchange—of the protest script.

I was at Zuccotti Park on Sunday evening, at the nightly General Assembly. Contrary to the barrage of reports on Fox News, it was far from the Hooverville that many imagine. It was substantially cleaner and better organized than it had been earlier in the occupation.

What was clear, however, was that the movement was being pulled in very different directions from within. What had started as a protest focused on disparities of wealth was morphing into a more general protest against the capitalist system. The occupation had always had a moral focus. As one sign posted at Zuccotti Park put it:

Occupy Wall Street isn’t just a jobs issue or a bank issue or a healthcare issue or even an immigration issue. It is a spiritual issue about what happened to the United States.

By Sunday what was at stake for the occupiers was not merely what happened to the United States. It was what happened to humanity. For a significant fraction of the occupiers, it had taken on the tenor of a revival movement, and was about not only transforming the economy but transforming people.

For many of those in the park, the protest against what those in the movement call the power of the one percent was turning into a broader utopian mission. The divide between utopians, who made up a significant fraction of those living in the park, and pragmatists both inside and outside was widening. As a man named Lorenzo put it at the General Assembly:

I have seen this coming for a while, occupier versus non-occupier. Now we are fractured because we do not know how to value things.

Some of the protesters planned to block the entrances to the stock exchange on Nov. 17, the two month anniversary of the occupation. It’s conceivable things could have come to a dramatic end then.

It’s equally easy, though, to imagine the Zuccotti Park occupation continuing for a long time, and slowly losing the original energy and focus. Eventually the pragmatists would likely drift away, leaving a utopian core. And utopian movements have no natural concluding point.

The goals of what has become known as the Occupy Wall Street movement and the occupation itself were evolving in different ways. The first and bigger group is essentially pragmatic, the second was becoming increasingly utopian. For the utopian element, the occupation of Zuccotti Park was a grand symbolic cause that could continue forever. For the pragmatists in the broader Occupy movement, this may well be an opportune time for it to end.

(Updated 1:00 PM)

Photographer: Craig Ruttle/AP

Reader Comments

JosephB39

November 15, 2011 12:52 PM

"I have seen this coming for a while, occupier versus non-occupier. Now we are fractured because we do not know how to value things."

This was always the natural conclusion. You can't have a movement without some defined end. You have to stand for something besides 'we want people to be less greedy'. Everyone will agree, and then everyone, including OWS, will look to their neighbor, and not to themselves.

It seems, ultimately, that the OWS people did not want to have a defined goal for fear of excluding people.

FWIW, it was still a good showing by a bunch of well-behaved idealists. Even if I disagreed, I appreciated their efforts and how they conducted themselves. That by itself should improve the world.

scallywag

November 15, 2011 1:08 PM

Mayor Bloomberg is insulting us all when he reduces what the protesters are doing down to an issue about a public park being open to play ball and walk dogs. This is about how 1% of society is bleeding the other 99% dry. Bloomberg’s personal fortune is nearly 20 billion dollars. Why should he care about you being able to pay the bills or having a job to go to? The powers that be want to characterise these protesters as scruffy anarchists hell bent on destroying capitalism. But this is far from what it is really about. It’s time we all get off our backsides and say enough is enough. Capitalism does not have to be about a society where 99% of people have to scrimp by, so that 1% can live super wealthy lifestyles.

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2011/11/nyc-conducts-orchestrated-raid-on-occupy-wall-street-zuccotti-park-protesters-dirty-tactics-in-desperate-times/

libertyville

November 15, 2011 1:14 PM

The Occupy Zuccotti Park movement has turned out to be underwhelming. Some union members, some partisan workers, some students and some street people, but no middleclass regular working stiffs. That's not the way to build support.

Yakman

November 15, 2011 1:28 PM

Finally, time to take out the trash

Ben

November 15, 2011 1:36 PM

Interesting point, Joseph.

The occupiers had no Exit Strategy.

JustMe

November 15, 2011 1:51 PM

I agree with the fact that the movement was disorganized. I guess that's somewhat expected when it really is Grass Roots, unlike the Tea Party movement which got its financing from billionaires like the Koch brothers, its public face from politicians like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann, and it's advertising from FOX News.

And that is what's most disheartening about the whole situation. As much as I disagreed with a lot of the conclusions and prescriptions coming out of OWS, I think they did hit a cord on certain notes, but I think this is hidden by media coverage and the reality of financing. The reality in our country right now is that as much as you hear about the "liberal media" from the media day in and day out, a few large companies control the dialogue (monologue?).

As much as I like and respect Bloomberg [Corp], it is a little scary when that is one of the least biased source for news regarding the Bloomberg [man]/OWS storyline.

Leanne

November 15, 2011 1:52 PM

The occupiers have no focus, no direction, which is why they're such spectacular failures at life to begin with. The kids their age who were able to adjust to the current economic situation are working hard, are focusing on building a future _in spite_ of the difficulties. The occupiers can't seem to handle any adversity at all. That's not going to serve them well in the long run.

They speak of "spirituality" and "humanity", yet they are the most Godless bunch of young people I've ever seen. They have no morals -- STDs are spiking at OWS camps across the country, they think so little of the safety and welfare of the individual they are attempting to cover up sexual abuse (sound familiar...?), and they are leaving piles of filth and trash for other people to clean up.

They're selfish, spoiled brats who don't have the wherewithall to make something of themselves. That's sad. That's forever. Their lack of character will follow them wherever they go.

cent

November 15, 2011 1:54 PM

hahaha... some of you are speaking of OWS in the past-tense. Keep dreaming. If anything, this mistake by Bloomberg will cause the movement to spread.

cent

November 15, 2011 1:54 PM

hahaha... some of you are speaking of OWS in the past-tense. Keep dreaming. If anything, this mistake by Bloomberg will cause the movement to spread.

JustMe

November 15, 2011 2:04 PM

Response to Libertyville:

I agree but for different reasons, and think it's worrisome. Many middle-class working stiffs, (like myself - although upper MC), do support much of what OWS is feeling, but also feel too much skin in the game, and frankly too much fear of putting our name on this, to stand up and say anything.

To illustrate: I work on WS, and make money personally from the rise and fall of stocks. I think the debt/deficit is a problem, and think the solution involves both reigning in spending and bringing tax rates back to a more progressive mix like they were pre-Bush. I don't personally think the rich, [including me], should pay MORE, but I don't think we should pay less either. The reality is the tax system is only progressive up to about the $10 million dollar point or so, and then it starts to level out, and than it becomes regressive.

I would never say this in public though, because the conventional wisdom of those in my network and those just above me is that lower taxes for the rich is good, simply because we as a group get to take home more money. If I spoke up about this, I think it would affect my own financial prospects, so I keep quiet and go along.

Gina

November 15, 2011 2:04 PM

The right to peaceful assembly and right to free speech doesn't give them squater's right. The movement lost focus and support when they decided that tent cities were more important than the message they were trying to send. Come back. Assemble peacefully without erecting tents, and go home at night so you don't become a nuisance to small business and neighbors alike. Enough is enough. They need to go home, but they won't because of arrogance.

Joe

November 15, 2011 2:06 PM

There will be a New World Order in place during the seven year tribulation period which will be led by a leader referred to in the scriptures as the Antichrist, Revelation 13 and 18. In Daniel 11:38 the ancient prophet revealed that this Antichrist will be a military genius who worships the god of forces. This New World Order, a one-world, governmental, economic, political system will be headquartered in the Middle East, Revelation 18:1-3, and will rule all of humankind, even the buying and selling of essential items needed for life.

jordan

November 15, 2011 2:18 PM

Hey Businessweek, thanks for eavesdropping on a GA and latching on to one point of discussion that you use as a lever to decree in broadstrokes what you want to see in a movement that is not yours, you propagandists.

And thanks joseph for being totally taken in by it and feeling like a smart big boy agreeing with Businessweek.

For the pragmatists it is an opportune time for it to an end? WHY DON'T YOU ASK A SO-CALLED PRAGAMATIST ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF PRINTING WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO SAY? THE WORD OCCUPY IS IN THE NAME OF THE MOVEMENT, YOU THINK THE OCCUPIERS WILL BE HAPPY ABOUT THE POLICE CLEARING OUT THE CAMP WITH BRUTE FORCE?

use brain

David

November 15, 2011 2:18 PM

"99% scrimp by"?!? Hah. If the protestors weren't so occupied by making signs and complaining about "greedy capitalists" they could do their own research about the so-called "99%." While there are certainly some legitimately poor people in the US, you can rest assured that the vast majority of the 99% are doing quite well. All of the cars, cell phones, trips, movies, sporting events, iPads, clothes, food and other consumer purchases (and luxuries) made in this country are certainly not concentrated on 1% of "fat cats." The average American lives like a king compared to the average global citizen. Period. End of debate. There is a reason the standard of living in the US has outperformed so many countries for so many years, without exception: it's called American Capitalism. If you think mindless socialistic giveaways by the nanny state are the answer, go have a chat with the Greeks. As Maggie Thatcher used to say, "the problem with socialism is that you ultimately run out of other people's money."

"99% scrimp by"?!? Hah.

alund

November 15, 2011 2:19 PM

I don't think we would all agree with the idea that the movement started from practical concerns and headed towards a utopian vision. And the implication made that a moral standpoint is utopian is disheartening, if not necessarily true. If we remember that OWS was preceded by Tunis, Egypt, other countries in the middle east, Spain, Greece, and I believe several other European countries, and think about the connections - some real connections - that have existed between the protests in different places - we will be looking at a larger picture, which suggests that while people in different places have specific situations and some pragmatic demands - the outrage with Berlusconi in Italy, the specifics of the Greek situation, or what have you. Yet the similarities are many more, and caused by a common "source of evil", which effects not only our economic well-being but our sense of who we are and where we live. The clashes with the eforcement bodies that are taking place all over the world only make this clearer. What you are describing as utopian attitudes is actually where things - where the people who are protesting - started from. And I would not call it utopian, I would call it lucid and awake to the reality of where and how we live, and who we live with - or under. This has come as a shock for many people in the western world, who have been managing to live in... not utopia, but oblivion, for a very long time. Now we are all getting to the same page.

Dr Dave

November 15, 2011 2:32 PM

When the real unemployed poor up in the Bronx can't afford
food then there'll be a real revolution & possibly an actual "occupation" of Manhattan. They'll roll right over these middle class kid rebels-without-a-cause and take what's theirs. Until then, this is a purely fake 'revolution" started by an old Hippie up in Vancouver who runs a site called Adbusters. He's laughing his butt off as we speak.
Reality: These kids never lived through the riots of the 60s/70s or the burning & looting from the blackout of 77. All they have is romanticized MTV filmclips of that era rolling in their heads but know nothing of the harsh realities we lived through.
A riot is a failed revolution. We haven't even seen a riot yet. When the cost of food skyrockets hold onto your seat belts kids. You'll be back home in Wisconsin with mom & dad before you know it. Until then the free Zucotti Park rent deal is over and mom & dad's credit cards are maxed out. Go West angry young white men. NYC is way too expensive a place to migrate to without having lined up a job first.

Dr Langhorne

November 15, 2011 2:32 PM

When the real unemployed poor up in the Bronx can't afford
food then there'll be a real revolution & possibly an actual "occupation" of Manhattan. They'll roll right over these middle class kid rebels-without-a-cause and take what's theirs. Until then, this is a purely fake 'revolution" started by an old Hippie up in Vancouver who runs a site called Adbusters. He's laughing his butt off as we speak.
Reality: These kids never lived through the riots of the 60s/70s or the burning & looting from the blackout of 77. All they have is romanticized MTV filmclips of that era rolling in their heads but know nothing of the harsh realities we lived through.
A riot is a failed revolution. We haven't even seen a riot yet. When the cost of food skyrockets hold onto your seat belts kids. You'll be back home in Wisconsin with mom & dad before you know it. Until then the free Zucotti Park rent deal is over and mom & dad's credit cards are maxed out. Go West angry young white men. NYC is way too expensive a place to migrate to without having lined up a job first.

JustMe

November 15, 2011 2:48 PM

Response to Leanne:

You should be reporting for FOX News!

I agree the OWS often seems to lack a focus, but part of that is because their movement doesn't have leadership like the Tea Party, it is more Grass Root and therefore diverse in it's makeup.

But...your comment isn't really focused on their declaration/perception that the "1%" is getting ahead while the rest is being left behind. You instead resort to character assassination rather than debating the argument. These "kids" you judge to be "spectacular failures at life". They "can't handle adversity"...are a "Godless bunch of young people"...with "no morals". These are talking points used to attack the arguers rather than the argument. Where do you even come up with claims like "STDs are spiking". And not to belittle the one reported rape case thus far, I think any sexual assault is real, but this is an isolated criminal case, you cannot sum up a whole group of people based on the actions of a few individuals taking advantage of a situation.

Dennis

November 15, 2011 2:52 PM

OWS wants open borders to immigration and an end to economic stratification.
They don't know if they're coming or going.

Just me

November 15, 2011 2:54 PM

I agree with Leann.
The OWS people need to go to work and contribute to society instead of complaining about people that have made a good living in our wonderful country. MOVE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, STOP CRYING! AND TAKE A BATH!!

J Ruse

November 15, 2011 3:00 PM

I am looking forward to round two of the occupation. The first one was hilarious. I'd worry about their safety, but apparently few of them give a damn... stupidity has a club name now: Occupy Wall Street. When's next season start?

James

November 15, 2011 3:06 PM

@scallywag

What about the 17% that is bleeding the rest of america dry?

you know those people that are on food stamps and get medicaid.

what about the 0% that isn't even a part of this country but gets to go to school here because you don have to show citizenship ever since "no child left behind"

Unbelieveable

November 15, 2011 3:10 PM

To "JustMe" wah wah wah, always Fox News fault. What a lemming

J Ruse

November 15, 2011 3:10 PM

JustMe: "unlike the Tea Party movement which got its financing from billionaires like the Koch brothers, its public face from politicians like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann, and it's advertising from FOX News."

Ha ha ha ha haaaa! You are part of the problem. Thanks for self-identifying.

Anything to protect the numb-skulled Occupy "pure democracy" farce of absurdity, by attacking the rational, sincere and reasonably angry citizens who were latched upon by the like of the Koch brothers and Dick Armey. That's the Tea Party, by the way. The one you'll forever be lying about to make yourself feel empowered. Whose members you seem to despise, while they've done nothing but show they are bothered by the massive government that your type, I can assume, believes is the solution of everything.

It is not the status quo loving, useful idiot-adoring leftist media version of it, but the one that actually persists, to your irrational disgust and spitefulness. The one that Palin "leads" and, beg your pardon, virtually all media outlets disparaged and spoke about with off-color and lying words ever since it first existed. It sucks to be marginalized as an activist by the activists who you thought were the "machine," isn't it?

JustMe

November 15, 2011 3:18 PM

Response to David:

They certainly got it wrong with the 99% number, but you got it wrong too. Before we go on, great by the way that you want to compare the way the average American lives to the global average! We should all be so happy Americans don't live on less than $2 a day like people in Sub-Saharan Africa or rural India and China. "Period. End of debate." Huh? That's your base comparison?

How's about looking at some of those figures a little deeper though. The top 1% owns about 40% of all financial assets. The top 2% owns about 60%, and the top 10% (my group -somewhere towards the top end) owns about 70%. The bottom 40%, owns less than 1%! This is what you meant by "not concentrated", I presume.

You state: "There is a reason the standard of living in the US has outperformed so many countries for so many years, without exception: it's called American Capitalism." By this some may think you're referring to a debt fueled capitalism that the last few years has started to show is neither sustainable or real. One might also notice by comparison that some of the assets the top own, (myself included), are based on bad debt to all these bad borrowers at the bottom.

Clearly giveaways by a so called socialist nanny state aren't good if they ruin a state's finances. But what about giveaways at the top side and to corporations. Why is the effective tax rate on the very top 17% when the people making just a few $100K to a couple of million paying double that? Why did the government give trillions to banks to get through the tough times? Were those mindless corporate socialist giveaways?

The reality is America has long been a Capitalist/Socialist hybrid by your definition. Unless you plan on totally getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, Public Parks, the Highway System, Libraries, Public Education, etc etc, that will always be the case. Capitalism is a means of production by private means. This does not touch on the tax system, and the existence of what and the public goods paid for by one do not in any way invalidate capitalism. So let's stop the BS.

Chuck Gaffney

November 15, 2011 3:25 PM

Bloomburg and the NYPD are absolutely pitiful. I usually go on a rant that has gotten me on the front page here and even at the BW building, so here's another one...I think I speak for most of the people who see what is going on and long gone is the "hero" status of the NYPD from 9/11 and gone was any thread of respect I used to have for the mayor. Pathetic swine all of them. So glad I'm taking my company out of New York soon. Long Island, the city, and the whole state can rot in hell, be bombed, I don't care what after I leave. As a youth here, so disgusted with the worthlessness of this part of the country, it's inflated pricing yet no worth in the increased costs and it's general stress-inducing politics. I don't care what side you are on, the youth of this state in general have been screwed over and this stupid useless state is nothing but a Police State that has stolen the rights of the people. Mafia police unions, pitiful tools of authority, delusional grandeur of a cut-and-paste boring New England area is all New York has become. I'm a business owner who is FOR OWS but for them or not, New York is getting so bad and the youth are leaving in droves thus why there are now two less voting districts. I can't wait until I too let this state and it's pompous officials rot in their self-made thrones.

Daniel

November 15, 2011 3:27 PM

I disagree that fox was stretching the truth. I was in NY because of the marathon and that place was disgusting. It needed to be shut down.

The Dude

November 15, 2011 3:43 PM

While I agree with OWS that the banks run the government at a handsome profit, it's hard to side with hipsters and neckbeards on anything. Nobody told you to borrow $100,000 to get a liberal arts degree worth $0 in the job market. Nobody told you to move to Manhattan. Nobody told you to deface yourself to the point that you're unemployable. Zuccotti was cleared and hosed down, and nothing of value was lost.

Brendan

November 15, 2011 3:47 PM

There are way too many abstract concepts being espoused by OWS for them to be taken seriously. Transforming people, spirituality, humanity.... Come on, now. That's what the Dalai Lama is for. Tighten up your act and set some goals and you'll be taken more seriously. Otherwise you are just New Age loiterers.

JustMe

November 15, 2011 3:49 PM

To J Ruse:

I doubt I'm part of the problem since I have a six-figure tax bill every year.

But to answer to your assumptions, no, I don't believe massive government is the solution to everything. Nor do I believe though that even more tax cuts for the top brackets make sense right now while we have big deficits and growing debt, (even though it would mean more take home pay for me).

Miami Way

November 15, 2011 3:51 PM

This is the same kind of COMMUNIST scum that forced my family to flee Cuba!!!

The COMMUNIST filth fulminates against the so called 1% - yet who do they think PAYS THE BILLS around here???

The COMMUNIST dregs must be dealt with using an iron fist!!!

Ryan

November 15, 2011 4:06 PM

It's all a fix centered within the Fed, that should have been the focus. Eliminate lobbying, the Fed and go back to a gold standard and all your problems are solved worldwide. Not hard to figure out folks.

Believable

November 15, 2011 4:10 PM

@Unbelieveable & JustMe

Wah wah wah, you're all lemmings. Lemmings for the Left and Lemmings for the Right.

What's really bad though is bad spelling. Unbelievable doesn't have an extra 'e' before 'able'. This is the real reason why the country is going to the dogs.

FOX News

November 15, 2011 4:18 PM

FOX News is an opinion channel, not a news channel, deal with it. We'd love to actually be 'fair and balanced', but that's not the formula that made FOX #1, so I don't know what to tell you.

You can go on thinking what seems logical to you: that since Rupert is a big righty and doesn't like paying taxes, that's the agenda we take. (You could extrapolate that to the Redstone owned CBS, Roberts/Comcast controlled NBC, and Disney owned ABC, but...). The truth is much simpler, we give the watchers what they tune in too. We're not news stations, we're parrots, just saying what the watchers already believe and want to hear to validate themselves.

John W.

November 15, 2011 4:21 PM

My problem with this movement is that it has placed a unnecessary emphasis on Wall Street as taking advantage of them. Yes inequality has risen over the past 30 years, but the 1% is not just Wall Street. Movie Stars, Doctors, Lawyers, Sports Star's, and individuals in Internet Technology have all seen exorbitant gains. It has not been because the "took advantage" of anyone, but because they have capitalized on innovation.
If the "99%" feel left behind then they should not ask who is taking advantage of them, but ask why this has happened. The STEM graduates in the US lower are than they were 30 years ago and one of the lowest in the developed countries. Conversely, Fine Arts graduates have doubled. With decreasing high skilled labor, well, there's a reason some are being left behind.

Believable

November 15, 2011 4:23 PM

@Miami Way

That's right, there's only Communist Cuba on the one side and pure Capitalist America on the other. No other middle ground. Read a book, the US has never practiced a "pure" form of capitalism. Just because people don't want cronyism doesn't mean they want communism. Stop being a parrot. (Or a lemming - credit given to 'Unbelieveable' for the use).

Chuck Gaffney

November 15, 2011 4:37 PM

Just clarifying my rant from before, before the pitchforks come at me; I don't want NY bombed again...lost 600 people in my area during 9/11, some family of my classmates... but I, like many who live here, have had it with the politics, costs and Police State that is New York and want to go elsewhere and not look back. We simply want to forget NY even exists because it's become so delusional to think there's any worth being here for the average person. Hell, even celebrities who have homes in the Hamptons (despite what the non-rich residents believe) don't even bother being here for more than a few months in the year before they go live in their real homes in California or elsewhere.

I hated the Tea-Party when they had their rallies here on the island or the even more pathetic Westboro Baptist Church. Yet, they have al the right to protests their crazy beliefs. What we've seen with the OWS moment (yes there are definitely some hippy's and people who probably even I wouldn't hire) is that if you question the fear-driving Authority of the NYPD, the Bloomburg admin , the typical scared-white-people news organizations...their rights to assemble are then abused by the authority here. This police state has to stop, it's a virus that people in power are really showing exists the way they handle these peaceful protests.

Brendan

November 15, 2011 4:45 PM

It is amusing that after they were booted from the park they hired 1%-ers to represent them in court.

shoebox

November 15, 2011 4:49 PM

I didn't see utopians. I saw people so comfortable being victims. It was really sad. We used to celebrate success stories like Bloomberg, because he was just like many of us. MIddle class upbringing, child or grandchild of immigrants. My folks came with less than $1,000, worked hard, educated themselves. Never were victims. Sorry sight in zucotti park. A real dead end

JustMe

November 15, 2011 4:55 PM

To John W.

I agree with you and don't agree with you. If you work hard and capitalize on innovation, you should be rewarded for it, (I have and have been!). So I've no problem with Movie Stars, Doctors, Lawyers, Athletes, Inventors and Entrepreneurs making more, and in many cases lots more, for hard work and innovation.

Two things though:
1. A lot of the inequality actually stems from the tax code. Massive wealth is being accumulated at the top b/c wealth comes from Capital Gains the rates being paid on this income is significantly lower than what doctors and lawyers are paying on their take home pay. The Great Conservative President Ronald Reagan tried to make all income taxed equally at 28% in his Tax Reform Act of 1986. HE'D be labeled as downright liberal by today's standard for doing this.
2. Some people did profit from "taking advantage" of others and by gaming the system. Wall Street had the rules rewritten so they could take bigger risks and as a result get bigger bonuses. It was a giant F*ing game of musical chairs, just get your bonus before the reckoning. The market wanted the financial system to collapse the weekend AIG happened. Here I'd also agree with you and say it wasn't just WS though. A lot of other players like mortgage and real estate brokers were riding high on the way up and also hold some responsibility for the whole thing. Lots of people just shut their eyes and decided to just "get their share" too.

fear

November 15, 2011 5:09 PM

good to know that the peoples right to assembly was upheld by a federal judge.Likewise good to know that mayor bloomberg is above such restraints like the constitution and the courts.

fear

November 15, 2011 5:12 PM

good to know that the peoples right to assembly was upheld by a federal judge.Likewise good to know that mayor bloomberg is above such restraints like the constitution and the courts.

JustMe

November 15, 2011 5:18 PM

To my last comment just wanted to add one thing on "tax fairness".

Dan Duncan.

Died in 2010 worth about $9 billion. Hadn't paid taxes on that fortune b/c it was unrealized Capital Gains. That's one advantage "available" to everyone but largely "enjoyed" by the top: letting your money grow tax deferred. CFP's like this! Of course, how much did his family get "cheated" from when he died? 0! That's right, zero! Picked a good year to die.

Wonder if his wife and kids called George Bush and said "Thanks for the extra $4.5 billion dollars!"

Still want to tell me some people don't have an unfair advantage? I'm not talking about socialism...I'm talking about Ronald Reagan Conservative Capitalism. Where'd it go?

Citizen

November 15, 2011 5:54 PM

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Brandt Hardin

November 15, 2011 8:13 PM

The actions today by New York official violated nearly every freedom our Founding Fathers entrusted Americans with. This is a shameful and sad day for our country. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly are being denied to these protesters. Freedom of Press was even muffled in the early hours of the morning as no reporters or even lawyers for the movement were allowed near the raids. Despite all of this and the abuse endured from Fascist Police Forces country wide, the movement continues even this evening in NYC. Stand tall and voice your opinions with the Occupy group. You can learn more, see political art and get informed at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet.html

Janey

November 15, 2011 8:19 PM

@Leanne
Preach. OWS - Welcome to life.

Andrew North

November 15, 2011 11:28 PM

Belligerent twits nurturing swollen egos fed on meaningless self-importance engaged in a theatrical display of faux martyrdom. Such obnoxious children, these ignorant pawns furthering a crudely articulated scheme well beyond their conceptual grasp; pathetic.

ALEXWUQI

November 16, 2011 4:08 AM

Why don't you talk with the bankers or the US government? Only shouting "we are the 99%" is not enough though.

Fay

November 16, 2011 6:52 AM

Investigative journalist Aaron Klein has shed a lot of light on the organizations and money behind Occupy Wall Street.

Go to Klein Online at http://kleinonline.wnd.com/ to see extensive coverage of who is behind the Occupy movement and what their real agenda is.

john dahodi

November 17, 2011 4:22 PM

The best way out for the occupy wall street protesters is to organize the movement using following steps: (i)Should have central organization with at least 20 office bearers of good standing and clean honest career including President Carter, George Sorros, Buffet and so on; (ii) Divide the groups based on their grievances like homeless, mortgage foreclosures, unemployed, medical issues, graduates unemployed, unemployed... due to outsource, large bank greediness, stock market greediness, political corruption, lobbies terrors, capitalists greediness; millionaires greediness and so many others (iii) each specified group should be directed to join hands together and stage demonstration during the working hours at location of their head offices through out America on daily basis. The protesters can meet at the central place but divide in groups to demonstrate at different locations peacefully keeping good manner and following rules and regulation using non-violence means distributing and shouting meaningful slogans and hand over write-up to the media, press and who ever is visiting these buildings. Unless the movement is planed and projected in a organized way, nothing will happen. The 1% interested party is waiting for the early demise of the movement. They think it is almost at the last stage and burial is closer than they thought.

Kenn Space

November 17, 2011 6:07 PM

President Obama said; "Failure is not an option". I agree with him except he failed to complete that sentence, I say; Failure is not an option, failure is a given".

Capitalize On This Occupation

Too big to fail;

Is failing.

Too big to fail;

Is not success.

Too big to fail;

is a failure literalized.


http://open.salon.com/topics/occupy%20america/most_recent/all/page/3

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About

"The Wealth Debate" is a running discussion of wealth, poverty, the economy and income inequality in the U.S. and the world. It was started shortly after the Occupy Wall Street movement sparked a global protest about the fallout from the financial crisis and money in politics. You can reach the editors, Dan Beucke and Mark Gimein, by email, or follow BloombergNow on Twitter to keep up with posts.

Analyses or commentary in this blog are the views of the author and or commentators, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloomberg News.

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