Hello Aleta. I understand that you a relatively new at the position, but have been working quite some time in the admissions office.

Since February of 1996 I've been at MBA Admissions as associate director. I was appointed the Director of MBA Admissions in June of this year.

So this is your first year admitting MBAs?

I was actually acting director in November of 1996, so I basically oversaw last year's process as well.

So, you've seen a considerable number of applicants just having evaluated two applicant pools (for 1996 and 1997). Applications have been generally rising at most schools over the past five years and I think part of that is because some applicants feel that the MBA degree is an automatic ticket to success. In your opinion, why should a person get an MBA?

To build on a skill set that you've developed post-graduation. You've taken a position in a certain industry and get to a point where you want to ensure upward mobility or want to make a career change into a totally different industry. The MBA helps you get the foundational skills to be able to move upward in various organizations.

What types of things are you observing that are different now than in the past .. in terms of the applicants or qualifying factors? I mean, you were an applicant in 1990. Do you feel the environment has changed at all?

I think that the applicant pool has become a lot more competitive in terms of the type and amount of work experience. I also think there's probably a lot more faculty emphasis on students bringing in value. Faculty want a joint learning process, where a lot of sharing is involved. The average MBA candidate has a better understanding of why they want it. The environment has become a lot more competitive and schools are demanding it. As a result, the marketplace has become a lot more competitive for top quality MBA education.

Many schools have seen a surge in applications over the past couple of years, Kenan-Flagler as well. However, compared with the past two years your applications seem to be tailing off. What is the total number of apps you've received this year?

About 2,025.

To what do you attribute this decline [in 1995, Kenan-Flagler received 2,067 apps, 1996 garnered 2,052]?

We look at it as relatively flat. I think that in the recent years our competitive environment has changed a bit. Schools have become a lot more aggressive in their marketing, in terms of telling their applicants what they offer. I don't think we have been as aggressive as we could be. We now have a marketing plan that is a lot more aggressive and highlights the opportunites available here. What we've done is create a plan that's going to focus on relationship marketing and customer service. So through it we have created better ways to highlight what Kenan-Flagler has to offer from the new technological advancements that the new McColl Building is going to offer, to highlight our emphasis on teamwork and global initiatives that we have underway, as well as (to emphasize) the opportunities for female and minority students here. So it's really trying to cater to the specific desires of our prospective students. For instance, if a person is interested in operations or investment banking, we want to make sure that they know what Kenan-Flagler offers.

How big is this year's class and how many people did the school need to admit to fill it?

Right now we're somewhere around 215. This year we accepted 370 people and our yield is probably higher now than it has been. We initially had about 242 people indicate they wanted to attend, which made our yield 65%. We won't know officially until next Monday (8/18). We admitted fewer students than we have in recent years. Last year we accepted 406 students.

[Editors note: Since starting the Fall 1997 academic semester, Kenan-Flagler has listed the official Class of '99 enrollment at 223 students, making their yield 60.3%]

That's a pretty small class size. Has that varied significantly at all?

Not really. We've actually officially been between 210 - 225. Last year we were at 223 or 222, and this year we're thinking about 215, or maybe slightly under that number. So we're somewhere in that area. We're considering increasing our class size to 240 - 250 next year. But that has not been decided yet.

Previously, you were the associate director of minority recruitment for MBA admissions. Last year, Kenan-Flagler had a minority percentage of 16% of the class, a fairly high percentage of minorities. Is this a quota? What types of things is the school doing to cater to minorities?

No. We keep no quotas, not at all. One of the tools that we can effectively use in catering to minorities is the Consortium for Graduate Study in Management [a group that provides financial assistance to minority students]. We've been affiliated with the Consoritum since the early '70s.

We also have "Inside Kenan-Flagler," a minority recruitment weekend workshop. Every year we invite anywhere between 30 and 40 applicants to our campus for the weekend workshop, and they stay here for 2 1/2 days to meet with faculty, students, and sit in on class discussions. And they are actually given a case study of their own to complete. We also have some informal panel discussions during the recruitment weekend where students and faculty share their perspectives on the Kenan-Flagler experience in and out of the school. It's very effective. This year we're looking to attract more people, maybe 50 students, to that.

Also, we participate in the GMAC Destination MBA Forums which are targeted to minority applicants. They are designed to help minority applicants to better understand the admissions process. We also attend the National Black MBA Conferences and National Hispanic MBA Conferences to talk to prospective applicants. So we're pretty aggressive there. Once students are enrolled, we have in-house, student-run organizations for minorities: the Alliance and Minority Business Students and the Carolina Hispanic Business Agenda.

Last year, UNC ranked among the lowest of our top 50 schools for international student body component, with just 19%. What does it look like for this year?

We're actually at 20% and we're certainly looking to increase that over the next few years. We put some things in place recently in developing a cohesive international recruitment strategy and really highlighting a lot of the things that we're doing.

Like what?

We want to be a global player -- that's going to be necessary to continue to be a key player in the MBA market. We're trying to be more involved. We developed a position, the Associate Dean for International Programs. We're creating internship opportunities in Asia, leveraging and marketing other initiatives that our faculty are undertaking overseas. We participate in international GMAC Forums. We also do some of our own recruiting in Thailand (usually in the winter) where we interview candidates. Last year there were 100 people. This year we also went to Jakarta. Again, we're trying to leverage the presence that we already have in East Asia and build our presence in Latin America and Europe. To answer you question, it goes back to being more aggressive in marketing our program.

Conversely, Kenan-Flagler had the third highest percentage of women in the class in 1996 (33%). What do you attribute this to?

Looking at my own situation ... I think a lot of schools will provide a solid education, but I think a lot of schools don't do a good job at setting the tone for an environment that is cooperative and not overly competitive. I think we put a lot of emphasis on teamwork and collegiality, which may be more appealing to female applicants. One of the things that we're going to put in place this year is to better understand why various groups are coming to our school. There will be more focus groups created to talk to students one-on-one about what they think of our program and if there are any opportunities for improvement.

When should applicants start the process?

I would encourage a person to start a year before they actually fill out an application. If I was looking to apply in 1998, I would start in 1997. That first year should be used visiting campuses, and talking to alums, and from that you can decide which schools you really want to attend. So you narrow down the field and figure-out which schools provide the best fit in terms of your personal skill set and personality. Then in terms of officially starting the process, KFBS has four deadlines.

When are the deadlines for this upcoming year?

The first is on October 24th. The second is November 21st. The third is January 16th, 1998. And the final deadline is March 6th, 1998.

Obviously getting the materials is important. I would apply by the second or third deadline, definitely not the fourth. The first and fourth deadlines are definitely the most competitive. It's competitive in the fourth because there are fewer spaces. And fewer people apply for the first deadline, so we are much more selective. If you are waitlisted for the first deadline, that means that you are re-evaluated with the next pool.

Prospective candidates complained last year that they had a hard time securing an application because the system was backlogged. How does this work?

You give us a call [919 962-3236] or email us [williaml.bsacd1@mhs.unc.edu], and indicate to us that you'd like an application. Last year, we had a problem with the fulfillment house [a catalogue fulfillment house]. We basically download the application information from our database to their database and last year's problem stemmed from a backlog problem. But we've corrected that and it definitely should not recur.

What key attributes must an applicant have to get through the initial screening process?

We don't do any type of pre-application. Most applicants may undergo an on-campus interview prior to completing the application. They really need strong communcations skills. They should be able to vocalize what role they see themselves playing at KFBS, what they value ... we want them to give examples of their leadership ability, initiative, and, you know, the general characteristics that schools look for.

What tends to set admitted students apart from those who have excellent credentials but don't get an offer?

Typically it may be their interpersonal skills. You may have a 750 GMAT score, but if you don't have interpersonal skills then you just won't fit in here. We want these people [accepted candidates] to succeed in placement as well as in the program. So we want to see that they can clearly communicate, why they want to be here, and what they're going to do while they're here, and what they're going to do once they leave.

How do you assess leadership potential?

We certainly can look at the recommendations, at examples of extracurricular involvement during undergrad and professional affiliations. And, of course, during the interview. We specifically ask them whether they always want to be at the forefront. We want to hear examples of their ability to lead a team and ultimately lead an organization. We also want them to demonstrate to us that they have the ability to work in a team setting. So it's the recommendations, the application, extracurriculars, and the interview that gives us an idea of the candidate's leadership potential.

How important is the undergraduate's GPA and school of study in the admissions process?

It is important because it's an indication of past academic performance and can be an indicator of how well they're going to commit themselves to the KFBS program. We look at that. I don't really know of any situations where an undergrad institution has been a factor of a person not gaining admission. The schools from which a lot of our alums have come shed light on the rigor of undergrad curriculum but they've never been a deciding factor.

How much weight does the GMAT carry for an application?

The GMAT is just one of the components. We don't have any type of weighted system.

In your opinion, how many times is it "safe" to take the GMAT without losing credibility at your school?

We honestly do look at the top score; we don't average the scores. The more times the person takes the GMAT they also have to realize the other person across the table is going to see it. The candidate has to assess whether the first or second time is satisfactory or if they should retake it for a higher score. At the same time, taking it 10 times is not realistic.

Are on-campus interviews an essential part ot the application process? UNC only interviewed about 78% of its class in 1996. What about this year? Are you placing more importance on it this year?

Yes. Of the entire applicant pool, we typically interview 75% - 80%. Roughly 20% of last year's interviews were of international applicants. We require domestic interviews. So that 78% figure [from 1996] is for the total applicant pool. This year the percentage of applicant pool interviewed is closer to 80%. So, the interview is very important.

Are they required for candidates with no work experience?

No, they're required for any domestic applicant. We've been requiring interviews for about the last five years.

What if there's no way a candidate can schedule one? Does this hurt his or her chances of getting in?

We do make some accomodations. For example, we do allow West Coast candidates to interview at the MBA Forums in San Francisco and Los Angeles while we're there. This is usually about 10% of the KFBS class. We probably interview 50 applicants while we're out there. It varies from year to year. International applicants can set up an interview if they'd like to contact one of our alums.

How does the interview fit into your overall evaluation of an applicant?

It's probably weighed slightly less than the GMAT, and about as much as the recommendations. The person could have the strongest of interpersonal skills but if they have scores that indicate that they might not be able to cope with the academic rigor, then the interview isn't going to be factored as heavily. We don't quantify how much weight we put on the GMAT, but it's certainly one of the most important components.

Do you interview?

Occasionally.

What types of questions do you ask during the interview?

The interviews last 30 to 45 minutes. After establishing rapport, one of my first questions is: 'based on your professional success, what has brought you to the point of coming back to school and getting an MBA degree? Why at this particularly point in your career? Why Kenan-Flagler?' And then it's, 'How did you go about selecting b-schools to apply to? What type of position are you looking to pursue once you graduate? What value to you plan to bring to the classroom?' And we like to get at what makes that individual unique.

We want to hear about their leadership experience. 'Tell me about a time when you were in close competition to reach a goal and how did you handle it. Describe a situation when you were involved with changing the status quo or had to convince others around you about your opinion.'

What common slip-ups do applicants frequently make during the interview?

Rambling is one. A person really needs to be an active listener and address the question. He/she may take a couple of seconds to think of an example. If I asked you, 'what motivates you in your job?,' you may have to take a couple of seconds, then give me an example and then end it. You need to be conscious (of when to end your response). Also, be careful in appearing to have stock answers. You really want to be creative in you responses. You're not just trying to answer the specific question, you want to highlight your ability to lead a team as well as highlight your ability to be a team player. You want to show us the well-rounded picture. Use the opportunity to share as much about yourself as you can. And that also goes for the essays.

How many recommendations do you require?

Three.

What type of recommendation are you looking for?

We like current or previous employers, preferably a supervisor.

What if the candidate is an entrepreneur?

Usually the person [chosen to recommend] is either a client perhaps, or somebody the candidate has worked for sometime during their life. Also, the recommender could be somebody they worked on a project with as a partner. Or maybe it could be a project manager because they have a better feel for what the person has done on a day-to-day basis.

What, in your mind, is the ideal way to split up the three recommendations?

Current supervisor, previous supervisor, and a peer/team partner (which would be valid if you were a project manager of a consulting project, for example).

Aleta, you got an MBA from Kenan-Flagler in 1992. Let's return to your experience applying to b-schools. Could you tell me what steps you took to get in?

I started the process a year ahead of time. And I, personally, did not look into very many schools. I assessed my own background (GPA, GMAT, work experience) and then I looked at the stats of the class profile to make sure that there was a relatively close match and to make sure that I wasn't totally out of my league. I attended campuses, and attended the Minority Weekend Workshop. I definitely utilized every opportunity that I could to sell my skill set and explain what I was going to add to the program. Kenan-Flagler was the first school to which I applied and that did it for me. Going through the application process, everybody was friendly and courteous, and that indicated to me what the experience would be like. What exceeded my expectations most was the faculty -- their experience and availability. They quickly form partnerships with the students so that learning doesn't just take place in the classroom.

I'm sure everybody worries about financial aid. How does that figure in the admissions process at Kenan-Flagler?

Because we have a centralized financial aid office, we assume that the applicant has already thought about the financial obligation. That has no effect whatsoever on the admissions office. The age and maturity of the applicant indicates that they've weighed that thoroughly.

Many applicants feel that being put on the waitlist is akin to dying a slow death. Do you agree?

No. We utitilize the wait list. For example, I mentioned that the first deadline is pretty selective. So we use the waitlist to evaluate a candidate with the following applicant pool. So we can get a better picture of what the pool looks like and how that person compares to the pool.

So, then an applicant who applies to the first deadline can be reviewed three additional times?

Yes, that is possible. But there aren't that many that that's going to happen to. If we find that you're not competitive against the second pool then its likely that we'll make a final decision at that time.

How many applicants are waitlisted?

It varies, probably anywhere from 20 to 50. It just depends on where we are in the process

What are the chances of getting taken off? I mean, I know that last year, Kenan-Flagler cancelled the waitlist because more students accepted offers than you had space for. Does this happen frequently?

Actually this year we did (take candidates from the waitlist). We took about 10 to15 off the list. In general if you're placed on the waitlist, there's probably a 25% to 30% chance that you'll be admitted. The later you apply however, the less likely you are to be taken off the waitlist. For example, later in the year, you're less likely to get taken off at all. For the last deadline we probably won't take anybody off at all.

Do you encourage rejected applicants to reapply?

In some cases. It really depends on the situation. Most candidates call and will basically ask how they go through the reapplication process or for an evaluation of their file. We will give them a telephone evaluation of their file and tell them how competitive they were. In terms of encouraging them to reapply, it depends on the individual. If we don't feel they'll make it, then we'll encourage them to consider other schools. There are also applicants who apply at the last deadline who we'd love to have, but there just aren't enough spots. So we encourage them to reapply.

Has the school found a successor to Dean Paul Fulton yet?

No we have not. We're aggressively looking to finalize that. I'm not on the committee but I think we're pretty close to finalizing that decision, hopefully within the next few months. There are some strong candidates.

Has Kenan-Flagler opened its new building yet?

Our dedication of the McColl Building was on September 12, and we'll be moving in by the end of September. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan will give keynote remarks and cut the ribbon to dedicate the new $44 million, state-of-the-art facility.

Corporate recruiters, in our 1996 survey, said UNC still did not turn out MBAs who were as qualified as those from such rivals as Duke, Virgina, and Texas. Has Kenan-Flagler been working to improve this situation?

First, I don't agree with that statement. But yes, we've been taking another look at our curriculum and where there were some opportunities to strengthen the analytical rigor and we actually have revamped the curriculum for the upcoming class. The classes haven't changed much but the content has. We spent the last year taking a look at all of our first-year courses specifically, and at whether there were opportunites for improvement.

If you looked at the last Business Week ranking we got lower marks in the global perspective and the overall opinion of corporate recruiters wasn't as high as it should be. Despite that, however, we've been get As on teaching. So we saw corporate worry as a sign that we should strengthen the areas that recruiters thought our graduates were weak in.

Who are your toughest competitors? In other words, with which schools do you most often compete for students?

Duke, Michigan, and UVA in that order for this year. And that's pretty consistent.

Would you like to add anything else before we wrap up?

One thing I'd like to say from an admissions standpoint is that we've developed a very aggressive strategic marketing program to provide applicants with the info they need about coming to Kenan Flagler. Whether they're [applicants] interested in better understanding what emphasis we're putting on teamwork or what global initiatives we have, we want to provide them with more info. Our competitive environment has changed most rapidly over the past five years. We didn't have to be as aggressive [in the past] but the marketplace has changed, and in turn, we too have changed.

When looking at b-schools, candidates really need to assess where they best fit and where they're going to get the best experience. If they really want something that's a little less competitive, where people appreciate teamwork .. that's the competitive advantage here and Kenan-Flagler. I can't honestly think of anybody that's had a bad experience here. I'm sure they're out there, but many really look forward to coming back here. We have a couple thousand people coming back for the building dedication, and we feel that the building is going to put us ahead in terms of our technological advancement.