Mary, you have worked at several admissions offices thus far in your career -- at Duke, Pepperdine, and now Wake Forest. Can you draw any comparisons between your experiences at those different schools -- as far as the type of applicant and admissions process is concerned?

It's hard to draw any comparisons between my experience in admissions here at Wake Forest and Pepperdine because I worked for Pepperdine's evening executive program, a completely different situation. I worked at Duke's Fuqua School for two years, a much larger program than Babcock's, and I feel that both Fuqua and Babcock have excellent programs. I like working at Babcock because I like the small size: The intimacy here allows me to deal with each applicant as an individual instead of a number. I'm able to work through the application process with the applicant if they want feedback. Anyone who applies to Babcock has direct access to myself and the admissions staff at any time. Working at a larger program means you just don't have that opportunity.

Has the admissions process changed at all at Wake Forest since you've been there?

The admissions process has changed drastically. I've been here for five years, and over that time the demographic of the student pool has significantly changed. In 1992, we had 67% of the class coming with work experience. In this year's class, 87% have work experience. The GMAT average back in 1992 was about 590, and this year it's 615. So the whole pool of applicants has changed drastically. As far as the process goes, it's now much more competitive. We interview many more of the applicants. And, prospective students are doing a lot more research on schools that fit their specific needs. At the same time B-schools are trying to market themselves and trying to attract students that fit into the culture of the school.

What is Babcock's official application total for its Class of '99? Is it up or down from last year?

We had 610 applications, and that's a 15% increase from last year.

What's this year's class size?

There are 121 people in this year's class [of 1999], and our target was 110. We accepted 269 applicants, and our yield rate went up this year [to 45%], which was great.

Mary, you mentioned that the demographics of the Babcock class have been changing. According to our records from 1996, international students made up a scant 15% of the Babcock class, the lowest percentage in our Second 25 grouping. Has the school bolstered its efforts to cater to this sector of the population? What's this year's international class makeup?

This year's international class makeup is 21%, from 15 different countries. So not only has our international population increased but so has the diversity within that population.

What has the school done in order to increase its stature abroad?

We've attended all of the international forums in Asia and Europe -- in Hong Kong, Japan, and we just returned from Berlin, Milan, and Paris. We've also been participating in the MBA Events Tour of the European Capitals, a recruiting fair put together by European business schools and attended by 40 American schools and 45 European programs. It was very successful. Also, many of our current students have been taking our literature home with them during breaks to talk with their undergraduate schools and area companies about Wake Forest. That has been especially successful at the undergraduate level.

We try to make the transition to America and Babcock as smooth as possible for international students. On campus we have an international house that provides lodging for up to 11 international students. We also have a weeklong international orientation that we've been doing for about the last five years now where we go over cultural issues, case method studies, oral presentation skills, and things they may not have had prior exposure to.

Are you seeing the sharpest growth in applications coming from internationals?

Yes. I think all the schools are seeing a large increase in international applications. In fact, 40% of our application pool came from internationals -- a majority of those coming from China and India.

You alluded to one facet of Babcock's orientation. Let's delve a bit further. As I understand it, the school conducts open houses to give prospective students a chance to visit the campus, talk with students, and get a feel for the character of the school. When do these occur? Are they popular?

Yes, that's right. They're very popular and occur in January of each year. This year's will be held on Jan. 10. We usually have around 100 people attend it. This is our fourth one, and they've changed a lot based on the feedback we get back from attendees. Our open houses are an all-day event during which prospective students attend presentations on admissions, financial aid, the first-year curriculum, international programs. And this year we have a career concentration in the second year which we'll discuss. We also talk about our summer internship programs -- both overseas and domestic. You hear from career services and from different student groups as well. During lunch, attendees have a chance to talk with current students, faculty, and staff members.

I know that Babcock has a rolling admissions process. What are this year's application deadlines?

The first deadline is Dec. 1. After Apr. 1, it's based on space availability only.

Is there a separate deadline for scholarships?

If you're interested in financial aid, we suggest you get your application into us by Mar. 1 because the money runs out after that. We're now awarding 10 full scholarships through the Babcock Scholar's program, and those interested must apply by Feb. 20.

Historically, how quickly have the spots in Babcock's class tended to fill? In other words, I'm an applicant who's prone to a bit of procrastination. I want to apply to Wake Forest, but it's already late in the application process. What are my chances, based solely on the number of available spots?

That changes year to year. Last year, people who applied after Apr. 1 had no spaces left. My recommendation is to apply by Mar. 1 because it gets more competitive afterwards.

What are the different criteria assessed within the Babcock application packet?

The GMAT and TOEFL (Test Of English as a Foreign Language) scores; two letters of recommendation; transcripts from undergrad institutions; a completed application which gives us all the demographic information; a resume; three essay questions; and an interview that's not required but highly recommended.

Is there any one variable that you tend to attach more weight to?

There really isn't. We take a holistic look at all of it. When we review a file we evaluate it within the context of two questions: Is the applicant going to benefit substantially at Wake Forest? Will his or her managerial competence grow at Babcock? And the second question we ask is: How much will the applicant contribute to the learning environment? Everyone has to bring something to the classroom with them.

Is Babcock now using the Web as a way for applicants to fill out and return applications?

Yes. Applicants can download applications from our Web site, print it out, then mail it in. But they cannot electronically submit it at this time. We're looking at the pros and cons of doing that right now.

How do you evaluate the GMAT -- holistically, or in parts -- the AWA (Analytical Writing Assessment), quant, verbal?

Especially for internationals, we break it down into parts to look at the verbal, which we look at in concert with the TOEFL. We look at the quant when determining whether someone should be coming to the quant workshop held a week before the program starts. And we look at prior quant coursework in concert with the GMAT. For the individuals who have not done well in the quant area, the quant workshop really helps to refresh their skills.

You mentioned that Babcock's Class of '99 has an average GMAT score of 615. Has that been consistently rising each year? Do you have a tacit cutoff score in mind when looking at the GMAT?

It really depends on the applicant pool. This year, the middle-80% range in GMAT was 560-670. So you have 10% below and above that. But there's no specific cutoff score; applicants just have to be competitive with the pool.

Now that the GMAT has moved to a computerized format (CAT), I suspect that it will soon become commonplace for applicants to take the test several times. How do you assess the GMAT if the applicant has taken the test more than once?

We will take the highest of the test scores. When I look at an applicant and his GMAT score is below what is acceptable in the applicant pool, I will counsel him. And if they look good in every other area and the GMAT is their only weakness, I'll encourage them to retake the GMAT. Obviously they should do some prep work before they go retake it.

I understand that Babcock does not require a personal interview, but strongly recommends it. Can it give an applicant an advantage over another who hasn't interviewed?

Absolutely. An interview enables a candidate to present aspects of their background and personal development that are not articulated in the application. It gives the applicant the opportunity to sell his or her strengths. When a candidate comes for an interview, they'll also attend a class and have lunch with a first-year student, so it's a great way for a candidate to experience the life of a Babcock student. And we do get feedback from students as well. We ask students whether the applicant is a person they'd want in the program. Do they see them (the applicant) as a classmate? Student feedback gives me an idea of whether to encourage an applicant to improve parts of his or her application that are weak.

Basically, the interview helps us assess a candidate's interpersonal skills -- an important attribute for B-school admission and later, the job search. If I look at two applicants that are identical in every aspect of their files, but one has come in for the interview, I'll always take the known quantity.

How much weight does student feedback about an applicant carry with you?

A lot because applicants act differently around students and interviewers. It's a much more informal environment [with a peer]. And if a student review comes back that isn't that positive, it will just encourage me to look harder at an application.

How many people did the school interview for the Class of 99?

We interviewed 60% of the incoming class. We did a total of 254 interviews, and of that 254, 209 applied. So 82% that we interviewed applied to the program. Last year, 55% of the class that enrolled was interviewed.

Do all of the interviews happen on campus?

Either on campus or at MBA Forums. But we want applicants to come here to get a feel for the Babcock environment, get a feel for our new building, and meet faculty and students. You can read all of the MBA bulletins but really don't get much out of them -- everyone sounds alike. By visiting the program, you get a much deeper understanding of the offerings and opportunities available.

Who interviews?

Just the three of us on the admissions committee. This year I have the student government association president, a second-year student, helping us out. But I've really tried to avoid that because I think candidates really want to talk to an admissions officer when they interview. Let me emphasize that all of the interviews, whether they are conducted by myself, another admissions officer, or a student, hold the same weight. It's all a perception issue. I actually prefer to meet the candidates myself. I think that makes a big difference.

How can applicants best prepare themselves for the Babcock interview?

The first thing they should do is investigate the program thoroughly and take notes about what they have questions about or things they have an interest in. I think they should talk to alumni and find out about their experiences and how the Babcock MBA is enhancing their career. Also talk to current students and ask them why they chose to come to Babcock instead of other MBA programs.

Are Babcock interviews behavioral?

I think all interviews are both informational and behavioral. The things that admissions people need to think about is the students that they are admitting are also the ones that they want to see placed in the job market. Does the applicant have those interpersonal skills that'll make him or her successful in a teamwork classroom environment and also in the workplace?

How many essays are applicants required to answer in the Babcock app packet? Are there imposed word limits?

Three. There are word limits on two of the three essays. The first essay has no word limit and asks applicants to discuss the factors that have influenced their decision to pursue the MBA degree. Why did they decide to attend Wake Forest? How does an MBA from Wake Forest help them achieve their career goals. And the first essay tends to go about two pages.

The second question has a 500-word limit and asks: What do you consider to be the most important emerging trend or significant event in business, government, or society? Why?

The third essay is open-ended and limited to 250 words. It asks: What would you like the admissions staff to know about you that may not be apparent through the admissions materials?

Mary, you mentioned that Babcock requires two recommendations. What, ideally do you want to be able to get from the recommendation. Is there a preferable split that you'd like to see -- perhaps one filled out by a supervisor and the other by a professor?

For the people who have work experience, I really don't want them to get an academic recommendation. I'd rather they got the two from the professional arena. If they can't get one from a direct supervisor, they should get it from a former boss or client. It should be someone who has worked closely with the applicant, who understands their career aspirations and can provide some insight into their management potential.

Recommendations that give specific examples of strengths are: "He does this well, and this is an area in which it was demonstrated." So it's not just saying, "they do a task well," but give me an example of it.

What about for those who have little to no work experience? What type of recommendations are you looking for in that context?

They should get recommendations from faculty members in their undergrad institution or else from a manager they worked for during a co-op or summer internship. It's better to get one from each.

Babcock, unlike many of its peer schools, does not require work experience. In fact, in 1996, 20% of the student body didn't have any to speak of. Has the school started to emphasize work experience more?

Well, we've been improving the student body through a lockstep process. We want to improve the overall quality of the class as a whole but feel that it has to be done incrementally. We looked at the GMAT, GPA, and work experience of our students, and the first thing we focused on improving was the GMAT scores. Five years ago, in order to increase the score, we tended to take people with no work experience. As our reputation has grown, however, and our applicant pool has improved, we now have a pool where we can be more selective than we have been in the past. Our ultimate goal is to have 100% of the pool have high GMAT scores and a substantial amount of work experience. We're slowly making our way.

Do you allow accepted applicants to defer?

Yes. I would say about 9-10 defer a year, and it's usually due to work-related issues.

How many applicants are waitlisted?

Probably around 85-90 a year.

Did you utilize the waitlist this past year?

No we did not utilize the waitlist this year.

Is making the waitlist a good sign or does it just prolong the "agony"?

That is the one thing that I will not do: I will not do a sympathy waitlist. Only those that have the potential to do well in our program will be waitlisted. It's just a matter of rounding out the class. It's an art, not a science. In 1996 most of the people on the waitlist were eventually accepted, and that's a function of more people dropping out over the summer.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to re-apply?

It really depends on each individual applicant. If there are things in their file that can be improved, then by all means yes. If they have less work experience that we'd like, then I'll say, "go out and get some more work experience and then reapply." If their quant scores are a bit low, I'll say: "Go out and take statistics and economics classes and then reapply." Prove to me that you can be successful in the Babcock program.

What's this year's tuition?

$19,200, and that includes a laptop computer.

Has that changed from last year?

That's a $900 increase from last year. You'll probably see a 5% increase in tuition each year.

What kind of a laptop does Babcock give out to its students?

We give out IBM ThinkPads, whatever the latest model is. We'll wait until July to even order them so that they won't get replaced by something newer two weeks down the line.

What would you estimate the annual cost of living to be in the Winston-Salem (N.C.) area?

For room and board, it's about $5,600. The entire package, including insurance, personal expenses, books and supplies, and things like that is $31,800 for two years -- that includes the tuition. Winston-Salem is very inexpensive compared to a lot of other ciites. For a two-bedroom, two-bath place, it's around $550-$600 a month. And that adds up when you're choosing a program because living expenses are a huge part it.

You mentioned earlier the new Babcock Scholars program. What other kind of financial aid and scholarship does Babcock offer to its students?

There's all sorts of scholarships available. This year, 62% of the class have some form of scholarship, ranging from $2,000 to full tuition. And of course, they're eligible for all of the federally funded loan programs.

Some students have complained that Babcock relies on regional recruiters too much. Is the school's reputation expanding outside the North Carolina area?

Yes, it definitely is. We participate in the MBA Consortium comprised of 15 MBA programs that pool their students and recruiters together for two recruiting events each year. The first one happens in Atlanta in November, and is for full-time employment. And the second, focusing on summer internships, is held in January in New York. During these events, recruiters from all over the country come in and interview all of the students from the different schools at one time. So that really opens up many opportunties for employment outside of the North Carolina area.

Truthfully though, one of the problems we face as far as regional recruitment is concerned, is that once students get down here, they don't want to leave. Charlotte, for example, has a vibrant banking industry with such companies as NationsBank, First Union, and Wachovia (located in Winston-Salem). So there's a lot of opportunity for finance students to stay in the North Carolina area, where the cost of living is much less.

I guess one way to guage that is by whether the recruiter base has grown at all over the past year. Has it?

Yes, it has. In fact, through the Consortium, the likes of Intel, IBM, Price Waterhouse, Ford, BMW, and Bayer, to name a few, recruited Babcock students for the first time in 1997.

Who are your toughest competitors?

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Duke, University of Virginia, Vanderbilt, and Emory. Those are the biggest ones. They're mainly regional.

Would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

One thing I'd like everybody to know is that Babcock has made great strides over the past five years. We recently built a new state-of-the-art facility called the Worrell Professional Center. We've recruited leading faculty members from leading academic schools in the nation. Our student body profile has changed to include higher work experience, higher GMAT scores, and greater diversity. Our placement success was excellent: 97% were placed three months after graduation. And we've continued to build on the school's foundation of a highly integrated curriculum and personalized attention.

Over the next five years we plan to actively recruit new faculty members and expect to bring in seven new faculty members this year. We are also going to implement the 3-38 Plan, which effectively splits the class up into three sections of 38 students each. The smaller class size is designed to expand the MBA educational experience by offering more interaction and exchange of ideas with colleagues and professors. We'll have the smallest class size of any B-school in the nation starting in the fall of 1998. It's an incredible opportunity for students. Right now the class is split up into two sections of 60 students each.

As I mentioned earlier, we have an established reputation for our broad-based integrative curriculum during the first year of study. This year, we will be introducing a new selection of Career Concentrations during the second year which will enhance the students' options and provide them with the depth of knowledge necessary to excel in their first job after graduation. The Career Concentrations are basically five specialized tracks (in management consulting, entrepreneurship/family business, finance, marketing, and operations) that offer students increased options for gaining in-depth knowledge in their chosen areas of focus. For example, a student interested in finance will now be able to take the finance track, which offers much more coursework in that subject area. With the increased exposure to finance material, the student will now be more prepared to enter into the rigors of Wall Street. All of the Career concentrations were developed by alumni with input from representatives of Corporate America.

Mary, thanks for your insights today.