First off Robert, do you think the MBA degree is becoming more popular?

I think it is right now. I have been doing admissions for six years at Florida, Tuck, and now Fuqua. Labor Day is my one-year anniversary at Fuqua. To me, it [the MBA degree] is heating up to the point it was when I was applying to grad schools in the late '80s. My personal feeling is that it is largely tied to the strength of the economy. That was the big tie in with the late '80s, and we're seeing it again now.

You've worked in graduate admissions at several different institutions. Can you describe some differences in the application and admissions processes at Fuqua, Tuck, and Florida?

I think Florida is the easiest place to the start. It is a very different part of the market. We [U. Florida] were at the bottom of the top 30 MBA programs. The level of savvy of the applicants was not really as high as at Fuqua or Tuck .. there was a much more regional student body. Our biggest issue was to try and fill the class. Both at Tuck and Fuqua, the problem we faced was an overabundance of applications and how we select and enroll the best [applicants].

I think the admissions process is not radically different. I think people [admissions committees] weight different values differently, however. For instance, one school might be pushing leadership, another may be putting more emphasis on sheer intellectual brainpower, and another may be placing more emphasis on applicants' history of calculated risks. At Fuqua, what we are very concerned with is finding people that are focused on what we call the "other focus." And that can be defined as a history of being concerned and demonstrating that concern for other people other than just yourself, whether it is a nonprofit group that you may volunteer for, or whether it is improving the company or organization that you are employed by. Fuqua is a very team-driven culture. We think that is one of the most important attributes in our environment -- beyond having the academic experience.

Have you noticed any trends or differences between what the application process or the type of applicant is like now at Fuqua vs. at Tuck a few years back? Do you think the differences are the result of the school's efforts or the effects of time?

I was at Tuck for 2 1/2 years prior to coming to Fuqua. It would have been from 1994 - 1996. Very definitely, Tuck appeals very heavily to people coming out of the Wall Street/bank analyst programs, the types of students who have been on two-to-three-year tracks at major consulting firms. When I was there, we did not have the breadth in work experience that Fuqua does today .. in other words we didn't have a lot of operations or entrepreneur types. It was fairly situated around Wall Street. Fuqua does not have a major profession that comprises a majority of our applicant pool. For reasons that Tuck can't help, its pool tends to be less geographically and ethnically diverse. So they work much harder, and that's one thing that Sally Jaeger [Tuck's admissions director] has been doing a great job at.

Fuqua, like many other schools that it competes with, has been showing a steady rise in applications over the past several years -- from 1,985 in 1993 to roughly 3,060 this year. To what do you attribute this?

Well, we actually finished right at 3,100 this year. Over that time span I think it's a combination of the economic recovery of the U.S., making this a more attractive option for a lot of people. I think Fuqua, specifically, has done a very good job of spreading brand awareness. I think we have done a good job of building pipeline programs. A perfect example is our Minority Workshop that is designed to help high-potential minority students learn what business school is all about and how the application process works. Ideally it increases the minority presence at Fuqua, but more importantly, it increases the minority makeup at the top-tier schools in general.

How big is this year's class and how many people did the school need to admit to fill it?

This year's class is 332 people, two over target. We admitted 576 people, a 57% - 58% yield for us.

Fuqua does not have a part-time program, right? Only full-time MBA's need apply?

That is correct.

Do you have a long distance program?

We have two different other degree programs,. One is a weekend executive MBA program called WEMBA that follows the daytime curriculum, but meets on Fridays and Saturdays. Then we have GEMBA, the Global Executive MBA, which is an Internet-based program. However, it is not what most people think of when they think of distance learning. It's not an electronic course. They meet at five different capitals, worldwide throughout the program. It's certainly not something that one can do unless your company is extremely supportive (for a 19-month curriculum, the program costs $82,000). It tends to be targeted toward middle-level and upper/middle-level managers. GEMBA just started its second class, and brings in 45 people a class.

I understand that Fuqua's MBA curriculum is broken up into six-week terms. Is this unique? Do any other schools participate in this type of term structure to the best of your knowledge?

No, they don't. And it's a combination of one week ILEs, or Intensive Learning Experiences, and academic coursework. There is a one-week ILE, and then six weeks of academic classes. The ILEs aren't really credited, they're requirements. The academic credits only come from the more traditional, academic courses.

The traditional, academic coursework is six weeks, and then the ILE's are one week, and that rounds out our academic year to the same time length as the more traditional b-school curriculums out there.

So it's almost like the ILE is a mini-January term that some colleges have.

Right, it's just more abbreviated. Topics vary. The first one that the entering class is in right now focuses on teamwork, leadership, and interpersonal communication. It is structured to introduce you to the next academic standard that you'll be experiencing. They [ILEs] bring in a variety of faculty from academic areas, as well as a variety of folks from the corporate world. You may have a case study, a computer simulation, role-playing exercise, and a field-consulting project all rolled in to one ILE.

Fuqua accepted nearly 17% of its applicants into the program last year. Has that changed at all?

It's just slighly over that percentage, maybe 17.2%.

Robert, I understand that you are a frequent speaker on admissions and diversity issues for various national groups. Before we talk about what types of programs Fuqua has that promote diversity, could you first define it?

To me it is a much broader definition than is traditionally used. I think the basic definition that most people think of is ethnic status, gender, maybe citizenship if they're really being creative. I think it's important for the business and corporate world to embrace more of a broad status, and include issues as physical ability, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, and any number of things that differentiate people from each other .. religious beliefs.

How do you, as Fuqua's director of admissions, ensure diverse class enrollment? Do you keep a tacit quota in your head when evaluating what type of class Fuqua wants?

I think it's the responsibility of the director of admissions at the business school to set the correct tone on that issue -- including making sure that your printed marketing material makes anyone who reads it feel welcome. If I have minorities reading it, I want them to know that they can be comfortable and successful in the environment. If they're (prospective applicants) at a different phsyical level, I want them to read the brochure and material and find that the school is responsive to their challenges. It is our responsibility to use the correct language, so that we're not excluding anyone from what we say. Applicants can't be evaluated based on one role and one model.

I would say we want as diverse a class as possible and the reason for that is every member of my class is going into a working world that will be more diverse each year of their career. If you don't learn in b-school how to manage and be managed by a variety of people, you will have a hard time throughout your career.

So, does geography ever play a part in your selection process, as far as diversity in concerned. In other words, does an applicant from Alaska have an advantage over an applicant from North Carolina?

No, not at all. If they're doing some really neat things in Alaska, then it might. If, say they're involved in the energy or in the import-export industry that would make their experience more interesting and beneficial to their classmates, then I would consider that. Admissions decisions rarely pivot on one specific attribute. People applying to business school typically have not spent their lives in just one place. The chance of me finding someone who was born, raised, and worked only in North Carolina is very remote. And that would be a negative because their portfolio of experiences is more narrow. A broader portfolio of experiences is more alluring and healthy for classroom discussion. Someone who is not afraid to be mobile when it is beneficial to them, is not afraid to take chances in life. That is something that attracts me.

In 1996, just 19% of Fuqua's total student body was comprised of non-U.S. enrollment, among the lowest in our top 25 group ...

Well, first, when Tuck reports its international numbers, they include permanent residents in the U.S. I'm talking about, for example, a person born in Japan, but who now has permanent visa status in the U.S . Fuqua would not. Fuqua would list them as a permanent resident. And Tuck is not the only school that does this.

Is the school taking any steps to bolster its international student enrollment?

I think we've done it in spades. Our international student body is comprised of 28% international citizens, 2% permanent residents, and 2% dual-citizenship. That gives us a total of 32% international enrollment for the first-year class. No country has more than eight people in the class, which is different from other schools that will typically have one country make up a very significant percentage of their international student body. At one point it (the country with the greatest representation at b-schools in general) was Japan, now it's China.

It goes back to the pipeline programs. We began -- in Latin American five years ago, and three years ago in Southeast Asia -- a lot of educational advising services to help educate people about the benefits of Fuqua. And every year we've been seeing increases in the quality in applicants from those parts of the world. This year, we also saw an increase in number of foreign applications, which allowed us to accept more international students. These are year-round outreach initiatives that we have been doing consistently for the last four years.

How about minorities and women? Can you give me some numbers as to the number the program usually admits?

The minority number .. the first-year class is 10% Asian American, which is double last year's amount, 9% African American, 2% American Hispanic (of Puerto Rican, Cuban, or Mexican origin), and 1% Native American. And we are doing our darndest to at least get the Hispanics that we admit to consider us [Fuqua] a bit more strongly than they currently do.

How about women?

We're up to 33% in this year's class.

Do you feel that there are fewer minorites -- percentage wise -- in today's Fuqua class than, say, 10 years ago? And remember, I'm not including Asian Americans in that minority segment.

I think at some schools it makes more sense to include Asian Americans (in minority enrollment figures) than at others. For example, in North Carolina, Asians are an under-represented segment of the population. That's not true in other parts of the U.S.

Let's focus on African-Americans then. Do you feel that African-Americans comprise a smaller percentage of Fuqua's class today than they did 10 years back?

In 1983, for instance, which is the last year back that I have data for, Fuqua had a total of 35 African American applicants (as opposed to 1997 where 9% of the total 332 is roughly 30 people).

And keep in mind that the quality of the applicant pool was radically different than it is today. We had to admit 72% of our applicants that year and our yield was only 32%. The average GMAT was 560, a full 100 points lower than it is today. The average age was 23.5 years. So the caliber of students (back then) would not be competitive today.

So, there is a dual challenge of not only increasing the diversity of the applicant pool, but also increasing the quality of all the groups in the applicant pool. Nothing will get a school in more trouble than if any one group is not at the same level of competence in the classroom.

What are this year's application deadlines?

We have five this year instead of four. We work in rounds, not rolling admissions. The first deadline is November 3, 1997. The second is December 8, 1997. Then it's January 21, 1998. March 6, 1998. And lastly, April 20, 1998. And we do accept applications after the last deadline, but it is on a space-avaliable basis.

Do you have an idea of how many seats or spots generally get filled per deadline?

This year I wouldn't forecast it out because we went from 4 to 5 deadlines. And last year, we moved to deadlines [from rolling admissions], so there's not a lot of history to forecast that out. It is, however, to an applicant's advantage to come in during the first half of the process.

What are the variables that a candidate must submit for his or her application to be deemed complete? What are the different variables that are assessed?

Transcripts from all academic coursework going back to the undergraduate career, the GMAT score report, a TOEFL score report [if you are an international student], two letters of recommendation, five essays or personal statements, and the basic information sheets (resume, background, etc).

Can you prioritize these? In other words, what's the first thing you look at when evaluating a candidate?

It really varies from app to app. We really look at three primary areas, and different parts of application can contribute to those areas. The areas include: "history of academic excellence," "history of professional excellence and accomplishment," and a broad category that we call "other," which is the applicants' penchant for risk-taking, their interpersonal skills, leadership, and other special talents and abilities.

What tends to set admitted students apart from those who have excellent credentials but don't get an offer?

I think a couple of things do that sound amazingly fundamental and so many people miss them. You need to be able to very clearly articulate to the admissions committee about why you want an MBA, and that needs to be based upon your past professional and personal history. You should also clearly articulate why you need an MBA from the specific school that you're applying to. Clearly a Fuqua MBA is different than an HBS (Harvard Business School) degree. An incredible number of very gifted people just don't make the case for needing the degree.

Has the average GMAT score been rising at Fuqua?

Yes. This year our average is 660 for the enrolled class with a median of 670. Last year it was 645 with a median of 650.

That seems to be the trend. But do you feel that some schools inflate their numbers?

I know that there are schools that report different combinations of enrolled students. For instance, they might report only those people that the admission people voted to admit, and might not report those that were admitted by the dean of the school. And at some places this is a fairly notable percentage. And those applicants that are admitted through that mechanism tend to have lower stats, or they would have gone directly through the admissions committee. There are some people who pull out their U.S. minority applicants. One thing that Wharton's Bob Alig has been doing is publish the GMAT scores of both the domestic and international students at the school. And I think that is commendable.

How much weight does the GMAT carry for an application?

The schools I have worked at, what we are looking for is the ability to do the academic work without becoming seriously stressed out by it. That may come primarily from transcripts or GMAT scores. Typically it may be a combination of both. So the GMAT does matter but we have a fairly large range of scores.

Do you weight the second or third GMAT score as heavily as the first?

We only look at the highest score.

Will you be mindful of the fact that this year's applicants are taking the computerized GMAT for the first time, and that the change in the medium may negatively affect scores? In other words, for this next year's applicant pool, are you going to be evaluating the GMAT a bit differently due to the change in format?

Well, last year, for both October and January, a random sample of applicants were invited to take both versions of the test (the written and the computerized), and only their highest scores were reported to the schools. Their data shows that the tests were very comparable. I have already evaluated applications with the computerized GMAT. The ETS [Educational Testing Service] shows that there is not a significant difference.

How much of a factor does an applicant's undergrad school performance play when you evaluate them?

It plays some factor, but it also depends on where you are coming from. If you're a first-generation college student, getting into a second-tier school is probably a bigger accomplishment than someone going to an Ivy League from a family of Ivy Leaguers. So yes, it does matter, but the foundation that it's coming from plays more of a part. I would expect a high GPA from someone who went to an easier school.

Are interviews at your school required?

No, they're not required. However, they are encouraged. We primarily interview on campus. We do do alumni interviews internationally and staff are now interviewing on the West Coast of the U.S.

How long do the interviews typically last?

Thirty minutes to an hour, typically. But the length of time is no reflection of the strength of the interview. You can know everything you need to know in a half-hour and, in other situations, can still be trying after one hour to get a good sense of what the candidate is all about.

Can you give me an idea of how important the interview is to you?

It shows fit with the school's culture. It also gives applicants a chance to address personally what they might feel are the rough spots in their application. If you committed a lot of (academic) sins during your undergrad years, but there were legitimate reasons for why, the interview gives a face-to-face platform to explain that. The same thing .. if you feel that your interpersonal skills are one of the strongest parts of your application portfolio, then get with the school and sell that quality.

Is the applicant placed at a disadvantage if he or she can't schedule an interview?

No. Demand for inteviews is so high that we can't even come close to accommodating all of the requests. Most schools (Fuqua and most peer schools) practice the 'if a committee feels like it needs to speak with you, they will find a way for a representative of the school to meet with you' idea.

What's should applicants do to prepare themselves for the interview?

Actually, the same things you do for a job interview: Anticipate questions and prepare proper answers. I don't want stock answers, but you should know that the school is going to ask about your professional achievement, and you should prepare four examples to answer that. If there are questions having to do with leadership, you should prepare four examples about what your leadership style is and why it works for you. You should anticipate questions about why you want an MBA. And you should have an answer about why an MBA seems relevant to you as opposed to an M.D. or a policy degree.

The key is to listen to the question that the interviewer is asking. That's also a key to writing essays: not taking a stock answer and cramming it into someone else's professional life. Because the questions are really going to be emphasizing other things, and you shoot yourself in the foot by doing to much editing and pasting and not enough rewriting.

Is it hurtful to a candidate's chances to not follow up the interview with a thank you note?

It does not matter. I have only worked with one admissions reader ever who that found that a problem, and they were loudly shouted down by other members of that admissions committee. A thank you note is nice but the bottom line is that your thank you note is not going to reach the person that interviewed you.

On to the essays. How many are there?

There are five at Fuqua this year.

Have they changed significantly over time?

They have changed significantly. We have tried to ask more questions with shorter responses that we think will give applicants a better platform to better sell themselves. All of the questions are new this year. For instance, (one of them reads): 'Discuss the most significant personal or professional risk that you've taken. What was the outcome? How did this change you as person?'

There is a word limit on all of our questions. That question is allowed to be a one page answer (approximately 400 words). Keep in mind with respect to word limits, if you go over a little, the admissions committee is not going to shoot you. If you go 2 - 3 pages over, though, you're probably going to dilute the information you're presenting. So you should try to stick to the limit, but it's not the kiss of death as long as the reader doesn't get tired of what you're writing.

What mistakes do people commonly make in essays?

Everything from inserting the wrong school name -- I actually had a letter cross my desk that requested feedback on the applicant's Kellogg application! He was definitely mortified when I called him to tell him of the mistake.

Does a blunder like that put that candidate out of luck?

He is not out of luck. Heavens no! It clearly does not make the best impression with his ability to pay attention to detail, but at same time, we're not naive enough to think that you're only applying to one school. You're stupid if you don't (apply to several schools). Let me see, other common mistakes .. spelling mistakes, sentence fragments, rambling. Rambling is bad. It's not the kiss of death though. Another fundamental problem is not answering the question that's asked. Many applications, for example, have a question that goes something like: 'What kinds of things do you enjoy doing during your free time?' But they all have twists. So there's a huge temptation for the applicant to cut and paste his or her answer, and you shoot yourself in the foot because you're not supplying the proper info.

Another one that makes me feel sorry for many an applicant is you should not try and cram yourself into the MBA mold. You should put yourself down with all of your bumps and warts, and stand out with contributions that nobody else has. My colleague, Marie Mookini, the director of admissions at Stanford Business School, I think has summed it up the best in one line: 'Your application needs to tell a story, but it needs to tell a story that only you can tell.' And that is the most profound piece of advice that I've heard a colleague provide.

How many recommendations do you require?

Two.

What constitutes a red flag, besides the obvious?

The way people write about you is very, very telling. Do they seem to use very carefully chosen words? Do they write about you less than personally? Are they writing very stock lines that they would use for anyone or are they writing about you as a person who has clearly contributed to their organization? The second kind, where the recommendation is clearly positive, has a big effect on our evaluation.

What if the recommendation comes across as overly gushing? Does that hurt the candidate at all?

As long as it comes across as being sincere. Andersen Consulting and the U.S. Military representatives have sent in recommendations saying this person is 'the best systems analyst I have ever worked with.' Well, this is clearly not true when I've read the same recommender say the same thing five times this year. But clearly if specifics are provided, then that makes a definite impact.

Our statistics show that Fuqua students have, on average, about four years worth of work experience. Is this the ideal amount you're looking for?

It's up to 4.5 for the incoming class.

What can an applicant with little to no work experience do to bolster his or her chances of acceptance? What types of things would offset that shortcoming?

What we are looking for largely in professional experience is that you have a level of managerial experience both of people and of projects and resources to be able to contribute to a classroom discussion. At a major business school, half of what you learn is from class, not teachers. So we want to make sure that everyone can contribute. Someone with no professional experience needs to demonstrate what they have to offset that -- whether it be volunteer experience or summer experience where they've had that kind of responsibility. Quite honestly, it is a tough sell, but not an impossible one.

Do you accept, or have you accepted people into your program without any work experience? Does Duke undergrad, for example, have some type of 3 - 2 program or the like, where undergraduates participate in parts of the Fuqua curriculum?

Yes, we do have a 3 - 2 program. Last year there were no students admitted. This year there was one student. There are other programs, that bring people in. And that's a very good question that I'd like to try and answer as best I can. We have JD/MBAs with no work experience. We have M.D./MBAs with no work experience. We would have some people doing Masters in Public Policy -- those people have a slightly easier sell than just an MBA though because typically their career goals are a little different. What they need to take away from an MBA program is different. People appying to the joint degree program have a little easier time because there's a certain academic synergy, such as (the Fuqua courses titled) "Contracts at Law" and "Labor Negotioations," where having the student involved in both of those simultaneously can bring an interesting twist into the classroom.

How big a percentage of the class would you estimate joint degree students to be?

One percent.

How many applicants are waitlisted?

This year, during the course of the process, we waitlisted after every round. We had 200 originally on the list and we cut that down to roughly 80 people at the beginning of the summer. We told those 80 that if they could hold on until the Friday before orientation then there is a chance that they could be accepted.

How many are taken (accepted) from the waiting list?

Roughly 20 for this year.

What do you suggest waitlisted candidates do while "waiting?"

It depends on the personal situation. Most should keep on working. There are those who have another business school choice, that if they've quit their job, then they should relax and if we are ready to offer them the chance they are ready to be mobile.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to re-apply?

Not all of them. We, unlike many b-schools, do, during summer only, provide personal counseling for denied applicants where we go through their file. And, if at that point, if your application is clearly out of its league, we will tell you that.

Fuqua's anual tuition cost is about $24,000, right? What is the exact amount?

$24,100 this year. Which puts us, in terms of tuition and fees, the eighth highest in the country.

And how about housing and the cost of living?

We estimate the students' budget for a year to be $35,000 for a single student (including tuition). And you need to also keep in mind the two years of lost income, that maybe comes out to $50,000 in foregone income.

That's pretty steep. I mean, aspiring MBA students are making a huge investment when looking to earn the degree. Does Fuqua offer financial aid and scholarship?

Yes, definitely. Aggressively so.

About how much? Can you quantify this?

My guess is 35 - 40% of the people we admitted were offered some kind of merit based scholarship money. And that ranges from $3,000/year to full tuition. There is also a stipend for Keller Scholars, which is our top scholarship. Those awards are all merit based, and every single one of them is open to both domestic and international students. In fact, three out 12 of my Keller scholars are internationals.

Well, I know that students frequently worry about falling into heavy debt. What suggestions do you have for them, in terms of pursuing scholarships and loans? Any organizations or Web sites that you would suggest?

I think there are several things I would suggest which are basic strategies. Most people don't decide on the spur of moment to go and earn an MBA education. As soon as you know, you should not be going into heavy debt. That means no new car, no credit card spending -- be fiscally responsible about money. Save as much as you can to minimize that debt. Unless you're working on Wall Street and working on bonuses, however, you can't save enough.

More and more companies are offering tuition reimbursement if students come back (to work for the company). Two years for each year of b-school is a typical arrangement. It makes sense to think about that very seriously. Also, more and more of the MBA employers offer some kind of reimbursement package either as a signing bonus, or as part of compensation package. Something like: 'If you work for us for two years, we'll reimburse you retroactively for one year's worth of your MBA tuition.' These types of deals are becoming more and more common.

Fuqua reported a huge increase in recruiting activity in 1996. From 1994 to 1996, the numbers I have in front of me show that Fuqua experienced a 56% increase in the number of companies recruiting on campus. Some 353 companies made recruiting visits in 1996, compared with just 226 in 1994, according to Fuqua's Dean Rex D. Adams. Adams also said that the number of companies making their first recruiting visits to Fuqua has more than doubled since 1994, rising to 88 from 39. Is this trend continuing into 1997?

It is continuing. I think the challenge that we face now is finding a way to accommodate all the companies that want to recruit here. The bottom line is you can only get so many recruiters. I do know that it has gotten to the point that Fuqua is so in demand that on the day that we start scheduling recruiters to open schedules, recruiters will call at the midnight deadline. Fuqua's goal has always been to maintain a balance.Dan Nagy [Fuqua's Director of Career Services] has been trying to get the top companies in each concentration on campus.

Which concentrations are seeing the most new recruitment activity?

The biggest increase has probably come from high-tech companies, where we really didn't have anything five years ago. Now we're starting to get in the door.

What do you consider to be Fuqua's strengths, educationally speaking.

I think we offer one of the most balanced curriculums of any major b-school. We do a very good job of balancing raw, analytical training with the softer management skills, like team building, leadership, communication, on the both the oral and written end. I think we are doing as good a job as anyone in really incorporating a truly global perspective. And I think we are doing some things with technology that are very cutting edge, like GEMBA.

And the other end of it: What at Fuqua do you feel needs improvement or is weak, educationally speaking?

I think every school always has room for improvement. I think we have had some areas to grow in making finance classes broader, from a general management standpoint. I think that kind of broad focus is critical for a general management program. One thing that we need to improve in is the depth of our faculty. I think we hired nine new faculty members across the board (for this year). We are also trying to increase the depth of electives available to second-year students. We don't want to grow beyond the 325 to 335 student range, but instead we want to grow the faculty. The bottom line is that's one of the disadvantages of being a young business school. We have only been aggressively being anything [in the b-school arena] for the last 10 years. We're just 26 years old.

Who do you consider to be your toughest competitors?

Harvard Business School, Stanford, Columbia, and Wharton.

Not Kenan-Flagler (at the University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill)?

This is where you would go. I had someone drop out of Kenan-Flagler this year and come into Fuqua. I think five years ago that was a very different story, but I think Fuqua has been on such a roll that we are playing against a very different level of competitor. And we don't win many against HBS, but that's the challenge of increasing the balance in the years to come.

Fuqua is located in B-school central. I mean you must compete with Kenan-Flagler and many others. Have the schools extended a bridge for cooperative learning?

In terms of academic programs, there's not a great deal. It's more through extracurricular events and student clubs. Not a lot of it happens in the formal academic end. That has also been made more complicated by our unique academic calendar, when no one else is running on the same clock.

Robert, thank you much for shedding light on both the Fuqua program and the school's application process.