First off, Carl, I understand that you have been recently appointed to your position. How has the transition been? Are you comfortable with your new duties?

Yes. There are really no surprises here. I have been associated with the Texas admissions process for almost six years, first as an assistant, then as an associate director. While I have been very close to the operations side, I've been enjoying the new role quite well.

Have you departed from some of the practices that Fran Forbes, the former director of admissions at UT, followed?

Yes, but only on the operational side. There have been no major changes as far as the type of student that the Texas program recruits. There have been some rather major changes that have been associated with my appointment. When I was appointed I was advised of the direction that the school wanted to go. A greater emphasis is now being put on the technology approach. One of the reputations that the school has here is that of a techno MBA. In the admissions office, we have been approaching state-of-the-art technology to provide people with both information about our program as well as a means of applying electronically.

Like most schools, we have a series of Web pages that define the specifics of what we have to offer. We make available an online application and also provide access to one of our contract vendors for people who are more comfortable working with a computer disk and avoiding work online. But we have to realize that Web technology still has its shortcomings, especially in the international setting, and there are people who truly like to taste, touch, and feel paper. So there are now three ways to apply: online, off of a computer disk, or through the traditional hardbound copy. My emphasis, however, is to move as far into the technology phase as possible to make the process the most efficient and cost effective it can be for everybody involved.

So you're now incorporating internet technology into UTexas's application process?

Yes. We've developed our own. I am aware of other companies that are now providing the same sort of Web functionality. Let's see, there's Snap Technologies, MBA Central, and I'm also aware of CollegeScape. The GMAC (Graduate Management Admissions Council), which is the umbrella organization that supports some of the service units in b-schools, is developing what you might refer to as a centralized, Web-based, integrated service-provider option. What they're doing is developing a centralized location where MBA students can go to and fill out an application for all of the schools that choose to participate. GMAC is also working on developing a similar function for financial aid and career services.

I've noticed, from the data in front of me, that UT's applications fell dramatically this year, from 3,361 for the Class of 1998 to 2,539 this year. Why do you feel that this has occurred? Is it because of the school's efforts to limit its pool? Or because last year may have been an outlier?

Probably two things: Last year was a nice outlier, but this year we account for the drop because of some intentional moves -- especially on the international side. We specifically did some prescreening of the international pool. We recognized the cost of the application fee as well as the difficulty of acquiring transcripts, and, as a service, we gave our international applicants the opportunity to fill out a preliminary form to inform us of their continued interest in the UT program. The inquiry response was a preliminary application form which was returned to us and evaluated. We sent a response back to the international pool saying we had recieved their materials and then either gave them the hard copy of the rest of the application if we wanted them to go ahead and apply, or we offered some suggestions and advice on what we feel they should do before applying. So that did indeed cause a very severe drop in the numbers and resulted in us having a very strong, qualified international class percentage.

Interestingly enough however, we will not be continuing that practice. We had a number of international applicants who were not satisfied with the preliminary application. They weren't sure that they were given enough of an opportunity to present themselves. So this year we'll give everybody the entire packet. I fully anticipate that our applicant pool will be 3,000-plus this year.

Carl, it sounds like you've been integrally involved in UT's admissions process over the past seven years. I'd like to know if you have identified any trends in what type of applicant is applying to UT's b-school program.

Well yes, I have noticed a trend. I have been associated with the program since 1990, and at that point the profile of the student in the program was quite different. At that point, the Texas program had a relationship with our corporate recruiters to where the product they (recruiters) were expecting to see out of the program was an entry-type manager. So we didn't require as much work experience. At that point, the majority of our class had less than a year's worth of work experience .. The average GMAT score was a 589 and the GPA was very close to a 3.0. Since then, it was in 1988 when the program had its first program director, and one of the charges that she had was to start ratcheting up the collective caliber of the pool. If we had tried to do this all at once, our corporate recruiters would not have been ready for the changed product -- we truly had to phase it in. So we chose to do it over a series of years to where when I've stepped in, I've had the benefit of Fran's (Fran Forbes, recently succeeded by Carl Harris, was the program's director for nine years) work. So this year's class is the strongest we've ever had.

How big is this year's class and how many people does the school need to admit to fill it?

Our Class of '99 has approximately 422 students broken down into three components: regular MBAs, joint degree MBAs, and some folks in our MPA (Masters of Professional Accounting) program that are associated with the MBA side. But the overall class is 422 and we were shooting for 420.

How does that 422 student population compare to last year's class?

This class is slightly smaller than last year's. I think last year's was 435.

What was the yield?

420 out of 2,539 would be 16.5%.

What types of efforts have you taken to cater to the international candidate? You touched on the preliminary application as a way of being cost efficient. Has the school focused on any other facets of its international recuiting efforts or created any new initiatives?

I'm not sure that we did anything special other than treat them (international applicants) and their unique needs as far as time constraints, giving them access to our rolling admission schedule. Our admissions process is sequential, so people who don't make our published deadlines still have competitive access. Like all schools, we publish deadlines because applicants like to see them.

But with the rolling admissions process we keep reviewing files until the class is full, and if we find attractive files, we'll either put them on the waitlist or, depending on the quality of the application, we will consider giving them for advanced admission for the following year. People who do this have strong characteristics as far as their GMAT, grades, and extracurriculars are concerned, but may only have two years of work experience. In that situation we might feel that an additional year of work experience would help before enrolling them into our program.

Well, while we're on the subject, what are this year's application deadlines?

For domestic applicants and permanent residents, the deadline is January 1, 1998; for everybody else it's February 1, 1998. We tend to have the bulk of our applicants in by then. And we tend to fill our class by usually about mid-April.

Do you have an idea of how many seats or spots generally get filled per deadline?

I'd say the class is usually about half committed by mid-March. And I'd say it's probably committed by the first of May. We tend to hold a small core of open seats for the late appliers that are of unique strength -- no more than 10. One of the characteristics of the rolling admissions process is that it is truly to the benefit of the applicants to get their file in early.

Okay, let's delve into the different variables in the UT application. What comprises a complete app?

There are five big pieces that we look for, and 20 specifics. Of the five big ones, two of them are quantitative in nature. Obviously there is the GMAT -- the great equlizer, the one unique thing that everybody (all schools) takes. The second of the two is what we refer to as the"admissions GPA," and that is a reflection of the applicants' undergrad academic strengths. It is computed by taking their prior transcript(s) and pulling out from them all of the upper division courses that they had attended (junior- and senior-year work, usually). We pull them all out and recalculate the GPA. And that is the competitive number that is reviewed by the admissions committee and by myself when it finally gets to the director.

Then there are the three qualitative measures. The first includes the resume and the pool of data that can be put in the resume. In addition to the academic transcripts, from the resume, you should be able to pull off what the individual took (what coursework they enrolled in, what they graduated with, etc.), when, and where. I also look for things like career path. Where have you been employed? How long were you employed in which position? Does your employment pathway show a particular trend? Does your resume indicate any honors or awards? What kind of technical computer skills to you have? Do you have any international interests -- either in jobs or expressed interest? Multilingual abilities? And then other things such as undergraduate extracurricular activities. But probably, with the people that we deal with, we look for civic involvement. A well-crafted resume goes a long way. I've seen some good ones and some bad ones that are very formulaic and rapidly cobbled together.

Then we move into the essay questions. At Texas there are three essays that are specific about what they ask for. But truly there are only two essays -- the third one is for those candidates who have something that they feel that we should hear about that they could not find a comfortable way to insert in the first two essay questions. Something new that we have done this year is provide a little message in the app materials about the application process explaining the things that we look for. On the actual essay questions we specifically remind the applicant to insert references to their background. It's one of those things that I have always wanted to do for the student.

The last qualitative variable is the letter of recommendation, and we ask for two. Like most programs, we are impressed by titles like anybody else -- but only minimally so. I would much prefer to receive a letter of recommendation from a current or recent employer that can talk definitively about the candidates' strengths, abilities, capabilities and aspirations, rather than receive a rec from their U.S. Senator that has three lines saying: "Yes I've known the candidate's family for years and I'm confident about such and such's abilities ..."

Of the two letters of recommendation, we're looking for responses in two particular areas. The bottom line is for one of them, we're looking for a response to the notion of: If we let you in, will you survive? So if the applicant has a continuing relationship with a faculty member, that would be nice. And if not, they could somewhat coach a supervisor to show their progression. A recommendation should unearth the candidate's intellectual hunger and ability to adapt to new situtations. So, if we can get one perspective that answers the "will you survive" question, we'd like the other perspective that answers the "after having graduated, will you make us look good -- will you be a lifelong connection?" I hope that they would be a pleasant alum that would portray us well througout the course of their lives.

Can you prioritize these variables in order of importance? In other words, is the first thing you look at the GMAT?

Yes. I'd say the quant measurements are what we look at primarily because they, for us, are the two most visible predictors of academic success -- both the GPA and GMAT answer that question. You can be a great person, but if you are unsuccessful in those two areas, then you probably will struggle throughout the program. If a candidate does up to par on the quant measurements, then we go onto the qualitative measures that demonstrate "fit."

Do you evaluate the GMAT holisitcally, or in parts (AWA, Analytical Writing Assessment, Quant, Verbal)?

Our first assessment is holistic. We only go into either the quant or verbal analysis depending upon the potential concerns we might have with the rest of the packet of the application. For example, for the international applicant whose writing skills in the essay might slip, and whose TOEFL [Test of English as a Foreign Language] is not as strong as we might like, I'll look at the verbal GMAT score. The quant is pretty much related to the total. But I'd say that for the vast majority, I look at the total.

Do you weigh the second or third GMAT score as heavily as the first if the applicant has taken the test more than once?

No. At Texas we look at only the highest score and we do not average scores. The GMAT is something that, for us, is quite important. But partially because the Texas program does not provide the option within the admissions process for a personal interview, we have to be very careful with the other components and the weight that we give them. The GPA you've earned. The GMAT score you've earned as well, however, you might have been sick, had a flat tire on the way to the test center, or whatever ... so, I have to take that into consideration.

How heavily in your mind does an applicant's undegraduate institution weigh?

It is a piece of the puzzle. And it also gives us a frame of reference for the overall competitive GPA. But we do not rank our applicants by the feeder school. It is there, but it's not a driving concern to us.

Interviews at your school are not required -- do you recommend them, though?

It's kind of an unusual position that we're in. We actively encourage folks to come in and meet with us, meet with an academic advisor, visit the school, talk with faculty. We want applicants to be comfortable about what we have to offer. But there is nothing in the admissions decision process that allows for admissions interview input. So it's totally informal. Does Texas have something that you need? Are you compatible with us? It's truly the same type of interchange that you might find in a formal interview but it is initiated by the applicant, not by the school.

So the interview is totally informal? There's no written interview assessment report that you can refer to later when evaluating the file?

There is a sheet entitled "admissions visit," we do have that. And they are available to the admissions comittee. But they are used just as a way to inform us that the person had an interiview -- they are not used as a formal decision point. In the absence of a required formal interview, they really just represent a written record that says that the candidate is directly involved in the application process.

You mentioned that UT students, when you first arrived on the scene in 1990, had an average of just one year's worth of professional work experience. What's this year's range of work experience?

I'd say the class that just came in has a minumum of two years. In the fall of '93, when the Texas program was being reevaluated, one of the redesigns that the faculty included were instructions to the admissions unit to not admit anyone with less than two years of full time professional work experience.

Is there any exception to that rule?

The only exception would be on how flexible we choose to get in defining equivalency. There are reasons why we expect the equivalent of two years. There's truly nothing magical about two years, but there are some assumptions that you can make about some skill areas that two years represents. We want that prior work experience because we feel it develops and fine tunes interpersonal skills, problem solving logic, conflict resolution, creativity, and staff supervisory responsibilities. What I'm mostly concerned about is: What did you learn and what kind of skills did you bring that can contribute to our structure within the classroom?

Well, from what I've read, and now, from what you're telling me, it sounds like UT is now placing a lot more emphasis on the quality of its applicants' work experience -- to the point that it may weigh as heavily as the GMAT score. Your thoughts on this?

Yes I would agree. It is definitely equivalent to and again driven not so much to what we want candidates bringing with them in the mix, but also, in the absence of a formal interview, it is that work experience as described in the essays that helps us determine how compatible they are with the Texas profile.

What can an applicant with little to no work experience do to bolster his or her chances of acceptance?

Apply again in two years. There's nothing you can do. We will not admit you with less than two years. And people will say, "but what about my summer employment?" Well, three months is not two years. And what about cooperative experiences while the applicant was an undergrad? That still doesn't equate to the equivalent of full-time work experience.

Do you allow accepted applicants to defer?

Yes. At this point in time, we're pretty liberal with that. If somebody applies, gets accepted, and then asks for a one-year deferral, we will provide that.

No questions asked?

We'll ask, but we'll let you go if you tell us.

How many people do you think defered this past year?

Probably just a shade over 100 people. Of that, I'm expecting about a 30% return rate. So, while that number on the surface seems high, many decide to change their minds for whatever the reason.

Does Texas utilize a wait list?

Yes we do.

How many applicants are waitlisted?

About 160.

And about how many are taken-off?

None. We haven't taken anybody off of our wait list for about three years.

That's not a bad percentage!

Well we're pleased with it. Texas does not have an acceptance fee. Many schools say, "send us a $300 to $400 deposit for a seat." So it's a different financial challenge. We're proud that we have been able to project and anticipate who's going to come and who isn't.

Texas has been known to be a top-quality b-school bargain, with a relatively affordable tuition that is among the lowest in our top 25 grouping. What's this year's tuition for in and out-of-staters?

During our first year, you're expected to complete 30 hours, and that would be $3,060/year for in-staters, and about $12,360/year for out-of-staters. So multiply that package by two for the total package, and you'll have around $6,120 for in-staters, and $24,720 for out-of-staters.

What would you estimate the annual cost of living to be in Austin or the surrounding area?

One year's worth of life at UT, including food, lodging, telephone, and electricity for the average single student, would be just under $5,000 a semester, and about $9,500 annually. We're fortunate that Austin is as livable as the Texas tuition is.

Does UT offer financial aid and scholarships?

It does, but it's almost nonexistent for the first-year student. We are a public school, so because of our "bargain efficiency," we have always concentrated all of our scholarship availability to second years. It is based on two criteria: Performance during the first year, and secondarily, their financial need. First-year students have the option of applying for all of the loans and corporate or organizational awards that they choose to pursue. In-house scholarships, however, go to second years. We use them more as a retention tool rather than a recruitment instrument. All of these details are on our website (www.bus.utexas.edu).

Can you give me a range in scholarship awards offered to second-years at UT?

Unfortunately, I can't give you a range. I can, however, answer your question in terms of the financial indebtedness of our graduating student population -- and we have a 98% graduation rate. Roughly 80% of the students that graduate from our program have taken out some type of a loan -- this is not scholarship. And the average amount of indebtedness is only $14,382. That's among the lowest around.

I understand that Ramesh Rao was appointed the new dean of graduate programs this past year, replacing Victor Arnold. What are Ramesh's chief initiatives?

He came on on June 1, and he was the one that offered me my position; we came on together.

His initiatives reflect changes organizationally. In the past, the organization of the grad school had been academically driven by departmental settings. We have five major departments: accounting, marketing, finance, management, and MSIS (Management Science and Information Systems). His arrival has ushered in a new approach, at least for Texas, and instead of being driven by academic structure, it's being driven by program structure. Prior to his arrival, we were called the Graduate Student Services Office. Since his appointment, we've changed our name to the Office of the Graduate Business Dean. And, our emphasis is no longer keyed as being a service provider, but we're also being involved in the program itself.

There are three major initiatives that Rao and the whole business school are focusing on to take advantage of our strengths and capitalize on them as we move forward into the future. The first area is our programatic center of excellence; we're capitalizing upon our current and growing reputation in the techno MBA arena. We are going to be increasing that into the information management arena. The second area is our global collaboration -- making sure that we retain our global awareness, but also extend our programatic links to our worldwide partners. We are also emphasizing our global outreach to Central and South America, as well as Mexico. And the last area that we are focusing on is entrepreneurship. Those are the three populations that we now serve the best and will continue to serve in the future.

For Business Week's 1996 rankings, UT was among several schools most often added by recruiters (to the list of schools they visit). Are the companies that recruit at Texas continuing to grow? Which industries are you seeing the most growth in?

We refer to ourselves as the Hill Country. And just as there's a Sillicon Valley in California and a Silicon Alley in New York, we call ourselves the Silicon Hills. The most visible indicator of the surrounding area's strength in technology is Samsung's recent arrival, and the scope of their commitment to Austin. They have just completed a new chip-making plant at a cost of $1.3 billion. That, to us, is a massive indicator of their commitment and acknowledgment of what we have to offer here in the Central Texas region.

As far as companies coming to us, this past year we had 375 companies literally coming on campus to interview. Two new recruiters that started visiting our campus last year are the Baan Institute and Cisco Systems.

To finish up, Carl, who do you feel are UT's toughest competitors?

I would say all of the California schools, which, of course, is the UC system (for business education, that would primarily include UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UC Irvine, and UCLA), as well as Stanford, UNC Chapel-Hill, Duke, and Michigan. Our biggest competitor, of course, is everybody that joins us in the top-20 rankings. But our secondary competitors are the other public schools. We have a public function to perform.

Do Rice or any of the other Texas business programs factor in at all?

Rice fits into that, just as SMU and Texas A&M fit in.

Carl, thanks for speaking with me about UT's Graduate School of Business this morning.