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FEBRUARY 23, 2000 B-SCHOOL Q&A: ADMISSIONS Meet Vanderbilt's Admissions Director A Conversation with Todd Reale, Director of MBA Program and Admissions at Vanderbilt University's Owen Graduate School of Management
Q: Todd, you received your MBA degree from Emory's Goizueta School in 1994. So you've gotten a first-hand look at what the admissions process is like from both sides of the fence -- as a student and an admissions chief. How, in your mind, has the admissions process changed since your time as a B-school applicant? A: The basic process has stayed the same over the last 5 or 6 years. Many schools still require a lot of the same things that they did before. But there have been some changes in technology that have made the admissions process more user-friendly and efficient, both for students and administrators. Some of that technology has allowed us to improve our communication with prospective students. The other thing that's changed is, when I was in business school, we were just coming out of the recession in the early 90's. The job market, when I was graduating, was good, but it's continued to improve steadily over the last 5 or 6 years, and people that are graduating from business schools now -- especially from top schools like Vanderbilt and Emory -- are receiving incredible job offers. Q: Before coming to Vanderbilt, you worked in the MBA admissions offices of the University of Florida, as well as Emory. How has the admissions process differed at those three schools? A: The overall admissions process is fairly similar at most business schools. But the resources available to me, in terms of staff and funding, to recruit globally, as opposed to just nationally or regionally, is something that is easier to do at a private school like Vanderbilt. My role has changed. I got started in MBA admissions about a year and a half after I graduated from Emory's MBA program, and I really just sort of fell into this job by accident. I had left a consulting job, was considering some other options, and some folks at the business school asked if I would help out on a part-time basis, interviewing candidates and selling the program. Then they tapped me for some systems experience that I had previously, and I got involved in identifying and installing an admissions data base. Next thing you knew, I was working there full-time. I've really enjoyed the career change, and have been able to experience some different things at Emory, the University of Florida, and now Vanderbilt. The situation that I'm in here at Vanderbilt is ideal: I'm surrounded by the best group of people I've worked with -- in any academic institution or corporation that I've been associated with -- and there are a lot of exciting things going on right now. Q: What "exciting" things are attracting this year's Vanderbilt MBA applicants? A: A couple of different things. First of all, our reputation in the field of telecommunications and electronic commerce. [We're] one of only a handful of business schools that has been able to offer the breadth and depth of elective courses that we provide in those fields. That's something that's appealing to applicants. Interest [in those fields] has grown probably 3 to 4 times among our applicant pool in the last three years. That [surge in interest] certainly accounts for some of the 35% growth in applications that we've seen at this point in the process, compared to the last two or three years. Also impacting our application growth are some of the software and Internet tools out there -- specifically, MBA Multi-App and Embark.com, formerly CollegeEdge. Only about 8% of all our applications last year were submitted online, and that compares to about 25% or 30% [who are applying online] this year. The benefit of those services is that they make it really easy [for prospective students to] apply to multiple schools, which we know that most candidates do. So, if somebody's considering Wharton, Kellogg, Darden, Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Indiana, Emory, or some of the other schools that we compete with, it's really quite easy for them to also submit an application to Vanderbilt. We've been using some other online tools and e-mail to really step-up our promotional efforts and reach out to people that we think are going to be a good fit at the Owen School, and encourage them to apply. Q: Let's talk about "fit." Just who exactly fits with the Vanderbilt MBA program and culture? A: There are three main areas that we consider in the admissions process. We're looking for people who have strong academic ability, as evidenced by their performance at other academic institutions, as well as on the GMAT. We look for people who bring substantial professional experience to our program. [Those include people who] have either full-time post-baccalaureate experience, or some solid undergraduate internship [experience], who will be able to contribute to class discussions and case-study analyses and group projects. The third area we consider is just some of the general personal qualities: good team skills, communication skills, interpersonal skills. We look for cultural diversity, and for leadership potential. I don't think any one of those areas is any more important than the others. We look for people who are well-balanced, and who are high-achievers and high-performers in each of those areas.
Q: Vandy's full-time MBA class has increased by about 20 spots from last year to this year. Is your office consciously trying to expand the class roster? A: No, actually we're not. Two years ago, before I got here, we enrolled our largest class ever: 232 students. The problem that year was that there were just too many offers of admission extended, and our enrollment yield was right around where it has been for the five years prior to that. So there were just too many offers, and we ended up with a large class. Last year, we dramatically reduced the number of offers that we made, but at the same time, we were able to improve our enrollment yield. Even though the yield only jumped from 45% to 50%, that extra 5% of 450 offers of admission was enough to result in an extra 25 students or so. Our target has always been to bring in a class of around 205-210 per year, and we've [actually enrolled] 232 and 226 [respectively], over the last two years. What we're doing this year is trying to get that average back down to the level that our students and faculty feel comfortable with. So, we're shooting for a class size of about 200 this year. There have been some concerns that we've addressed, about the size of both classes that are currently enrolled. It has stretched our facilities a little bit, and there are a number of things we've done to ease that burden. For example, we've renovated our auditorium, and converted it into a multi-use facility. It's now an executive-style classroom with theater-style seating in the back, so that we can still use it for large-group presentations. But it's also a working classroom. So that will help free up some space. We've also recently initiated a wireless laptop program. We're installing a wireless network throughout the building that will enable students with a network card installed in their laptop to connect to the Owen network anywhere on the first or second floor of the building. Eventually, they should be able to do that from across the street at the Starbucks coffee shop. So that will help free up additional space in our computer lab. It will open up additional areas for students to work on group projects together, without the constraint of being plugged into a data port and a power jack. Q: Over the last three years, applications to the Owen School have, in fact, been decreasing. In 1997, they peaked at about 1,300. They then decreased the following year, in 1998, to 1,185. And last year, they totaled 1,143... A: If you look back into the mid-90's, our applications averaged around maybe 850 to 1,050 per year. In '97, they were just above 1,300 applications, which is the most we've ever had. And then they tailed off a bit. [That's partially] due to some of the turnover in our [admissions] office, and the fact that I was new. Our team was working together for the first time, and we were also trying to initiate so many new programs, we didn't have a lot of the up-front time that we needed to really put a good marketing plan in place to promote the school to prospective students. This year, we've got the same team in place that we have last year, and we all know what we're doing. We're building on some of the successes that we had last year, like Scholar's Weekend. We're being more aggressive in our promotion of the school, through direct mail and direct e-mail communication. We've added additional recruiting events. And we're doing a better job of getting the word out. For instance, we recently hired a director of communication. Q: We're now in the middle of this year's admissions process. The Owen School has a total of three deadlines -- the first one on November 19th, and the last one on March 17th. Is it too late for folks to apply, at this stage of the game? Does the school favor those who apply earlier in the admission season? A: No, we don't favor those applicants who apply early. One of the reasons we recommend that people apply by January 28th -- our second deadline -- is because we have limited resources for financial aid. A lot of our financial aid is awarded in the first two rounds. There is still some money available in the third round, but it's much more competitive at that point. The same thing goes for admissions. We've raised the standards that we're using to evaluate candidates. And we're using the wait list much more this year than we did in last year's process. We're anticipating [using the wait list a lot more] as the process goes on, and we go from about 20% of our applications in the first round, to about 35% in the second round, to 40% in the third round. The third round is actually our largest pool. Q: Let's talk a bit about how your administration has upped the admissions ante. Of all the different criteria involved in the application packet -- the GMAT, GPA, work experience, essays, recommendations, etc. -- what stands out most to you? A: We look for candidates who are well-rounded. Most of the statistics that are reported about business school tend to focus on GPA and GMAT and years of experience. Those are certainly important, but there are a lot of qualitative measures through the admissions process that are also important to us, such as the quality of undergraduate institution that somebody's attended, the difficulty of their academic major, the quality of their work experience -- not just how long they've been working, but what they've been doing, what their responsibilities and accomplishments have been, what their career advancement has looked like, what their career goals are, and if those goals are well-aligned with their prior experience. Of course, the interview, the essays, and the recommendations are important too. The interview, by the way, is required of all of our applicants, so that we can get to know them on a more personal level. We look for people who demonstrate the personal qualities that we think it takes to succeed, not only in the academic environment, but also in terms of their future career. Are we admitting people that are going to make a positive impression on recruiters? Do we admit people that have a clear idea of where they're heading and what it takes to get there? So as we really get into reviewing a file, we're not just looking at the numbers, we're looking at the other qualitative measures that many times can be a more important indicator of future success than, say, the GMAT. Q: How do you assess the admissions triangle: the GMAT, GPA and work experience? GMAT scores have been steadily rising over the last 5-10 years. Owen's Class of 2001 averaged a GMAT score of 631. How important is it for this year's applicants to be somewhere near that average? And do you evaluate scores holistically or break them down by individual section? A: We look at it in a holistic way. The total score is important because that's a benchmark most people can identify with. The GMAT still remains the only common element in the application process that's consistent for every applicant. Everyone has to take it; it's a standardized test, and it gives us some benchmark of the likelihood of their success in a graduate management program. But then, we also dig a little deeper, and we look at the quantitative score, at the verbal score, and the written (AWA) score. We generally like to see candidates who have at least a 50th percentile or better on every section of the GMAT, as well as their total score. Q: Do you evaluate an international applicant's GMAT score in the same way as a U.S. applicant's? A: We look at all candidates equally. At the same time, we do realize that candidates from certain backgrounds do not perform the same on standardized tests. For instance, minorities or international students from certain countries may be below average for all test takers, or they may be well above average for all test takers. As we review applicants, we start by treating everyone the same, and we have to make some judgment calls as to the strength of a particular individual, given their academic background, their cultural background, and their professional background. So we don't apply cutoff scores. There are no minimums, but generally, candidates who are successful in gaining admission to our program have at least a 600 GMAT, at least a 3.0 GPA, and have performed well on each section of the GMAT and/or the TOEFL (Test Of English as a Foreign Language), demonstrating good quantitative skills and communications skills. They've also succeeded in their academic experience in quantitative courses that they've taken at the undergraduate level. Q: Are there certain courses on a transcript that you look for applicants to have completed? A: The only requirements we have are that candidates complete a college-level calculus course, as well as a college-level statistics course. We will consider applicants that have not completed either one of those courses, and if they're eligible for admission, we'll make an offer conditional upon successful completion of either or both courses before their enrollment. Other than that, we admit students from all different academic backgrounds. We don't require that people have prior experience in finance or economics or accounting. But clearly, some preparation in those fields can be helpful in the transition into business school. And since we have a modular curriculum -- which means that we've split the semester in half, and we're teaching courses in 7-week modules, as opposed to 15-week-long semesters -- students can't afford to fall behind. So we offer some review camps over the summer. One of them will be offered online this year, and the other will be a campus-based program. We also provide some review camps for English preparation, in addition to the ESL programs that the university provides. We want to give people the best chance they have to prepare themselves for success in our program. Q: International students sometimes do not adhere to a grading standard measurable under the GPA format. How do you evaluate those types of files? A: My colleagues and I have divided responsibility for international candidates by region. I, for example, spent two weeks in Latin America this fall. This is the third time I've been on this trip, both with Vanderbilt and with Emory, so I've come to learn a little bit more about the Latin American market. Our manager of international relations has, for the past few years, spent quite a bit of time in Europe representing our program, as well as travelling to the Asia MBA tour, which we do over two weeks every year. So she knows the Asian and European markets. During the review process, I'll consolidate all the Latin American files, and sort them into the different countries that those applicants are from. And because I'm familiar with the grading system in those different countries, having made contacts with academic advisers and with schools on my visits to those regions, I've gotten to know more about the academic standards in each of those countries. So we'll sit down, and oftentimes we'll consult with a member of our faculty who may be familiar with a particular region of the world. We may consult with some students from a particular country to get their feedback on what the quality of [a certain] institution is really like. How difficult is a particular course of study? What's the quality of the company that this person has worked for? We really try to pull people that have the strongest credentials. That means that everything doesn't translate to a 4.0 grading system. We realize that, and we try to deal with it appropriately. Q: The amount of applicants' work experience is also on the rise. And many of the top B-schools are subscribing to the philosophy that students with more experience will have more to share in the classroom. What's your stance? A: We don't believe in requiring prior work experience. We have avoided adding that as a condition of consideration. It's my firm belief that there are some really talented individuals coming directly out of undergrad who are exceptionally bright, who have tremendous leadership experience and potential, and who may have some great internship experience that will allow them to contribute on some level. On the academic side of things, we're looking at their intellect, their critical thinking skills, and their analytical skills. On the personal side of things, [we're looking for] somebody who's shown a track record of involvement in leadership in outside organizations. Someone that's a good communicator and has a strong professional presence, I think can earn the respect of their classmates and the faculty even without post-baccalauriate, full-time work experience. Q: Do you accept a certain number of candidates with a specific amount or type of work experience? A: No, we don't have quotas for any aspect of admission to our program. Based on the make-up of our applicant pool from one year to the next, we try and make our best guess as to what's reasonable for us to expect to be able to enroll in our program. We may want to initiate some marketing programs to try and increase the number of minority applications we get, so that we can enroll more minority students in our program. Or we may try and increase our marketing efforts in other regions of the country or world, so that we get more applicants who come from different cultural backgrounds. We may go after some folks who have two or three years of consulting or i-banking experience, who are good prospects in terms of the professional experience that they will bring to the program. It runs the gamut, and I don't think there's any special formula we use to try and figure all that out. We want good people in our program, and the diversity tends to take care of itself. For a program our size, the fact that we have students from about 35 or 40 different countries says a lot about the environment we offer here at Vanderbilt. Q: You mentioned that you now require applicants to complete an interview. Last year, 100% of the school's accepted students were interviewed, and, in fact, you and your staff actually interviewed more people -- on campus and on the road -- than the number of applications the school ended up receiving. What's the thinking behind the school's heightened interview effort? A: Well, it's a tremendous commitment, especially considering the fact that only members of the admissions committee -- the five professional staff members in my office -- are the ones who conduct all those interviews. But that's how important we think the interview is. Someone who looks good on paper, in terms of their academic and professional background, may not be a good fit for our program because they don't present themselves professionally in an interview. Or, for some international students, their English abilities may not be at a level that we think it takes to be a contributor and participant in our program. The interview tells us a lot, and we use it to try and fill in some gaps that aren't covered in the application, through the essays, the recommendations, and work history. All those things tell us a lot about a candidate, but when we can sit down with them face-to-face, or talk with them on the telephone for half an hour, we can really learn a lot more about an applicant and are better able to assess their fit with our program. Q: Are one's chances of acceptance significantly lessened by a bad interview? A: It depends how bad the interview is. Is a bad interview enough to knock somebody out of the process? By itself, probably not. If everything else is strong, and the only weak spot is the interview, what we might do with a candidate like that is offer them a place on the waiting list, and give them an opportunity to strengthen their file by interviewing with the admissions committee again, if the committee thinks that that would enhance their chances of admission. We have a limited number of places in our class, so we have to be selective in the offers that we make. Candidates that only have one thing wrong with them, we probably want to keep them active for further consideration. Folks that have many different things wrong with them probably would not stand a good chance of admission. Q: What does the Owen interview actually look like? A: It's really a pretty informal process, although we do use a structured format. All of my staff are conversational in their style. We have a small and personal program at Vanderbilt, and that comes through, not only in the fact that we interview every candidate, but that a member of the admissions committee conducts all the interviews -- not a student or an alum. For the actual interview itself, we usually start by just a quick overview of the candidate's background, [discussing] where they've gone to school, what they've done since then, and in particular, what they're doing now in their career. Then we talk about their plans for the MBA program, and their plans for their future career. But the heart of the interview consists of several questions we ask that are behavioral in nature. We ask some questions to try and assess the candidate's maturity and judgment, and critical thinking skills. We try to see whether they are a self-starter, and whether they have strong initiative or not. We look for evidence of good team skills and interpersonal skills, and then we also like to find out a little bit about the other B-schools that candidates are considering, so we have a better understanding of the competitive situation that we're in. Q: Does asking candidates, point-blank, where else they are applying tend to throw them off? A: We don't throw that in there to knock anybody off-track. I could probably count on one or two hands the number of times, over the past four years, that I've had a candidate object to a question like that and have them be uncomfortable in sharing that kind of information with us. One of the things that that [might suggest to us is, the question of] how serious the person is about pursuing an MBA degree. Have they taken the time that we think it takes to evaluate all the different options they have available to them? There are 750 or 800 different MBA programs in the United States, and probably another 600-700 around the world. So there are a lot of options out there. And since we're recognized by several different sources as [being in] probably the top 3%-5% of all the business schools in the world, we want to know what other schools a candidate is considering. Do they really understand what the different programs have to offer? Do they understand what's important to them in a business school? Have they taken the time to learn, not only about Vanderbilt, but about some of the other options that they're considering? [Responses to those questions] give us another insight into candidates' critical thinking, analytical, and research skills. Q: You've added another question to the school's required application essay section. What exactly are you trying to get at through Vandy's three essays? A: The questions are very similar to what they've been in the past. The first essay asks about how the candidate's prior academic background, their work experience, and their career interests have led them to pursue an MBA at this time. Again, we're looking for the commitment and planning that's been involved in reaching this decision. We want people who have strong self-awareness. They understand what their strengths and weaknesses are. They understand where they're heading in their career. And they've identified some things that they need to do in order to get from here to there, and hopefully, the MBA degree fits in there in a logical, realistic way, for them to achieve those goals. The second essay asks about their future career plans. How will the MBA degree help them succeed in that future career? What is it that they're going to learn in our program in particular that they don't already know, that will enable them to pursue their career goals? Then, the last question asks about their expectations of Vanderbilt. What do students expects from us, but then, also, what can we expect from them in return? We have a small but diverse global community here at Owen and throughout the world, with our alumni base, and we want to know what people expect of us. We want to know how they're going to contribute, not only in the classroom, but in extracurricular activities, in alumni activities, and after they've graduated. Those are the questions we ask, and they not only help us evaluate candidates' written skills -- their ability to express their ideas clearly, with good grammar and spelling -- but to also understand why they are applying to business school, and specifically to Vanderbilt. Q: Generally speaking, what type of recommender are you hoping to hear from? A: In an ideal situation, we would hear from the candidate's current supervisor. Or, for those folks who have run their own businesses, or are uncomfortable or unable to ask a superior for a recommendation, given the impact that that might have on their current work situation, perhaps we would hear from a former supervisor. Then we see recommendations from clients or vendors that [applicants] have worked with on a fairly frequent basis. The most important thing to us is that we get recommendations from people who can assess the candidate's ability to succeed, not only in the academic environment, but in their career, in positions of leadership and management. Are they good communicators? Do they have good analytical skills? Do they get along well with other people? All those kinds of things come through in the recommendation. For those candidates who are applying for admission right out of undergraduate, an academic recommendation is something that can be very valuable. But we hope that the academic recommendation tells us something more than just, "This student earned an A in my class. They were one of the best students I had that year." We can see that from the transcripts. What we want to hear is, "This student worked closely with me as a research assistant," or, "I was an adviser to this student's organization, and these are the new initiatives I saw them pursue, and the achievements that they saw as a result of their efforts." So academic recommendations are good, but the professional recommendations tend to tell us a lot more. Obviously, recommendations from friends, work associates that are peers or subordinates, from family members... they generally don't tell us what we're looking for, and tend to be somewhat biased. Most people find that identifying two people who can provide the kind of input that we're looking for is not a difficult task. Q: When assessing a recommendation, do you look more closely at the graded grid at the beginning of the evaluation, or at the written response section? A: We start by glancing at the grid. And again, because we only ask for two recommendations, it's not too hard for somebody to find two people who will say really nice things about them. So the grid doesn't tend to tell us a whole lot. When we start to read the comments, and we see what kind of relationship this person has to the applicant -- say, [the recommender was] a direct supervisor for the last three years -- then that starts to lend some credibility to the comments that we see. When we ask [in the recommendation] who [the recommender is] comparing the applicant to -- is it other people that have applied to business school? Is it other MBA graduates? -- then we get more context around those things, and have a little more faith in the evaluation. We ask [ourselves] about strengths and weaknesses in the recommendation. Do [the responses] support some of the other things that we've learned through the interview, and through the essays, or do they contradict [them]? When we start to see a pattern that is well-aligned, and the recommendations support the other things that we've learned about the candidate, then that's what we like to see. When we see a lot of conflict, then that makes us uncomfortable. It may not be enough to deny a candidate, but if it's one of several different things that just don't fit together right, then the chances of admission are greatly diminished. Q: Once you've received all the aspects of a file, how do you and the admissions committee proceed? A: We don't review any applications until they're complete -- that includes the required personal interview. Once everything has been assembled, the file goes to a member of the admissions committee which consists of myself and the five other assistants and associate directors in the office. One of us will read the application. We go through some worksheets that we have, to help us put the candidate into perspective with the entire applicant pool; we read through the entire application, and hopefully we get a good feel for whether the candidate is admissible or not. For those candidates that kind of fall somewhere in the middle, we may ask another one of our colleagues to also review the file, or we may ask for input from a member of the faculty, or from the Career Management Center. The last thing we do in the decision process is meet as a committee at least twice a week -- more frequently when we're getting close to notification deadlines -- and we go through each application. And the person that reviewed a file presents its qualifications, along with their recommendation to either admit, deny, or place on the waiting list. Afterwards, we discuss [the applicant's candidacy] as a group, and reach a consensus. If we decide to offer the candidate admission at that point, then we'll go ahead and decide whether or not the candidate is worthy of any merit-based scholarships or fellowships. We turn our decisions around very quickly. We promise to send admission letters out within four weeks of our deadline, and when candidates are offered a place in the class, they get their letter of admission as well as the financial aid admission they need to make a well-informed decision. Q: Do you evaluate applications on a country-by-country basis? A: One of the things we've done a little bit differently this year is wait to review files closer to the application deadline, or just after the application deadline. We've done that with all candidates. In the past, we reviewed applications on sort of a rolling basis. But when I had an opportunity to really dig into the numbers and see what the application trends are like at Vanderbilt, I learned that only 20% of our applications arrive in the first round, 35% arrive in the second round, and 40% arrive in the third round. So we decided that it would be better for us to hold the applications as long as we can, so we can evaluate applicants' credentials in comparison to the rest of the pool, whether they be international or domestic candidates. If we wait longer and review more files in a shorter period of time, it's more work for us, but we feel we're able to make more informed decisions and admit the best [that way]. Get BusinessWeek directly on your desktop with our RSS feeds.  Add BusinessWeek news to your Web site with our headline feed. Click to buy an e-print or reprint of a BusinessWeek or BusinessWeek Online story or video. To subscribe online to BusinessWeek magazine, please click here. 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