Roger, you've been with the Smeal School since 1990. What has happened since that time? What major changes have transpired -- as far as admissions requirements and the admissions process are concerned?

Well, because applicants have increased dramatically, from around 600 in 1994 to almost 1,400 last year, we've been fortunate enough to be able to be more selective about who we admit into the program. We've worked hard to develop an applicant profile and have begun to pay significant amount of attention to work experience as a selection criterion. I'd say that we were less concerned with applicants' experience four years ago.

We have also gone from a much more manual system to a piece of contact management software called Exeter Education Management System (EEMS) that allows us to manage the process much more efficiently. All applicant data is entered into our computer system, and there is a significant level of automation going on.

In addition, we've gone from a situation where we're not so concerned about conducting interviews with everyone. Instead of interviewing everyone, we're just interviewing those candidates we feel have a legitimate chance of acceptance into the program. We accomplish that, for the most part, through the resources we have in the admissions office. Alumni also help out.

The school's communications program as well as its strengths in logistics and business-to-business marketing are quite popular. Do you feel they are the chief reasons for applicants' interest in the Penn State MBA program?

I think they're a very significant element of our program. As you suggested, those are strengths of the program and are becoming an embedded part of the school's reputation as it becomes more widely known. There are other factors that draw applicants to us. One of the bigger ones is the reputation of the university as a whole -- Penn State is quite widely known.

As far as the B-school is concerned, do you feel the communications program stands out to prospective applicants?

That's a required part of the core, so everyone benefits from having to go through that. We've been at that a long time, and, in fact, this is our 20th year. We invest rather heavily in that area, and have six faculty members who deliver that course to a class of 145 students -- the other subjects in the core are typically taught by one instructor. Each class is divided into three sections of about 47 students apiece, and all students are required to go through the communications experience. We have recruiters who come back every year to tell us how impressed they are with our grads' communication skills. That really fills us with a sense of pride.

I think though, that our logistics, finance, and marketing concentrations are also well recognized. Business Logistics has a No. 1 reputation among our academic peers. I've actually seen a Michigan State University survey that positioned us as No. 1 by a wide margin....That translates into very active placement activity.

Besides the traditional two-year program, Smeal recently integrated a manufacturing option. Can you explain its orientation and what type of applicant it is appropriate for?

It's intended for someone interested in working in a manufacturing environment who might have a career goal as a plant manager or working in plant management. We have another opportunity, which is a one-year master's degree (it is also a popular concurrent degree) program called the Quality in Manufacturing Master's (QMM). Both of these options (the QMM and the manufacturing option) are delivered with a certain number of courses being taught by professors from the industrial engineering department of the College of Engineering.

The QMM, was started two years ago, while the manufacturing option was first offered around 1990, and has since evolved. We're emphasizing the QMM as a more current offering. About 8-10 students a year do both the MBA and QMM degree, and an additional 35 or so students are in it from the one-year program. We prefer that students interested in the QMM degree have a background in engineering, having at least done some undergraduate engineering course work.

Roger, you mentioned that Smeal's applications are up, way up. Have they been increasing every year? What is Smeal's official application total for its Class of '99?

Yes, it has been steadily increasing over the past five years. In 1994, we had 608 applications; 1995 brought us 899 applications; in 1996 we received 1,287; and last year (1997) we garnered 1,378. So far, for this year's cycle (1998), we're running about 8% ahead of this time a year ago.

Smeal has historically had a small class size. In the face of increasing applicant demand, is the school planning to maintain its intimacy?

When we implemented our new curriculum about four years ago, we actually decreased our class sizes to the 135-145 student range. In doing so, we went from a four-section delivery to a three-section delivery. Previously, having four sections required more than one instructor to deliver each core course, and we just weren't happy with that. So, with the new curriculum, we worked hard to lower the number of students in each class so that instructors could have more latitude and control over their courses. So, we actually reduced our class size further, from 160 to 140 a couple years back, and have no intention of increasing it in the near future.

Are the school's yield and acceptance rates shifting as a result of the Smeal's increasing application totals?

The yields have been relatively flat over the past five years, hovering in the 44%-48% range. Our offer of acceptances has, as I mentioned, become much lower, to around 24%. Last year for example, with 1,378 applications, we made 360 offers, and that's in line with what we've done for the past three years.

With the new curriculum now firmly in place, what "type" of applicant is now applying to the program? Which applicants best "fit" into today's Smeal culture?

We're seeing more applications from people who have more work experience. We're looking for people who have a minimum of two or more years of experience, people who have good communication skills. When you make an admission decision, you're also basically making a placement decision. We're considering what recruiters are going to think of each of our students two years down the road, and having at least that two years' worth of work experience makes a difference.

BW's 1996 B-school rankings project found that Smeal put far more emphasis on academic research than teaching. Is that stance shifting as the remodeled, integrative curriculum, created in 1993, further establishes itself?

First of all, I would say that we do not unanimously agree with BW's findings. Research is a very important part of this university's culture -- we receive the second-highest amount of private research funding (behind only MIT). I don't agree that we are out of balance.

Is the school emphasizing more one-on-one interaction between students and faculty, having reduced the class size by 20 students?

We are. Since we implemented the new curriculum, the culture has changed in terms of faculty involvement in the program. We now have meetings among faculty at least once a week where all faculty get together and work through an exercise which is designed to yield integration. Every instructor who is currently teaching a course will talk about what they've taught in the past week, what they're about to teach this week, and what they plan to teach next week. They share their material with everybody to achieve connection between the classes.

When we first started doing this, there was some interaction between the presenter and the other faculty, but now there is an incredible amount of interaction. Concepts are multidimensional, so we have to teach students to analyze problems from an integrative and multidimensional point of view. Having our faculty interact ensures that students are indeed given a well-rounded and in-depth education.

Applicants off to a late start may still qualify for admission into the Smeal program. What are this year's application deadlines?

That's right, May 1st is the published application deadline for this year. In the new brochure, which we start distributing next month, we'll actually be moving up that final deadline for the next admissions cycle by another month -- to Apr. 1 for domestic candidates, and Mar. 1 for internationals.

What is the deadline for scholarship?

There is a Feb. 1 deadline for a graduate school fellowship award. But typically, only 1-2 students are awarded that a year. It's extremely competitive. Beyond that, we don't make financial aid decisions until early April.

What's the turnaround for response?

We are able to provide decisions in anywhere from 2-5 weeks currently. There are always situations where you have a person on hold, wanting to see more of the pool. Occasionally that may stretch the decision out.

What are the different criteria assessed within the Smeal application packet?

There is the standard listing of bio information, the GMAT and TOEFL (Test Of English as a Foreign Language) scores, two recommendations, three required essays, transcripts from the undergraduate institution, and a resume. If you were to say the interview is required for admission, I would have to say yes, because we don't allow anybody in without it.

Is there any aspect of the application that you pay particular attention to?

Yes, I'd say we pay particular attention to the work experience and the GMAT score. We look at all of the different segments of the application, though. The undergrad GPA -- particularly the last two years -- are the first screens that we run the application through. If the individual is within the desired GMAT, GPA, and work experience ranges, then it's an easy decision. If, however, he or she is only in that desired range for two of those three elements, then we have to compare and contrast.

We look at everything only to ensure that there are no problems or surprises. After looking at a large number of applications, you find that recommendations do not provide much differentiation because the recommenders typically provide very favorable comments. However, you do glean a lot of unique insights from the essays. So we look at those closely.

Can you explain to me the process by which an application is reviewed and a decision is made? Is it done by a committee?

Yes, we do use a committee. I'm the first point of review, and there are some decisions that I will make that the committee has an easy concurrence with. However, there are others that we all discuss and agonize over.

How many people sit on the admissions committee?

Two others, a faculty member and an admissions staff person. Every file is reviewed by all three of us, no matter how good it is. I might present a stack of 10 files and say: "These are ones that I'm recommending against: The average GMAT is 520, there's no work experience, etc." If for example, international students have GMATs below 550, then the committee doesn't really need to review the file. But they will always look at all of the files presented to them.

Have you changed the way in which you evaluate the GMAT now that it has moved to the electronic format -- the CAT (Computer Adaptive Test)?

We really haven't developed any new process to analyze it in any different way. We've been assured by ETS (the Educational Testing Service, the centralized testing agency that oversees and administers the GMAT -- as well as SAT, AP, GRE, and TOEFL exams) that the scores coming from the CAT method are statistically equivalent to the pencil-and-paper method. A more important change has been the recent addition of the writing assessment (AWA -- the Analytical Writing Assessment), and that has provided additional information that helps us better understand the applicants' thought process and ability to think succinctly and write clearly.

Do you break the GMAT up into its individual parts when evaluating it?

Yes, we do. We're going to look first at the quant score to make sure that is acceptable. Primarily for international applicants, we need to look at the qualitative (verbal) score..... Many of them have high quant scores but are weak on the qualitative side and the AWA . If that's the case, then we'll explore why that is.

What is Smeal's GMAT average?

The GMAT average was 616 two years ago (1996) and 610 last year (1997). Early on right now -- for the offers I have outstanding so far this year -- the average GMAT score is 648, and I'm about two-thirds of the way through the admissions process.

What was the GMAT range for last year's attendees?

I would say it was about 530-790.

Let's talk about the interview. What compelled the school to make the interview such an integral part of its admissions process?

Several things. If students are going to succeed in the Smeal program, they have to do well in the communication aspect. Also in the past, without the interview, I think in all honesty, we have, on occasion, made an admission mistake. This most easily occurs when dealing with international applicants, where you haven't talked to them and they haven't visited the school -- all you have are their paper attributes.

On occasion, international students' English skills have been really inadequate -- which caused them to fail in the program. We feel now that it's our responsibility to ensure that that doesn't happen, both for their sake and ours. We also know that the program can be extremely stressful if you have to work twice as hard and long to read the assignment, and have extreme difficulty participating in a discussion-oriented, participative curriculum. So, communication skills are important for that reason as well. Also, as I mentioned, an admission decision is also a placement decision; we want to feel comfortable putting our students in front of our customers -- the recruiters.

You mentioned that you interview all admitted applicants.

Yes, that's right. This is the third year we have that policy in effect. Of the 320 offers we've typically made, prior to the interview policy, we probably conducted 60-80 interviews on a reactive basis. Now we're conducting about 450 interviews a year, and around 320 of them are done for those that we're going to make an offer to. We will make about 320 offers of admission, and every one of them will have an interview -- we won't make an offer of admission without one.

What advice do you have for applicants preparing for a Smeal interview?

I guess the classic response would be to consider it in the same way as you would for a job interview. Understand what your strengths are, and tell us about them. Understand what the company, or in this case, the program, does. Learn about our program. One of the things we try to address is what the applicant is looking to get out of the program and what kind of research he or she has done to see whether what they're looking for is available.

Are most of the interviews conducted on campus, via telephone, or through alumni?

The interview is done in a variety of ways. We encourage applicants to embark on a campus visit that allows them to have the interview, sit in on classes, go to lunch with students, meet with faculty, and really get a good idea of what Smeal is all about. We'd like everyone to do that, but obviously not everyone can. If visiting our campus is not an option, the next thing we'll do is conduct a telephone interview -- which we do for most of our international applicants. We also attend GMAC (Graduate Management Admissions Council) Forums, and have worked very hard to arrange interviews before, during, and after those forums.

How long do interviews tend to last?

About 30-45 minutes.

You intimated earlier that Smeal has its applicants complete three required essays. What do they entail?

There's a total of seven questions in the application; candidates have to answer both of the first two, and can choose two out of the next five. The first question asks you to describe the most difficult ethical dilemma you have faced in your professional life. How did you resolve that dilemma? Would you solve it differently today? If so, why?

The second required essay question asks you to describe your post-MBA short-, medium-, and long-term professional goals. How do you see the Smeal College MBA degree assisting you in attaining your goals?

Then, candidates can select two of the remaining five questions to respond to.

Are questions 3 to 7 shorter than the first two?

Not necessarily. They are elective questions, but not smaller in scope. We ask applicants not to exceed 300 words for any of their responses. Questions 3-7 really do help flesh out more of the individual.

You mentioned that the essays, in conjunction with the interview and AWA, give you a better idea of the applicants' communication skills. In what way?

They give us the opportunity to assess their ability to sell themselves. The interview will give us an idea of how well they think on their feet, for example. But all three of those elements confirm that they're articulate, that their thought processes are fairly well organized and logical. Within that ability to sell themselves, you assume that they are good communicators.

Smeal's average full-time work experience was just 2.8 years in 1996. I understand that it mushroomed to 4 years in 1997 -- in just one year! Is this a new prerequisite for entrance into the program?

Actually, the students in our Class of '99 have an average of 44 months of work experience. I wouldn't call it a prerequisite, but the increase in applications has allowed us to be more selective for that criteria, and clearly it's something that's important. If you have a class of students with a lot of experience, you tend to see much richer class discussion. Recruiters are expecting that that's one of the qualities that they find in our graduates. So, it's a combination of things, and it has mushroomed because we've been able to mushroom it by virtue of the volume of application we've been receiving.

How many applicants with little-to-no work experience were accepted into the program in 1997?

The percentage of our class entering in 1997 with more than two years of work experience was 78%, while the percentage with less than 12 months experience was 10%.

Did most of those folks with less than 12 months of experience tend to funnel in from Penn State's undergrad program?

We have an interesting challenge going on here in which we're offering a program in conjunction with the College of Science that awards a bachelor's in science and an MBA degree within five years. That program, I believe, is growing. We plan to admit 10-12 students a year into the MBA program from the accelerated degree program -- where students come in as freshmen in the university's BS program in the College of Science and then move into the MBA program during their fourth year. So, you have to take into account that the entire population of students coming into Smeal from the accelerated program have zero years of work experience. And having 10 students enter into Smeal from that program is equivalent to 7% of our class.

Otherwise, there may be the random one or two students who are accepted with little work experience to speak of. But the folks from the accelerated program comprise the bulk of our students without work experience. And I'd like to add that we patterned the accelerated MBA program after (the Penn State) Jefferson Medical School's accelerated degree concept.

Roger, you were once an MBA student yourself at the University of Minnesota. Though the process has changed quite a bit since your days as a B-school applicant, what advice can you impart to today's applicants about the best ways to apply to the Smeal School and B-schools in general?

I would say that you first need to make a decision about whether you plan to enter a full-time or part-time MBA program. You should find out as much as you can about the culture of the program because all programs have different cultures -- which can be measured by things such as cutthroat vs. friendly competition, teamwork vs. individual work, etc. That's very important for students to know before they apply. They need to understand that programs have different cultures and that it would behoove them to do the research necessary to find out which ones are the best match for them. Applying to B-school is essentially just like looking for a job: You need to understand as much as you can about the company as possible. What are the different ways I can add value to the company, or in our case, the classroom? When you apply to your MBA programs, make sure you sell your strengths.

Does the Smeal School use a waitlist?

Yes, we've always got a waitlist happening that ranges from 30-60 people throughout the year.

What is the success rate for getting off the waitlist and into the Smeal program?

Probably a quarter of them will get admitted off the waitlist.

Because of lobbying efforts?

No, not really. I would say that primarily what happens is that we put them on the waitlist until we're able to see more of the applicant pool. Therefore, we make our decisions about waitlisted applicants when there is more of the applicant pool in front of us.

What's this year's tuition?

For the 1997 academic year, the tuition for residents is $3,318 per semester, and for nonresidents it's $6,657. We have an objective of not increasing the tuition more than 3½% each year.

I understand that tuition costs include a $75 computer fee. Does that mean there is a mandatory laptop requirement?

No, there's not a mandatory laptop requirement here, but about 80% of the MBA students own a computer of some sort when they enter. And within a month after entering the program, 98% of the student body owns a computer. A laptop is the most convenient type of computer to own. The fee is what the central university charges to allow students to maintain a very good supply of computer labs and computers in them fully equipped with the latest software.

Do most applicants come from the state of Pennsylvania?

No. The number of applications from Pennsylvania is in the neighborhood of less than 25% of the application pool. About slightly more than 50% of our applications come from outside of the country.

I understand that most, if not all of Smeal's MBA students live within five miles of the school. What would you estimate the annual cost of living to be in the University Park area?

Yes, that's true. This is a traditional college town with a native population of about 40,000 and a student population of about 40,000. So there are a lot of apartment units located very close to campus, as well as dorm and university-owned apartments on campus. The rates here for on-campus living are about $1,200 per semester for the room and $1,100 per semester for the meal plan. You can live off campus, particularly if you share a three-bedroom apartment for something less than that -- $300 of shared rent is probably standard. So, including tuition, one year at Penn State costs about $20,000 -- for nonresidents.

Let's delve into the kind of scholarship and financial aid that is available to Smeal students. What should students be aware of?

Fifteen percent of the scholarship available is designated for domestic minority students, and they're typically all funded by various sources throughout the university or by corporations. In addition to that, about 8% of the class has a scholarship offer, and the standard is $7,500 for two years (based on merit). Beyond that, we recommend against students seeking a graduate assistantship position in the first year. We don't legislate against it, but recommend against it. In the second year, another 15% of the students are able to secure graduate assistantships, which provide a full tuition waiver and a stipend of $950/month before taxes. On average, 20%-22% of the students each year are international, and a number of them are sponsored by their home country or current employer, so they're not really part of the aid package.

How about job recruitment and placement? Does the school's location, more than 100 miles away from an urban location, hinder recruitment efforts?

We don't think it does, we don't have any recruiters who have ever said that to us. We have no difficulties getting companies to recruit on campus. I think many of them enjoy coming to the area and have never viewed it as a hindrance.

Is the number of recruiters interviewing on campus growing?

Yes, it has. Right now there are just over 150 companies recruiting on campus. As you know, the job market for MBAs over the last three years has continued to blossom. There are many corporations out there searching very hard to find a good MBA program to source their talent. Last year, the average number of interviews per person was 13.3 (for second-years), while the average number of job offers per person was 2.7. Both of those figures are up from previous years.

Is recruitment regionally tied, or is it dispersed around the globe?

No, placement is not at all regionally confined. The percentage of jobs goes like this: 48% are placed in the Northeast, 5% in the Southeast, 16% in the Midwest, 7% in the Mountain and Southwest states, 8% in the West, and 16% in the international arena.

What kind of salaries are Smeal grads walking away with today?

That's also going up. In 1997, our students averaged a $66,400 payout, including signing incentives. That's up from $58,500 for the year earlier.

Do you feel that most of the salary and recruiter increase can be attributed to Penn State's two on-campus career fairs -- the Smeal College Career Fair and the Minority Center Awareness Days?

I think they have contributed to the increase, but also contributing is the fact that we have increased the amount of work experience in the profile of the student body and therefore have a more attractive product. Let's also not forget that the job market for MBAs is very healthy.

With which other B-schools do Smeal's applicants most often overlap?

We overlap with Wharton, University of Texas at Austin, Ohio State, Purdue, Maryland, and UNC at Chapel Hill

Roger, would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

I'd just like to say that if I could give a one sentence description of how we view the Smeal program today, I would say it's an immersive, highly intense, demanding, team-oriented, integrated program that emphasizes communication skills, has accessible faculty, and promotes a family atmosphere.

Thanks much for discussing the Smeal School's MBA program with me today, Roger.