Hayden, I understand that you are relatively new to the director of admissions post at Owen, replacing Tami Fassinger. How long have you been at the post, and have you instituted any new wrinkles into the Owen application process since your appointment?

Yes, that's right. I've really just been appointed, and have been here for three weeks now. So I just started. As far as implementing some things, it's a little early, but I'm in the process of bringing online a new database. I'm looking at doing a study on the assessment of MBA candidates and what I'm thinking is that we want to be able to assess cognitive factors as well as hard data a little more thoroughly. In order to do that, we're doing a study to see what type of noncognitive variables there are.

There are three types of intelligence: There's the componential, which is the ability to use deductive reasoning to answer questions (used for something like the GMAT); the second is experiential, which is the ability to interpret information in changing contexts -- it can be described as "thinking on your feet," and tends to (show up in) people who interview well; and the third is contextual, which is the ability to adapt to changing environments -- this tends to be the type of person that "thinks outside of the box," and for example, is someone who is able to work the system (If a company doesn't recruit on campus, these people are able to still garner interviews by working the system to their advantage).

So then, you're not satisfied with the current evaluative model?

It's not a matter of not being satisfied. Instead, it's really trying to capture people that don't really test well. The GMAT is a good academic predictor of success, but there's that 10% that doesn't do well and we want to uncover those gems that don't do as well. For example, people who are entrepreneurs can be in that "diamond in the rough" category.

Hayden, you were previously the director of MBA admissions at Maryland Business School. How does Owen measure up to or differ from Maryland -- from the admissions standpoint?

Well, Maryland is a state school and Vanderbilt is private; they differ in the types of ways that they deliver products to people. The value ratio appears to be stacked in Maryland's favor as far as the low tuition is concerned. But at the same time, they (Maryland) attract great students. The students here are active and have that buzz -- which touches on that third type of intelligence, the contextual intelligence; they're willing to work the system for their school.

Much like Owen's top-25 brethren, the school's applications have been steadily rising over the past couple years, from from 896 in 1995 to roughly 1,300 this year. Why the rise? Can you point to any definitive indicators or changes that explain this upward trend?

Well, one is that there's been a rise in the industry at-large. Here specifically, a couple of things have changed. For instance, one drastic change here has been the move to a modular curriculum, which provides flexibility in choosing the type of study students want. They're now able to choose electives during the first year. And this really has changed the way that the curriculum is delivered. It has also forced the professors to look at what they're teaching and make their coursework more efficient.

When did Owen convert to a modular system?

We graduated the first class in the modular system last year (1996).

What has the feedback been like to this new curricular structuring?

Overwhelmingly positive. Students feel a lot better prepared because they're able to take a lot more electives in their areas of interest.

How big is this year's class?

There are 201 students in Owen's Class of 1999. And the program admitted 480, for a yield of 41.9%.

Has that yield changed at all from last year?

It's going lower. The yield was 53% in 1994-'95, and this year it's at 41.9%

What are this year's application deadlines?

There are three. The first deadline is scheduled for November 14, 1997, with a turnaround response slated for December 16, 1997. The second deadline will be on January 16, 1998, with responses mailed out by February 14, 1998. And the final application deadline is March 14, 1998, with notification received by April 15, 1998.

Will you accept applications after the final March deadline?

On a space-available basis.

Do you have an idea of how many seats or spots generally get filled each deadline?

That isn't calculated, but I can tell you that, knowing how cycles work, after the first deadline the class is usually 20% filled; in the second round, probably around 60% to 80% is filled. And then you're rounding out your class afterward.

What connotes a completed application? What are the different criteria assessed in the Owen application?

We look at a great number of things and they're fairly common. Let's see, there's the previous academic performance and activities; work expreience -- which is very important; two recommendations -- usually from an employer; an interview -- to get to know the applicant better; the GMAT; and two essays.

Having said that, which variables hold the most weight with you?

I'd say the top four variables in my mind -- in no particular order because it changes with each applicant -- are the interview, work experience, GPA, and professional achievement.

Do you evaluate the GMAT holistcally, or in parts (AWA [Analytical Writing Assessment], Quant, Verbal)?

We look at it both ways, holistically, and then if they're at the bottom of the bell curve or there's a weakness somewhere, we'll break it down. The AWA is also looked at. I look at people more closely if they score below a four on the AWA because I want to make sure that they are communicative. As far as components, I'll look at pieces if they fall below a 40%.

Many admissions directors have said that if an applicant has taken the GMAT multiple times that they tend to only look at the highest GMAT score. Do you work the same way?

I work the same way, the reason being that I feel that you can have a bad day; you never hear about people with a super day and scoring below their capabilities...

How heavily in your mind does the reputation and rigor of the applicant's undegrad institution weigh?

That's definitely a part of it because we're looking at the institution and difficulty of study. We're also looking at extracurricular activities. For instance, I once interviewed a fellow on a track scholarship who had a low GPA, and he had to explain that to be on a scholarship he had to race on the national level, requiring 8 to 9 hours of training a day. So, of course that changed the way I looked at the application. That's an extreme example, but one of the things I try to do is be as inclusive as possible when I look at applicants and bring them into the interview. A lot of it comes out of the wash in the interview.

I understand that the personal interview is a strong part of the evaluation process. What's the philosophy at Owen about the interview?

Basically we're looking to have students lay out their successes. For that reason we use the behavioral interview, meaning that we don't ask hypothetical questions during the session; we're looking for examples of what the applicant has done. To give you an example, I'll ask the candidate to give me an example of how they were unable to complete an assignment. Now, the worst answer that an applicant can say to me is that it has never happened .. because it has happened to everybody. So we're looking for people who want to be and do get challenged often and feel comfortable having others rely on them. We want to know how people work through those types of situations.

What's should applicants do to prepare themselves for the interview?

Well, the interviews are mandatory -- you can't get into Owen without being interviewed.

Can you suggest a healthy way for applicants to prepare?

I think you must really look back at your own success and be equipped with examples of those successes and be able to fit those into the interview session.

How long do the sessions usually last?

Mine usually last about 30 minutes, and that includes a Q&A about the program. We do so many inteviews that we have to keep them relatively brief. We interviewed 1,300 applicants this past year and our resources just don't allow us to have them go longer.

Who are the different people involved in Owen's interview panel?

The director and associate directors all interview (which encompasses four individuals), and this year I'm going to have five to six second-year students interview as well. There will be a pretty intensive training involved to bring them up to speed.

Are the interviews held on-campus only?

We do telephone interviews with people who can't come here. We also travel extensively to do interviews abroad and all over the country. We prefer to do them here at Vanderbilt because once they (applicants) see the facilities and talk with students, we feel that people who are right for the program are going to want to come here.

Which cities does Owen currently visit in order to interview?

Right now we're doing interviews in all of the MBA Forum cities (which, this year, comprise 16 different metropolitan areas. LA, New York, Philadelphia, and San Francisco are several sites where forums will be held during the fall).

Where internationally is Owen interviewing?

Right now I have somebody doing interviews in Buenos Aires, Argentina; Caracas, Venezuela; and Mexico City. One of the things I like about the school is that we have an international executive MBA program and ours is one of the few programs that is really focused on Latin America. They (the EMBA program) just brought in their first class of 22 last year (1996). So it's completely in its infancy. It's a partnership between Vanderbilt and the University of Florida (Warrington).

So, then I would surmise that Owen's MBA program is seeing an increase in its Latin American student body.

Absolutely, we're seeing a definitive increase. We travel on the MBA tour with a number of other schools and have seen a rise there. We actually go out and seek Asian students as well, specifically in Seoul, South Korea; Tokyo, Japan; and Jakarta, Indonesia

Do the telephone interviews differ markedly from those that are face-to-face?

They tend to be slightly shorter. You'll get more small talk in the face-to-face, office setting. But we ask the same questions. The only difference is that we don't see the body language, but we do the best that we can.

What do you ask, generally?

Were looking for peoples' ability to be communicative, creative, deal with adversity, provide leadership, and really stand out among their peers. We also look for focus. We want to know what and where they want to be in five years.

Do you ask applicants whether Owen is their first choice?

Yes we do. I definitely want to know that people are serious about coming to this program. But we want to know whether somebody is really focused on their career. For instance, if someone says they've applied to Harvard, MIT, and Vanderbilt, and they're from the Tennessee region, I know that they're "top 5 fishing," especially since you have schools like HBS and MIT that cater to the behavioral spectrum of learning, versus Vanderbilt that caters to the quant-side of learning. So I'll ask them why they chose the schools that they did and how they fit into the picture.

What do the essays get at? Have they changed at all since last year?

Well, I didn't write these, but what we're asking is why they would want to go to Owen. What brought them to the realization that Owen is the place for them? Then the second issue raised by the essays is what their contribution would be to the school.

Are there any word limits?

There's no word limit, but I like to read about 500 words total per essay. Basically, if somebody can't express a complete idea in 500 words then their writing skills aren't that good.

Now, you mentioned that the Owen application requests applicants to secure two recommendations?

That's right, and ideally I'd like the two to be filled-out by employers. Basically, I prefer them from employers that have a close supervisory access to the applicant.

Is it a strike against the applicant if neither of his or her recommenations are from a supervisor?

Having come from the Washington, D.C. area, I've seen some recommendations from senators, from President Reagan, and various big whigs around the world. What I normally recommend to folks is to think about two or three accomplishments that they think are significant and choose people who can evaluate those accomplishments because that usually tells me a lot more than the former President of the United States can. We're really trying to urge applicants to have people fill out their recommendations who can have a much more significant impact in informing us about who they (applicants) are. One of the things we'll be doing is mailing thank you letters to people who recommend. It is our hope that as long as the applicants know this, they'll go with people that actually know them better.

So, that said, is it inappropriate for a candidate to get a recommendation from a professor?

No not at all if that professor can really open up something about the person that wouldn't otherwise come about. I just tend to lean toward work experience. With an average work experience of 40 years, most professors don't remember students.

What's this year's range of work experience?

The average is about four years. There's no question that more helps, and what happens is that people that have the experience behind them are willing to question things that just don't make sense to them. Out-of-schoolers just don't have the confidence or the experience that's necessary to question those same things.

What can an applicant with little to no work experience do to bolster his or her chances of acceptance?

We do accept people without work experience, but it's just a handful. To be honest, with no work experience to show for yourself, you have to be stellar in every other area. In this particular program, we do have people that have been enrolled straight out of undergrad, but they tend to be people that were at the top of their class at whatever school that they went to. You can usually count them (number of people accepted with no work experience) on one hand.

Do you allow accepted applicants to defer?

Yes. For about a year. Things come up -- pregnancy, a sudden opportunity at work .. anything can happen, and we encourage that if it's the right decision.

About how many deferred last year?

36 out of 495.

How does Owen treat the waitlist?

A waitlisted candidate is someone who would be successful in the program but may not be on the same quantitative or qualitative level as the people who have been accepted. The reason the applicant looks at being waitlisted negatively is because they didn't get in. But the reality is that it should be viewed as a positive because we've already made the judgment that the person would be successful. The number of applicants Owen has accepted off of the waitlist really depends on the year. The last couple of years it has been just a handful.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to re-apply?

I don't encourage applicants who have been denied to reapply if they haven't changed anything. But I look for applicants to really make some changes as far as the quality of their application is concerned. One of the few things that you can actually do is retake the GMAT or garner another year in the workforce.

Do you provide counseling for rejected applicants?

Basically, I'll set aside 15 minutes for any denied applicant and give feedback. I'll have several days in the year to provide counseling. And they're pretty pleasant conversations. I want to make sure the applicants feels good about themselves. Previously at Maryland, one out of five made it into the program; so 80% that applied were sent away, and I have to deal with that. They understand that it's not the end of the world and that it certainly should not stop them from reapplying in the future if earning an MBA makes sense to them.

Hayden, can you shed any light on your experiences at Babson?

I'll be honest with you, MBA programs are better now than then. Underscored are the curricular innovations at all three of the schools that I've been a part of. Babson was the first progam I worked for, and watching that admissions process was the first experience I had. When I went through it as a student, it was basically 20 classes and you got your MBA. It's much more integrated and global now than it was back then. This industry has gone through a revolution in the past couple of years.

What innovations can you point to at Owen?

I think it all began when Marty Geisel became the dean here (in 1987). He reshaped the program to be much more customer-oriented. He was also able to attract top-notch faculty -- the type of professors with the ability to think globally and to be very much on the practical cutting edge. All of that is truly reflected in the program here.

Owen has a solid marketing department. What other areas of study do you feel put the school second-to-none?

Well, just from being a competitor of Vanderbilt's while at Maryland, I think that anybody that goes to the finance program here can compete with anybody around the nation.

What's this year's tuition?

$22,900 for the 1997/98 academic year.

What would you estimate the annual cost of living to be in Nashville or the surrounding area?

It looks to me to be about $10,000 for a single student.

What type of financial aid and scholarship help does Owen offer to offset that two-year price tag?

I would say 99% of our financial aid is merit-based and we do anything from partial scholarships to full-tuition scholarships. Someone with a full-tuition scholarship can also be a research or grad assistant and make money to live.

Can you throw-out a couple of specific scholarships available at Owen as well as maybe a range in award?

They range from $5,000 to full tuition. Some of those available include the Melinda Owen Bass Scholarship, the Ralph Owen Jr. Scholarship, and the Phillip Morris Scholarship. There are about 20 available in total. One is awarded to marketing students or those participating in marketing activities, and is called the HH Gregg Scholarship. So, they (scholarships) each have their own little idiosyncracies as far as requirements, eligibility, and the amount of money awarded is concerned.

Do you feel that Owen's location in Nashville is a boon or a hindrance? Many people tend to write off the amount of industry -- which is burgeoning -- located in Tennessee, and Nashville in particular. I would also presume that there are Northerners who may be a bit apprehensive about settling into the Southern culture?

Ten years ago it would have been a hindrance. If you're from the north and are worried about the industry down here, wait a couple of years, and then we'll get you down here. I came here from Washington D.C., and I like this area a lot better. I don't see the drawbacks here. There are one million people here -- so it's certainly not in the backwoods. As far as industry in concerned, it's very diverse; there is car manufacturing with Saturn, a huge healthcare industry, and the country music industry. The fact is that Owen students go all over the place, country, and world, and they're not necessarily tied to this region for placement.

Who are your toughest competitors?

Right now they are the University of Texas at Austin, Duke, and the University of Virginia. As far as application overlap is concerned, the percentages are so low that you can't say one school is a bigger threat than the other.

Would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

I just want to reiterate that for the study I mentioned in the beginning of our conversation, our goal is not just to get the best class, but also to unearth those gems that are hit by some of the other factors that we've been using for years: Personality, work/life experiences, etc. -- we look at all that. I've been the proudest in my career when bringing in a class with a great deal of diversity.

Hayden, thanks for talking with me today about the Owen admissions process, and best of luck in your new position.