Our degree is equivalent to the MBA degree. It is a management science degree but it's accredited by the AACSB [American Association of Collegiate Schools] and is considered the equivalent of an MBA.

Does CMU marry engineering with business? Is this notion a core part of the GSIA program?

We do offer three dual degree programs in collaboration with our technology departments. We offer a joint degree in business management and software engineering, an MS in environmental and engineering management, and an MS in civil engineering and management. In addition, we do offer a collaborative program with the Heinz School of Public Policy, and students can major in public policy and minor in business or vice versa. We also have a dual degree law program that we offer with the University of Pittsburgh Law School.

All of these programs do meet the needs of special students, but by far the majority of students in our program are straight MSIA students.

Which dual degree program is the most popular?

There is not a clear stand out. The dual degree law program has been around longer so it has a few more students enrolled, but it is a very small part of the student body. Within the MSIA program there's a great deal of flexibility. Students interested in engineering can take elective courses at the engineering school and count them toward their b-school requirements. It helps them build skills while pursuing the b-school degree.

Since your days as assistant dean for student affairs in 1990, have you noticed any trends or differences in what the application process or applicant is like then and now?

Our application pool has grown over last few years. Since I've been in admissions, the functio and our student body has evolved somewhat as well. We have a more diverse student body in terms of global representation. We've also had some increases in the proportion of women in graduate business program, and that has pleased us.

CMU's GSIA applications have been steadily rising over the past couple of years, cresting last year at 1,277. What did this year's applications for the Class of '99 come in at?

Well, in 1995 we were just over the 1,000 application mark. This year we have received about 1,340. So in the past couple of years we've grown about 30%.

I do know that CMU, this year, put together its largest class, of 241 students. How many people did the school need to admit to fill it?

This year we yielded the largest class we've ever had. We targeted between 215 and 225. And this year we had a few more students. We admitted 30% of applicants and 65% of those that we admitted have enrolled for the fall 1997 class.

CMU has consistently been very strong in non-U.S. enrollment. In 1996, the school had a 38% international student body component, third-highest in our top 25 group. What does it look like for this year?

This year's entering class has 36.5% from outside the U.S. So it's down slightly.

Where has Carnegie Mellon been traditionally strong internationally?

We've traditionally been very strong in Asian countries. This year, we've seen a lot of growth in Latin America. In fact, we have about twice as many Latin American students this year as last year. Mexico would be the top Latin America country that GSIA students came from, then it would be Argentina, Brazil, and Venezuela.

Did you guys do something new this past year -- recruiting-wise -- that helps to explain this rise in international applications and in international enrollment?

For the first time last year we participated in a series of recruiting fairs called the "MBA Tour to Latin America." It is sponsored by Lyndon Educational Services, an independent agency. The fairs touched down in five different Latin American capitals: Mexico City, in Mexico; Caracas, in Venezuela; Bogota, in Columbia; Bueno Aires, in Argentina; and Santiago, in Chile. The reception was very positive. Including ourselves, there were 32 programs that participated in the MBA Tour last year. We want to continue to do this next year.

But, on the reverse side of the high international demographic, Carnegie Mellon was tied for last in 1996 [with SMU] for the lowest female student body percentage in our top 50 -- with just 19%. What's it look like for this year?

I'm delighted to tell you that women comprise 25.7% of our first-year class. And we are really, really thrilled with that.

That's quite a jump. What has the school done to accomplish this feat?

I think the most important factor is partnering with students and alumni to work hard with prospective candidates and work with them all the way through the admission process.

What does that entail?

It entails availability to answer questions. We have lots of people call in who would like to talk with a current student or who would like to spend a weekend and be hosted by a current student. Or it may be calling to offer congrats when someone is admitted. We're really just trying to be responsive to the questions and needs that candidates might have. Alumni are also quite responsive to these questions and needs as well.

You're not talking about an alum interviewing a candidate, you're talking about an alum answering questions in a laid back conversation with a prospective applicant?

Right, it's more of an informational-type thing. And by the way, interviews for admissions are all handled by admissions staff members, and this past year, were partly handled by second-year students. So our alumni do not interview.

What are this year's application deadlines?

We have three. The first in on Nov. 14, 1997. The second in Jan. 15, 1998. And the final deadline is on Mar. 14, 1997. We do accept some applications after that, on a rolling admissions basis, depending on space availability.

And what's the turnaround time for response?

For people whose applications are completed by Nov.15, we reply by Dec. 15. For those who meet the Jan. 15 deadline, it's Feb. 15. And for Mar. 15, it's April 15.

Do you consistently get back to applicants within 4 weeks?

We try to. And we're pretty consistent. But if someone completes their application and submits it a little ahead of the deadline, this will not speed up a response; their reply will be sent out to them at the same time that the rest of the applicants' are.

How many seats or spots generally get filled per deadline?

They aren't rationed out in that way. I always encourage applicants to apply as early as their application is ready because there are more seats available in the November time frame then in March .. although there are still seats. No, we don't have a tacit quota that we go by. We're just looking for the right group of candidates.

How much does a GSIA application cost?

This coming year it will be $60. That's gone up $10 from last year.

What is a completed application comprised of?

The application form, two required essays and two optional ones, three letters of recommendation, transcripts from all university studies, the GMAT test, a TOEFL (Test of English As a Foreign Language) for non-native English speakers, a complete history of work experience (which is a detailed description about the candidate's work record since entering college), a resume, and the interview.

What tends to be the first variable that you look at?

We look at the entire file. We ask all of the candidates to submit the entire application in advance of the interview so we have a chance to review it before we meet for the interview. The admissions officer who handles the interview does the initial review of the application and all of the materials. So, the first review of all of the application is at that point. The second level of review is in our admission comittee. And, at that point, the person who was the interviewer would review the case with the rest of the committee. The final review in by myself.

Is there a pre-application process at CMU?

No.

What tends to set admitted students apart from those who have excellent credentials but don't get an offer?

It's a pretty competitive process in terms of gaining admissions, so the ones that are successful are generally somewhat better across the board. It could be that there's something weaker in the application or the person's goals aren't quite as clearly stated.

In 1996, CMU had a GMAT range of 540 - 680. Do you know the range for this year's class?

That sounds like the mid-80% range. This year it's about the same.

So does that mean that an applicant that has a GMAT score of, say 480, should not bother to apply?

No it doesn't. There isn't a minimum score. The average score of students that were successful this year was in the mid - 600s. So, it's a lot tougher for people with a low GMAT score to be successful.

And, I would imagine, that goes the same with a candidates GPA. In 1996, the range of GPAs was 2.1 - 4.0. Someone with a 2.0 or even a 1.9 should go ahead and apply, right?

Sure. Because the candidates are in a competitive process, students generally need to do well in all aspects of the admissions process. But no, we do not have a cutoff. Candidates with exceptional backgrounds can offset weaknesses. Certainly we have candidates with low GMATs, but who also have exceptional work experience, a wonderful academic record, good extracurriculars, etc .. and that can offset the low score.

How many times is it "safe" to take the GMAT without losing credibility at your school?

There's no limit. When we evaluate a score we use the candidate's best score.

If there's no improvement on the third GMAT test over the previous two, that has no impact in your mind?

We don't pay attention to how many times they take the test. We might ask in the interview, if someone has taken the test more than once, what their reasons were. What motivated them to take it?

How does the interview fit into your overall evaluation of an applicant? I know that many admissions directors say it gives candidates an opportunity to really clarify or rectify anything that they feel is a blemish on their application, like a low GPA or little extracurricular participation. Do you agree?

Yes it can. We actually require interviews of all the applicants in our program. For us, it's a really good opportunity to follow up and ask any questions that we have about an applicant and their candidacy .. how a student can distinguish themselves with their communication and interpersonal skills. We have a lot students who are non-English speakers, and the interviews are a good way to assess how comfortable they are with speaking English.

What should an applicant do to prepare him or herself for the interview?

I think that in the interview process we're really looking to understand better the applicants' motivation for why they're seeking the graduate business application. So, all the preparation they've done, in terms of putting the application together, is really what they need to focus on when they prepare for the interview.

Do you specifically, interview?

Yes.

About how many people?

Several hundred.

How long do the interviews usually last?

For people who we schedule on campus, we alot a one-hour time slot to allow for prep time and follow-up. We do some interviews by telephone for students who can't make it to campus, and those last about 30 minutes.

So, you intimated earlier that you do not utilize alumni to interview candidates abroad.

No we don't. We began involving 2nd years [students] in the application/interview process in 1996. And, we had an extensive training program for them that involved training sessions, team interviews with an admissions officer, and then we actually observed their 'real' interviews with candidates.

Many applicants are superstitious about being interviewed by a student because they reason that it isn't weighted as heavily as one with an admissions staff member.

They are held in exactly the same regard, but we do give applicants the option to interview with admissions staff members if they so choose.

Generally speaking, what do you ask during the interview?

We walk through the candidates background, and that accounts for a large part of the time. We try to get an understanding of the choices the candidate has made in life, the academic studies they have taken, the professional work experience they have gathered .. I want to know what's motivating them to pursue graduate business study. Then we learn a little bit more about their experiences working in and being part of a team. What kinds of leadership experiences have they had? We're trying to get a strong sense of the person's goals and motivations, and through that, learn about their ability to communicate.

How many essays are there on the GSIA application?

There are two required and two optionals.

Have they changed at all from last year?

No. They are exactly the same thing as last year.

What mistakes do people commonly make in essays?

I think the first, probably most obvious mistake is not answering the question that was asked. Also a common mistake is to have spelling or grammatical types of errors. I think finally, a common mistake would be making reference to another program in the essay and inadvertantly sending the wrong essays to the wrong school.

Does that type of blunder automatically put an applicant out of the running?

No.

Is it a strike against them?

It's one more piece of information about them. It says something about the care they put into putting the application together.

Can you give an example of the type of recommendation that turns you off -- besides the obvious?

Well, the ones that are most helpful are the references from someone that has the knowledge and can take the time to supply specific examples of what qualifies the person for rigorous business study. They give insights into the leadership capabilities, analytical skills, and successes. So, on the flipside, the ones that aren't helpful don't have the same type of detail. They may not have the time to develop a thoughtful reference.

What's the ideal amount of work experience you're looking for?

It depends on the student. Most of our students tend to fall in a range from 3 - 8 years. But we certainly have students that have less and more than that. For every individual person there's a point where graduate business education makes sense.

Do you accept, or have you accepted, people into your program without any work experience?

Yes we have. Over the last couple of years this has been a much smaller proportion, however.

How big a percentage of the class would you estimate that to be?

2% or less in the last two classes.

Okay Laurie, if you were put back into the applicant's shoes, how would you, or how did you go about the entire application process -- from the initial investigation stage to the actual applying?

I think the initial stage is deciding on what schools are good choices for a particular student, and that is going to vary. For me, CMU was it. I was looking for a quantitative-oriented, general management program. I was, in particular, interested in operations, and that's one of the pluses that drew me to CMU. I was also really attracted to the small size of the class, the quality of the faculty and mini-semester system that gives students the ability to tailor their own curriculum.

So, the first thing is to decide on a group of schools that you find interesting. And if CMU is on the list, you then need to build your application package so that it makes a strong case about why you would be a successful student for the program .. what you have to offer .. why it makes sense for you and your professional development to come here.

You mentioned Carnegie Mellon's mini-semester system. Could you elaborate a bit about that?

Sure. The CMU program is designed to have four mini-semesters in each acadamic year. So a student is typically taking five courses at a time, which allows them to complete 35 - 40 classes over the course of their study. Of those, only 17 courses are required. There's more than 100 electives in 11 different concentration areas. And we feel that the mini-semester systerm really builds a program that meets students' needs by giving them a fair amount of flexibility. Our mini-semesters are 7 1/2 weeks long, and I think that CMU was the first school to have a mini-semester format .. although there are other programs that have adopted it more recently.

Do you allow accepted applicants to defer their enrollment?

We do if there is a very good reason. They need to request it from us. There have to be extenuating circumstances with family or such.

So it's not like an applicant requesting deferment can say my company wants me to stay another year to develop skills in, say, the marketing area, before they will help subsidize my MBA education?

That may be approved, we ask the student to make a case for us and then we evaluate them on an individual basis.

About how many requests to defer did you receive this year [applied for the Class of '99, but want to defer until the Class of 2000]?

We get 20 - 30 request a year. And, I would say about 20 get approved.

How many applicants are wait listed?

This year we put around 70 - 90 on the wait list.

How many are taken (accepted) from the waiting list?

It really varies from year to year how many we're able to take from the wait list. This year we took 15 - 20, while other years we're able to take more and others less.

What should the "waiting" do?

They should definitely keep in touch with us and advise us of any changes in their candidacy, ie: a job change or whether they've taken a course and have a grade to report.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to re-apply?

We do. We talk with anyone who was denied admission if they want to get feedback. And we explain our process if they'd like to be reconsidered for a subsequent year.

Now, Laurie, I understand that you are also the director of financial aid. As you know, earning an MBA is quite an investment, one that is becoming increasingly pricey. First, what's the total cost of tuition to attend CMU's GSIA?

$23,000.

And the estimated cost of living?

About $10,000.

So we're talking about roughly $33,000 a year, $66,000 to cover the entire, two-year experience. And that's not including the amount of money the student is foregoing in lost income by not working. So, if we factor that the student was making $40,000/year prior to attending the GSIA, we're talking about a grand total of $146,000 that it "costs" to go to b-school. What type of financial aid and scholarship help does CMU have?

We have both loan and need-based fellowships available for the students who are applying to our program.

About how many enrolled students receive aid?

For candidates who apply for financial assistance through the school, better than 90% receive some sort of fellowship (scholarship).

Can you give some sort of idea of how much aid these 90% receive in dollar terms?

The average is around 20% of tuition [$4,600].

Can you suggest any organizations or routes an applicant should take to research or garner aid?

There's actually some good resources linked to our website and we often refer students to our website where we provide some good links [www.gsia.cmu.edu]. In addition to that fact, we have a full-time aid officer here who works with each student to put together a package making it possible for them to come to school here.

Alright, let's switch tracks. I understand that Pittsburgh, the city, has undergone somewhat of a renaissance, and has tried to break from its industrial, steel worker image. What's the lifestyle like there? Is it safe?

Pittsburgh is one of the safest major cities in United States. It's a wonderful place to live. Many of our incoming students still think of Pittsburgh as a steel mills and smokestacks type of city, and every single one is very surprised by the environment once they get here. It has been described as undergoing a renaissance. The city is, by appearance, a very clean and modern one. There are lots of cultural and sports activities -- go Pirates! -- and beautiful geography. It's located at the confluence of where three major rivers come together [the Ohio, Monongahela, and Allegheny rivers].

I also understand that Carnegie Mellon is right next door to the University of Pittsburgh.

Yep. It's about two blocks away.

Does CMU offer any crossover or cooperative learning with Pitt?

We share a joint JD/MSIA degree program with Pitt. And, the students do some community service together with Katz [The University of Pittsburgh's business school] students. But joint learning with area schools has been confined to the University of Pittsburgh.

Grads have been spouting about CMU's hi-tech component of the program. Has anything new been added to this recently?

One visible thing is that this year our entering class all purchased notebook computers. This is the first year we're asking entering students to purchase one.

Do you recommend a specific model?

We partnered with IBM and give students three different machines that they can choose from with different levels of features and price. They include the IBM ThinkPad 365x, the IBM ThinkPad 380 [which is the base model 380. there's no CD rom, it has a 1.08 gigbyte hard drive, 30 megabytes of RAM, etc.], and the IBM ThinkPad 380 [tier-three model. It has a 150 MMX processor, 2.1 gig hard drive, 32 megabytes of RAM, and active matrix screen, etc.] So we offer several different models that students can choose from based on cost and capability.

Douglas Dunn was hired as GSIA's dean on July 15, 1996, and is the first dean of the school to hail from the corporate world [he was an AT&T vice president]. Has he instituted any measures that have put CMU in a new direction? He had mentioned that his number one agenda item was improving relations with the school's alumni.

That's clearly an initiative that we are all adopting in terms of his focus. In the admissions office, the alumni are a real part of our team. One of his key initiatives is to focus on involving and serving the needs of the alumni .. Really having them [alumni] take a visible role in terms of being involved with the student body and recruitment.

We're excited to have a dean that does have the perspective of both the academic and corporate worlds. He has provided good insights for us administratively across the organization. I think the corporate background is really an asset in terms of understanding the students who come from corporate backgrounds themselves. It also helps him [Dean Dunn] because he has a great perspective in terms of working with the recruiters.

Speaking of recruiters, what does recruitment look like at CMU? For our 1996 rankings issue, companies rated Carnegie Mellon the number one school to recruit MBAs in operations and 9th in finance. What types of companies are coming to campus? Are new companies coming?

The placement and recruiting area has been very, very strong. Operations and finance are two very strong areas. A third area that has been very strong is management consulting. It's not my area of expertise, but the Class of '97 did extremely well on the job market. The companies where GSIA is now considered a top tier school for recruiting include: AT Kearney, AlliedSignal, American Airlines, Continental Airlines, PNC Capital Markets, Southern Energy, Sun Microsystems, Intel, and Hewlett Packard. Before this past year, we did not see these companies as often.

Fill in the blank: you should come to CMU if you're most interested in what?

If you're interested in a superior education. I've already touched on the rich amount of electives and the opportunities in our program that our mini-semester format gives students in terms of the great amount of of flexibility. We have 11 strong concentration areas. We're traditionally best known for operations, information services, and the tech area. But, our finance program is wonderful, and our entrepreneurship program is very strong. The small class size and faculty-to-student ratio is also a good reason to come to Carnegie Mellon.

Fill in the blank: you should stay away from CMU if you're most interested in what?

I'd encourage anybody to take a look at our program, visit the school, and learn more about what graduates at our school end up doing. This program doesn't offer everything though. For example, we don't offer a concentration in health management.

Who are your toughest competitors?

MIT, Michigan, Stanford, Wharton, and Cornell.

Laurie, I appreciate you sharing some GSIA information with me today. Thanks much for your insights.