Edited by Nadav Enbar

MEET THE ADMISSIONS DIRECTOR
A Business Week Online Q & A

For nearly a decade, Business Week's Best Business Schools rankings have been the leading source of sound and reliable advice for students seeking a Master of Business Administration degree. One of the topics that is of most concern to the thousands of students with whom we have communicated over the years is the admissions process: How do you best prepare for business school? On what basis do admissions officers judge you? How important -- or not -- is it to interview at various schools? Do your interests -- and your personality -- fit in with the goals and culture of the school?

The answers to these questions are especially important given the increasingly tough competition for the relatively few slots available each year at top b-schools. For the top 25 schools in Business Week's rankings, the number of applications is up 44% in 1997 vs. the level in 1993. In no small part, that's because salaries for MBAs have taken off, too.

Where do you get the best advice on how to enter this fray? From admissions officers, of course. Hence this series of Business Week Q & A's with these key officials at top schools. We'll add a couple of new transcripts here every week for six months or more. So come back often to check out our latest -- and let us know what you think#151; and let us know what you think!

On Mar. 3, 1998, we spoke with Sandra Kelzenberg, Associate Director of the Day & Evening MBA Programs at the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management (a runner-up in Business Week's 1996 rankings). Sandra has been involved with the University of Minnesota for the better part of 28 years. After earning an MA in education administration from the school, she began her career in education, becoming a coordinator of nontraditional bachelor's degree programs. From there, she has climbed the ranks, serving as a counselor for part-time MBA students, then moving on to become director of admissions and student services. She is the school's primary GMAC (Graduate Management Admissions Council) representative, a member of ETS's TOEFL (Test Of English as a Foreign Language) policy board, and an American Teachers of Russian applicant reviewer and interviewer. Ms. Kelzenberg was interviewed by Business Week Online reporter Nadav Enbar. Here's the transcript of that discussion:

Sandra, you've been integrally involved with the Carlson School over the past eight years. What types of large-scale changes have occurred over that time?

We just moved into a new building in January. We have a lot of high-tech and breakout rooms in the new building, which gives students a lot of opportunity to integrate themselves into the curriculum. That's great for us because we have an integrative curriculum with business coming in. For example, "Tek-Start" is an online class that has students work with the local business community and faculty before they come to campus for orientation. The class allows our students to get familiar with technology. We have students here who have both high and low computer/tech skills, and we want everyone to be at a similar level of computer knowhow. That's just one class that brings everybody up to speed. In addition, the Tek-Start class puts students in chat rooms to meet each other before they come to the campus.

The Carlson School is pretty heavily involved in technology. Does the school require its students to own a laptop?

We do not at this time. They're not essential because we have wonderful computer labs. But I do recommend having a laptop because students like to do a lot of group work in breakout rooms, away from the labs. Generally, it just makes sense to own one.

How have Carlson's applicants changed over the eight years you've been evaluating them?

Our applications have increased substantially, and with that, our level of selectivity has increased. We've been emphasizing that applicants have both quality work experience as well as a good amount of it. The average age of our class is 28, which is a little higher than we had anticipated. It's a good age for us because we like the quality work experience that has been garnered over that time.

Have Carlson's applications gone electronic?

We do have our application available on the Web, and you can actually send it back to us via the Web. We've created the Web version ourselves and have had it out there for the last 3-4 months. There hasn't been as much activity on it as we anticipated thus far. I think students are a bit uncomfortable with it at this point. But that comfort level will grow with time. We're actually finding that our part-time candidates are using the Web application more than our full-timers, which surprises us. We also have our applications on Apply software and other packages.

What type of candidate are you seeing applying to Carlson?

We see the whole mixture, and that's good because we want to ensure diversity in our classes. I see a lot of applicants who have minimal work experience, and many will be denied in a positive manner, where we'll send back a "not yet" letter, stating that we like their credentials but that we'd like them to work on a couple of things -- sometimes that just means staying put at their job and gaining more work experience. We work with them and strive to have them reapply to the program.

We really put a lot of emphasis on that work experience. In fact, I believe that we have been quite successful in upping the amount of work experience that our students have, and now, in fact, need to place a little less emphasis on it, focusing more on the applicants' GMAT scores. We see a lot of people coming from the high-tech arena, looking to take advantage of the very strong MIS program here.

Do you feel that information technology is the school's primary draw?

Not necessarily so. We have a lot of people from many different industries and backgrounds applying to take advantage of numerous offerings here. The majority of our pool is interested in our marketing and finance curriculum.

Sandra, you mentioned that the school's application tally has "increased substantially" over the past year or so. What is Carlson's official application total for its Class of '99?

Last year, we received 715 applications for the two-year MBA program. We admitted 264 of those that applied, and our yield was 102 (or 39%). It was a slight improvement in applications over the previous year. Our admit to matriculate was basically the same as last year. Maybe there was a slight 2% difference.

That 102-student class size is comparatively smaller than most of the other schools in BW's Top 50. Do you have plans to grow that at all?

We're planning to grow it a little bit. We split each class into two sections of about 50 students each. We feel we can grow the sections a small amount. The new building allows us the opportunity to grow the population slowly down the line. Classrooms are situated as such that we can do that successfully, and we feel confident that our quality core professors can handle a slight student increase.

What's your target size and time frame for growing the school population?

We'll grow it to 120-130 students this year and to 140 students next year. We'll probably go to a third section three years down the line to allow our class to hit the 160-170 mark. We actually wanted to do this a couple of years ago, but our facilities would not allow us to do that effectively. Now I believe we can go ahead with it because of our new facility, and because we have the application pool to do it. We plan to invest substantially into our efforts to grow the application pool to allow us to grow the class, and have been given the go-ahead for doing more marketing, outreach, and alumni events

How will this the growth in class size affect the curriculum?

When we seriously considered growing the program, we made sure to speak with faculty because they're responsible for the integrated nature of the Carlson curriculum. Their response was very positive. They thought they could still teach it effectively. In fact, they thought that they could effectively teach a class size of about 160-165. And the Career Services Office is also happy about growing the class size because it's a size that allows them to maintain a good level of personalized attention while also providing a critical mass for recruiters to take advantage of.

Carlson has really been building its international course work over the last couple of years. Can you tell me a little bit about what students can take advantage of on the international front?

We have three different kinds of international options. For the first option, students can take advantage of our 10-week study-abroad programs at various universities around the world [including the University of Melbourne, Manchester Business School, Escola de Administracao de Empresas in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and the Ecole des Hautes Etudes Commerciales in Paris]. A second option allows students to participate in our five-week summer program in Lyon, France. Lastly, we have a Vienna summer program where students do research here in Minnesota and then go to Vienna for a week during the summer where they're learning about how business works in emerging economies.

In addition to internationalizing our student body, the school has invested in upgrading our teaching faculty. We're now sending more and more instructors abroad to teach. They've taught at such places as Moscow State University, Warsaw University, Universite Jean Moulin [in Lyon], as well as others. So, they're teaching at many different schools located around the world, and the idea is to really internationalize the faculty.

O.K., so it sounds like the school is trying to internationalize the student body and faculty by exposing them to emerging markets, etc. By the same token, are you increasing your efforts to grow the international student presence within the program?

We actually increased that this year. About 20%-21% of the Class of '99 is international. Our number of international applications has been increasing. In fact, both the domestic and international pool have grown at the same percentage points the last three years.

What are this year's application deadlines?

The final deadline is Apr. 1, and we will still have seats available at that time. Overall we have three deadlines. The first is on Jan. 1; the second is Mar. 1; and the final is Apr. 1. And we guarantee a decision within six weeks. The international deadline is Feb. 15, and a decision by Apr. 15th. That one takes longer because we have to do all of the international credentialing.

Is there a separate deadline for scholarship?

No, but we ask students to get their application into us by the first deadline for high-visibility scholarships. We do go back and review the pool and reassign scholarships because there are always some accepted applicants out there who turn us down.

Do you have an idea of how quickly the class spots tend to get filled? Is there a date you have in mind when the majority of the class is set?

It really depends upon what our major competitors are doing. The MBA arena is a highly competitive environment right now. Applicants who truly want to go to the Carlson School apply early and confirm early. Having said that, I would say that between 50%-70% of the class is filled by Mar. 1. By the time the Apr. 1 deadline rolls around, many accepted applicants are deciding which among the different schools they've been accepted to [they want] to attend . For those individuals, we encourage them to come to campus and visit with our faculty, administrative staff, and students. By Apr. 1, I'd say probably 70% of the class is complete -- and that's an estimate.

What are the different criteria you look for within the candidate's file?

We look for high academic ability; for whether or not they were interviewed by one of our staff; for good recommendations; for quality work history; for good essays; and obviously good GMAT scores. We evaluate work experience through the resume and the separate work history sheet. The essays really get at the leadership and communication skills that we're really looking for.

I noticed that Carlson requires its students to have taken college-level calculus (and have earned a B or higher). Is that still a requirement?

Yes, that is still valid. We are somewhat of a quant program, particularly during the first two quarters of the first year. The reason we have that requirement in place is because we want students to be prepared for those first-year courses. We also want to teach those courses at a very top level. And because we have people with engineering degrees studying alongside folks with humanities degrees, obviously their quant backgrounds are at different levels. So, the requirement helps to ensure that all of our students are capable of completing our basic core requirements.

Do you offer refresher courses or primer classes to help student brush up on their quant skills before the first semester kicks off?

We do offer a short math refresher during the first week of orientation, but that's the only type of prep course available. We recommend that they do their prep work on their own. Or they can get the GMAC CD-ROM, which provides quant prep work in accounting and finance.

Sandra, you mentioned earlier placing less emphasis on applicants' work experience and focusing more on their GMAT scores. Is that the element in the application that you are scrutinizing most closely these days?

Well, I don't want the work experience to drop substantially, but we do have it at a level at or above other schools and feel that now we can relax a little on that and focus on other things. The GMAT is the next element we're working on. And it does not comprise any more importance than the other variables in the application. It is one of many elements of the application file that I use to evaluate the candidate.

Do you take a holistic approach to the GMAT?

I definitely take a holistic approach when evaluating the GMAT. There's no magic formula, if that's what you're asking. When you're a smaller program like ours, you can take a more holistic approach when trying to discern what the applicant offers.

We look at the total score, but also the individual parts of the test. If, for example, a student scores poorly in the quant section but has completed a lot of quant work for their undergrad and graduate degrees, then we'll take that into advisement. However, if an applicant has a low quant score in addition to having done a minimal amount of quant work in school, then we're very concerned.

We look at the AWA (Analytical Writing Assessment) if there is a concern for writing. That goes especially for international candidates. We're not able to interview many of them, and the AWA provides us with an alternative for assessing their communication skills.

What type of GMAT score are you now interested in seeing?

GMAT scores have been over or right at 600. But we would like to increase that. We'll need to move to an average of 610-620 to remain competitive.

Has the admissions office been receiving many more GMAT scores since the GMAT test went electronic this past year?

It has been about the same. And actually, in the last couple of months, the number of GMAT CAT (Computer Adaptive Test) takers have decreased over last year. But that evens out if you look at the increase the CAT experienced in October (when it was first introduced).

Interviews are not required, but it appears that you are placing more emphasis on them...

That's right, the interview is not required, but we highly recommend it. This year I'd say that about 40% of our domestic pool will have been interviewed. We are placing more emphasis on it and have actually only started recommending the interview for the last two years. We don't do telephone interviews and thus don't sit down with many international applicants.

Who interviews?

The three people in the full-time admissions staff. We currently do not use students to conduct any formal admissions interviews. However, when someone comes to campus to interview, they stay here for a half-day, during which time they interview with the admissions staff, attend a class with a student, sit down for lunch, and have the opportunity to really ask questions and talk with staff, students, and administrators. The entire process takes about 3-4 hours. And I do ask the student hosts to evaluate candidates by having them fill out a form stating why they would want or not want the applicant in the program.

How important are students' evaluations?

I'd say it carries almost as much weight as ours (evaluations done by the admissions staff) because students have had the opportunity to see the applicant interact in the social and class environment. Some candidates are amazing and are constantly asking questions during their visit. That makes an immediate impact on the students.

Does that mean that there are two evaluation forms that need to be filled out for the interview?

No, not all the time. Some students choose just to be interviewed, and then they leave. The actual interview lasts about 40 minutes.

I'd like to emphasize that the interview gives us time to find out if candidates are right for Carlson, but it also gives the candidates time to figure if Carlson is right for them. And we'll counsel quality applicants who don't quite fit into the program about what they can do to strengthen their file for future consideration.. Maybe they have minimal-to-no work experience, or have a low GPA or GMAT -- we'll spend time talking to them about the steps they should take to improve upon their shortcomings.

Maybe someone wants to pursue a degree in actuarial sciences. Well, we don't have that here. Or maybe someone would like to groom themselves to become an HR director. We don't have that type of program at Carlson either, but the university, for example, offers a MA in Arts and Industrial Relations degree that I would recommend an interested applicant look into. In other words, we can't be everything to everyone, and we try to manage the expectations for what we are.

What's should applicants do to prepare themselves for the interview?

I would have them spend some research time on finding out what programs are offered here. What concentrations do they want to pursue? I would have them research the strengths of the school, as well as the class composition, the size, and the curriculum. I would also have candidates take a look at the CSO to find out where students are typically placed, and for what types of positions. I would also encourage students to visit the school to talk to several students because current students will talk in a very honest way. Generally, though, I would just have them spend some time thinking about their careers: what they've accomplished thus far, what they want to accomplish, what they can offer to the school and student body, and what the school can give to them in return.

How many essays are there?

There are three essays. The first one asks the candidate to clearly express his or her career objectives, and how the MBA degree contributes to those career goals. We're looking for candidates with well-planned personal goals and how those goals mesh with the program's. The second question revolves around their managerial experience and really helps us gauge whether a candidate can solve problems -- whether they have the ability to think out of the box. And the third essay question asks applicants what they feel will be their most significant contribution to the school. This is where the personalities really come out. Most candidates talk about their prior experiences, making this question the most fun to read.

What pointers do you have for applicants, concerning the essays?

Avoid negativism. I want students to tell their story in positive ways. Once in a while we'll see an application that is negative, and that shows a lack of maturity. The other thing is that I would ask is for applicants to be reasonable about their goals. They should explain anything that they feel is not expressed clearly in their background because it's certainly better for them to tell the admissions committee about it rather than let us guess.

How many recommendations do you require?

Two.

Do you have preference for how they are broken up?

We prefer them to be from employers or from people who the applicant works with on a volunteer committee. Generally, though, we'd like them to come from the work environment. I'm not as pleased with an academic recommendation because more of our candidates are applying to the program after already spending a couple of years out in the workforce. The professor-student relationship, in most cases, becomes distant.

Sandra, you've been saying throughout our conversation that work experience has really taken off. What's the range in Carlson students' work experience?

The average for the class that graduated in 1996 was five years. We're up to about 5.2 for the Class of '99. And, as I said, we can relax it a little if we need to. We would like our students to have a minimum of two to three years under their belts before entering the program. That's a good starting point for us. The work experience doesn't necessarily have to equal five years because more isn't necessarily better: It's the quality that we have our eye on. We don't want to discourage anyone who has 2-3 years of solid experience under their belts from applying.

Is there anybody enrolled in the Carlson two-year MBA program who has no professional work experience to speak of?

This fall: no. Two years ago, it was around 2%-5%.

So does that mean that not having any or a significant amount of experience effectively precludes an applicant from being accepted?

They would have to have some wonderful internship, part-time, leadership responsibility that would really have to be very special. They would have to have some incredible attributes that lead us to believe that the MBA is in line with their career goals.

Sandra, how does Carlson's decision-making process work?

We have an admissions committee that reviews all the applications. Each application is reviewed by at least three individuals which includes myself, another member of the admissions staff, and other staff in the MBA program. Each committee member reviews and ranks an applicant, and that's where we have a chance to discuss what the individual candidate has to offer to the program. Acceptance is based on a majority vote.

Does Carlson utilize a waitlist?

We actually just started one last year, and continue to use it on a very small basis. Maybe a dozen or 20 applicants are placed on it annually.

Any advice for the the waitlisted on what they can do to up their chance of acceptance?

They can come to class and meet with current students to show their interest in the school. We spend a lot of time talking with both waitlisted applicant and people we deny admissions to. Many times they're placed on the waitlist just because we don't have the space, and we'll usually hold them there until after our last confirmation date (Editor's note: Accepted applicants have four weeks from the time they are aware of their acceptance to decide on whether they wish to attend the program).

What's this year's tuition? Has that changed from last year?

For in-state residents, it's $9,780, and for nonresidents, it's $14,525.

Is it fairly easy for students to establish residency during their second year to qualify for that discounted, in-state tuition price tag?

Unfortunately, the state does not allow this and has pretty stringent guidelines for rewarding residency. Being here just to go to school does not qualify you for in-state tuition. But we have a lot of fellowships available here, to make up the difference. If you hold a teaching assistantship, which 26 of our students do, you automatically receive in-state tuition. We're still low in cost compared to other MBA programs. When you come in, we guarantee that tuition is fixed for two years. It's fixed if you take 12 or 18 credits -- so students can really plan their stay here.

What is the cost of living in the Minneapolis area?

That's a difficult one. I would say a one-bedroom apartment goes for $550 a month and that the price for food varies, depending on your preferences.

Do you feel the school's location scares applicants away? I hear the Minnesota summer only lasts two days!

Absolutely not. Our director of the MBA program (Gary Lindblad) just moved here from L.A., and has been pleasantly surprised. I actually think that our location is a selling point for us because our business community is extremely vibrant. We're in a safe, metropolitan area, and that makes a difference for many of our international applicants. And if people are worried about the weather, the campus is connected under- and overground. We have a huge atrium in the building for students to come in and mingle. On the other hand, I see students outside enjoying the weather all of the time, playing broom ball.

Sandra, you briefly alluded to the assistantships available to students. What other kind of financial aid and scholarship does Carlson offer to offset the financial burden?

We have about $300,000 available in scholarship for first-year students. We have varied fellowships available, and some of them come with full or partial stipends -- which makes a difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition. These are all merit-based, hinging primarily on the candidates' GPA, GMAT, and work experience.

Is there scholarship available for international students as well?

I have just two of them this year. But we're offering them for the first time and hope to build on them for the future. Second-year international students can, however, apply for scholarship through the university's International Office.

How many students are actually receiving aid of some sort?

A lot of students are receiving aid and assistantships from enterprises or foundations outside of the school. Out of 130 students, about 36 are on scholarships. So you're looking at about 25%-30% with scholarships.

We also have reciprocity with Wisconsin, Manitoba, and South Dakota, meaning that if, for example, Wisconsin residents come to attend school here in Minnesota, they only have to pay in-state tuition. So it allows people to go back and forth between the states and not have to pay out-of-state tuition.

How much debt have Carlson students incurred by the time they graduate?

We have not been able to gather that type of information yet, but that's one of the things on the agenda.

Let's segue into job prospects. Have there been any improvements made to the Career Services Office?

The university actually recently hired a new director (Mike Agnew) who has changed directions. Our students seem to be much happier playing a much more integrated role. One of the first things he put on an informational questionnaire he devised, to get a better idea of how things have been going here, was a call for student feedback. That's really brought students much further into the fold.

Is the number of companies recruiting on campus increasing?

Yes, and we have a lot more interview room in our new facility that is allowing us to grow comfortably. Already, the number of companies coming to campus increased by 13% over the yearend total from one year ago. A more careful review indicates that the increase has been in the technology, investment banking, and consulting arenas. The number of job offers and salary amounts are also increasing: 64% more job offers, and 60% more accepted job offers have been reported this year over last year. In addition, salary offers, in terms of annual starting salaries, have increased 14% compared to offers reported at the same time last year. I think part of that is due to the fact that more of our students tend to be going towards consulting which pays more.

Who are your toughest competitors?

I think our toughest competitor is Northwestern because of its location and marketing emphasis. UTexas at Austin, Indiana, and Michigan are very strong public-school competitors. But the quality of our student body is strong, and many applicants choose us over our competitors because of our location and our relationship with our local business community.

Are the majority of Carlson's applicants Minnesota residents?

No, not anymore. That has been steadily declining over the past decade. For instance, in 1986, 60% of the applicant pool were Minnesota residents. In 1989, that figure dropped to 48%, and in 1996 it was at 41%. That's held pretty constant the last couple of years. Four or five years ago we were much more of a Midwest program, but now we have much more of a national and international orientation.

Sandra, would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

I would like to tell students that if they want to learn in a close-knit environment embraced by a vibrant business community and taught by a solid staff, then we're a good school to look into. Our dean calls Carlson a "living learning lab."

We have field projects where students go out and do fieldwork for a quarter. Or they can work for three quarters (nine months) on developing a new product. Or they can work in our financial-markets lab and actually do live investment. So students have a wealth of things to plug into. There is a capstone course where CEOs discuss their companies' strategies and are constantly interacting with students. Students also have mentors in the business community that are high-level executives in their companies. So, it's that partnering with the business community and the school that can really make a difference.

Sandra, thanks much for discussing the Carlson MBA program with me today.

My pleasure. Take care.


For more information, you can contact the Carlson School's Admissions Office at (612) 624-9887 or check out the school's Web site at www.csom.umn.edu