Judy Heilala Arizona State University   STORY TOOLS Printer-Friendly Version E-Mail This Story

Our guest on December 7, 1999, was Judy Heilala, director of recruiting and admissions for Arizona State's College of Business [elected to BW's 1998 Next 25 grouping]. For 18 years, Judy has led the recruiting and admissions effort for the ASU MBA Program. In the mid 1990s, she served on GMAC's MBA Recruiting Service Task Force. She has also served as president of the College of Business Staff Development and is a founding member of ASU's University Career Women. Judy herself holds an ASU MBA. Ms. Heilala spoke with Business Week Online reporter, Mica Schneider . Here's an edited transcript of that conversation.

Q: Judy, what new initiatives have you put in place to attract more students to Arizona State's MBA program?
A: For one, we're continually adding new things to our Web site. And this year, we are recruiting in South America for the first time. I am sending information down there with an organization that does recruiting in the area. Being in the southwest, we really should be doing more recruiting in Central and South America. Twenty percent of this year's class is comprised of international students, and internationals make up 26% of the Class of 2000. I'd like to have more [students] from South America. We have some from Brazil. And we do get students from Mexico.

In addition, we're starting an exchange program with a school in Lima, Peru. We already have an exchange program in Toulousse, France, one in Madrid, and another in Mexico City. Now we'll have one in South America. But most of the time, students will be coming [to Tempe] from [South America].

We've also added a new sports business concentration to our MBA program, and have just admitted our first class. Because Phoenix has all the major sporting events, we thought that this would be a good concentration for some students to pursue. We don't expect graduates to be sports managers, we expect them to be working for organizations or companies such as the Olympic Committee or Nike. They'd be working in the finance, accounting, or marketing departments ... [and participate] in the business side of sports.

We'll offer one [sports biz] course this spring that is taught by our athletic director. And the bulk of the courses will be offered in fall 2000. All of those courses are being designed specifically for the program.

Q: Does admission to the sports business concentration require a different professional or athletic background than your typical MBA student? Or does an applicant just have to be a Sun Devils fan?
A: They should have some kind of an interest in sports. They may have played sports, or they may have worked for a sporting company. Some of the students in this year's class have interesting work experience. One of the fellows has done marketing campaigns for two Super Bowls. Another student is a lawyer. It's a select group. We've enrolled ten students into the program this year, and we'll probably admit 15 next year. We want to see what the market is out there.

Q: Is admission into ASU's sports concentration more rigorous than admission into the school's general MBA program?
A: It's looked at a little bit differently than the other concentrations, just because there are so few seats.

Q: In 1999, nearly 51% of the school's accepted students eventually enrolled. What is your office doing to better screen its applicants?
A: You can tell [the degree of an applicant's interest in the program] based on his or her essays. You can hear [the level of their enthusiasm] in their interview and in their letters [of recommendation], too. They say, 'You're my top choice,' or 'I want to move to the Southwest, and I want to work in the high-tech areas in California or Arizona.' Also, a lot of candidates say that ASU is the only school they're looking at. Last year, about 30% of our applicants applied only to ASU's full-time day program.

But we can't only accept those students who say they want to come here because they can always change their minds. We added a preview day this past year in March for accepted candidates. We got them here to see what the ASU MBA program is like, to show off the faculty and students, how friendly it is here, and how much they would gain from being here. Eighty percent of the candidates who attended the preview day enrolled. We hope to convince our admitted applicants to enroll through events such as the preview day. Our faculty have also gotten more involved. They, for example, are now calling admitted applicants to answer any questions they might have about a particular concentration.

1999-2000 ASU Admissions Profile

Total Enrollment 1,048 Full-Time Students 386 Tuition/Board $12,411/$5,259; $6,950 Female 30% Non-U.S. Citzens 23% Underrepresented Minorities 10% Applicants Accepted [Selectivity] 43% Applicants Admitted [Yield] 51% Number of Applicants 990 GMAT Avg. Range 635 500-780 GPA Avg. Range 3.3 2.6-4.0 Work Exp. Avg. Range 5 1-13 Domestic Deadline(s) 12/01/99 03/01/00 05/01/00 Int'l Deadline(s) 12/01/99 03/01/00 Fin. Aid Deadline(s) 03/01/00

We also do some screening before we even send our applications to students. If students are seniors in college, we say, 'keep an eye on us, keep looking at our Web page, and we'll be glad to send you the materials in a year or two when our program will be more applicable for you.'

But we've usually expected about a 50% yield because we are probably a backup school for Stanford and Berkeley and UCLA. And we try hard to show [applicants] what we offer that other schools don't.

Q: Will ASU host more preview days next year?
A: Yes, we will. The students were very impressed.

Q: How many women are applying to the ASU MBAprogram?
A: Not as many as we'd like.

Q: Is the school increasingly marketing its MBA program to women?
A: The director of the sports business concentration is head of the marketing department, so he's getting a lot of advertisement out. We haven't done much in our office. But we will be doing more. That's one thing we've discussed, is that we do need [to enroll] more women.

Q: How does ASU's admissions office go about creating a diverse class? How do you ensure that there is a good balance between men and women, international and domestic students, etc.?
A: I look at what concentrations our applicants are interested in pursuing by reading their essays. [Editor's note: The ASU MBA day program application requires students to respond to the following essay question: "Identify the ASU MBA specialization or dual degree program you plan to pursue during the second year of the program. Specifically, how will completion of this career track or dual degree contribute to the achievement of your career goals?"] Our concentrations are what bring students here. They know what they want to study and what kind of companies they want to go to. Companies come here for people who are studying supply chain management, services marketing, or management because these are areas that few other schools offer.

I look to have a pretty equal number of students in each of our concentrations because we only have so much room in each one. I also take a close look at applicants who may want to do international-related studies and might go to Thunderbird.

We look at the numbers of men, women, and minorities and try to keep it at a number that our program wants. If we have too many international students, it's hard for the placement [office] because most [foreign students] want to stay in the U.S. Although, Phoenix is a great area for job placement at this time ... plus, it's beautiful. But I really focus on [the proportion of students we admit] in the concentrations. For example, if I have too many [applicants] who want [to enroll in the] finance [concentration], I may have to put them on the wait list until some people decline [our offer of admission].

Q: You mentioned that enrolling too many international students can hurt a school's placement stats. What is a B-school's typical international student threshold?
A: I know a lot of universities bring in more than we do. And it's really tempting to bring in more because international students' GMAT scores are very high. That makes them look good on paper. But it is difficult when it comes time for them to get jobs.

Our dean's office has set between 20% and 30% as a target [for international student enrollment]. It also depends on how much financial aid a school has to offer them if they can get visas. It's difficult for some to get visas if they don't receive financial aid. We did lose some international students this year for that reason, but hopefully they'll be able to attend next year.

Q: To apply to the ASU MBA program, candidates have to complete two applications -- one for the MBA program and another for the graduate school. Can a student submit a below average application and still be accepted into the school's MBA program? Which application is more important?
A: Our university is probably like a few other state schools. Arizona State University requires a graduate college application. That application just gets you into the student database at the university. Then [university officials] forward that application data to the MBA program officials, along with transcripts. University officials do transcript evaluations. But the application that is sent to the MBA program is the one that's reviewed for admission.

In addition, if an applicant wants to do our MBA with an added degree -- say, the Masters of Information Management -- he has to send an application to the university graduate college for both programs. The university requires two applications. There's no extra fee, but it can be confusing to students.

In addition to the MBA, students can also pursue our other degree programs, which include a Masters of Accountancy, a Masters of Tax, a Masters of Information Management, a Masters of Economics, and a Masters of Health Administration. All of these Master's programs can be completed within two years, which is a real bonus for students. So if you want a Masters of Information Management and an MBA, you can get a dual degree in two years. At most schools, that takes three years.

Q: ASU accepts both hard copy and electronic applications. Which do you prefer? [Editor's note: ASU also offers a downloadable application.]
A: The online version is the easiest and the quickest, and we do get it faster. To us, though, it really doesn't matter which version an applicant chooses. We want to make it convenient for the applicants -- many of them want to just do it on their computers rather than wait for us to send them the materials. If an applicant is overseas, it could take three weeks for an application to reach them.

Q: Do the people who submit their applications electronically receive notification of their status -- accepted or dinged -- more quickly?
A: Yes, because the application arrives here quicker. We give deadlines, but as soon as all the materials are here, they're evaluated and forwarded to our graduate college with our recommendations. So yes, the quicker we receive an application, the quicker we'll respond.

Q: In addition to Arizona's online applications, what other services are available to applicants to make the entire application process easier?
A: Our MBA concentration coordinators [i.e. faculty] work directly with applicants to distribute information about the program. So anybody who applies is given a lot more information than they ever had in the past. That way students are better informed when they start the program. And once a student is admitted, these [concentration coordinators] work with recruiters [to help students land] both internship and job positions. We are adding more faculty and faculty director-type people to work with the students in the admissions process.

Q: Choose one: An applicant should be most concerned with his or her GMAT score, work experience, essays, undergraduate GPA, or recommendations.
A: I would say work experience, and then the GMAT because we want to see how well they do on the quantitative area, particularly. We're being a little stricter this year on the quantitative area. And we'll look at their transcripts for some kind of completed math course work.

Q: What percentile are you looking for students to fall into on their GMAT quant section?
A: If they're in the 65th percentile, they don't need to have had a calculus course on their transcript. But they should fall at least in the 50th percentile in the quantitative area. And I would like to see at least a 3.5 in the analytical writing assessment (AWA). The average is higher than that for the students being admitted, but that would be about the minimum I would look at. The world is getting more technical and applicants really need those [quant/communication] skills.

Q: What's the average number of times an ASU applicant takes the GMAT CAT? How do you evaluate an applicant who needed to take the GMAT, say, three times in order to achieve a 650 score?
A: If an applicant took the GMAT three times, I might look into it a little bit to see where he or she improved each time or needed improvement. I receive very few applications with more than two GMAT scores. But taking the exam twice is not a detriment at all. If an applicant has taken it three, four, or five times, then [that's a sign that] they're really interested [in attending the ASU MBA program]. And some international students will take the GMAT more than twice. If an applicant's score doesn't get better after three attempts, that to me shows that maybe he's reached his limit. I've seen some students whose scores went down their second or third time.

But I also note that if an applicant's been out of school for quite a while, he or she may not have as high a score. I could be evaluating somebody who looks great, with 14 years of work experience, a great GPA, but not quite a 600 GMAT. I take into account that with that 14 years of work experience, she's just not going to be up on the calculus and geometry that she had back in high school.

Q: ASU's Class of 2001 has an average of five years of work experience. Is there any specific work experience that is favored over others? Should it be business-related?
A: The work experience doesn't have to be business-related. We admit teachers, lawyers, and doctors. And many of our students come from the science areas, while others have engineering backgrounds -- in this year's entering MBA class, 15% are engineers.

Q: Is that more than usual?
A: No, that's really about right. Students with science and math backgrounds make up about 13% of the class. We're also finding that more students are studying economics during their second year because [our recent grads] are getting very good salaries going out into the economics areas. So [an applicant's] background doesn't need to be business-related, it could be in whatever field -- it could be government work, for example.

Q: Let's say that an applicant does have a teacher's or a lawyer's background. How can he or she leverage that nontraditional background in the application? What's the best tactic?
A: The interview really helps. And if they have some leadership skills gained through work, such as community service or volunteer work -- something they do outside of their position -- that could be highlighted in the application.

[No matter what their background,] most of our full-time MBA students want to make a career change. Our concentrations really train them to go into a specific area -- students are going to get at least eight classes in a concentration. So they're graduating and entering the job market well prepared.

We're finding that more companies are looking at ASU now. Ford Motor just took three of our student ambassadors to their Dearborn, Mich. campus last month. And McKinsey is looking at ASU now, which they hadn't done in the past.

Q: Let's talk about ASU's MBA application essays. What big mistake do applicants typically fall prey to?
A: Maybe they use too many 'I's'.

Q: Do you watch for that?
A: Yes, you do notice that. It's like, 'I did this, and I did that.' You want to have it in there, but you want to see more 'we,' 'as a team' or 'we've accomplished this.' Don't start every paragraph with 'I', 'I', 'I'. It doesn't come across that often, but occasionally, when it does, you're not sure how that person will fit in to the culture of the program. A faculty member once said [after reading an application essay saturated with 'I's], "I'm not sure I'd want this person in the class."

Another thing: Don't begin telling us about yourself starting from the day you were born.

Q: ASU doesn't require an interview. In fact, the school's Web site says that students with a high academic standing can probably skip it. But how would do you suggest applicants interested in a sit down, approach the interview?
A: They need to show their motivation to really succeed. Show us what you're going to give to the program. Those are the kinds of things that I really want to know: What will you, as an applicant, add to the ASU MBA program? Have you thought about where you want to go in the future? Does ASU have what you're looking for? Are you a team player?

The biggest thing I hear from my students is, 'Why would you admit someone who doesn't have as much experience who might not add to our class?' Or, 'We want people in our group that can really be helpful to us.' That's why the members of our Class of 2001 average about five years of work experience.

Q: What's the worst thing a student could do during an interview, aside from missing it?
A: We look at puctuality and watch for applicants who can't maintain eye contact, or be clear, or who don't listen to our questions. I've interviewed people who answer every question with a memorized answer that they think we want to hear. I know some of us have asked applicants -- especially the international folks -- questions that are sort of off the wall. That way, they can't have a prepared answer, and may not really be sure of how to [proceed]. But it does make them think.

Q: There are other avenues that applicants can show themselves off to the school's admissions staff. ASU's receptions and forums is one. Do you keep track of the candidates who attend the school's forums? When you're reading through a pile of applications, do you tag the ones that attended forums? Is forum attendance seen as evidence of an applicant's interest in the program?
A: We do track that and keep that in our files. Everybody that's interviewed at a forum or who we've talked to is given credit for it in their file. If they show the initiative to come to an open house or a forum, that is seen as favorable.

Q: Last year, ASU accepted 43% of its applicant pool. What makes an application stand out to you?
A: We know [whether we want to admit an applicant] when we see what they've written about in their essays. [Successful applicants clearly articulate] what they want to do and where they want to go. They have a goal in mind; talk about themselves, giving examples of leadership; and generally show that they're going to contribute to the program.

[Admitted candidtes] may not have the best work experience, but they may have great letters of recommendation and really know where they want to go. Also, participation is really important in the classroom. We want to see that applicants have good people skills.

I realize that the people with the highest GMAT scores are not necessarily the best people for our program. [I'm sometimes more impressed by] somebody who comes in and interviews, or with the person who calls a faculty member that is an alum of their own university [to learn more about the ASU MBA program]. I'm impressed by the people who do that special thing that shows us that they've really researched Arizona State, and have thought about what they want to do and where they want to go.

We had one student who called one of our alums because they'd been to the same school. They went to lunch together. Then this candidate met with another faculty member from the concentration he wanted to pursue. Those two faculty members both e-mailed me and said, "this person is great." So those kinds of things are really helpful to gaining admission.

Q: You're approaching the school's first deadline -- December 15th. What does this year's applicant pool look like so far?
A: It's more competitive. So far, our inquiries have increased 30% this year. We're sending out more applications. Our applications were up 27% last year, and they're already up this year.

Q: Do you plan to accept the same number of students as in years past? Or are you angling to shrink ASU's MBA class roster?
A: We plan to have about the same number of students in the program this next year -- maybe five to ten more. I would say the acceptance rate will probably creep down. About five years ago, it was about 46%.

Q: What message do you have for potential ASU applicants?
A: One of the things that students find is that once they're enrolled and are on campus, they get very good help from the MBA staff, from the faculty, and from other students. In meetings I've had with some of our students, they were saying, 'I interviewed at other schools and I interviewed at ASU, and I just felt that they really wanted me more here. The students were friendly, they took me to class, they answered all my questions, they made me feel important.'

The help from the people that work here, and the atmosphere in Phoenix and the Tempe area is great, even though we're a real large university. MBA students feel they get special treatment.


Get BusinessWeek directly on your desktop with our RSS feeds.

Add BusinessWeek news to your Web site with our headline feed.

Click to buy an e-print or reprint of a BusinessWeek or BusinessWeek Online story or video.

To subscribe online to BusinessWeek magazine, please click here.

Learn more, go to the BusinessWeekOnline home page