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JANUARY 13, 2000 B-SCHOOL Q&A: ADMISSIONS Meet University of Chicago's Admissions Director A Conversation with Carol Swanberg, Director of Admissions and Financial Aid at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business
Q: Carol, Chicago has a few options for its MBA students: the traditional MBA program and the International MBA program. Over the past two years, Chicago has seen a 28% increase in applications across the board in both programs. What is causing that increase? A: We've been seen more in the press. There's been a lot written about us, and a lot of our faculty are in the news, so we're a little bit more visible. By our first deadline in 1998, which was about two weeks after the [Business Week] rankings came out, we had a 12% increase in applications. There are people who apply just because they go down a list of schools and they decide [that Chicago GSB] is where they should apply. In many of those applications, you can tell that the people don't understand what the program's about or what the school's about, and they're just applying because they saw a ranking somewhere. But, of course, rankings don't hurt.
Q: Which of Chicago GSB's two programs is easier to get into? A: We basically have the exact same admission rate and pretty much the same yield [for both programs]. The yield in the IMBA is just a little bit better but that's probably because it's a smaller program. Applicants cannot try to cover their bases at Chicago by applying for both programs. They can only apply for one or the other. Also, the IMBA has a different flavor than the MBA program. For one, it has language requirements; the student are also in school an additional quarter, taking on three additional classes; go on two international trips; and then they do a language assessment at the end of the program to see if they've made progress. Q: Finance, of course, is Chicago's forte, and the school's traditional MBA program -- which is the program that we'll focus on during this conversation -- is heavily quant-oriented. Has the GSB been angling to enroll students interested in pursuing other concentrations? A: We're not going to shape the class because we'd like to have an evenly distributed number of concentrators in different areas. People do change their minds [about what they want to study] once they get to school. There are people who insist they want to go into one area and wind up in another before they get out of school. That's perfectly fine. I believe a lot in self-selection. I think people apply to schools that offer what they're interested in. You'll see a lot of people who are interested in finance apply to a place like Chicago because we have such a strong finance faculty and program. But you're also going to see people apply who are interested in marketing and strategic planning, and lots of other things as well. We don't control the numbers of those people. But what we've found more recently, and particularly this past year, is that a lot of our people who are interested in finance aren't going the traditional route to Wall Street. They're going into finance, but they're going with high tech companies, and they're going out to San Francisco with some start ups and Internet companies. They're still doing finance, they're just not doing it solely on Wall Street. So there's been a little bit of a shift there. What we look for in admissions is more for what the students has thought about in terms of [overall] direction. You don't go to school just because everybody else is. It's a matter of, 'I've thought about this, and decided that this is the right time for me. This is what I think I want to do when I leave.' That may all change once you actually step foot on campus, but it's just having sort of a plan right at the moment, of why you want to do this. That's what we're more interested in from an admissions perspective. Q: How do you ensure that Chicago's Class of 2002 will be a diverse one? A: We don't have any quotas to fill or anything like that. There's no mandate from anywhere within the school that we're only going to take so many students from such and such a country, or that we need to have so many from a particular country or several countries. We're looking for the best students we can find, period. If a good portion of the international students were from one country, that would just be a representation of the applicant pool. Our pool is large enough that [by admitting] 10% of the applicants, the pool will naturally disperse itself. So the number of countries represented every year is different -- next year it might be double the number of countries, or it might be half. I'm more concerned about our international applicants' communication skills, and how well they write and speak in English. They're going to need to do a lot of it once they're here. Q: Chicago GSB's application deadlines for the Class of 2002 fall on November 5th, January 7th, and March 10th. How are the GSB's applications shaping up so far this year? Does Chicago expect to receive as many applications as it did in 1999? A: My staff is telling me that it looks pretty close to what we had [at this time] last year. But they don't have an exact count. We're not really sure because not everything is in the computer system. It takes about three weeks to get all of the downloaded applications and Web applications [into the computer system]. After that, we'll know what we have, and we'll send out [first round] responses during the first two weeks of January. Q: When are the majority of Chicago's MBA applications submitted? A: About half of the people who apply to Chicago apply in the second round. Q: Many admissions directors encourage applicants to submit their forms sooner than later, suggesting that the earlier an application arrives, the better a candidate's chances for acceptance. What is the acceptance rate for Chicago's first round applicants? Is it different than the acceptance rate for the school's third round applicants? A: I don't actually know what the different rates are for each deadline. But for the first two deadlines, applicants are pretty much treated the same way. At that time, we have all of our seats available, and no one has yet committed to the school. We have a deposit deadline at the end of April. Until that point, we don't know who is matriculating and paying a deposit, or who is saving their place in class and that type of thing. The only advantage of applying earlier is that you get a decision earlier. But also, if you're placed on the wait list, you have more opportunities to be reviewed throughout the process. The third deadline becomes more of a numbers game. By then, we know how many seats have been taken and how many seats are left. So by the last deadline, your chance is diminished quite a bit. Q: Chicago GSB gives its applicants the ability to choose between applying to the school electronically, using Embark.com or Multi-App, or via snail mail by downloading and completing the traditional paper application. What has the response been to the school's online application options? A: It's been great. The number of people using them has almost more than doubled from 1998 to 1999. That's the direction people are taking. [Filling out the application electronically, via the Web] is very easy for them to do from their hotel rooms or wherever they might be. A lot of people are downloading our application as well. [This] helps us out too because we've cut back on some data entry. Q: What factors in the GSB application carry the most weight? The GMAT? The recommendations? The personal statements? The academic record? A: There's not any one thing that's weighted more than the others, or any mathematical equation we use. It's a matter of having a whole and complete package. Presentation is also important. The application [should] show that the applicant really understands what it is that Chicago's all about. [Successful applications are those that] have been put together carefully, and that put everything out in the open for us to take a look at. There are a lot more people qualified for the program than we can accept, so it's a matter of choosing people who are more honest, who have really done their homework, understand what the program's about, and can express themselves articulately. The people who are not admitted generally are missing some things in a lot of different areas, not just one area. Q: How much of a role does work experience play in your overall evaluation? What is it that makes one person's professional background more flashy than another's? A: It's not how much work experience you have, but what you've accomplished during the period of time you've been in the work force. I've seen applications where people have only two or three years of experience but who have accomplished a lot more than other people in their same position in other companies, or in the same firm. Then, there are people out there with six, seven, eight years of experience basically doing the same job as they did seven or eight years before that. I prefer the people who've actually accomplished a lot, who are progressive and moving forward with their careers, knowing what it takes, with a lot of energy and creativity. And I'm not necessarily looking for evidence that an applicant has earned one promotion after another. I'm more attuned to the amount of responsibility the candidate was taken on over the period of time [that he or she has been in the work force]. It says a lot about the trust a company has in a candidate when it initially assigns the candidate to take on a few thousand dollars' worth of projects, then moves him or her up to tackle the million dollar projects, and then moves them up again to contribute on the multimillion dollar projects. Q: And if an applicant doesn't have that kind of work experience? A: Someone who's just graduating from school is going to be at a clear disadvantage when applying to Chicago GSB. However, there are people we will admit right out of undergraduate school. These are the people who have generally done things that are a little bit more nontraditional, for instance a lot of long-term internships. Or they've gone through a number of different internships where they've picked up a lot of experience along the way. In an MBA program, everybody needs to bring something with them because they're going to walk away with a lot more than what they came with. Part of the way the MBA program works is that there's a lot of group activity, a lot of interaction among students, and a lot of class discussion. You've got to be able throw something out there, not just sit back and take it all in. We have a number of people who are coming in without any full-time experience but who can bring a lot to the table with them anyway. Q: How do MBA candidates without a business background fare at Chicago? A: A little less than half of our students come in without a business degree. They come from the sciences, from the liberal arts, the humanities... from all over. And it doesn't really make a difference to us. We look at the curriculum that you chose, [not just the major]. Did you take things that were challenging? There are lots of challenging classes in the humanities, the liberal arts, and the sciences that can be just as challenging as business courses. About 27% of the Class of 2001 has a business background. Q: B-schools have recently been injecting a greater amount of entrepreneurial study into their programs. Is it considered a plus on an application if a candidate can demonstrate that he or she is somewhat of an entrepreneur? A: Well, it's one thing if you've been able to be successful, and another if you haven't. Some will actually [include their entrepreneurial experience in their application], some won't. We do have an entrepreneurial studies program within the school that is quite popular. In fact one of the most popular classes this year was E-business Strategies. It was so popular that we had to start taking attendance in class because there were so many people just wanting to sit in on it. Q: What kind of emphasis does Chicago put on an applicant's undergraduate degree and GPA? A: They're both important. The MBA program at Chicago is academically rigorous, so we're looking to see accomplishments in the academic background. And some of it will be based on where the applicant went to school and the program they undertook there. But we also look at what applicants took advantage of while they were in undergrad. Did they take all the lower level, easy courses just to get the degree? Or did they take some difficult courses that they maybe didn't do quite as well in but were really [challenged by]? Was the applicant active in the community, or part of student clubs or teams or things like that? We're looking at that whole experience. Q: How can international applicants show off their undergraduate careers, bearing in mind that an international university might calculate GPA differently? A: We look at them in context to what country their education was done in and what their educational system is in that country. My staff and I have been doing this for quite some time, and we've seen a lot of transcripts from all over the world. I've been to a lot of these countries to talk to different universities about their grading systems and how it all works, so we have a pretty good understanding. What's represented in our grade point averages on surveys are the people who report to us on a four point scale. We don't include the other group of applicants who have been educated using grading systems that are not convertible [to the four point scale]. But we look at how their particular education stands within the system that they came from. Q: Let's talk a bit about that great equalizing criterion known as the GMAT exam. Now that the GMAT CAT is available, MBA applicants can retake the exam on a number of occasions. Does the average accepted candidate take the GMAT once, twice, or three times? (Editor's note: GMAC only reports the last three test scores to B-schools.) A: If someone takes a test more than one time, we look at the highest total score and the sub scores associated with it (i.e. the quantitative, verbal, and AWA sections taken independently). And when we're doing our admission review, we only get one set of scores on a summary page. That way candidates don't have to think, 'Oh my gosh, I've taken [the GMAT CAT] three times and no one else has.' What I have seen, due to the price of the exam getting higher and a lot of pressure on students to do well, is that people are taking it fewer times. From what we've seen on some of the reports and what prospective students are putting down in their applications, the applicants are preparing better for the exam, and they're only taking it once or twice. I remember years ago people taking it five, six, and seven times. When [the GMAT] was less expensive, it was easier to try the exam to see what the test is like, and then vow to study for it later. Now, people look at [the GMAT-CAT] understanding how it works and knowing they need to prepare for it well before they ever step foot in a testing center. Q: What do you consider a good GMAT score? And what do you consider a subpar score that an applicant should improve upon? A: We have such a range of scores. The majority of students are in the six and seven hundreds for the most part. There's a self-selection process, where people look at our profile and they choose not to apply if they feel that their score seems to not be in line with our profile. But we don't have a cut-off score. There's no specific number that [indicates] that an applicant should take [the GMAT] again. If you took the exam and you really don't think you did the best you possibly could, or that you didn't feel prepared for it, take it again. If you're in the two or three hundreds, those are some pretty low scores with some very low percentiles. Our applicant pool looks like our profile, and with the average being 690, you're in a pretty poor area [with a 300]. But [the GMAT score] won't be the factor that keeps an applicant [off of the class roster]. In the past, we've admitted people with scores in the 400s. And on occasion, an applicant with a GMAT score of a three hundred-something gets into the program. It depends on how everything else gets put together, and sometimes in person, a candidate just "wows" us so much that we disregard his or her low GMAT score. That's why you always see such a wide range in GMAT scores at [Chicago GSB], because it's not just one thing [that carries the most weight in the application]. If it was, we'd publish [the cut off GMAT score] so that people below a certain number wouldn't even have to apply. Q: Carol, you review all of the school's applications. In the instances when two applicants are in a dead heat, what tends to be the tie breaker? A: It usually tends to be the way people present themselves in their essays, or during their interviews, if they've done one. [Whether they can articulate] how much they really understand what it is they're about to undertake, and how the Chicago MBA is going to change their lives... Those are the tie breakers. Q: The essays represent one way for applicants to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack. They are not every applicant's strong point, however. Where do applicants tend to go wrong on the essays? A: The applicants write them canned for a lot of schools -- they just plug in a school name. And some people, with all the search and replaces [available on a word processing program], actually forget to search and replace and leave the wrong school name in there. Those essays were written very generically. Then there really isn't any depth in [expressing] what makes that school different and special. The other mistake I frequently come across is that they don't proofread things, and leave basic grammar and spelling errors. Those are probably the two things that hurt people the most. Q: What's the penalty if an applicant with a significant amount of work experience, a good GMAT score, and an otherwise glowing application, mistakenly leaves the "University of Virginia" in place of "Chicago" in one of his essays? A: It could mean their spot at Chicago. Part of the application process is knowing how [the MBA admission process] works and putting together a package very carefully and understanding what you're sending off to each school. And if a person doesn't do that, you have to wonder, is their heart really in it? [That scenario] also makes you wonder if the applicant really wants to go to Chicago. It usually raises a lot more red flags and question marks for me when I come across things like that. Q: Chicago allows its applicants to either interview on campus with an admissions official or second-year student, or off-campus, with an alum. Are all interviews weighted equally? A: They're looked at exactly the same way. We actually train everybody who does our interviewing. There's a form for them to fill out to provide us with feedback, so we get the same kind of information from everyone. And I value the opinions of the second-year students as well as the alumni. They both know what the school is all about. They know the students they went or are going to class with. And they can certainly decide whether an interviewee would be someone they'd want to be in a group project or class with, or someone they'd like to hang out with socially. For a candidate, if you come to campus and do [an interview] with a second-year student, you have an opportunity then to also be on campus and to go sit in on classes. Maybe you can even do something socially with the students who are on campus. With an alumnus, the advantage is knowing where your career can go after you leave. There's a different level of information that can be gathered from those to people. From an admissions perspective, it doesn't matter who's doing the interviewing. If we didn't trust somebody's opinion we wouldn't have them interviewing. Q: What are some of the ways a candidate can show an interviewer that he or she is serious about attending Chicago in the fall? A: We assume [candidates will attend interviews in] business attire, although I know that we've had some alumni, because of time constraints, tell some people to make it business casual so that they're not uncomfortable. But for most people and the people who come to campus, it's business attire. The way a candidate can make themselves shine is [to show] they've done their homework, that they understand what Chicago's all about, that they have some feeling for the things that the school offers that are not in the brochure, and that they can talk about them intelligently. Where a lot of people make mistakes in interviews is that they rattle off the brochure. We've all seen [the brochure], sometimes we've written it. For people to rattle those things off isn't impressive. But the person who comes very well prepared and understands what Chicago is all about and [knows] what they want to get out of the program, [that person] can really have a great exchange of information with their interviewer. Q: What happens if an applicant misses the interview? A: It's not a good thing. If there's a reason that he or she missed it that was beyond their control and someone contacts the interviewer or the office immediately to let them know what happened, then there's not much to do about it. We put whatever notes or information that we have about the candidate into his or her file. But the person who just kind of forgets about it or blows it off, that doesn't look very good at all. Q: Are follow up thank you notes a necessity? A: No, they're not a necessity. We conduct about 4,800 interviews, so we don't necessarily need 4,800 pieces of paper floating around the office. But if you have a particularly good interview it might be a nice gesture to say you appreciated it. And any paper that we get in our office goes into the applicant's file. So, [a really nice thank you card] doesn't sit on someone's desk on full display, it goes back in the file. Q: What do you and your staff hope to learn about an MBA applicant in a recommendation? Who does the school want to hear from: a supervisor, a business partner, a family friend who happens to be a prominent state senator? A: What we really want is someone's objective opinion about what kind of leadership skills the applicant has demonstrated, what kind of management potential he or she has, how the person interacts with other people, how they communicate... those types of things. The person writing the recommendation should be someone who knows the applicant well, has worked with them or supervised them, and can access their skills and management potential. The recommender does not need [to know the candidate] academically because we can get that [perspective] from academic records and GMAT scores. So it's better to choose a recommender who you've worked with on a daily basis rather than that senator who has some relation back to your alma mater. We're frequently asked whether applicants should seek out an alumnus from the program to write a recommendation. We always say, 'not, unless you work with them.' An alumnus you just find on the street certainly isn't going to put the kind of detail that we want into a recommendation. We want to know how the applicant responds to situations, communicates, how well he or she works with others, and what kind of progression they've made in their job. Is the applicant better than the average person that's out there in the company? Has the applicant assumed more responsibility? Q: Let's say that a recommendation reads something to the effect of: "John is great. He's received two promotions since he started here three years ago. And though he's made some mistakes, here and there, he's learned from them." Does Chicago frown upon that kind of mixed progress report? Does the school prefer applicants with unblemished records? A: Well, you kind of have to wonder what's really going on when you read a recommendation that is so glowing that it sounds like an applicant is just walking on water. Nobody is perfect out there, and people do make mistakes and hopefully have learned from them. Now if the recommendation comes in and says that the applicant has made some mistakes and hasn't learned anything from them, then we have a problem. [But mistakes] show us that the applicant is human. It's okay, we've all made our mistakes. And if the applicant has learned something from his mistakes and has become a better person for it, then all is well and good. Those kinds of recommendations almost sound more real to me when we're reading applications than the ones that just go on and on and on about how wonderful people are. Q: And "real" is good? A: Everybody "looks" good. Everybody wants a recommendation to be glowing. It's nice to read one that's actually from the heart. One that just says 'hey, this is who this person is.' It's about getting at the real person behind all the paper. Q: Chicago hosts about 70 forums worldwide. Is it important for prospective students to attend the receptions? Do you keep track of forum attendance to gauge applicants' interest in Chicago's MBA program? A: We do keep track of it, but it [has no bearing on our decisions]. After everything is done and once the class is seated, then we go back to see how many [people from the enrolled class] actually came to campus or interviewed or went to one of our receptions. The primary reason for doing the receptions is so people have someone they can talk to face to face about the questions they have when they're going through this process ... deciding if they want to apply. The receptions also give us a chance to tell applicants about new things, and about what's going on at the school. We invite alumni to all of our receptions, and it's a great place for prospective students to talk to people who have been through the program and find out what Chicago is all about. Q: Do the majority of the members in Chicago's seated classes attend receptions? A: Just about everyone who comes to the school has interacted with us in some way, shape, or form. They have either interviewed, or they've been at a reception, or they've come to the weekends that we host at the school. We feel that the things we're doing are working quite well. Q: Earlier in our conversation, you mentioned Chicago GSB's wait list. What are applicants' chances of making it off that list and onto another: the class roster? A: I don't have a number for that because there are some people who contact us immediately to say that they don't want to be on the wait list. There's some natural thinning out of the wait list. But I'd probably say that about 20% are accepted from it. It's not hopeless, that's for sure. Q: What can wait listed applicants do to help their cause? A: The first thing they should do is not panic. The second thing they should do is read over what we sent to them. We send a sheet to wait listed applicants that contains answers to the typical questions [that wait listed applicants tend to have]. Wait listed candidates also have an opportunity to contact our office to get some feedback on their applications. One of my staff will get back to the applicant within a week and tell them what things are lacking in their application and how to make it stronger. Sometimes it's as simple as just stating how strongly they might want to come to the school, or maybe sending in another recommendation. We'd rather help wait listed folks address the things that we feel are deficient than have them go out and blindly send stuff to us without knowing what it is that we're looking for. Q: What overriding message do you have for GSB aspirants? A: Be yourself. I don't know how many times people send us essays or go into interviews and try to tell us what they think we want to hear. We've done this for quite some time and we see a lot of applications. 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