Rod, to start off I'd like to ask you a little bit about the the admissions and evaluation process at the University of Chicago's Graduate Business School, where you were the assistant director of admissions, and to contrast that with Sloan's. Can you describe any perceived differences in the admissions process between the two schools?

In terms of the process, since I left (Chicago) in 1988 there have been a lot of changes. The basic procedure at the U. of C. School of Business is that members of the (admissions) committee read applications, so they each read a minimum of 20. Two members of the committee evaluate the file before passing it on to the admissions director, who has the final say so. And it's blind reading, so that the second reader doesn't get to see what the first reader had to say about the candidate. The admissions director makes the ultimate decision, much of which is based on the the recommendations of the two committee members (who read the file prior to the admission director's perusal).

One of the major differences between Chicago and MIT is that Chicago is on a rolling admissions basis, and we are on two deadlines (Editor's note: Chicago recently instituted three deadlines to better manage its growth in applications). Half of the applications are reviewed for the first deadline and the other half are reviewed at the second. We read them as a group. There are about 7 to 8 people -- all of whom are affiliated with the admissions office -- who read the applications. And we have one part-time reader, Diane Katz, who is Sloan's former admissions director.

At MIT, the way it works is that I see the application first before everyone else gets a chance to see it because I am the person who decides who reads the application. And the job is also to indentify roughly the bottom 20% of the pool and set them aside and read them later. These are the people who will most likely not be admitted. The remaining 80% are distributed among the eight committee readers, including myself. The first reader's task is to cut that in half (endorse roughly half of that 80%), and the remaining half will go to the second reader for evaluation. And if they both agree to support a file, then -- in theory -- that applicant is a possible admit. I can't say that if the two readers agree on a file that that guarantees the applicant admittance because we can only admit a certain number of people. So, say, if the readers agreed on 10 individuals, many times they can only endorse eight of those because of space limitations.

If there's a disagreement, then it's up to the readers to decide amongst themselves whether to endorse or reject the file. About two weeks before the deadline we call a general meeting, and I say alright (to the reader), 'tell me about your choices.' So in a given year we admit roughly 450 individuals. I tell the committee that we can admit no more than 200 people for the first batch (the first deadline). And so we say admit 10% to 15% based on how many applications we have. If we are evaluating 2,500 applications and we have a spot for 250 students, we say take 10%. So the burden is on the committee to choose. That is a change from our previous procedure where, I used to have the final say.

I've shifted the burden in order to accommodate our applicants. As the pool has been getting bigger, you see, we have had to safeguard against our application process slowing down. This (the shift) is one way we did it. The bottom line is applicants do not need to lobby me because I am not the only one making the decision. Everyone on the committee has an input in shaping the class. So, naturally there are liberal arts types on the committee and they advocate liberal arts type applicants. Two members of the group advocate for female applicants, and another advocates for minoirites, another member advocates people from the military. So everyone has his or her own biases and I sort of know what kind of people they (the committee members) would most likely admit and that comes into play when I decide which application a reader reads. So there's an advocacy system that we have in place.

Also during the meeting we have an opportunity to run the stats so that we're not admitting a class that's 50% international or that only has 8% women. You want a balance there. It's easier to make that projection there (at the meeting). Decisions are not finalized until the letter goes out because we can and have made decisions at the last minute. And we've held decision letters because we want to see the class profile. In the past it was my responsibility in looking at the profile. Now, it's a group process.

On par with many business schools in our top 25, Sloan's applications have been steadily rising since 1993 (when the school received 1,635 apps) to last year, when the school received 3,012 applications. What was your 1997 total?

3,394.

So the upward trend is definitely continuing at Sloan.

Yes. And the other thing is that we have to discipline ourselves because otherwise we'll just have overcrowding.

Can you point to any factor or group of factors that you feel have contributed to this application rise?

Some general observations. For example, one thing that we have found in talking to students is that because of the good economy, they tend to be less afraid of leaving their current position and getting a better job two years from now. I think that they realize that coming out of a good job for a better one is more feasible today.

Another explanation for the increase is that we think that law school applications are down and a lot of the people who would otherwise apply to law are applying to b-schools. I remember in late '80s law school applications were rising while MBA apps were going down. And I think part of that is that the image of the MBA has changed. I also remember in the late '80s that LA Law was a popular television show!

Hmmmm. Maybe if Steven Bochco produced a TV series about MBAs, something like Managing the Days of Our Lives, the outcome would have been a bit different.

(Laughs). We're also seeing a rise of applications from foreign countries like those in Eastern Europe, and that's new.

Do you attribute any part of this rise to an increase in electronic application programs like MultiApp or Snap Technologies, a web based program that allows for easier access to b-school apps?

I don't think the increase is happening because of these technologies. I'm sure they are helpful to students and, in some ways, provide easier access to the application, but I don't think they account for a huge increase.

Has this sudden glut of applications forced Sloan to alter its admissions process, i.e. cut corners to compensate for the increased burden on admissions officials? I mean, first of all, last year Sloan accepted a paltry 14%. So the strain of reviewing applications must be growing alongside the sheer growth in number of applications.

Well, on top of shifting the decision-making process from myself to the committee I also try and really put the burden on the applicants to assemble a complete application before sending it in to us. If they submit a complete package -- if the recommendations are there for example, something that is frequently missing from an application -- then it speeds up the entire process on our part. We don't have to chase the applicants around asking them for the missing elements of their package.

Have you noticed any trends or differences in Sloan's application process or in the Sloan applicant since you began your tenure at the school?

In the late '80s there were a lot of people coming from financial industries and it's much different now. They're not a core constituence when it comes to applicants. Now we see a lot coming from consulting and manufacturing. As Wall Street starts to hire financial analysts though, we'll start to see financial anaylsts, say two to three years down road, in our rolls. But now there's certainly a lot more coming from industry.

How many spots were there in Sloan's class of 1999?

In 1999 we were looking at a class of 350 total. The goal has always been 350. We actually ended with more students last year because the yield was so much higher than we expected. We ended up with 13 more students then we could handle (in 1996) and had a total of 363, a bit above our projected 350.

This year we were much more conservative. We really used the waiting list and still ended up with two students above the target. And 45 of them are joint-degree candidates with engineering too, so really it's 305 MBA candidates. Some students have managed to do joint degree programs with Harvard. Typically we'll have some students going to Kennedy (School of Government at Harvard) going after an MPA (Master in Public Administration)/MBA. Also, we'll get one or two students going after a JD at Harvard Law and an MBA here.

What is this year's yield?

75%.

MIT, the university-at-large, has been traditionally strong in its non-U.S. class makeup. And last year, Sloan's international makeup (for the overall b-school) was 37% -- good for fourth highest in our top 25 group (behind Rochester's Simon School, Washington University's Olin School, and Carnegie Mellon's GSIA). What does it look like for your Class of 1999?

It's about the same. We keep it to about 37 to 38%. Sometimes it would be 40%.

You mentioned that you've seen a rise in applications coming from Eastern Europe. Are there any other geographic areas in particular where you've seen sharp growth?

Well it has definitely been Eastern Europe this year. I think for the first time we have five Russians, one Ukaranian. And we've always been strong in Latin America, particularly in Chile, Argenitina, Brazil, and Venezuela.

How about in the Pacific Rim?

Japan has very strong representation here. There's probably about 15 to 18 students from Japan in our first-year class alone, roughly about 5%. Thailand has always been strong. Singapore. China has also been on the rise.

And how about female candidates? Are you seeing a rise or fall in their application numbers?

It has been stable for us. I can tell you the percentage is 28%, and it has always been around there. Another thing to keep in mind is that only 35% of GMAT takers are female.

So there's a smaller applicant pool to begin with.

Right. In a part-time program you'll probably see a more gender-equal distribution.

Does Sloan have any programs that cater to the female applicant?

In Boston we hold our own events for New England-based women. It's sort of an open house where we have informational speakers. [The dates, times and locations for these events will be posted on Sloan's Web site].

Also, over the last five to six years 10 schools (MIT, Stanford, Harvard, University of Chicago, UCLA, Wharton, Columbia, Tuck, UVA, and Northwestern) have hosted women's receptions. Last year it was in New York City and San Francisco. This year it will be in Los Angeles, and will be hosted by UCLA . It is called Women & the MBA and will be held on Nov. 13 at the Anderson School. What happens is we (the 10 participating schools) pool our mailing list and we send invitations and flyers to prospective female applicants [this year, the Women & the MBA meetings are slated for New York, Washington D.C., and Los Angeles].

What are this year's application deadlines?

December 19 and January 30.

That's a bit odd. Is there any reason why you've set the second and final deadline for so early in the year, the first month?

If you look at the deadlines of the top 25 we're actually in the middle. We decided to cut the first and last deadlines that we previously had in place to be more in line with other schools and be competitive. So if applicants applied here and other top schools they'll hear around the same time. It's also easier for us.

Have you received any complaints from students?

We've been flexible. We have accepted applicants as late as March. If someone called me in March to apply but will be taking the June GMAT then that's being unrealistic. But if it's (the application, with the GMAT score, etc.) completed we'll give it a try.

One thing about the deadline is if the application arrives here by December 19, then we are obliged to respond by February 16. If someone misses the deadline, that doesn't mean that we won't read it, but that our response will be delayed. So if an applicant called and said. 'I'm still looking for my application letter,' We tell them to just wait until it has been completed.

What connotes a completed application? What variables are assessed?

Okay, there is the application itself, a cover letter (which is the personal statement) and any resume to accompany it, responses to two essay questions -- we had three last year, responses to supplemental questions (optional), up to two recommendations -- and that means that applicants can sumbit one recommendation letter and we'll consider it complete, a transcript, and a GMAT score.

What tends to set that unfortunate 20% of applications that you initially set aside apart from the rest of the pile that, I guess you could say, makes the first cut? In other words, what stands out about an application that tells you that x applicant will not be accepted into the Sloan program?

Nothing. If nothing stands out, then obviously they'll be put there. If there's no track record, their academics are probably fine, but not outstanding; their recommendation(s) are probably just so-so, but the recommender is not enthusiastic and is not overwhelming in his or her support of the candidate. And there's just nothing exciting. We read all the essays and if it doesn't grab you, then that's a bad sign. So you're looking for excitement. If I see something that excites me then I say this is an applicant that one member of the committee would like to read about.

Can you give me an example of a candidate that "excited" you?

Well, there was a late applicant from Mexico a couple years ago. The person applied probably in May or June -- and keep in mind our class starts in August. One thing that really set him appart is that he swam the English Channel and had news clippings describing the challenge. That really stuck out in our minds. Here was a qualified individual who had accomplished a unique feat.

I know that Sloan is best known for its operations concentration. Does that mean that you take extra time to evaluate the GMAT when reviewing an application?

Certainly there is evidence to the fact that a GMAT, in combination with the undergrad GPA, can predict how someone can perform during their first year of study. So I think if you look at someone's GMAT score and undegrad GPA that it's a fair prediction how they will fair during the first year of study. But it will not tell us how this person will perform after graduation.

Is there a cutoff score that you keep in mind?

We do have a threshold -- I wouldn't say it's a "cutoff." Academically I think you have to have a 3.0 or above, more like a 3.2.

And what about the GMAT?

I think this is a misconception. Most people tend to fixate on the 650 total score. But we pick apart the total score and look for a verbal score around 36 (although a 33 or close to that is certainly acceptable) and on the quant section, a 41. So with the two of them taken together, it would be around 620. It doesn't mean that if you don't meet the threshold that you're out, which is why I evaluate them [the applications] personally before passing them on.

How many times is it "safe" to take the GMAT without losing credibility at your school?

They can take them as much as they want. We ask them to report the score that they'd like us to evaluate. The GMAC [Graduate Management Admissions Council] will only report the last three GMAT tests. What we consider and what we enter in the computer is what the applicant reports to us. We just ask for their highest score.

To the best of my knowledge, Sloan only interviewed roughly 60% of its applicants in 1996. Has that percentage changed at all? Has it increased or decreased?

The way we do it at Sloan is that we selectively interview applicants that we'd like to learn more about. We don't have open interviews. We interview people when they apply. If we want to know more about them, we would either invite them in [to campus] or set-up an alumni interview.

If an applicant is not asked to interview, is that a bad omen?

No, there are people admitted who don't [interview]. We devote three days out of the week -- Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday -- where we have an hour-long group lunch where the applicants can chat with us [the admissions commitee].

How many applicants did you interview this year [for the Class of '99]?

My guess is that of the 350 students that we have, close to half were interviewed. So that's probably around 7% of the entire pool. If we have an application, and everything is good, but the recommendation is not overwhelming, or the recommender may have said that this person is quiet, then we would bring that person in just to see what's up. The interview session is really just to serve the person and find out what type of individual we're dealing with here. We will not evaluate the applicant, but give applicants a chance to sell themselves. They're not necessarily borderline cases. Sometimes there are applicants that we would like to waitlist, and instead of just waitlisting them we decide to call them in and make a decision right away. Sometimes we do it for recruiting purposes. We think the closer they are to the school the more influence Sloan may play in their final decision to accept an offer to matriculate.

What's should applicants do to prepare themselves for the interview?

Just be natural. Be relaxed. Informal interviews are so much better.

Do you specifically, interview?

I do.

What do you ask, generally?

Basically, I would probably devote five minutes to warm up -- you know, talk about the weather, Boston, their trip to the school, their origin ... and then just kinda take it from there and pass it on to the applicant.

What mistakes do you frequently see when interviewing?

I guess when they just sit there and expect us to grill them ... it's not the way we do it. It's really just a casual conversation. We just want to know how they interact in a one-on-one setting.

Rod, why the did Sloan change the essay questions, in terms of the number?

The final essay question was kind of a 'cute' essay question that we didn't feel we learned anything from. It was something like write your own interview report. And it was really more fun for students to write and pick their self-confidence up, but we realized that it just was not very helpful for us. So we decided to be professional and stick with the professional end of it. I feel if you're dealing with a good applicant, a winner, you don't have to read 10 essays to convince yourself that this is a winner. How many essays to you need to read? The same goes with the recommendations. How many do you need to convince yourself that this person's not gonna make it here?

Okay, so what do the essays consist of?

Well first, the cover letter explains the applicant's goals, what the person expects to contribute to the Sloan program. And, of course, a required resume accompanies the cover letter.

The two essay questions have to do with the mission of the Sloan School. The first one has something to do with globalization and how that has affected the applicant. For the second one we ask them to write an example of when the applicant has led a team or exhibited leadership.

And what does the optional essay question cover?

If they choose to they can list their leadership activities, school honors, and the such.

Oh. So the optional question isn't really a writing assignment, but more of a list that the applicant can assemble to show off his or her accomplishments.

Right. We also ask them to list their extracurricular activities, and any other information they want to share with us that they think might help them gain acceptance.

Does originality in content count for much in your eyes ... in terms of presentation? For example, if an applicant tries to be clever by writing in rhyme or iambic pentameter, does that score points with you?

I think in some cases it will work, but it depends on the mood of the evaluator. If, on a given day when I'm evaluating applications, all of the applicants sound alike to me, something humorous might save that person [candidate]. But don't do it only because you want to entertain the reader.

Sounds awful similar to playing a game of russian roulette.

Yeah. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But I'll tell you what does work. If you check your spelling, and the essays' readablility. If you are putting 100% into writing the essays and putting together the entire application, I think that we will somehow manage to get a sense of that. Applicants also have to tailor the content. They should speak to us and tell us why they ought to be included in Sloan. Address why this place would be a lot better with them here. If individuals are applying to seven to nine schools you only put your best effort toward two to three schools and at some point the effort dwindles. The moral here is pick the best four to five schools that you want to apply to. Maybe you'll have a school there that's hard to get into, and a safety school. Put equal effort into five applications, as opposed to a shotgun application.

Your philosophy concerning the unusually small number of essays an applicant is required to complete also holds true for the recommendations: no need to overdo it. If the recommendation is glowing, with the recommender gushing about the applicant, does this make you leery? Should the candidate feel worried if the recommendation is full of bland superlatives and very few telling negatives?

I don't think so. I think we just want to have an understanding of the applicant, and I'm only speaking for Sloan. We treat recommendations as endorsements. We're looking for someone to endorse the particular candidate. In some regions of the world such as Asia and Latin America, applicants tend to go for big names like the CEO or the president of the company that they don't know, because that's in their culture. If the recommender doesn't know the person then it's not a good recommendation. A good recommendation is one from a person that knows the person and that can speak about the qualities of the applicant. We're looking for very specific examples -- how an applicant played an important role in a company, for example.

What's the ideal amount of work experience you're looking for?

Two years and above. The average here is 4+.

About how many students presently enrolled in the Sloan MBA program have zero work experience?

None this year. And that's not a policy change, it's more of an applicant pool change.

So having work experience carries a good deal of weight?

Three years of experience doesn't necessarily have an advantage over two years. But definitely more over none, and that's important. People coming out of college still aren't sure what they want to do with their lives. And, like I said, this [change] is a function of the pool. When you have an applicant pool where people have worked for five years, then those people will clearly shine above the people who have no work experience.

Do you allow accepted applicants to defer?

We do. If they ask for it we always grant it.

About how many requested deferment this year?

This year it was no more than 10% of the people we admitted who asked to defer. And we grant that request.

How many applicants were waitlisted?

This year we probably had 100 people or a little over. And we admitted maybe close to half.

So it's not like purgatory?

Correct. Especially this year, because when we chose the class we decided to be conservative and use the waitlist aggressively. We ended up with just the right-sized class.

What should those on the waitlist do once they've been notified?

The first thing they need to do is respond. Very often we put people on the list because we're just not sure if they really want to be here. So I think the first thing they need to do is by all means respond to the waitlist and tell us that they want to be reviewed. And believe me, there are people that just don't respond because they don't think they have a realistic chance to be accepted. The bottom line is when you are waitlisted, definitely pursue it because you don't know. Timing is also critical. When you call, whether we need someone or not will have a large bearing on your success. It's also important to get the admission person's name and continue communicating with him or her because that person could be advocating your admission. Trying to contact every member of the committee sometimes backfires.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to re-apply?

We have no position on that. If they choose to reapply then we will reconsider them. Because we were unable to admit many off the waitlist last year, we were actually more considerate of them this year ... and its not a consolation prize. I don't think this will hold true next year, though.

What is this year's tuition?

$25,800

Is this an increase from last year?

Yes. Last year it was $23,900. It's an increase of 7%.

What's do you estimate is one year's cost of living?

About $15,700 for single students.

So we're talking about a pricey two year package. Does Sloan offer financial aid and scholarship?

We have fellowhsips for under-represented minorites and it's need-based. We need to look at their FAFSA [Free Application for Federal Student Aid]. The position that we take here -- and it's not just at Sloan but at MIT as a whole -- is that we will try to provide as much as we can in terms of loans. If a student can show a need for $35,000 and that person shows the ability to pay back that amount, we would give it to that person.

And the other thing is that there are ample opportunities to work as a researcher or teacher's assistant. If you have the time and are willing, and, of course, are qualified, you just need to talk to professors and they are usually looking for help. Some of these assistantships pay for half if not for all of the tuition.

I would guess, however, that this is only for a lucky few ...

Actually, no. In the economics core, professors always need people to grade papers and research. So we look for second years because they will able to TA the first year class. Typically these students do well in economics during their first year, for example, and qualify to be a teaching assistant.

Is Sloan part of any type of a scholarship consortium or league?

No, unfortunately we're not part of anything like that, we're on our own. Even MIT central does not contribute to our scholarship fund.

Now MIT is in a wonderfully rich area where there is a network of elite academic institutions. Do you share any academic programs with other nearby schools? For example, is there any cooperative academic program where Sloan partners with Harvard Business School?

We do have students taking classes at HBS and vice versa. We do allow cross registration. This is a deal between MIT and HBS, and it has been going on forever. It has been part of the MIT-Harvard agreement for more than 10 years now.

Fill in the blank: You should come to Sloan if you're most interested in what?

I guess the exchange of ideas between faculty and students -- for a mutual exchange of ideas. The international representation of the school. In places like the Far East and Latin America, MIT is respected and I think that speaks to the quality of our program.

Fill in the blank: You should stay away from Sloan if you're most interested in what? In other words, what type of an applicant may be better served at another program?

If they're more interested in the degree itself then the process of learning, the exchange of ideas between faculty and students, then this is probably not a good place.

Who are your toughest competitors? With which schools do you most often compete for students?

Most of the people we lose go to Harvard and Stanford.

Rod thanks very much for your insights today.