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FEBRUARY 24, 2000 B-SCHOOL Q&A: ADMISSIONS Meet Georgetown's Admissions Director A Conversation with Bob Wheeler, the Assistant Dean and Director of MBA Admissions at Georgetown's McDonough School of Business
Q: Bob, you're new to the admissions process at Georgetown. But you bring a unique perspective to your job because you recently graduated as a member of the school's MBA Class of 2000. The school has implemented many changes into the program, beginning with the hiring of Chris Puto as dean a year and a half ago. What other changes came about, during your time as a Georgetown MBA student, that you feel will influence today's applicants to apply to the program? A: One of the major things we did two years ago is revamp the curriculum. We broke it down into modules rather than semesters, so we could emphasize certain functional areas more strongly than others. In the first year, we provide the core knowledge that students need to be strong managers, and then give them the opportunity in the second year to take electives. In addition, we have a series of integrative courses where we kind of stop along the way, to see how [all of the course work] fits together. In the second year, the high point is what we call the Global Experience, where every second year student ends up working on a consulting project for a company in one of four cities. This year, the cities are Buenos Aires, London, New Delhi, and Hong Kong. Students work in teams of six or seven on different projects, which range from marketing to finance to strategy, for major multinational companies such as Amazon.com and Daimler-Chrysler. Students started working at the end of December and will work through till March on the projects. At that point, they'll fly out to the city and present their results to management. So it's a hands-on management consulting opportunity with a strong international component. We've done that successfully with our executive MBA program and have now made it part of our full-time program. Q: Many B-schools are infusing technology along with globalism into their course work and day-to-day operations. What's Georgetown doing on that front? A: We make use now of Blackboard.Dot in our classes, so that professors and students can interact electronically as well as in the classroom. And, in addition to having new e-commerce courses, we also infuse e-commerce aspects into marketing and finance [course work]. Q: Of course, e-business has become all the rage at B-schools over the last year or two. But it, at present, is not the school's forte. What is? A: We're a program on the move, and the three major areas that students go into are finance, consulting, and marketing. The most recent Financial Times survey ranked Georgetown fourth in the world for the size of our alumni salaries in the finance field. Q: Do you feel then that finance is the school's flagship academic area? A: Finance, marketing, and strategy. I don't think I can pick one of them.
Q: Is the McDonough School building an expertise in new academic areas? Or is it expanding on the foundations it has laid in finance, marketing, and strategy? A: It's building on foundations that have been there. We've become stronger in them. One of the things we've done is that we definitely look a little bit more at the quant part of the GMAT. We're not a purely quant school, but we think it's important that students be able to master certain areas. And so we look at that a little more than we used to 10 years ago. Q: Let's talk about the Georgetown MBA admissions process and your role in it. How has the school's curricular evolution affected the way that admissions is currently performed? Is Georgetown now attracting a different type of applicant pool? A: We're international in orientation and have a strong pool of international students. In fact, last year, 41% of our entering class was international. We normally range between 30% - 40%. And last year, we kind of just came up to that point. I think we receive applications that are numerically stronger now than we did in the past. But we really look at the whole admissions package, and, as a result, students who may not have the GMAT or GPA that meet our averages are still very much in the ball game if they have a strong work background or a good interview. Interviews are an important part of the Georgetown admissions process. Q: What stamp are you trying to put on the school's admissions process? Are you placing a new emphasis on the interview? A: We've always been heavy on interviewing at Georgetown, but we're now trying to take it to another level, where we're interviewing even more people. We believe that you have a real opportunity to find the measure of a person by seeing them face to face or talking to them on the phone. (Obviously, we'd prefer face to face, but, in many cases, that's just not feasible.) We want to give people the opportunity to [expand on] their application, and explain things if there are things that need some explanation. I've said this going to the MBA Forumsand tours that I've been on this year: We believe if we get [prospective] students to an info session and a class visit and they have an opportunity to talk to the students here who truly are the strength of our program, then we've got them [hooked]. Q: The school is certainly building off of some momentum: In 1998, Georgetown's MBA applications totaled just over 1,825. The following year, they totaled about 100 more at 1,923. How are you greasing the wheels to perhaps grow that application base even further this year? A: We've got a number of initiatives we've done. We had a whole marketing campaign where we sent a series of different kinds of mailings to people who expressed an interest in the school. For instance, we sent out to everybody who asked for a brochure, what we call an exec card. It's a CD-ROM, about the size of a business card, and it fits in your computer. As part of the CD-ROM, [applicants] see a five-minute presentation about the school. And then a series of other bits of information occur at the end. But it's a video with a narration and we're really proud of it. Q: Are you utilizing any other technologies, perhaps leveraging the Internet, for example, to cast a wider net? A: We've done some basic overhaul on the Web site -- we actually just redesigned our admissions Web site. It'll be unveiled in the next two to three weeks, if not sooner. And it will be easier to navigate, and will [disseminate] more information. In addition, this year, we'll soon post a Web site specifically for accepted students. Q: So far, have these efforts been paying off? Where are applications at this point in the year compared to last year at the same point? A: We're a little higher. I can't tell you exactly because we get a lot of applications right on the February 1st deadline. But we are running a little ahead of last year. We also hope to -- because of our marketing efforts -- have a strong finish in the months of March and April. Q: Georgetown operates several application deadlines. The final domestic deadline is April 15th. And the final international application deadline just passed on February 1st... A: Well, that's not actually true, and this is something that's a little unclear and will be made much clearer in next year's application. February 1st is a recommended deadline for international students. Because of the problems we sometimes have if there's a visa question or just getting information back and forth, we like international students to apply as early as possible. However, they are eligible to apply right up until April 15th. And we consider them just as with any other applications. Q: And, in fact, applicants have a little bit more flexibility in terms of time because online or digital applications arrive instantaneously. What application options does Georgetown have available? A: We have the application online that can be downloaded off our Web site. And we have a link with Embark.com which is an online application service. (Editor's note: Georgetown also accepts the MCS Multi-App electronic application.) Q: Embark and several other vendors, such as GradAdvantage, are developing, along with UVA's Darden School, back-end software in order to one day move to a completely paperless application process. A: We're looking forward to that. We have PeopleSoft's admissions package. And one of the things that has been promised is that there will be a tie in between Embark and PeopleSoft. We had hoped that that would be in place by now, but it has not yet occurred. Q: Is that because of some kind of technical glitch? Or because of the speed at which the bureaucratic channels of higher education operate? A: It appears to be something of a glitch. We've been trying to find someone who's been successful in tying Embark and PeopleSoft together. And we haven't really found someone who has done that. But we would very much like for that to occur. Q: At this point, are you finding more applicants taking advantage of the online medium? Or is there still a level of distrust on the part of Georgetown's applicants who are opting to do the pen-and-paper method? A: No, a lot more people are going online. You can see the difference already. We've exceeded the total number that applied last year online here in the middle of February. Probably between 20% - 30% of this year's applications have come to us online. Q: How much easier is it for you, in terms of the evaluation process and information gathering, to receive an application online rather than the old- fashioned way? A: Unfortunately, at this point it's about the same because of the fact that [digital application data] is not going seamlessly through our data base. We have to manually enter application data into our database -- regardless of whether we've received an application via the Internet or the mail. We understand that we're supposed to be able to get the [online] service to be seamless. But we haven't [achieved] that yet. In the meantime, it makes no difference [how we receive an application]. We want to provide [prospective] students with the opportunity to apply online, so that's why we have Embark. But it doesn't matter to us which way you apply, whether you apply through the mail or by Embark. Q: Bob, this is your first time heading up an MBA admissions effort. Is there any particular aspect of an application that you tend to look at first when reviewing it? A: We don't really look at anything first. Let me just kind of give you a quick overview. We have minimum TOEFLs [Tests Of English as a Foreign Language] of 600 on the paper and 250 for the computer. But, quite frankly, because we do so many interviews, we're a little bit flexible with those scores, to the extent that we actually talk with someone, [get a feel for their abilities], and are comfortable that they'll be able to actively participate in the program. We don't have a minimum GMAT. We look at the whole application. We read the essays. We read the recommendations. And we don't have cutoffs for GPAs. We generally look for a minimum of two years work experience. We've changed a bit from the past in that we now have two people read through an application, and then have a third evaluate it if there's a difference of opinion. Q: While the school might refrain from using cutoffs, the elements of the admissions triangle -- the GMAT, GPA, and work experience -- have all been rising, and the standard that today's applicants need to meet is increasing. For example, Georgetown's average GMAT went up by five points from the Class of 2000 to the Class of 2001. The average amount of work experience increased by a full year. Do increasing admissions triangle credentials affect your evaluation methodology at all? A: There are people with GMATs that are below the [overall] average, even well below our average, who present themselves well either in their application package or in an interview. And we've accepted those people. So I absolutely agree that our GPA and GMAT standards are higher, but we still are literally looking at every aspect of an application. Q: You mentioned earlier that you're focusing a little bit more on applicants' quant abilities. Does that mean that you're now paying more attention to the GMAT quant section? What's a healthy GMAT score, broken down by section? A: Again, we don't have set numbers. But we're looking for people to score somewhere in the 60% - 70% [range] in the quant [section]. That's not a minimum, though. We have enrolled people who scored below and above that. But [a higher] quant score is an indicator of success in our class -- though not necessarily success as a business person. But we have a rigorous first year curriculum and this helps us insure that people are going to be successful. If you don't have those kinds of numbers, then we start looking at your courses in the transcripts and see if you've taken statistics and calculus courses. Q: There are those, for example, from liberal arts backgrounds, who score tremendously well on their overall score, but when you actually break it down, there's a wide disparity between their quant and verbal scores. Do you suggest that applicants retake the GMAT when their section scores vary widely? A: I wouldn't encourage someone to retake the GMAT [if they've scored an overall high GMAT score]. We are going to look at the whole picture. Q: Would you feel the same way if, let's say, an applicant's GMAT section scores were heavily skewed toward the quant side? A: Well, then we have the TOEFL to look at. And we also, more than likely, will talk to someone in an interview, if we have a concern. We think we're going out of our way to make sure we get people who not only have good test-taking ability and a strong academic record, but people who may be better at presenting themselves in an interview, or who present their overall record in such a way [that potential employers would be persuaded of their abilities]. In fact, I had one of those cases today. I said, we've got to figure out how to get this person in because he's just very good... [These applicants'] GMATs may not be up to what we would normally think of as kind of a range, but we're certainly going to talk to this person and see if we can't get them in because they really are tremendous. Q: Are there any particular classes an applicant should have completed in his or her undergraduate experience, or maybe at a community college, before attending the school? A: We require that everyone take a calculus class prior to attending. They don't need it prior to applying. But once they're accepted, they should plan to take it at a community college, if they haven't already taken it prior to coming to school. The other course that I took before I went to business school was statistics. I hadn't taken it in undergrad, and I found it very valuable. We do provide an opportunity prior to the beginning of the regular course for a statistics review. But if somebody hasn't had any statistics, I think they would do well to take a course at a community college or any local school. Q: Do you look for those types of courses to be on an applicant's undergraduate transcript? A: It's a plus if you have them, it's not a negative if you don't. Q: Earlier, you mentioned the school's high percentage of international students. Do you perceive the GPA and the undergraduate transcript differently, depending on whether the application comes from somewhere in the United States versus somewhere abroad? A: We have a manual that shows us where different countries' grades come in relative to the U.S. For the purposes of our review, we do the adjustment. We've found that to be fairly reliable. Q: Do you feel it's harder for foreign applicants to get into U.S. B-schools based on lower international-student class representation and increasing international applications? A: Our U.S. pool is larger than our international pool. The acceptance rate of U.S. applicants out of the total pool versus international applicants out of the total pool is very similar. So, in that sense, I don't know that it's harder for an international applicant [to get accepted]. We really pride ourselves on our international reputation and the fact that all our courses are wrapped around international themes because we think we're training the global business leaders of the future. And, therefore, that's one of the reasons that 41% of the Class of 2001 was international. We want something like a third of the student body to be international, but we don't break it down to an exact number. Q: What type of work background enhances an applicant's candidacy? A: We have two different things we look at. One, we believe diversity in work experience adds to the quality of the class, particularly in terms of the case work we do. We do either 50-50 or 60-40 case work/lecture, and having different viewpoints to attack a problem is a very positive thing. The other thing we look at is where you're coming from and where you want to go. We want you to be successful, and we don't just want to accept you and not be able to deliver on the kind of position you're looking for. A lot of people [enroll] who are changing careers and we have a lot of people who come who are enhancing careers. Changing careers is not a problem. But you have to have something in your background that has transferable skills to the direction you want to go in. If you're a high school English teacher for the Peace Corps, those are skills that could well be transferable to consulting in education or working in nonprofit. But if you, without any other background, say, "I really want to go into investment banking," that's going to be difficult because employers are not going to be interested in hiring you. Q: What does "quality" work experience look like to you? A: Quality work experience [includes] some sort of increasing level of responsibility. We're willing to look at [applicants who have worked in] all different kinds of jobs, but no matter what the job, you have to have [had] a leadership position. That's a "quality" kind of work experience, as opposed to saying, we're looking for people in finance or marketing. We do want those people, obviously, but that's not the only people we're looking for. Q: Bob, you're a Georgetown MBA alum, Class of 1999. And you're somewhat of an anomaly because you graduated from the program at the age of 46 -- you were quite a bit older than the school's average 28-year-old student. What's the best way to position oneself and take advantage of being an older and wiser applicant? A: There are those who want to stay in their jobs while attending school, and they should go to our executive MBA program. But for those who want to go to school full-time, age is not going to be a barrier. What we're looking at are the same kinds of things in the work experience. If you have strong work experience, that's going to be a big plus. We look at what you're going to bring to the class, what kind of background. After a number of years, we look less at the GPA and more at what kind of work you do. So I don't think you position yourself any differently. Whether you're an older student or not, you need to know where you want to go. Business school is not the place to discover where you want to end up. You need to have some idea, because when you come here, you're going to get the general, core knowledge, but then you need to pull down the skills that you're going to need specifically. If you want to end up in marketing and all you're taking is finance courses, that's not a good thing. You need to know that going in. Q: The school is increasing its interview efforts. Last year, you estimate that 50% of Georgetown's overall applicants were interviewed by a member of your staff or perhaps a student who's been hired to work part-time for the admissions office. What's that percentage shaping up to be this year? And what would you like it to be ultimately? A: We'd love to end up interviewing everybody, ultimately. We just think the interview allows us to really gauge who a person is. That won't happen this year, though. This year, we'll interview 60-plus percent of our applicants. One of the things we've done is we have a number of second year students that have gone through an extensive training program with me and my staff. And they are interviewing with us now and their comments carry as much weight as a staff member's comments. [Come decision time], the interview is one of the things that can push you up over some of the other areas that you may not be as strong in. Q: How long does a Georgetown interview tend to last? A: The interview, itself, will vary a little depending on the person [who conducts it]. But it probably runs somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes. Then we like to give an opportunity for the applicant to ask us questions. When we start, we try to make the applicant comfortable. We don't think we're doing a trick interview. We talk about their latest work experience, then we'll ask them questions on leadership and group projects. And then their goals, which they've already dealt with in the written part of their application but they now have an opportunity to talk with us about, face to face, and give us a better idea of exactly where they're going. Q: How can applicants best prepare themselves for a Georgetown interview? A: The main thing, as in any school, is to make sure you've read the basic materials -- whether that includes the online brochure or other information on the Web site. You don't want to ask a question that's clearly something you could have easily found in the [school's promotional material]. You want to come in with something which indicates that you've done the research. Maybe you ask something about a course. It doesn't matter what it is, but it shouldn't just be: Tell me about your MBA program. Q: Can you describe some major interview faux pas? Besides the obvious. A: Well, one I had not long ago was the guy who kept trying to read my notes upside down. It was a little strange. We give you an opportunity in the interview to be yourself, and I think in 95% of the cases, it works to people's advantage. Don't try to puff yourself up. We make the interview conversational so that we have an opportunity to learn a little bit about you and, at the same time, make sure [the school is] going to be a good fit. I know there's the desire, obviously, to get the acceptance letter. But you don't want to be accepted to the wrong program. And the interview is an opportunity to find out more about our program. We've run hour-long information sessions every day, so that applicants coming in have an opportunity to see a presentation, ask questions, take a tour of our new facilities, and talk with students. So we try to give applicants lots of opportunity to learn about us, and we want the interview to give us an opportunity to learn a bit about them. Most people do best just being themselves rather than trying to present themselves in a way that they're not. It comes across if you don't [be yourself]. Q: Can an interview make or break an application? A: Oh yes. Q: Does it significantly lessen an applicant's chances of acceptance if he or she is unable to schedule an interview with your office? A: No, it doesn't significantly hurt; it does significantly help if you have a good one, though. And truly a high percentage of people who interview have good interviews. So it helps you to have it. We'll do telephone interviews too. Q: Can any student schedule an interview? Or is that done by invitation only? A: [Prospective] students are the ones who initiate the interview. It tells them that in the instructions on their application. There's a phone number they can call, or they can send us a fax, or we have an e-mail address. So they can initiate that. Or we may decide, if the admissions committee goes through a file and [is on the fence], to request an interview. Q: Everyone has to respond to the school's essays. What are you hoping to elicit from those essays? A: One of the things I notice in reviewing applications is that a huge number of the applicants have a strong volunteer base, they've done a lot of things. That's one of the things we're looking at. We have an essay concerning goals and where Georgetown fits in. And that's very important. Our interest is getting people who understand what Georgetown's MBA is all about, who take the time to give us some sense of what their fit is. An important thing to address in an essay is not just what your goals are -- which should be as specific as you're able to make them -- but also where Georgetown fits? How are we going to help you? The other thing we ask in another essay is what the most significant change you've made in an organization is. (Editor's note: Georgetown's 1999-2000 MBA application includes two required essays and one optional: 1. "What is the most significant change or improvement you have made to any organization with which you have recently been or are currently affiliated? Describe the process that you went through to identify the need for the change or improvement to the organization, how you managed the process of implementing the change, and describe the results." 2. a) "In one or two sentences, please state your short-term and long-term career objectives." b) "How have your prior academic, personal, and professional experiences influenced your career plans?" c) "Specifically, how will MBA studies and your participation in the Georgetown MBA Program contribute to your career objectives?" 3. "Optional: The Admissions Committee welcomes any additional relevant information you wish to include in support of your application. If necessary, please comment on your academic record as an indication of your potential for graduate management education and/or any unexplained gaps in your work history. If you are currently not employed full-time, please comment and provide information about your current activities.") Q: I understand that the school operates an unconventional wait list. Can you describe how it's run? A: We offer people the opportunity to come on our wait list. And they have to accept it to actually end up on the wait list. Once you're on the wait list, we don't rank you. People find that hard to believe, but it's really true. When we draw from the wait list, we go through the files we have and find out the kind of interest people have shown. We have people who have called us and indicated a strong interest in the program. That's a plus from our standpoint. Q: What's the turnaround for response, be it good, bad, or maybe? A: We say six to eight weeks, but we try to make it a lot sooner than that... five to six weeks, if possible. Get BusinessWeek directly on your desktop with our RSS feeds.  Add BusinessWeek news to your Web site with our headline feed. Click to buy an e-print or reprint of a BusinessWeek or BusinessWeek Online story or video. To subscribe online to BusinessWeek magazine, please click here. Learn more, go to the BusinessWeekOnline home page  | | FEBRUARY
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