Sherry WallaceNorth Carolina at Chapel Hill Kenan-Flagler School   STORY TOOLS Printer-Friendly Version E-Mail This Story UNC INSIDER CONTENT Admissions Q&A Admission Interview Tips Sample Application Essays School Tour UNC PROFILES Full-time '04 | '03 | '02 | '01 | '00 | '99 | '98 EMBA '03 | '01 Exec ed '03 | '01 UNC INFO Admissions Q&A '02 | '99 | '97 Placement Q&A '04 | '00 | '98 Financial Aid Q&A '99 | | Dean Q&A '01 Video Views Dean Steve Jones | Dean Robert Sullivan B-School Calendar Search for articles about UNC UNC RANKINGS Full-time MBA rank: 2004:   16     1994:   18     2002:   18     1992:   10     2000:   15     1990:   12     1998:   19     1988:   8     1996:   19     BW ranking history EMBA rank: 2003:   5     1997:   --     2001:   5     1993:   --     1999:   --     Exec Ed rank: 2003:   20     1997:   13     2001:   18     1993:   --     1999:   13     1991:   10     [an error occurred while processing this directive]

Our guest on December 15, was Sherry Wallace, director of admissions at UNC-Chapel Hill's Kenan-Flagler Business School [19th on BW's 1998 Top 25 list]. Sherry is a Tar heel alumna, having received both her BA in broadcast journalism and Spanish, and her MBA (1987) from UNC. She acquired a variety of corporate experience prior to becoming KFBS's admissions director in 1998. Her professional background includes stints as an account exec for Kraft General Foods, a product manager for Bubble Yum, and a marketing director in Skybox International's basketball product area. These days, she's making waves at KFBS: last year, she upped the school's international student enrollment 6% and also increased the female and underrepresented minority student populations. Ms. Wallace was interviewed by Business Week Online reporter Mica Schneider . Here's an edited transcript of that discussion:

1999-2000 Kenan-Flagler Admission Profile

Total Enrollment 521 Full-Time Students 521 Tuition/Board $18,505/$6,055; $7,695 Female 28% Non-U.S. Citzens 27% Underrepresented Minorities 10% Applicants Accepted [Selectivity] 27% Applicants Admitted [Yield] 53% Number of Applicants 1,825 GMAT Avg. Range 641 460-750 GPA Avg. Range 3.3 2.3-4.0 Work Exp. Avg. Range 4 2-11 Domestic Deadline(s) 10/22/99 11/19/00 01/14/00 03/10/00 Int'l Deadline(s) N/A Fin. Aid Deadline(s) 01/14/00

Q: Sherry, you received your MBA from Kenan-Flagler in 1987. Just how much have things changed at KFBS since your MBA student days?
A: The biggest difference has to be the diversity in the classroom and the diversity of experiences. [Also], the competence of the applicants. I entered the MBA program in 1985, and our average years of work experience weren't where where they are now. It's incredible to me how talented the candidates are these days. And when you're in the hallway, you may hear three or four different languages. It has a very rich and cosmopolitan feel.

Not to mention the building. I got my MBA in the stately Carroll Hall, which is wonderful in that it's part of the main campus, and it was beautiful, but it is nothing like the professional campus environment that's here now. (Editor's note: In 1998, KFBS unveiled it's new state-of-the-art McColl Building.) Today, there are also many more technological possibilities: everybody has a laptop. When I was in business school, my classmates and I had one friend with a PC, and we'd all go over to her house to do our projects. It's just a little bit different now.

Q: Sherry, you are relatively new to the MBA admissions arena, having been hired by KFBS to lead up its recruitment and admission efforts just two years ago. What are your goals as the school's admissions chief?
A: It wasn't a big leap [for me] as an alumna [to become the admissions director], because I've been fairly close to the program over the years. And since I worked at companies that recruited MBAs right out of school, I was quite active. There are a number of things here that we do not want to erase, such as the camaraderie, the sound general management background, the sense of learning from others, and the rapport with the faculty.

But in terms of how to take that [foundation] and thrust it forward, given some of the new directions that our new administration is bringing in, the two critical pieces are global relevance and technological leadership. We need to make sure that what we bring in at the front end [of the MBA program] gives us the type of student profile that we are looking to have here for two years. And that applicant should match with what the school stands for.

Q: What type of student profile are you looking for? How can KFBS applicants demonstrate that they're a good match with the school and its learning philosophy?
A: First, the applicant [has to be able to] excel in a rigorous environment. Because we've been known historically for our leadership skills, our camaraderie, and quality of life, we [haven't] emphasized enough that applicants need those [strong academic] features. Before any [leadership aspects become relevant], you've got to be able to [perform well] in a classroom. So the first thing we do is make sure we can assess the quantitative and analytical abilities of the applicants, as well as their motivation to excel in a classroom environment.

After that, we look for the things that make the [applicant] exceptional. Most of our applicants can do the work. It becomes an issue of which of our academically gifted applicants merit being in Kenan-Flagler's program. That's where the other abilities, [for instance] the [applicant's] track record of leadership, global awareness, and sense of purpose in the world beyond the U.S., come into play. That's been the most profound aspect that I've added to the admissions process.

And this [new focus] is something a lot of applicants don't get. They really need to be people who are aware that business is global. We see some candidates who have great numbers, but they've been living in a little world, in a little silo that has no connection with anything outside of their own comfort zone.

Q: Indeed, UNC has devoted a lot of resources to its focus on global business and technology. In the fall of 2000, Kenan-Flagler will inaugurate an international executive MBA, parts of which will be delivered online. How will the school's traditional full-time MBA applicant be impacted by the presence of this program?
A: A lot of things that are electives now are going to be requirements. UNC has just completed a new core curriculum, which was approved in November. It's a business school package [of courses] that will evolve. When you look at what happens in technology and in the world, and if you're not constantly reviewing and assessing what you're doing, you're going to find that you're teaching irrelevant subject matter and you've wasted two years of students' lives.

Also, we've stepped up to the plate and committed the [full-time MBA] program to a significant number of people who have spent their lives outside of the U.S. In our first-year class, the Class of 2001, almost 31% of the students are non-U.S. citizens or non-permanent residents. Students can't help but to learn and absorb when every other person next to them represents a culture, country, economy and a way of doing things that's different from what they grew up [knowing]. And many of these people are from emerging economies that are really going to be where most of the growth opportunities are for MBAs in the future.

Q: How can an applicant best demonstrate that he or she has the international perspective that you're looking for?
A: Some applicants show it through work experience. Other candidates may be working for multinational firms. But you'd be amazed at how many applicants now have studied abroad as part of college, and how many have learned several languages. It's a cultural piece as much as it is an educational piece.

Still, every now and again you'll get an applicant who, for whatever reason, hasn't had the opportunity to study abroad or doesn't find themselves working in a company that's Swiss-owned. But the [successful] applicant has a way of showing an interest and appreciation for global significance. They show it through the extracurricular activites they're involved in, or through the people who they hung around with in college... Even if you never studied abroad, most colleges have many international students. Did the applicants find themselves interacting with [the internationals]? Did they embrace learning about new cultures?

And [having a global perspective] isn't just about working outside of national boundaries; it can be [the candidate] showing [the admissions committee] that they've done something outside their comfort zone. Have they always been in an all-male environment or all-female environment? Do all of an applicant's activities line up with his or her own socio-ethnic group or is the candidate a person who seems to cross boundaries?

We actually have an optional application essay that asks people to tell us about their international involvements. When I finish reading a set of essays, if I don't feel that I have a sense of who that person is -- in addition to how they think and whether or not they analytically attack a problem -- then that person hasn't impressed me. That person probably won't impress the committee very much either.

Q: From which countries does UNC attract most of its MBA candidates?
A: Right now, about 40% of our first year international students are from Asia, primarily from China, India, and Japan. Thailand has also been very strong for us because we have a relationship with the Kenan Institute there. The next largest segment would be Latin America, with applicants hailing primarily from Brazil, Peru and Mexico.

It seems [as if] the numbers have been creeping up for a while. The immersion elective trips that we do -- bringing students abroad for about two weeks -- usually give us a chance to hold a reception in the area. That way, prospective students can mingle with some current students.

Eastern Europe has actually increased quite a bit, too. We've started to see growth there, with Turkey being very strong. The countries of the former U.S.S.R. are also starting to come on pretty strong since we joined the Muskie Foundation this year.

Q: What is the Muskie Foundation?
A: The Muskie Foundation offers fellowships. A government agency founded it in the early 1990s for students from former U.S.S.R. countries who are interested in studying in the U.S. Universities have to agree to be a host school, and we obviously review and choose [whether or not to] admit [Muskie] applicants. We've got two fantastic students -- one from Russia and one from Armenia -- this year, that we were able to get through Muskie.

Q: Many schools, including KFBS, request financial statements from non-U.S. applicants. Does an applicant's financial status carry any weight when you're reading an application?
A: That's not used as an assessment of the applicant's candidacy. We certainly require the proof of funding for the visa to get here, but it doesn't come up [to] the point of it affecting our decisions.

Q: Let's talk about technological leadership -- the second quality your admissions office seeks in its candidates? How is such a strength assessed? Is this where the GMAT and GPA are employed?
A: No. But those are screeners that help. When it comes to asking if a person can do the work, and hold up to the rigor, we look at the GPA in terms of what they've done in the past that would [give an idea about] this. We look at the GMAT to see what that path suggests. We also look at the nature of their job. Are they performing in a quantitative industry or position now? What do recommenders say about them? And sometimes, you get the red flags about people's quantitative and analytical abilities just by what their bosses say about them.

But other times, such as in the case of a candidate with a liberal arts background, we look at their [undergraduate courses] to determine how a person might do in our program. Calculus is one [class that we'd look at]. Microeconomics, probability and statistics, and financial accounting are others. What makes us comfortable is when we see a candidate who has had these college-level courses and has received As and Bs. If we get an applicant who either hasn't had these [courses], or has had them and did not perform in a superior manner, we're going to have some concerns.

Q: Can UNC's Analytical Skills Workshop come into play when an applicant is short a quantitative course or two?
A: I hate [the suggestion] that it's a remedy because, frankly, most of our students elect to come. Last year, about two-thirds of the incoming class [participated in the ASW], because most of them had been out of school an average of about five years. They wanted to have the opportunity to get acclimated to being a student again. There's a strong bond among the people who come to ASW. And by attending the workshop, naturally the networking starts early. The other thing is that we have some very driven and competitive applicants who want to make sure that nobody's further ahead of them when the program starts.

Generally, there are some candidates that we may conditionally admit if they do [certain] things. One of those things might be ASW for review. But for someone who has not had any exposure to some of these concepts before, ASW is not enough. More often than not, [in that case] we're going to suggest you take a full-blown college course. A lot of times, maybe the applicant has had micro and probability, but never taken an accounting course. You don't want someone who is behind everybody else in all three of those areas because that student is going to have problems.

Q: Many schools claim that the earlier an application arrives, the better. Does Kenan-Flaglar tend to accept more applicants from its first two admission rounds?
A: No, we don't. We don't have quotas that we set aside. We take good applicants when we see them. The risk is that if we don't see [your application until the spring], we may not have known that you were out there and already taken some other good applicants before you.

This year we're going to try to allow a little bit more time to make sure that we have an opportunity to enroll the best in the pool. But I also think that people may have gotten the message that you'd better not wait. We saw our first deadline applications double to about 350 this year. It looks as though, by our preliminary count, our first and second deadlines combined are running about 45% to 50% ahead of last year.

Q: What do you attribute that growth to?
A: Well, there's been a positive buzz out there about Kenan-Flagler. In the admissions office, we hear [applicants saying] time and again, whether it's to schedule an interview or talk to somebody, "You're one of the few programs that I can actually get a person on the phone." And if someone leaves a message, between e-mails and phone calls, within a day or so, we can get back to them.

Q: UNC's MBA applications peaked at just over 2,000 during the 1995-96 season. Last year however, the school's app total fell to 1,825. Given this year's early increases, do you feel the school's applications will rebound?
A: Yes, I expect [us to recieve] somewhere around the 2,000 or 2,100 [total applications this year]. This past year was the anomaly, where it slipped to around 1,800. And the reason for that is Kenan-Flagler's changing relationship with the Consortium for Graduate Study in Management, a group of 12 schools [that encourage enrollment of under-represented minorities in graduate management programs by providing full-tuition fellowships]. Consortium applicants fill out one application that is then routed to all of the [participating] schools that they are interested in. That saves them from having to do 12 different applications.

Well, while Kenan-Flagler continues to be a member of the Consortium for Graduate Study in Management, we no longer use the Consortium's group application. Starting last season, Consortium applicants interested in attending Kenan-Flagler were required to submit the Kenan-Flagler application in addition to the Consortium application. We believe that many would-be applicants were unaware of this change and therefore, did not make it into our applicant pool last year. There were about 250 fewer of Consortium applicants in our pool last year than the year prior. (Editor's note: Two other Consortium member schools -- Berkeley and UT-Austin -- have instituted similar policies.)

Q: What different ways can an MBA candidate apply to Kenan-Flagler?
A: Applicants can download the application and fill it out; or use Embark, or Multi App. Applicants can also request a hard copy to fill out. Next year, we should be up and running with [our own] online application, but that's not the case right now.

Q: How would you ideally like to receive applications?
A: It doesn't really matter. For me, it's whatever is best for the applicant. Once our online system is up, that will probably be most efficient for us because the time that we're spending keying in data would be reduced and we could perhaps spend that time making contact with prospects.

Q: Does that mean Kenan-Flagler may soon phase out its hard copy applications?
A: I can't imagine that we'll ever phase them out, because there are just too many people who still enjoy that [method]. We're certainly seeing increased applications this year through Embark than we had last year. More and more people want to do it electronically. But there are still parts of the world and parts of the country where paper and pen applications work best.

Q: What qualifications should UNC applicants be most concerned about: their GMAT scores, GPAs, or work experience?
A: Well, maybe we can do some hierarchy of needs here. If an applicant doesn't have the work experience and leadership, it doesn't much matter what his or her GPA and GMAT are. They should ask themselves, What do I have to contribute? Am I someone that Kenan-Flagler is going to value having in a classroom, as an alum, and an ambassador for the program? Frankly, they can assess that before even taking the GMAT.

The second step [is for the applicant to ask], 'what is my GPA saying about me? I'm ready, but are [admisson committees] going to be impressed?'

The third hurdle would certainly be the GMAT. What happens -- and I wish I could get this message to all of the applicants out there -- is that many applicants think of the admissions decision as, 'here is the bar and I have to meet that bar. If I do all of these things, then of course, the school will admit me.' What they don't understand is that there are tons of people who have done the same things. We still have to sort and take the best of the best. A lot of times, the applicants are disappointed, they don't understand.

Q: What's the difference between the the school's pile of accepted and denied applications?
A: The accepted applicants [are those] who clearly rank among the top in all of the different criteria that we look at: work experience, grades, GMAT. But there's also something about them the class would not be able to get if that applicant weren't admitted. They tend to be applicants that have some uniqueness, some special qualities and experiences that you don't get a dime a dozen.

Q: Is that "uniqueness" something applicants can demonstrate in an essay?
A: Yes. They can demonstrate it in an essay in terms of their personal experiences, or on the personal data sheet, or by listing the types of things that they're involved with. They can really demonstrate it in the personal interview, too. That's why I would encourage any applicant to take 30 minutes before an admissions representative and state your case.

(Editor's note: Kenan-Flagler requires its 1999-2000 applicants to answer three essay questions:
   1. "How will your professional experience when combined with an MBA degree allow you to achieve your short-term and long-term goals?"
   2. "What obstacles have you overcome to achieve your goals? How do these life experiences distinguish you from other applicants?"
   3. "Two of your largest competitors are merging. You have been asked to brief your company's board of directors on the implications of this merger on your company. Describe the process you would follow in order to assess the implications. Mention the areas you would explore, what questions you would raise and where you would go for answers.")

Q: What questions should an applicant expect to field during an interview?
A: They vary. A lot of times, the applicant's resume dictates what types of questions are asked. I am a firm believer in not wanting to spend a 30 to 45-minute interview asking you the same things you've just written about in the essay, or in the application. I prefer to spend the time getting to know the applicant. It lets me find out what's important to them.

I see the interview, which is usually on campus, as [a chance for the] applicant to get a sense of Kenan-Flagler. They need to take advantage of the opportunity to say, Do I want to be here? Do I like the way I feel when I'm in this environment? Do I see this as something that's going to be beneficial for me?

I often ask why they chose some of the [extracurriculars] that they're in. Or I ask about the criteria they used when they chose their undergraduate institutions. Sometimes that criteria seems to fit why they are interested in Kenan-Flagler, sometimes it can be a whole different approach. I may also ask them how they compare this [admissions process] with the one they completed at age 17.

We spend a lot of time talking about the meaningful things they do in their time away from their job. Sometimes we may talk about life in Chapel Hill, because they have family. Many times we talk [about the school experience] because I'm an alum as well as an admissions director. Sometimes they ask what being a Kenan-Flagler MBA has meant to me -- "What are the differences in the program from when you were here in the 1980's and now?"

Q: Who are the best people to complete Kenan-Flagler's recommendations?
(Editor's note: KFBS recently reduced the number of recommendations it requires applicants to submit from three to two in an effort to attract more applicants and to cut down on paper. )
A: Given that we're only asking for two, it is critical that applicants pick two people who are going to really be able to tell the story that needs to be told.

We prefer that people [who have] observed the applicant in the workplace complete the recommendations. I understand that it's not always politically correct to ask your current employer to give you a recommendation. So I tell candidates to make a note of that in the application if that's the case. Taking the time to say, 'please note that I have not included my whatever-whatever because they don't know that I'm looking at schools' is something we need to hear.

But most of the time, the applicant has a previous employer to use [as a reference]. The applicant may have clients that he or she works with who can attest to [his or her] professionalism and the impact that the applicant is having on the company. It's just much more helpful for us to get a business-oriented recommendation because we're looking for evidence of the applicant's leadership, ability to create change, and organizational and analytic abilities.

[Academic] recommendations, on the other hand, don't add a lot of value, because we can tell what kind of student you are by looking at your transcript.

Q: How long does it usually take for the admissions committee to make a decision?
A: Well, October 22nd was our first deadline this year, and the responses went out on December 10th.

Q: How many people does UNC place on its wait list?
A: It varies. Our wait list is a little different, perhaps, than some programs. We review the wait list of candidates with every deadline. So if you're a first deadline applicant, and you get placed on the wait list, you don't have to wait till June or July to find out whether you'll ever come off. In the second deadline, we also go back and look at all of the applicants from deadline one placed on the wait list. And we throw them into that pool again so they are now competing within this new context.

And sometimes those candidates will rise clearly to the top of that pool and they'll get an admission decision at that point. Sometimes, they clearly will not be admitted. And sometimes they may still be in the murky middle, in which case they'll get another wait list decision.

Q: How many people actually make it off the wait list?
A: Again, it varies. This year we are probably utilizing the wait list more heavily. Last year we were in a position where we had more people than we expected accept our offers. Our yield rate increased about 6%. And being a new admissions director, I had not allowed enough room in case something like that happened. We were in the position where, by our last deadline, we already had enough acceptances to guarantee our class was full. Very few people, if any, came off the wait list in the final deadline.

Q: Sherry, any last words for MBA hopefuls?
A: I'd like to remind applicants of this: it's one thing to consider what UNC looks for. It's another thing [to consider] what you are looking for. We spend a lot of time trying to gauge whether or not you're going to be happy at Kenan-Flagler. And that's why it's so important to us that the three essays tell us about who the applicant really is.

I know that there are people for whom this [MBA program] may not be the best choice. And it would be much nicer if we could all come to that conclusion at the beginning of the admission process, especially since there are people out there who are just coming to get, as I say, their foreheads stamped with the MBA credential.

UNC students want that credential, but they also want to be a part of something and to contribute something in the two years they are on campus. These are students who want to come here and leave a mark, who want to help create something. That's an aspect that an applicant needs to consider, because that's the environment they're going to be admitted into at our program.


Get BusinessWeek directly on your desktop with our RSS feeds.

Add BusinessWeek news to your Web site with our headline feed.

Click to buy an e-print or reprint of a BusinessWeek or BusinessWeek Online story or video.

To subscribe online to BusinessWeek magazine, please click here.

Learn more, go to the BusinessWeekOnline home page