First off, Richard, I understand that you are stepping down from your position at the end of this admissions cycle. Do you have a replacement yet?

Yes, we do. It will be Jill Deutser: She's an MBA student graduating on the 9th of May. We've actually been working together for the past month and a half, so the transition should be smooth. She'll be taking over on July 1, 1998. I'll give her my insight, and obviously she'll have some ideas of her own. So, there will be some flexibility.

What types of things have you been emphasizing in the application?

I look for rounded applications, that means including all the different facets of the application process in my evaluation: the academic transcript -- about 15% of our students have master's or PhD degrees; the GMAT, which is the common thread through all of the different schools; three recommendations -- those are the pieces that give you an insight from someone who has worked with or knows the individual better than I do; and then there are five essays, with the fifth being optional. We're also placing more emphasis on the work experience. We're trying to move to a minimum of two years of work experience, and will probably have 95% of the class with at least that much by the year 2000.

Can you give me a snapshot of the type of applicant who is successful in his or her bid for entrance at the Jones School?

Well, here's a quick class profile... The average amount of work experience for the Class of 1999 is 4.7 years, and this year's class (Class of 2000) will measure up or exceed that. The average GMAT for the Class of 1999 is 632, the average age of our students is 27.5 years, and the average GPA is 3.2. Thirty percent of the class are female, that's up 3% from 1996 -- and we'd like to expand on that. Their backgrounds, as far as academics and work experience are concerned, vary greatly. They may be fine arts majors or engineers. I'd say approximately 37% of the class has an engineering or science background.

What particular element of the Jones program, in your opinion, attracts qualified applicants?

I think the thing that's going to attract them in the future is the new dean and new curricular format that will start in the fall of 1998. We're going to a modular format. Basically that means we'll break each 15-week semester into three five-week intervals. Each interval will equal one credit hour. In our first year, no subject matter will be longer than 10 weeks. The attraction here is the increased opportunity to pick up electives. You can go in depth into a particular area for 10 weeks, or, if you want an overview, you can go to the five-week option.

We've introduced four electives into the new first-year core, so it's not really a core anymore; students will have choices that they can identify in the first year. In addition, a five-week session called an Action Learning Project, which is course work in the field, analogous to a summer internship, will be a new wrinkle offered in the new curriculum. The goal of the Action Learning Project is to get a jump start into the summer internship by getting students into local corporations and having them work with executives for five weeks. Students receive class credit, and they don't get paid, but they do have the opportunity to showcase their talents to a possible employer. So, the Action Learning Project also bring companies into the recruiting fold for summer internship possibilities. And, I should mention that [since] students do no other coursework during their Action Learning Project, they're focused on just that one goal.

Our new dean, Gilbert Whitaker, who was hired on July 1 of 1997, actually got the ball rolling for the new modular format. He went to the faculty and said: "We've got to make some changes: Give me some things to work with." So, he's been the chief innovator of the curriculum developments.

One of the knocks against the Jones School is its lack of exchange programs. Have any types of overseas initiatives been set into motion?

Exchange programs will be introduced down the road -- not by this fall, but down the line a bit. We're thinking of doing some joint ventures with some schools in the European Community. We don't plan to move immediately into the Asian Rim communities quite as soon.

The Jones application pool has been shrinking over the past couple of years -- an outlier in today's MBA arena. In 1992 the school received 858 applications; in 1996 it received 571 apps; and, I believe this past year, the school netted an even smaller total, grabbing 526 apps. Is this the result of school efforts to reduce the app pool?

No, it's not based in any way on the school's effort to reduce the application pool. I think we became outmoded in the industry, and that's the reason for some of the changes that are taking place here today.

Do you feel the school's absence of official accreditation has played a part in the school's application downturn?

Absolutely, and that is being addressed even as we speak.

What's happening on that front?

Actually, the AACSB [now called the International Association for Management Education] accreditation team was in here for two days on Feb. 23-24. While they were here, they discussed everything from admissions to faculty to class diversity to the curriculum. My general impression is that they were quite pleased with what they saw taking place. I believe that when that accreditation occurs -- and I personally believe that it will happen soon -- and we pop up on the U.S. News & World Report radar screen, that based on all of our other parameters -- our average age of the class, starting salary, GPA, etc. -- I think that will create a lot of attention for quality applicants. It will help to structure the thought process from the applicants' standpoint.

There was nothing negative in their evaluation of our program, with the exception of our program diversity. I believe our faculty come up short on diversity, and I know that our students come up short on diversity. By that I mean we do not have a satisfactory amount of African Americans in the faculty or in the student population. We're working on improving that. (Editor's note: Minority students make up just 3% of Jones's population.)

Is the school's undergraduate business program still the main sticking point barring Jones from becoming accredited?

That used to be the main sticking point about 10 years ago, but today, it's no longer an issue. The AACSB has changed a lot, and we just didn't keep up. Initially it was basically the undergrad business program. The AACSB has long since moved that from one of the issues, however. Besides needing to increase our minorities enrollment, the other issue we're facing is our use of adjunct faculty from the community; we have a fair amount of highly placed business people teach electives in their areas of expertise. And we have to come up with a higher number of students being taught by tenured faculty to meet AACSB's standards. I feel that our growth in faculty and our initiative to abide by accreditation rules has put us in the clear, however. We need the AACSB, and I think, personally, that they need us.

Although the school has been experiencing a downturn in apps, it doesn't seem to be affecting the quality of the student body.

That's true. This year, the quality of our application pool has actually gone up. I don't know if that's because of some self-selecting that has dropped our application total or other opportunities. We're going to dramatically increase our marketing efforts next year, however, now that we have a budget that will support that.

What's the class size for 1999?

This year's class size will be about 125, broken into three sections. In the past we've always been two sections.

What was the yield for the Class of 1999?

About 55% accepted our invitation to enroll in the program. We extended 236 offers to 526 applicants [for a 45% admission rate]. We actually enrolled 131, but have lost a few at the midterm.

I realize that the small class size is one of the Jones School's greatest assets. However, given the popularity of the MBA degree and the demand for management education, is the school discussing whether to increase its class size?

Yes, we have been talking about it. Right now, we're thinking of growing the class to 180 new students per class, giving us a total class of 360 people.

That's a big increase.

That's true, but it's not going to take place overnight. We envision having that happen around 2002. This year, we're going to stick with 120 students. One of the major things we're doing here is splitting our class into three sections of 40 students each. Breaking the class up into three sections really helps maintain the students' contact with the faculty. The faculty basically have no other distractions because we don't have an undergraduate business or PhD business program here. In addition, our dean has submitted an application to the university president for a new business building because we've outgrown our space at this point.

You mentioned increasing your marketing efforts. Is the school going to be targeting any particular type of applicants in terms of the industry that they're coming from, their geographic location, or their academic background?

No, we won't, and have not been targeting a specific applicant in the nature that you mentioned, but we are going to continue to look for individuals with better academics and more work experience, as well as try and increase the diversity in the class, striving to bring more minorities and women into the program. As far as undergraduate disciplines or industries are concerned, there won't be much of a switch. Students right now are coming from the entire undergraduate spectrum -- from accounting to zoology, with fine arts in the middle someplace. So there's really a diverse student educational background.

Where are you seeing the sharpest growth in applications coming from?

Currently it's coming from the Asian Rim, particularly mainland China and Taiwan. We really want to penetrate the European Community as well.

Do most of Jones's applications come from Texas or the Southwest region of the U.S.?

I'd say probably 50% currently do. We're looking to go out aggressively in our marketing campaign to buttress our appearances at the MBA forums. We've also had the opportunity this spring to have an open house on the campus, and it has given us the opportunity to gain some exposure, introduce people to what we have to offer, and have faculty and the administration put on a favorable presentation. And we got favorable feedback from the 100 or so people who attended the event.

Is it too late to apply to the Jones program?

No, it's not too late. We've extended the application deadline for this year to Apr. 15 for everybody. We work on a rolling admissions basis, and have already made 135 offers and received 40 positive deposits.

Is there a separate deadline for scholarship?

No, there's no separate deadline for scholarship. Our offer letters contain the scholarship we have to offer if there is any.

Let's talk about the GMAT, the common variable used by all B-schools. How do you assess it? Is there a score that you are comfortable with?

We really do not have a minimum GMAT score because we try to look at the whole application: the work experience, the undergraduate record, the references, the transcripts, etc. The GMAT range for the Class of 1999 was 510-770. So it runs the gamut. There are certain things in certain applications where there may be a poor GPA or GMAT, but something else in the packet says that they'll do well in the program. And that's why you just can't have a cutoff score in mind when reviewing the GMAT.

Are you becoming more comfortable reviewing files that have multiple GMAT scores now that the GMAT CAT is a reality?

I'm adapting to it. I think it's actually good for the student and the university because now we have a more steady flow of GMAT results. Before, when the paper test was administered, we went through peaks and valleys, which really bottlenecked the process.

How do you assess the GMAT if the applicant has taken the test several times?

We only take the highest score achieved. We break it down into all of the components: verbal, quant, and the analytical writing assessment (AWA). Sometimes we might have to go back to the transcript. If, for example, an individual doesn't do too well on a particular component, say the math, then I'll look at the transcript to see whether they did well on any quant courses -- I'll do the same with verbal if that's low.

I've never really been sure of the AWA. I've seen so much disparity between a verbal score percentile-wise and the AWA score percentile-wise that I really question the validity of the AWA score. It's scored on a six-point system, and I think the average on that test is around a 4.5, which is like the 64% percentile. My problem in assessing it arises when I see real high marks on the verbal or TOEFL score, and then see low marks on the AWA. Then I'll read the AWA, and find, based on my own opinion, that it looks pretty good. So, I'm wrestling with the validity of the AWA.

Interviews at the Jones School are not required, but are strongly recommended. Are many applicants taking you up on your offer to sit down and talk? Is the number of students being interviewed increasing?

Yes, on both counts. I encourage people to interview because basically I want to get the individual on campus so that they can experience the classroom environment and get a sense of the pervading culture here... get an overall feeling for the organization.

Are interviews only done on campus?

No, if they want to interview with an alum or have a phone interview, we can arrange that. We won't force anybody to go through the great expense of coming down here if they can't afford it.

About what percentage of the applicant pool are currently being interviewed?

Currently, probably 55%-65% of the actual pool interview.

How does the interview fit into your overall evaluation of applicants?

It's a factor. We use the interview mainly to give the applicants more information, answer their questions, and address their concerns. But obviously I keep my eyes and my ears open at the same time. I'm aware of whether the applicant is serious or not serious by their body language.

What should applicants do to prepare themselves for the interview?

I think applicants should come prepared with questions. They should have done some research so they're not asking things that are widely dispersed already. That's pretty much it. The interview is primarily an informational exchange, it's not a grilling session.

What do you ask, generally?

I'll ask them why they've chosen us, what part of our profile they like, and why they want an MBA. I know schools that won't let you interview until after you've submitted your application. That's not an issue here. We'll interview people who walk in off the street and provide them with information. Some of the folks I sit down with for an interview may never submit an application, but I feel it's important to sit down with everyone interested in our program.

How many essays are in the Jones application packet?

There are four required essays and one that is optional that candidates can use to explain something about themselves that they don't feel they've had a chance to address through the other facets of the application.

Have the actual questions changed recently?

They changed about two years ago, and I would anticipate that they'll change again next year.

Do you enforce word limits?

We don't really have word limits, but we say that two paragraphs should suffice for each question. If candidates sit down to think about them, they should be able to reply in a succinct manner, transmitting their thoughts in the space available. I have, however, received four or five pages on each question.

Are book reports a red flag?

To tell you the truth, that doesn't happen frequently, but when it does, it's something that has me look harder at the applicant's file. Usually, longer essays come from international applicants, and I suspect some of that is cultural.

What do the essays entail?

The first question is standard: Why apply to Rice for an MBA? Another asks you to define your career ambition and how you anticipate the MBA will help further your career? The third essay I find quite telling. It introduces a situation where you're working on a team project and a member isn't pulling his or her weight. How do you deal with that particular scenario? The fourth and final of the required questions asks you to describe an achievement that you're most proud of and why. You'd be amazed by some of the responses I've received on that one. And the fifth one is the optional one.

What words of advice do you have for aspiring Rice MBAs about the best ways to tackle the essay section of the application?

My approach is, and if I interview with them, I'll tell them this: Don't give me what you think I want to hear because I really don't know what I want to hear until I read the essays. I'm looking for the unusual and personal experience, and the honest response. For example, one young man wrote that his greatest achievement was fatherhood. That made me think -- this guy's whole life has changed, in terms of his lifestyle, priorities, and responsibilities. Things like that really give me some insight into an individual and their priorities and objectives.

How many recommendations do you require?

Three. Usually -- because most of our students have been out of school and in the workforce for around two years -- I like the references to come from current employers. They tell me what the individual has done and what he or she is capable of. So. I would say that the recommendations should really be coming from the work environment.

Is it inappropriate for a candidate to get a recommendation from a professor?

No, if they've had a relationship with a professor -- and some do, and maintain contact in some cases -- then that's legit.

Speaking of work experience, what's this year's range?

For the Class of 1999, the work experience ranged from 0-22 years.

Does the school use a waitlist?

We do on an informal basis. The waitlist probably doesn't have more than 30 people on it at any one time. So basically, that means that I can handle that one-on-one; I can contact them and tell them where their application is and why they haven't heard from us. For internationals, I usually use E-mail, and sometimes I'll make a phone call to check their language skills.

What can applicants do to give themselves a leg up on their waitlisted peers?

For a waitlisted applicant with little or no work experience to get into the program, that individual is going to have to be real strong academically. They also have to have been involved in campus and community activities, and meaningful summer internships. Bottom line, I'll still encourage them to continue to seek employment, rather than enter the program. If they obtain a job, we'll gladly give them a deferral

Do you provide counseling for waitlisted applicants?

Yes, and also for rejected applicants as well. If I have personally talked to somebody, interviewed with them, met them, and remember them from multiple phone conversations, then I will always put a personal comment on the letter that says we're sorry, but you don't meet our standards.

Do you encourage applicants, in certain situations, to reapply.

Yes, there are instances where I've encouraged applicants to reapply. I'll advise them to fix this, tweak that, and come back to us in a year. And I'll get pretty specific about what they need to improve.

What's this year's tuition?

Tuition for fall of 1998 is going to be $15,750 per year. That does fluctuate for the second year -- it'll probably go up by 7%-8%.

What would you estimate the annual cost of living to be in the Houston area?

It's right around $9,000 for students. The cost of living in the Houston metropolitan area is about 17% below the national average. Our average salary is 8% above the national average on an annualized basis -- that's for overall community standards. What does the typical apartment go for? You can get a nice two-bedroom, near the campus (within a 3-3.5 mile radius) with a pool and tennis courts, for in the neighborhood of $600-$650/month. Obviously you can spend more, but that would be very adequate.

Do the majority of MBA students live off campus?

The majority do. We probably have less than 15% living on campus.

Let's talk briefly about the kind of financial aid and scholarship Jones has to offer its students.

Well, unfortunately, for international students it's zero. Domestically, this past year, we gave 55% of the population, or about 70 students, an average of $5,100 per year. All of our aid, both need and merit, is granted in the form of scholarship. We don't have any stipends or assistantships. And probably 70% of the population is getting some form of financial aid or scholarship in total.

What's the average indebtedness of students at graduation?

I'd say it's about $24,500, which surprises me because it sounds low, but then again, our tuition is also relatively low.

Is the number of companies recruiting at Rice increasing? How many currently interview on the Jones campus?

Currently about 70 companies come to our campus to recruit, and we're involved in two job consortia -- one in Atlanta and the other in New York. The MBA Consortium in Atlanta takes place in November, and it's only for students pursuing full-time positions. We do that with a group of 14 other schools. We also attend an MBA Consortium in New York, which happens in January.

Are most of the companies recruiting at Rice regionally based?

I would say probably yes. We do have some students who want jobs outside the area. The bulk of students come here because they like Houston, they like the economy, and they like the international employment opportunities. Being located in the fourth-largest city in the country, there are a lot of jobs. So a lot of the students actually relocate here because of the opportunities available.

You mentioned that the average area salary is 8% above the national average. How does that relate to Jones MBA students?

Our students take home an average salary of $61,000. This year, it looks like it will move up to around $65,000 -- that's excluding bonuses. Bonuses are also on the increase from the employers.

Is there any industry segment that is better represented today by companies recruiting on campus?

Probably the energy industry has a wider distribution of companies today than it did a couple years ago. High-tech and consulting are also well represented.

Who are your toughest competitors?

I'd say the toughest is University of Texas at Austin, then some Middle Atlantic schools -- Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt. And then Kellogg [Northwestern] and Carnegie Mellon make an impact on us.

Would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

In general, I encourage applicants to visit the school campuses before they make their final decision on which offer to accept. They need to feel the culture, talk with students and faculty, as well as administrators. If that's a good fit, then they're making the right decision. The MBA is a big investment of time and money. I think they should pick the school where they can give and get the most. That's going to be the school that they're most comfortable with.

I'd also like to mention that we just recently introduced Web applications [through a partnership with Snap Technologies] that applicants can submit to us electronically. They will be operational this year, as of fall of 1998. We also introduced a floppy-disk application designed by our own office that applicants can fill out on their computers, format, print out, and then mail to us. Through these efforts, we're trying to become more user-friendly.

Richard Trask, thanks very much.