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FEBRUARY 14, 2000 B-SCHOOL Q&A: ADMISSIONS Meet Emory's Admissions Director A Conversation with Julie Barefoot, the Assistant Dean of Admissions and Career Services at Emory University's Goizueta Business School
Q: Julie, you have one of the longer tenures of all of BW Top 50 admissions officials. A lot has happened since your first day in Emory's admissions office in 1988. What are some of the major changes you've witnessed in the MBA admissions arena? A: Number one is the international reach, in terms of what we do as admissions officers, recruiting for applications and then reviewing them. We're really [trying to ensure] that our schools, in terms of their student bodies, represent the global business world that companies operate in. It's important that we reflect that. When I started at Guiozeta, maybe 10% of the class were from outside the United States. Now it's one-third -- and that's true in any of the leading schools. And more importantly, [the international student bodies are] broad. [They] could [comprise] a third of the class and only represent a few countries. But we've worked diligently through our recruiting and strategy efforts to ensure that they represent a wide variety of countries. Our students represent 45 different countries. We're really proud of that. The other major change is technology. Technology has affected much of the admissions process. For one, it's increased the speed with which candidates can access information. Candidates now request information via the Web. They can apply via the Web through online applications. Technology has flattened organizations tremendously. When I interview candidates at a fairly young age, I see that they are very computer literate and computer comfortable. That's partly because of the flatness of the organization... They can take on a lot of responsibility within their companies and they are managing some really good projects, and those are wonderful pre-MBA experiences. So technology has impacted the kind of experience candidates coming in the door have. It's changed the teaching structure. Q: How so? In what way has technology and globalism altered the school's curriculum and teaching philosophy? A: A couple of ways. First of all, in 1997, we moved into a new building that is state-of-the-art in technology. But frankly, all the top schools are doing that. Technology and globalization, in my opinion, are not differentiators. You've got to be teaching students in that realm. Obviously I'm biased, I think we do a very good job of that because we have a beautiful new building that offers our students access to the Web in every classroom and study room. That tells students that we value technology and we expect them to use it. Our faculty [use it]. For example, let's say a finance professor is talking about the SmithKline Beecham merger. He or she can access the client's annual report right there [in the classroom] by going to their Web site, or see what's going on [through] Bloomberg. They can do all these things right there in the classroom and put that information up on a screen, [called a] whiteboard. It's real-time learning. Q: Is the school's teaching philosophy attracting a new type of applicant? A: I think it is. We've seen a significant increase in applicants who have aspirations to go into areas of e-commerce and things like that. Frankly, we've had a significant increase in people who are going into consulting. Consulting represents about one-third of our class and, of course, consulting [involves many different] technological issues. It might be re-engineering. It might be installing or strategizing on what kind of software a company needs to move to. No question, recruiters expect Goizueta MBAs -- and those from any top program -- to graduate with [a techno savvy]. Because our program is small, students get a lot of hands-on experience. They have a lot of ways that they can work on projects, through field work classes or through a marketing and strategy competition where they can use technology. I think [our emphasis on hands-on experience] is a real advantage, so that [graduates] are comfortable when they leave here.
Q: Are a lot of Goizueta's current students enrolling into the program with a fair amount of tech savvy? A: I think so, though not every student does. Let me put it this way -- very few students come into the program who aren't at least comfortable at a base level in using computers. A quarter of our class are engineers. I don't want to be misleading -- it's not that everybody who comes into our program is a technological guru. But [the class as a whole] embraces technology and it's something that, if students come in with a liberal arts background, they're going to graduate [with a level of tech comfort]. Q: Work experience is one facet of an applicant's profile that a lot of folks in your position are attaching more importance to. What's your stance? A: That's the most important aspect of the application that we look at, though it's not the only thing we look at by any means. Obviously, we're looking at academic record and performance and quantitative aptitude and leadership and other aspects, but if a person doesn't have work experience that they can share in our classroom, then they're just not a good candidate for our program. Q: For those who don't have a particularly large amount of work experience, is it beneficial to at least demonstrate a high academic aptitude? Or are one's chances so slim already that deferring admission is the best course of action? A: Great question. If a person has less than two years of work experience, it's going to be very unusual for them to be accepted into our program. If they are looking at our JD/MBA program, or one of our other joint degree programs, then we'll look at those individuals a little bit differently. We have a JD/MBA program as well as an MBA/MPH (Masters of Public Health) program, and then we also have a joint program with the theology school. So we look at those candidates a little bit differently because we know that the other schools [who offer one half of the joint program] are not looking at the work experience in the same light. But for the vast majority of people coming into our program, if they have less than two years it's going to be highly unusual. Now you might say, 'what is it that they have to have then?' First and foremost, they have to have a stellar academic record. They have to have -- in addition to having some work experience -- very strong internships. A perfect example would be someone who's been a co-op student. [Their candidacy] depends on how the [prospective] student talks about his or her experiences in an interview as well as in their essays and [whether] it's confirmed in a letter of recommendation. We read the whole application. Generally speaking, a person needs from three to six years of focused work experience where they've shown progression in their career, where they've taken on responsibility, and can show that they added value to their company. Q: Work experience is one of three legs in the "admissions triangle," the other two being the GMAT and the GPA. Those two measurements have been rising precipitously over the course of your tenure at Goizueta. Members of the school's Class of 2001 averaged a 645 GMAT and a 3.3 GPA. How important is it for this year's crop of applicants to meet last year's standards? A: It's important, but I do think we have a range around that average, and I would never want to tell a candidate that the GMAT is the be-all and end-all because it's not. Neither is the GPA. Really, we look at the whole package. We do look in particular at the quantitative scores on the GMAT though, and in terms of grades, we want to see that they can handle the course work. But we want to see someone who also shows a lot of leadership and who has, as I said, strong work experience. So let's say that someone has a 590 or 600 GMAT, but they have strong work experience and their letters of recommendation confirm that they have really added a lot to a company. We would welcome that candidate's application. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage somebody [from applying] just because they scored below our GMAT average. Q: Just how important is the quantitative section of the GMAT? A: If we have a baseline, I'd say that if someone scores below about the 50th percentile on the quantitative part of the GMAT, that causes us a great deal of concern on the committee. We actually have done analysis [on this]. And we've found that people who scored below the 50th percentile on the quantitative section of their GMATs almost always do poorly in quantitatively-oriented courses like statistics -- what we call decision information analysis -- during the first semester. That gets them off to a really bad start, and those are fundamental classes for future study. So that's something we look closely at. We've found that the 50th percentile marker for the GMAT has been an accurate predictor of academic performance in our program. Q: One way to get at an applicant's leadership potential is through the interview, an aspect of the admissions process that your office seems to be placing more emphasis on. This past year, the school interviewed about half of its overall applicants, but as many as 95% of those that the school decided to extend an invitation to. What's the thinking behind the heightened interview effort? A: Once again, we've found through analysis that we've done -- [derived from faculty and recruiter feedback] -- that [the interview is an excellent way] to ascertain, in a more personal way, the depth and quality of the work experience, and the teamwork and interpersonal skills of an applicant. [Evaluating those character traits] is essential to making a sound admissions decision. We don't always [interview] in person. We do a fair number of telephone interviews with our international applicant pool, and we have [still] found it to be extraordinarily helpful in ascertaining what a person would really contribute to class discussions, and in getting a better sense of their work experience. Can they talk about their experiences? Can they share those experiences in an insightful way so that in a case or class discussion, they are going to add value? You'd be surprised how many really bright individuals, on paper, aren't able to do that. We're a small program, it's one of our hallmarks. That's why a lot of bright students come here -- to be part of a community of scholars and students. They want to be in a highly team-oriented [environment]. Again, [the interview] gives us a good feel for how flexible a person is. Recruiters want people who are good team members and that's something they tell us they really like about our students. We can learn about a person's [teamwork skills] in an interview. We're one of the few top-tier schools that has most of its candidates come to campus to interview with a member of the admissions committee. We're really proud of that fact. And this year, we also have about a dozen of our recent alumni who we've trained to be part of our interviewing committee. So when a person interviews, [candidates] are going to interview most likely with the decisionmaker for their file. Q: How many different people do the interviews? A: We have about eight people. We have a core team of about five, and then we have three other people that have worked in our office previously. They are now working in other administrative roles within the school, but they serve ex-officio on the admissions committee. Then, as I said, we have a select group of recent alumni. I say 'recent' because it's important that they've [been a part of the current Goizueta experience]. We're constantly enhancing our curriculum, and it's important that they know what the experience is like for our current students. That's why we have recent alumni also interview students on Saturdays. We offer Saturday interviews to make it easier for students to come interview. Q: Does it matter whether one interviews on campus, over the phone, or abroad at a reception? A: I don't think it does. Obviously, we'd like people to interview on campus because we're really proud of our building. Our students run a visitation program, where they take applicants to class and lunch. Then applicants go through an evaluative interview. My colleagues and I interview throughout the world, and the quality of the interview is very similar if not the same. The same kinds of questions are asked. Q: How long do interviews tend to last? A: About 30 to 45 minutes. It's difficult to interview somebody for less than that time. Occasionally we have to do that because when we're overseas at a fair or other recruitment event, the volume is a lot greater. But we certainly want to be thoughtful in the interviewing process, and we want to leave the interview with a good sense of the depth of the person's work experience, of their career progression, and also get a sense of making sure we understand where they want their career to go after the MBA. And, as I mentioned earlier, the interpersonal skills are really important. Q: How can one best demonstrate the types of interpersonal skills that you're looking for during an interview? A: First of all, be yourself. Our interviews are not intended to be stress interviews. There are no trick questions. We want it to be a positive experience. That's one of our goals. So be yourself, be relaxed. The best way [to demonstrate interpersonal skills] is to give examples of what you've done in the past, whether that means highlighting your involvement in community projects in college, or serving in student government, or being a Resident Advisor in a dormitory... those types of things. One of our students has been instrumental in organizing triathalons within his neighborhood. He also did it at his worksite before he started here and now he's done it within the school. So he's a real athlete, it's something he really enjoys and obviously knows a lot about. Leadership [can be demonstrated] on the job. It could be that you're able to demonstrate [leadership] in a particular project you were assigned to at your company. There are a lot of different ways to do it. There is not any one particular thing that we're looking for, because each person is different and personal interests are different. So what we're more interested in is what ways you've shared with others and enhanced your community... basically made a difference. Q: The essays represent another way for aspiring business school students to articulate what it is they'll add to the classroom. What do you hope the school's essay questions will elicit? A: I hope they enable us to get a fair and clear understanding of the person's reasons for the MBA and their future plans -- how their career to date, [and then] with the MBA [added], will enable them to reach those plans. Another aspect is the aspect of leadership. The candidate has an opportunity in a two-page essay to give examples of where they've accomplished something, and how they were a part of achieving a goal or having a positive impact on an organization. Our goal is to admit future business leaders, and those people have demonstrated that their past is a good predictor of the future. A third thing that we really like to see [in the essays] is a sense of who you are as a person. Hopefully that's going to show a sense of humor or sense of interpersonal skills. I realize that's somewhat difficult to get across in an essay, but you'd be surprised how it can come through. We have two-sentence completions which are essays that we on the committee thoroughly enjoy reading. They're a lot easier for people to write because they can write from the heart. They talk about their family, or they talk about an interesting cultural experience they had. We can tell just in the energy of those essays that [applicants] have a lot of fun writing them. (Editor's note: Goizueta's 1999-2000 essay questions include: 1. "List one of your most significant professional or organizational accomplishments. Describe your precise role in this event and how it has helped to shape your management skills. Two-page word limit." 2. "Please complete two of the following statements. One-page word limit. a. I have always wanted to... b. My family background is unique because... c. The greatest challenge I have faced... d. The greatest lesson I have ever learned... e. My most memorable cross-cultural experience..." 3. "What do you hope to be doing five years after completing your MBA? What experience and attributes do you possess that would make you a good fit for that position? Two-page word limit.") Q: Can applicants take themselves out of the running by writing shoddy essays? A: Yes. Sometimes, applicants just don't answer the question. Some candidates do not explain why they want the MBA and how the MBA is going to enable them to get whatever job it is they want [come graduation time]. They spend a lot of time regurgitating their resume and then they leave a sentence which basically says: I'm going to do this... I'm going to be a brand manager. Well, they need to think in terms of: this is what I've done and these are the skills I have, and this is why I'm interested in being, let's say, a consultant. We are fairly tough. We expect the essays to be well written, and that the candidate can communicate in a well-organized fashion that has a beginning, a middle, and a conclusion. And we expect [the essay responses] to be fairly insightful. I realize that individuals are not philosophy majors, but we expect candidates to have thought about their work experiences, their life experiences, and then share them with us. Sometimes it seems clear in an essay that the candidate maybe hasn't resolved some underlying issue that they happen to bring up in the essays. And that's not necessarily good. Q: How important are the recommendation forms? Are you a bit jaded by them, especially given that the majority just seem to extoll applicants' virtues? A: Well, you are certainly right in saying that most of the letters of recommendation we receive are positive. Overwhelmingly, the individuals applicants select [as their recommenders] suggest that they be admitted to our program. That kind of goes without saying. Occasionally though, we will have a letter of recommendation that is not particularly favorable, and that's extraordinarily damaging. Obviously, the candidate has no way of knowing [when that happens], but it is very damaging when clearly they selected someone whom they thought would write a good letter and the person did not. But you're right in saying that most of the recommendations are positive. We're able to differentiate in two key ways. One is that on our letter of recommendation, we have a comparative grid and that grid is quite [informative] for us because it actually forces a recommender to [grade] the candidate along a number of different dimensions. And while usually a candidate is going to be good in a couple of areas -- perhaps they'll be highly rated in their analytical skills or in their maturity -- it's rare, even in a favorable rec, for them to be top-rated in all categories. So that's one way we can get a better sense of the depth of the strength of a particular candidate. The other way, of course, is [through the written response section]. That's quite subjective, but we have a lot of experience in reviewing letters of recommendation. Over the years I've reviewed probably 60,000 - 70,000 letters of recommendation. And all I can tell you is that when you read the [recommender's] comments, you can tell by the way they're phrased how enthusiastic he or she is about a candidate. We take those comments very seriously. Q: How does your office actually review an application once it arrives? A: Once the file is complete, it's given to a member of the admissions committee -- one of the individuals I alluded to earlier, a professional who has read countless other applications. That person reads the application in its entirety, and does a write-up on it -- usually it's a paragraph or more. Then we meet as a group on a regular basis -- maybe once or twice a week -- and the person that read the application presents the application to the entire committee. We actually go through all the aspects of a file and talk about the candidate. The person who reads the file makes a recommendation: admit, waitlist, or deny. And then, generally speaking, that decision is what stands. If there is not unanimity among the [committee] -- which there usually is -- then the file is read again. Some applications are read quite a few times. If we feel we need more information about [an applicant] -- perhaps we're not as familiar with the [candidate's] university -- then we'll [utilize] our other resources. For instance, we have a person who's in charge of our international programs who might help us and read the file. Our director of the MBA program might read the file. We have a couple of faculty members we've relied on if they have knowledge about a particular part of the world that we may not be as familiar with. So we really want to give the application a thorough review until we can reach a consensus on it. Q: On average, how many times is a file actually reviewed? A: The average is probably one to two [times], I guess. But it's not unusual to have [a file be] reviewed maybe two or three times. Q: Emory has three admissions deadlines. Do folks who are waitlisted during the earlier rounds get re-evaluated in the next application cycle, or do they get put aside until the end of the season to be re-reviewed at that time? A: It depends. We typically don't look at our wait list until the early part of the summer -- say June, but sometimes late May -- after everyone has been reviewed. However, we do encourage our wait list candidates to contact us if they have any questions. If, for example, they have additional information that they believe will enhance their candidacy, perhaps a promotion, they [should let us know about it]. It could be that they received new GMAT or TOEFL test scores, or an A or B grade in a statistics, calculus, or micro-economics class. Many of these classes might add strength to their application. If [something like] that happens, then we will re-review the file at that time. It could be that the decision will remain the same and they'll stay on the wait list, or they could be removed from the wait list. That happens. Q: What's the best strategy to pursue in order to move oneself off the wait list and into the Goizueta classroom? A: Follow up with the admissions office. It doesn't need to be every day, but certainly letting us know that you're interested [in attending the program] is really important. Somebody will not be removed from the wait list if they haven't told us that they're interested in [enrolling] in the class. But almost everybody that's on the wait list does let us know [of their intentions]. But certainly share information with us to let us know you're doing whatever you can to enhance your candidacy. In some instances, that may be [letting us know that you're] retaking the GMAT. It could be [letting us know that you're] taking a math class, or it could be that you're just getting a little more work experience. Q: And for those who don't make the cut this year, do you provide feedback for them to build on should they decide to reapply next year? A: We do. If they've been rejected, we ask that they contact us in the summer, or certainly after the busy season, just because of the volume [of applications] that we have to deal with. But yes, we do provide feedback, and we have some really nice stories of candidates that we've worked with who have enhanced their candidacy and are in this year's class. For an admissions officer, that's a very rewarding experience. Get BusinessWeek directly on your desktop with our RSS feeds.  Add BusinessWeek news to your Web site with our headline feed. Click to buy an e-print or reprint of a BusinessWeek or BusinessWeek Online story or video. To subscribe online to BusinessWeek magazine, please click here. Learn more, go to the BusinessWeekOnline home page  | | FEBRUARY
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